Brexit?

[The Comedian]

No, you're adamant that this trade deal with India is going to bring un gold riches to the UK, how's that likes?

It's not that it's anything new? What they going to flog us, what we gonna flog them?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not adamant about anything. Merely commenting on the topic of your post but I'd suggest if we are leaving the EU and single market then increasing ties with India (pop 1.2 billion) should be considered a smart move.

 

Don't take my word for it though, you're precious EU have been trying to do exactly that since 2007.

 

The riches indeed.

 

[Space Mackerel]

I'm not adamant about anything. Merely commenting on the topic of your post but I'd suggest if we are leaving the EU and single market then increasing ties with India (pop 1.2 billion) should be considered a smart move.

 

Don't take my word for it though, you're precious EU have been trying to do exactly that since 2007.

 

The riches indeed.

 

Why leave the worlds biggest free trading block, then spend billions and set up more of the same?

 

Have you thought this out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[The Comedian]

Why leave the worlds biggest free trading block, then spend billions and set up more of the same?

 

Have you thought this out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Makes sense for the government to do so after the vote went with Leave. Clearly.

 

[JamboX2]

Alex Salmond, throughout his long and political life has done 100 times more to realise the way Westminster has failed the working class in Scotland than 60 years of Labour nonsense.

 

Hence why most Labour voters have defected to the SNP now.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The man who attended St Andrews Uni, was a bank economist and has spent his whole political life chasing opinion polls - anti-EU, then pro-EU, anti-Sterling, pro-Sterling, anti-euro, pro-euro, dodgy on repeal of section 28 because of his financial backer Souttar, promised to abolish student debt and didn't. The man who went from the Royal Bank to socialist revolutionary to centrist in a 20 ofd year period. Him?

 

In 60 years Labour held office from 1945-51, 64-70, 74-79 and 97-2010. In that time we've had an expansion of welfare, employment rights enshrined, the NHS, education opened up to the many, slum clearances, equal pay, Human Rights Act, Devolution, Equality Act, pension credits, child credits, sure start, schools for the future, free tuition in Scotland and a lot more... but they didn't do anything and Salmond saved us.

 

Salmond won because Labour in Scotland, despite its efforts in office, became tired, complacent and stale. Unresponsive and stopped listening at a local level. It was the first in a now long line of major centre left party's in Europe and America which, when the crash came and the goods times were rolling before that became stuck in an echo chamber of its self.

 

Salmond is no Trump or Farage. I grant you he is smarter, kinder and a better man than that. But at the heart of all three's campaigns is populism. Pure populism. Say anything to win and win at any cost. The peoples of the developed world are justifiably angry at tbe way their lives have regressed slowly in terms of living standards and job security these past 10 years and are giving the established big parties and institutions a bloody nose. If independence had been due this year it would've won imo. Had Scottish nationalism been a go nowhere force, say 6 seats in Holyrood, Brexit would have gained a much stronger foothold in Scotland because both seek to blame other places and people for the ills on their street.

 

All personal opinion based on what I've seen these past few years, but the fact is that there are positive arguments for Brexit, or "draining the swamp" of DC and for Independence. Sadly those stronger arguments are drowned out by the white noise of populist anger.

 

Independence will be achieved through understanding the fears of No voters and building a broad, inclusive and open alliance of people who have purpose beyond "wur Scots". If Independence is to happen we also need to see the boldness it can offer by bold governance and use of power Scotland already has. The timidity and grandstanding at present is populism and more flag waving-esque finger pointing than purposeful and meaningful progress.

[Space Mackerel]

The man who attended St Andrews Uni, was a bank economist and has spent his whole political life chasing opinion polls - anti-EU, then pro-EU, anti-Sterling, pro-Sterling, anti-euro, pro-euro, dodgy on repeal of section 28 because of his financial backer Souttar, promised to abolish student debt and didn't. The man who went from the Royal Bank to socialist revolutionary to centrist in a 20 ofd year period. Him?

 

In 60 years Labour held office from 1945-51, 64-70, 74-79 and 97-2010. In that time we've had an expansion of welfare, employment rights enshrined, the NHS, education opened up to the many, slum clearances, equal pay, Human Rights Act, Devolution, Equality Act, pension credits, child credits, sure start, schools for the future, free tuition in Scotland and a lot more... but they didn't do anything and Salmond saved us.

 

Salmond won because Labour in Scotland, despite its efforts in office, became tired, complacent and stale. Unresponsive and stopped listening at a local level. It was the first in a now long line of major centre left party's in Europe and America which, when the crash came and the goods times were rolling before that became stuck in an echo chamber of its self.

 

Salmond is no Trump or Farage. I grant you he is smarter, kinder and a better man than that. But at the heart of all three's campaigns is populism. Pure populism. Say anything to win and win at any cost. The peoples of the developed world are justifiably angry at tbe way their lives have regressed slowly in terms of living standards and job security these past 10 years and are giving the established big parties and institutions a bloody nose. If independence had been due this year it would've won imo. Had Scottish nationalism been a go nowhere force, say 6 seats in Holyrood, Brexit would have gained a much stronger foothold in Scotland because both seek to blame other places and people for the ills on their street.

 

All personal opinion based on what I've seen these past few years, but the fact is that there are positive arguments for Brexit, or "draining the swamp" of DC and for Independence. Sadly those stronger arguments are drowned out by the white noise of populist anger.

 

Independence will be achieved through understanding the fears of No voters and building a broad, inclusive and open alliance of people who have purpose beyond "wur Scots". If Independence is to happen we also need to see the boldness it can offer by bold governance and use of power Scotland already has. The timidity and grandstanding at present is populism and more flag waving-esque finger pointing than purposeful and meaningful progress.

Imagine criticising a a party which has a bigger percentage of the Scottish vote than Labour, New Labour, Scottish Labour has ever had.

Says a lot.

They had their chance, they turned to the Torys and it was goodnight.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Space Mackerel]

The man who attended St Andrews Uni, was a bank economist and has spent his whole political life chasing opinion polls - anti-EU, then pro-EU, anti-Sterling, pro-Sterling, anti-euro, pro-euro, dodgy on repeal of section 28 because of his financial backer Souttar, promised to abolish student debt and didn't. The man who went from the Royal Bank to socialist revolutionary to centrist in a 20 ofd year period. Him?

 

In 60 years Labour held office from 1945-51, 64-70, 74-79 and 97-2010. In that time we've had an expansion of welfare, employment rights enshrined, the NHS, education opened up to the many, slum clearances, equal pay, Human Rights Act, Devolution, Equality Act, pension credits, child credits, sure start, schools for the future, free tuition in Scotland and a lot more... but they didn't do anything and Salmond saved us.

 

Salmond won because Labour in Scotland, despite its efforts in office, became tired, complacent and stale. Unresponsive and stopped listening at a local level. It was the first in a now long line of major centre left party's in Europe and America which, when the crash came and the goods times were rolling before that became stuck in an echo chamber of its self.

 

Salmond is no Trump or Farage. I grant you he is smarter, kinder and a better man than that. But at the heart of all three's campaigns is populism. Pure populism. Say anything to win and win at any cost. The peoples of the developed world are justifiably angry at tbe way their lives have regressed slowly in terms of living standards and job security these past 10 years and are giving the established big parties and institutions a bloody nose. If independence had been due this year it would've won imo. Had Scottish nationalism been a go nowhere force, say 6 seats in Holyrood, Brexit would have gained a much stronger foothold in Scotland because both seek to blame other places and people for the ills on their street.

 

All personal opinion based on what I've seen these past few years, but the fact is that there are positive arguments for Brexit, or "draining the swamp" of DC and for Independence. Sadly those stronger arguments are drowned out by the white noise of populist anger.

 

Independence will be achieved through understanding the fears of No voters and building a broad, inclusive and open alliance of people who have purpose beyond "wur Scots". If Independence is to happen we also need to see the boldness it can offer by bold governance and use of power Scotland already has. The timidity and grandstanding at present is populism and more flag waving-esque finger pointing than purposeful and meaningful progress.

And independence will be achieved once a few die hard old Tory voters pass on, believe me, I've met loads through my work. That 1960's Tory Scotland dies off then it's all systems go.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

And independence will be achieved once a few die hard old Tory voters pass on, believe me, I've met loads through my work. That 1960's Tory Scotland dies off then it's all systems go.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And with that post you're on a par with yelling "BUILD THE WALL!"

 

You will get nowhere with logic like that because pensioners born in 1940 or 1980 will all fear the security of their pensions.

[Space Mackerel]

And with that post you're on a par with yelling "BUILD THE WALL!"

 

You will get nowhere with logic like that because pensioners born in 1940 or 1980 will all fear the security of their pensions.

Pensioners born in 1980?

 

I was born before that and I'm nowhere near retiring yet.

 

Jeez, put down the intellectual books and live in the real world sunshine.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

Imagine criticising a a party which has a bigger percentage of the Scottish vote than Labour, New Labour, Scottish Labour has ever had.

Says a lot.

They had their chance, they turned to the Torys and it was goodnight.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Again you've not engaged with my post at all or offered more than LabourBad. You fail to explain how Salmond is principled when he has flip flopped on every major issue he has ever faced in his political life? Or on his chasing the money men - Murdoch, Trump, Souttar, Connery. Nor how he is a revolutionary when he attended the Oxbridge of Scotland and worked as a RBS oil economist. Nor on how populist nationalism in Scotland, albeit civic, differs in tone or its offering of a solution to housing crises, wage stagnation and living standard slumps by saying "X" is holding us back, we need independence.

 

At least Sillars and MacDonald wanted independence to be Independent Socialist Scotland like 60s Norway. Salmond and now Sturgeon seem to want it to be independent with no corresponding vision of the country. Fairness, inclusivity and social justice are buzzwords without a vision for them. Where's the purpose?

 

It's populism. Vacuous nationalist populism

[Space Mackerel]

Again you've not engaged with my post at all or offered more than LabourBad. You fail to explain how Salmond is principled when he has flip flopped on every major issue he has ever faced in his political life? Or on his chasing the money men - Murdoch, Trump, Souttar, Connery. Nor how he is a revolutionary when he attended the Oxbridge of Scotland and worked as a RBS oil economist. Nor on how populist nationalism in Scotland, albeit civic, differs in tone or its offering of a solution to housing crises, wage stagnation and living standard slumps by saying "X" is holding us back, we need independence.

 

At least Sillars and MacDonald wanted independence to be Independent Socialist Scotland like 60s Norway. Salmond and now Sturgeon seem to want it to be independent with no corresponding vision of the country. Fairness, inclusivity and social justice are buzzwords without a vision for them. Where's the purpose?

 

It's populism. Vacuous nationalist populism

Awfully nice to summarise the independence movement up in 1 paragraph.

 

10/10

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

Pensioners born in 1980?

 

I was born before that and I'm nowhere near retiring yet.

 

Jeez, put down the intellectual books and live in the real world sunshine.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Point being a future pensioner who was born in 1980 will be as protective of his or her position as the ones who voted No. Rather than hoping for a cold winter tell them how their lives will be better by what you are wanting to see happen.

 

Or, "Build a Wall" and lose.

 

Up to you.

[Space Mackerel]

Point being a future pensioner who was born in 1980 will be as protective of his or her position as the ones who voted No. Rather than hoping for a cold winter tell them how their lives will be better by what you are wanting to see happen.

 

Or, "Build a Wall" and lose.

 

Up to you.

You need to get out more and meet people around the country.

Books are good, they give you a basis for understanding, I guess you need to move out into the real world though. That's my thoughts. Live a little.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

Awfully nice to summarise the independence movement up in 1 paragraph.

 

10/10

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm summing up the SNP/National type stuff. Populist nonsense. Not necessarily the fringe of the movement where there is a debate about what kind of a nation you would want to live in. And no, that's not a debate that can or should be left till it happens.

 

Catalonia has a much more nuanced political understanding of independence because rather than onevall encompassing party there are several who want independence offering different visions of that future. Scotland lacks that more grown up debate meaning independence politically is failing to test itself as a movement where as with three main unionist rivals they regularly have tested and fought one another for voters who want a Scotland in the UK.

[Space Mackerel]

I'm summing up the SNP/National type stuff. Populist nonsense. Not necessarily the fringe of the movement where there is a debate about what kind of a nation you would want to live in. And no, that's not a debate that can or should be left till it happens.

 

Catalonia has a much more nuanced political understanding of independence because rather than onevall encompassing party there are several who want independence offering different visions of that future. Scotland lacks that more grown up debate meaning independence politically is failing to test itself as a movement where as with three main unionist rivals they regularly have tested and fought one another for voters who want a Scotland in the UK.

I'm failing to understand how you can sum up the independence movement when you're not part of it?

 

Does that mean I can sum up the Hibs support feelings right now?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JamboX2]

You need to get out more and meet people around the country.

Books are good, they give you a basis for understanding, I guess you need to move out into the real world though. That's my thoughts. Live a little.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I do. From people I talk to who didn't vote yes that's what needs to happen. Rather than bang on about democratic deficits, "Westmonster", Mhairi Black and "wait till pensioners die" they want advocates of independence to explain how that will help them pay bills, their kids get jobs, their schools run, their hospitals be paid for and their trains run on time.

 

You know real world things. Not, we'll default on the debt. But more, we will do x, y and z with independence, which we cant do now, to make your life better.

 

Or just keep telling yourself you need a cold winter and it'll be Alba Bu Grath on here rather than confront people's concerns.

 

Independence as a movement needs to allow itself to be tested by allowing debate within and to accept criticism from outside. Because frankly it's a means to solving things not a solution in itself.

 

But keep yelling "Build the wall".

[JamboX2]

I'm failing to understand how you can sum up the independence movement when you're not part of it?

 

Does that mean I can sum up the Hibs support feelings right now?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I voted Yes. My experiences of the Yes Campaign, many Yes supporters and the SNP was of a seige mentality rather than a movement interested in confronting reality.

 

I was for union, then Yes, now with Brexit i think it would be daft to plunge into indyref2 without measured consideration of the full extent of EU powers coming back - agriculture, fisheries, regional development and VAT - should come back to Scotland, NI, Wales, London and regional authorities in England over Whitehall.

 

Until that is resolved indyref2 is a pointless exercise. As once it happens people may like what they get from Brexit.

[Space Mackerel]

I voted Yes. My experiences of the Yes Campaign, many Yes supporters and the SNP was of a seige mentality rather than a movement interested in confronting reality.

 

I was for union, then Yes, now with Brexit i think it would be daft to plunge into indyref2 without measured consideration of the full extent of EU powers coming back - agriculture, fisheries, regional development and VAT - should come back to Scotland, NI, Wales, London and regional authorities in England over Whitehall.

 

Until that is resolved indyref2 is a pointless exercise. As once it happens people may like what they get from Brexit.

I think you get swept away in all this political turmoil that's going on, a wee bit excited about it all so to say.

Probably a good thing to stick to a long term life plan and go for it, stick to your guns and long term principles. Get drunk and shag about. Always worked for me [emoji106]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rudolf's Mate]

I think you get swept away in all this political turmoil that's going on, a wee bit excited about it all so to say.

Probably a good thing to stick to a long term life plan and go for it, stick to your guns and long term principles. Get drunk and shag about. Always worked for me [emoji106]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hiya pal... Hiya

[Irufushi]

just popped in to see what's up.

[luckyBatistuta]

just popped in to see what's up.

Not a lot bud, appears the games up the pole

[Boris]

I do. From people I talk to who didn't vote yes that's what needs to happen. Rather than bang on about democratic deficits, "Westmonster", Mhairi Black and "wait till pensioners die" they want advocates of independence to explain how that will help them pay bills, their kids get jobs, their schools run, their hospitals be paid for and their trains run on time.

You know real world things.

Can you tell me how right of centre UK politics is going do this?

[Boris]

I voted Yes. My experiences of the Yes Campaign, many Yes supporters and the SNP was of a seige mentality rather than a movement interested in confronting reality.

I was for union, then Yes, now with Brexit i think it would be daft to plunge into indyref2 without measured consideration of the full extent of EU powers coming back - agriculture, fisheries, regional development and VAT - should come back to Scotland, NI, Wales, London and regional authorities in England over Whitehall.

Until that is resolved indyref2 is a pointless exercise. As once it happens people may like what they get from Brexit.

Vat will not be devolved, and the English regions do not exist in that any devolved functions ceased in 2011.

[deesidejambo]

Can you tell me how right of centre UK politics is going do this?

Well Mussolini got the trains running on time.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I don't follow your logic to be honest.

 

Logic and that odd-ball are diametrically opposed.

[aussieh]

I'm not getting angry at you, you haven't got it in you to get me angry, I'm starting to feel sorry for you and embarrassed for you too, for the sake of what little credibility you have eleft on here and if nothing else, for your own self esteem go and do something else, think how ashamed of you your family would be if they read what you post.

Stockholm syndrome seems a right burden.

 

My condolences.

[deesidejambo]

Logic and that odd-ball are diametrically opposed.

Indeed. Hoping that pensioners will die is a mark of the man.

 

And it's also stupid. The population demographic is aging, more and more pensioners will appear and with age comes wisdom and reluctance to change, along with concern over pension security. I.e.the No vote will increase, not decrease.

 

So hoping pensioners will soon die is not only scum behaviour it is also misguided.

[aussieh]

Indeed. Hoping that pensioners will die is a mark of the man.

 

And it's also stupid. The population demographic is aging, more and more pensioners will appear and with age comes wisdom and reluctance to change, along with concern over pension security. I.e.the No vote will increase, not decrease.

 

So hoping pensioners will soon die is not only scum behaviour it is also misguided.

Wave goodbye to your beloved zero hours, dee.

 

Uber drivers have fecked it for you.

[aussieh]

Oh, haha

 

Giruy Nae luck

[jack D and coke]

I Get drunk[emoji106]

FTFY [emoji1]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[deesidejambo]

Wave goodbye to your beloved zero hours, dee.

 

Uber drivers have fecked it for you.

I'm not a taxi driver so wrong again.

[JamboX2]

Vat will not be devolved, and the English regions do not exist in that any devolved functions ceased in 2011.

VAT could be devolved as at present the EU has a big say in this area. The structure of devolution would suggest that areas of EU competency woukd be automatically devolved.

 

And there is regional devolution in England: Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Midlands and Bristol all opted for Mayoral systems. A form of regional devolution.

 

The regional development boards, a remnant from Prescott's failed Regional Authorities never had the same level of power or scope and were more just council groupings.

[JamboX2]

Can you tell me how right of centre UK politics is going do this?

Where's the policies from Scottish parties to fix these issues? Where is the substantive evidence of a majorly different political attitude from the Scottish electorate in attitude surveys?

 

Like it or not, the centre of Scottish politics is still very close to the UK wide electorate.

 

So can you tell me where the Scottish parties will do this?

 

Your point is as I've previously stated based on the populist "fairer, more inclusive, socially just Scotland" argument which is open to debate based on the laws passed by our Parliament and Government.

[JamboX2]

Can you tell me how right of centre UK politics is going do this?

Equally, you've missed the point of that. I never said the UK does that better. I pointed out the Yes-movement and SNP lines on why Yes are lazy and not grounded in peoples everyday lives.

[Boris]

VAT could be devolved as at present the EU has a big say in this area. The structure of devolution would suggest that areas of EU competency woukd be automatically devolved.

 

And there is regional devolution in England: Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Midlands and Bristol all opted for Mayoral systems. A form of regional devolution.

 

The regional development boards, a remnant from Prescott's failed Regional Authorities never had the same level of power or scope and were more just council groupings.

COULD.

 

Not will, but could.

 

Apologies, but lots of things COULD happen post Brexit, but probably won't. You obviously have faith in a system that is corrupted and that somehow it will magically be fixed.

 

Regards mayoral systems, you think they will get powers akin to devolved nations and London? Really???

[Boris]

Equally, you've missed the point of that. I never said the UK does that better. I pointed out the Yes-movement and SNP lines on why Yes are lazy and not grounded in peoples everyday lives.

And as such people voted no, as you said. So my point is what does the current system give us? An independent Scotland would at least reset the political landscape, would have a more democratic representative electoral system, would be able to define politics on our level, rather than around middle England marginals.

 

In other words, we can make up our own minds.

[Boris]

Where's the policies from Scottish parties to fix these issues? Where is the substantive evidence of a majorly different political attitude from the Scottish electorate in attitude surveys?

 

Like it or not, the centre of Scottish politics is still very close to the UK wide electorate.

 

So can you tell me where the Scottish parties will do this?

 

Your point is as I've previously stated based on the populist "fairer, more inclusive, socially just Scotland" argument which is open to debate based on the laws passed by our Parliament and Government.

Attitudinal studies can tell you so much. So can the ballot box. If so in step with ruk, explain the EU vote? Explain Snp dominance at Holyrood and Westminster elections.

[i8hibsh]

Wanting old people to die - The Harold Shipman of politics. An utterly vile vile people these Nats.

[i8hibsh]

If someone could have wiped out Birmingham and killed every last person in the city the Brexit outcome would've been different. **** You Birmingham!! How dare you have a vote like me.

[Nookie Bear]

And independence will be achieved once a few die hard old Tory voters pass on, believe me, I've met loads through my work. That 1960's Tory Scotland dies off then it's all systems go.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Imagine if one of our resident Tories said "...once a few die hard Nationalists voters pass on...", they would have been (rightly) hammered for being cold-hearted fascists.

 

But the death of pensioners appears to be an actual game plan of the Nats.

 

(So that's elderly Conservatives and the white working classes you despise. Whae's like us!)

[Francis Albert]

Unfortunately for the SNP master plan, old people dying are replaced by new old people, in larger numbers.

[Cade]

Carlo Calenda, an Italian economics minister, said it was insulting that Johnson had told him during a recent meeting that Italy would grant Britain access to the EU?s single market ?because you don?t want to lose prosecco exports?.

?He basically said: ?I don?t want free movement of people but I want the single market,?? he told Bloomberg. ?I said: ?No way.? He said: ?You?ll sell less prosecco.? I said: ?OK, you?ll sell less fish and chips, but I?ll sell less prosecco to one country and you?ll sell less to 27 countries.? Putting things on this level is a bit insulting.?

Dutch finance minister and Eurogroup president, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said Johnson?s aims of leaving the customs union at the same time as securing immigration controls and maintaining access to the single market were not achievable.

Dijsselbloem told the BBC?s Newsnight: ?I think he?s offering to the British people options that are really not available. For example, to say we could be inside the internal market but be outside the customs union, this is impossible, it just doesn?t exist. The opposite does exist. We have a customs union with Turkey but Turkey is not part of the internal market.

?He?s saying things that are intellectually impossible, politically unavailable, so I think he?s not offering the British people a fair view of what is available and what can be achieved in these negotiations.?

 

[jake]

Carlo Calenda, an Italian economics minister, said it was insulting that Johnson had told him during a recent meeting that Italy would grant Britain access to the EU?s single market ?because you don?t want to lose prosecco exports?.

?He basically said: ?I don?t want free movement of people but I want the single market,?? he told Bloomberg. ?I said: ?No way.? He said: ?You?ll sell less prosecco.? I said: ?OK, you?ll sell less fish and chips, but I?ll sell less prosecco to one country and you?ll sell less to 27 countries.? Putting things on this level is a bit insulting.?

Dutch finance minister and Eurogroup president, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said Johnson?s aims of leaving the customs union at the same time as securing immigration controls and maintaining access to the single market were not achievable.

Dijsselbloem told the BBC?s Newsnight: ?I think he?s offering to the British people options that are really not available. For example, to say we could be inside the internal market but be outside the customs union, this is impossible, it just doesn?t exist. The opposite does exist. We have a customs union with Turkey but Turkey is not part of the internal market.

?He?s saying things that are intellectually impossible, politically unavailable, so I think he?s not offering the British people a fair view of what is available and what can be achieved in these negotiations.?

 

Italian economics minister.

Hahahahaha.

 

Italy is a basket case economically.

Once it unravels it will make the greek mess look like a garden party.

[Boris]

Italian economics minister.

Hahahahaha.

 

Italy is a basket case economically.

Once it unravels it will make the greek mess look like a garden party.

 

Whereas Boris Johnson is the epitome of diplomacy!

 

[jake]

And as such people voted no, as you said. So my point is what does the current system give us? An independent Scotland would at least reset the political landscape, would have a more democratic representative electoral system, would be able to define politics on our level, rather than around middle England marginals.

 

In other words, we can make up our own minds.

 

I agree and the same goes for brexit.

The EU is finished.

Its global now and norway has a seat at that table alongside the EU for example.

 

Scotlands problem is not what currency they use (could be pound dollar or even yen).

Its that it would need to build reserves and this would require fiscal prudence.

Something the voter in this country may not be able to stomach.

[jake]

Whereas Boris Johnson is the epitome of diplomacy!

 

 

I didnt or have never used boris or farage as a template for my point of view.

 

Arguments are getting weaker for remain.

Resorting to headlines when further examined hold no substance.

 

Or the usual doris from doncaster racist bigot slurs.

 

Dont know if you read the article i posted.

Its an interesting read.

[Don Dan]

Latest Yougov poll saying 68% still want to exit the EU. 

[i8hibsh]

Latest Yougov poll saying 68% still want to exit the EU.

The only poll worth shit is that of the progressive left seemingly.

[Boris]

I didnt or have never used boris or farage as a template for my point of view.

 

 

Maybe you haven't, but if you are ridiculing the Italian Economics Minister for being responsible for Italian economics (is the nick of his country's economy solely down to him?), then you must accept that our Foreign Secretary is a complete arsehead.

[Boris]

Dont know if you read the article i posted.

Its an interesting read.

 

What page is it on?  Sorry, had a quick scan and couldn't find it!

 

I'll tell you where I am at...I voted to remain in the EU, whilst being aware that the EU in itself needs massive reform.  Leaving may well have been more palatable, were it not for the right wing approach that Leave has, thus I felt it better to remain.

 

When we do leave, I hope that the UK electorate realises that they have been mis-sold and vote accordingly to make our country better and more socially cohesive.  But, given our political system, this will no doubt take decades and by that time the whole place will be screwed.

[Space Mackerel]

Wanting old people to die - The Harold Shipman of politics. An utterly vile vile people these Nats.

I've never said that, I'm just saying natural progression will take its course and the Yes vote percentage will rise accordingly.