Cade Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Boris: "We want free market access but tough immigration controls" Rest of EU: "How many times, bawjaws? Nae danger are yous getting that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I'm not going to waste my time answering questions I have no idea what the answer is, especially when it's someone asking that really has no direct impact on. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk You really are having a nightmare on this thread, you have no answers on the questions I ask but you ask questions about the article 50 triggering time when the Pm has answered it!You say you won't waste time answering questions from those it does not directly impact despite not knowing a thing about me other than, at the time, I live in England but in the same post you try and make some witty retort, you really are making a comelette tit of yourself, you really need to stop posting on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I doubt whether most of the EU are bothered their arse yet. When May starts the clock she'll have 2 years to get a deal done and in the end will have to take what she gets. The negotiating position is absolutely awful whatever happens. I suppose a few car manufacturers will be having a quiet word with Merkel and so forth but she'll be more worried about her own future I'd imagine. Europe will be waiting to see what happens in Italy next month. Anyway - "the fundamentals of what we want are known" What are they? And who are "we"? More than a few car manufacturers will be lobbying the EU, the amount of stuff we buy from the EU is massive and wide ranging. Wines to Boilers, washing machines, fridges Etc. There will be a deal struck it won't be soft and it won't be hard unless the like of Juncker plays try's to hard ball but I suspect he won't be allowed too. Lots of posturing at the moment which is only to be expected. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 You really are having a nightmare on this thread, you have no answers on the questions I ask but you ask questions about the article 50 triggering time when the Pm has answered it! You say you won't waste time answering questions from those it does not directly impact despite not knowing a thing about me other than, at the time, I live in England but in the same post you try and make some witty retort, you really are making a comelette tit of yourself, you really need to stop posting on this thread. Don't get angry at me because the establishment are doing their level best to scupper Brexit whilst the SNP surge ahead up here. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 More than a few car manufacturers will be lobbying the EU, the amount of stuff we buy from the EU is massive and wide ranging. Wines to Boilers, washing machines, fridges Etc. There will be a deal struck it won't be soft and it won't be hard unless the like of Juncker plays try's to hard ball but I suspect he won't be allowed too. Lots of posturing at the moment which is only to be expected. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk We are the UK, that's the ones in the EU at present. The fundamentals were quote at PMQs today but Corbyn and the Remainers have their fingers in their ears singing La La La, only because it's against their agenda and narrative. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Don't get angry at me because the establishment are doing their level best to scupper Brexit whilst the SNP surge ahead up here. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I'm not getting angry at you, you haven't got it in you to get me angry, I'm starting to feel sorry for you and embarrassed for you too, for the sake of what little credibility you have eleft on here and if nothing else, for your own self esteem go and do something else, think how ashamed of you your family would be if they read what you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Boris: "We want free market access but tough immigration controls" Rest of EU: "How many times, bawjaws? Nae danger are yous getting that." Did I miss the start of negotiations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 More than a few car manufacturers will be lobbying the EU, the amount of stuff we buy from the EU is massive and wide ranging. Wines to Boilers, washing machines, fridges Etc. There will be a deal struck it won't be soft and it won't be hard unless the like of Juncker plays try's to hard ball but I suspect he won't be allowed too. Lots of posturing at the moment which is only to be expected. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You've just sort of answered your own question, the UK exports not a lot now, we need the EU more than they need us. Look at how much England imports compared to Scotland, NI and Wales. https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I'm not getting angry at you, you haven't got it in you to get me angry, I'm starting to feel sorry for you and embarrassed for you too, for the sake of what little credibility you have eleft on here and if nothing else, for your own self esteem go and do something else, think how ashamed of you your family would be if they read what you post. This adds nothing to the debate about Brexit. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 This adds nothing to the debate about Brexit. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Neither does anything you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 You've just sort of answered your own question, the UK exports not a lot now, we need the EU more than they need us. Look at how much England imports compared to Scotland, NI and Wales. https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk The EU (continental) countries won't want to hamper any exports to main land U.K. By imposing punitive tariffs on exports to the UK Which will get right up Juncker et al collective noses. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Neither does anything you post. You should look at the post I made about the trade figures by region, instead of wibbling about feeling sorry for me. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 That is the point of a negotiation, seeing what is in practice achievable between the two opening positions. No-one ever gets exactly what they want and I am sure most will be to some degree disappointed. What is depressing is that some of the losers want either not even to have a negotiation (by not triggering Article 50) or to make the UK's position in that negotiation completely untenable by publicly and firmly defining in advance the UK "bottom lines". Yes but who decides what concessions to give on one side in order to benefit on the other when there's no understanding of what people want? Maybe MP's should be canvasing their constituents on what they want in a bit more detail and then feeding into the process privately before negotiations begin. The problem is that nobody really trusts each other in politics which is why they want things in the open. (also I suspect so that they can score points on whether the deal was good or bad after its done). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 You should look at the post I made about the trade figures by region, instead of wibbling about feeling sorry for me. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Can't help but feel sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The EU (continental) countries won't want to hamper any exports to main land U.K. By imposing punitive tariffs on exports to the UK Which will get right up Juncker et al collective noses. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No international company wants tariffs, it creates red tape and increase costs, hence why this Brexit vote was a complete shambles from the start from their point of view. But dozy Doris from Dorchester disnae like immigrants. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Can't help but feel sorry for you. Light a candle for me Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Oh dear, remember these election expenses scandal, looks their back to haunt Maggie May. Whatever next? http://www.thecanary.co/2016/11/16/tory-election-fraud-bombshell-just-detonated-right-downing-street/ Theresa May?s joint Chief of Staff, Nick Timothy, has been dragged into the Conservative election expenses scandal. Channel 4 News has uncovered evidence that he ?provided assistance? to the Conservatives? controversial campaign to stop Nigel Farage winning a seat in South Thanet in the 2015 general election ? a campaign which is currently being investigated by Kent Police. Nick Timothy is Theresa May?s right-hand man. As the Prime Minister?s joint Chief of Staff, he has been variously described as ?Theresa?s brain?, ?May?s muse?, and ?the man who really runs Britain?. Now it turns out he was also part of a ?crack team? that the Conservatives sent to South Thanet to fight Nigel Farage in a controversial election campaign that has attracted the attention of both the Electoral Commission and Kent Police. On 15 November, Channel 4 News revealed that: Mr Timothy played a part in the controversial campaign in South Thanet, which is now under investigation by police. The hotel The Conservative Party has since confirmed (paywall) that Timothy did spend the 2015 general election campaign in the Royal Harbour Hotel in Ramsgate, part of the South Thanet constituency. Overall, the Conservatives spent around ?14,000 on the hotel during the election ? but that spending was declared as a national expense by the party, rather than as local spending by Conservative candidate Craig Mackinlay. Electoral Commission guidance says that any ?campaigning to promote a particular candidate or candidates in their local area? should be declared as local, candidate spending. Had Mackinlay declared ?14,000 of hotel costs as part of his campaign, he would have breached the legal limit of around ?15,000. The Conservative Party insists Timothy was working on the national campaign as a ?volunteer? for the party. And Mackinlay himself told Channel 4 News: I can confirm that nobody staying at the hotel was subject to my, or my agent?s, control or direction, any national Conservative Party staff based in the Royal Harbour Hotel were part of a national campaign team and were engaged in activities at the direction of Conservative Central Headquarters. The local campaign But now, Channel 4 News has unearthed ?scores? of pictures and documents suggesting that Timothy and other senior Conservative staff staying at the Royal Harbour Hotel were closely involved in Mackinlay?s campaign: But new evidence obtained by this programme, Channel 4 News, suggests key Conservatives did work on the local campaign and there are serious questions for the MP, Craig Mackinlay, on whether he fully disclosed everything he knew about the operation to the police. SNP MP Tommy Sheppard said of the revelations: There is a lot of evidence to suggest that these people were directly and centrally involved in Mr Mackinlay?s campaign and the expenses related to that ought to have been declared? I think it?s time to come clean. Mackinlay ? who has tried but failed to block a police investigation into election expenses in South Thanet ? ended up beating Farage by a mere 2,812 votes. His win helped to secure a slim majority for the Conservative government ? a majority that has allowed it to hold an EU referendum and to dictate the terms of Brexit. If that government was put there through electoral fraud, the questions raised for our democracy could not be more serious. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister T Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 How will this sit with the SNP? UK neucs bad, EU neucs good? Seems like an ironic, if not a scary brexit bargaining chip. https://www.rt.com/news/367183-germany-trump-nuclear-protection/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 How will this sit with the SNP? UK neucs bad, EU neucs good? Seems like an ironic, if not a scary brexit bargaining chip. https://www.rt.com/news/367183-germany-trump-nuclear-protection/ Ive said it before these results have shook the place up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The liberal case for 'Leave' ? Adam Smith Institute https://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The liberal case for 'Leave' ? Adam Smith Institute https://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/ Good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Did I miss the start of negotiations? Cameron had a bash at negotiating before the referendum (when he arguably had a few cards in his hand) and never got very far. I doubt the position has changed very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Boris: "We want free market access but tough immigration controls" Rest of EU: "How many times, bawjaws? Nae danger are yous getting that." Are there any other trade markets which stipulate free movement of people as a precursor to joining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Are there any other trade markets which stipulate free movement of people as a precursor to joining? If you were paying attention properly to the news, the Indian Government said this about 3 days ago if the UK wanted to strike an independent trade deal in the future. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 As someone who won't pretend to know all the pros and cons, and who doesn't trust politicians of any party to be 100% honest with the people, I find some things baffling. If this Brexit thingy is so easy and beneficial to the UK, why is it taking so long for the people who wanted it within the government to actually get on with it without the smoke and mirrors? We were told, before the referendum about all the wonderful benefits. We are still being told that a new, brighter dawn is round the corner. How long is it going to take to go round that corner? Why do we need to deal with these untrustworthy Johnny Foreigners in Europe, when we were told we didn't need them in the first place? Why is the Labour leader more interested in Brexit now than he seemed to be during the referendum? Who actually composed and approved that slogan about the ?350m for the NHS? The Brexit people don't seem to know? Could it be that none of our politicians, of any party, actually knows what they are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The liberal case for 'Leave' ? Adam Smith Institute https://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/ Interesting article. When not viewed through the prism of the black and white debate of the referendum its a good article. Reminds of a Newstatesman article during the referendum drawing parallels between Scotland and Slovakia. Put independence in a positive light as does the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Interesting article. When not viewed through the prism of the black and white debate of the referendum its a good article. Reminds of a Newstatesman article during the referendum drawing parallels between Scotland and Slovakia. Put independence in a positive light as does the above. Written by Roland, member of the Young Conservatives (Stormtrooper Division) I bet. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 If you were paying attention properly to the news, the Indian Government said this about 3 days ago if the UK wanted to strike an independent trade deal in the future. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk My reading is they aren't looking for free movement of people (akin to the EU) rather increasing immigration. They would still be vetted as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 My reading is they aren't looking for free movement of people (akin to the EU) rather increasing immigration. They would still be vetted as they are now. So they want people to settle in the UK and work as you see it, or feel free to come and go as they please? Are they not the same? Will dozy Doris from Dorchester be ok with this? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Written by Roland, member of the Young Conservatives (Stormtrooper Division) I bet. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk And yet as Angus of the Tartan Army Freedom Division would argue, much as Herr Roland has, the basis of both leaving the UK and EU is a break with a larger body with a bigger voice to exert your influence and power in a regional and global manner. In effect, the "liberal" reasoning of both is to exert control and influence. Brexit and Independence both want that. Are you saying that Norway and Iceland are less globalised or international in outlook than Belgium or Sweden by virtue of their lack of EU membership? Much like independence needn't be hijacked by kilt wearing, anti-Englishness, Brexit could be harnessed in a positive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 And yet as Angus of the Tartan Army Freedom Division would argue, much as Herr Roland has, the basis of both leaving the UK and EU is a break with a larger body with a bigger voice to exert your influence and power in a regional and global manner. In effect, the "liberal" reasoning of both is to exert control and influence. Brexit and Independence both want that. Are you saying that Norway and Iceland are less globalised or international in outlook than Belgium or Sweden by virtue of their lack of EU membership? Much like independence needn't be hijacked by kilt wearing, anti-Englishness, Brexit could be harnessed in a positive manner. One serious serious serious fundamental flaw in your argument relating Brexit with Scottish Independence and the benefits of leaving the EU meaning both the same. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 So they want people to settle in the UK and work as you see it, or feel free to come and go as they please? Are they not the same? Will dozy Doris from Dorchester be ok with this? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk No. One is controlled the other isn't. India want to increase the amount of skilled visas and student visas to, presumably, bring skills back that they require. That's fair enough IMO, it's a nation of over a billion so we should strike a deal. It's a win-win for Britain. Your post doesn't answer my genuine question alas. I think the answer is only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 One serious serious serious fundamental flaw in your argument relating Brexit with Scottish Independence and the benefits of leaving the EU meaning both the same. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk One used anti-immigration rhetoric the other didn't? Both were anti-establishment. Swap Brussels for Westminster and a lot of arguments were very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 No. One is controlled the other isn't. India want to increase the amount of skilled visas and student visas to, presumably, bring skills back that they require. That's fair enough IMO, it's a nation of over a billion so we should strike a deal. It's a win-win for Britain. Your post doesn't answer my genuine question alas. I think the answer is only one. By that logic then there's no skilled labour in Eastern Europe? Anyway, I always thought the UK had close ties with its former "colonies?" I believe snooker was invented over there? What are we going to flog the people in the slums anyway, a Dyson vacuum, made in Malaysia likes? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 By that logic then there's no skilled labour in Eastern Europe? Anyway, I always thought the UK had close ties with its former "colonies?" I believe snooker was invented over there? What are we going to flog the people in the slums anyway, a Dyson vacuum, made in Malaysia likes? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Wow ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 One used anti-immigration rhetoric the other didn't? Both were anti-establishment. Swap Brussels for Westminster and a lot of arguments were very similar. Anti establishment? Behave yourself please. Boris and Farage, anti establishment? ****s sakes. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Wow ! Thought you were out this thread and been over to help the working class in Greece? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Good article. Yes i liked the term about the EU being an old ideaology in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Cameron had a bash at negotiating before the referendum (when he arguably had a few cards in his hand) and never got very far. I doubt the position has changed very much. He didn't have any cards in his hand because no-one (Cameron himself included) thought that there was any chance of us leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 When did this "free movement of people" thing become a fundamental human right? Anyone explain why controlling immigration to the UK is fascist or ultra-right wing or racist but controlling immigration to the EU is fine, to the extent of sending gun boats into the Med to prevent it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 He didn't have any cards in his hand because no-one (Cameron himself included) thought that there was any chance of us leaving. I think he came back with a deal from Brussels saying something like any migrants (EU) would NOT be entitled to 5 years benefits etc But you didn't hear much about that on the MSM. No wonder they're telling us to bolt. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Merkel signals concessionsto brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Merkel signals concessionsto brexit. She probably feels sorry for the GB Government. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 By that logic then there's no skilled labour in Eastern Europe? Anyway, I always thought the UK had close ties with its former "colonies?" I believe snooker was invented over there? What are we going to flog the people in the slums anyway, a Dyson vacuum, made in Malaysia likes? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I don't follow your logic to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Anti establishment? Behave yourself please. Boris and Farage, anti establishment? ****s sakes. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk And Salmond as First Minister wasn't? They might not be, but they, like the Yes Campaign used populist language about elites at Westminster/Brussels and about democracy being best exercised locally to the people. If you cannot see the similarities then you don't see the commonality of nationalism in all its forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 And Salmond as First Minister wasn't? They might not be, but they, like the Yes Campaign used populist language about elites at Westminster/Brussels and about democracy being best exercised locally to the people. If you cannot see the similarities then you don't see the commonality of nationalism in all its forms. You're wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I don't follow your logic to be honest. Explain this trade deal with India then please. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 And Salmond as First Minister wasn't? They might not be, but they, like the Yes Campaign used populist language about elites at Westminster/Brussels and about democracy being best exercised locally to the people. If you cannot see the similarities then you don't see the commonality of nationalism in all its forms. Alex Salmond, throughout his long and political life has done 100 times more to realise the way Westminster has failed the working class in Scotland than 60 years of Labour nonsense. Hence why most Labour voters have defected to the SNP now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Explain this trade deal with India then please. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk You want me to explain your own answer to you? How stupid are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 You want me to explain your own answer to you? How stupid are you? No, you're adamant that this trade deal with India is going to bring un gold riches to the UK, how's that likes? It's not that it's anything new? What they going to flog us, what we gonna flog them? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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