reaths17 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I've never said that, I'm just saying natural progression will take its course and the Yes vote percentage will rise accordingly. you mean the young of today will become the old and realise the stupidity of their youth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 you mean the young of today will become the old and realise the stupidity of their youth Naw, theres a lot of elderly die hard Yoons up North especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I'm not a taxi driver so wrong again.What's taxi driving have to do with it, self employment has just been trashed unless its your own businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Naw, theres a lot of elderly die hard Yoons up North especially. you mean none of todays youth will change their opinions as they get more experience of shit politicians and the political system, you just rattle your gums for the sake of it, nae substance, like the SNP. still harking on about staying in the EU when they the EU have said Scotland wouldn't be allowed to stay in and they wouldn't be certain to get in if they had independence. shut your ears like the fish, it might just go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 you mean none of todays youth will change their opinions as they get more experience of shit politicians and the political system, you just rattle your gums for the sake of it, nae substance, like the SNP. still harking on about staying in the EU when they the EU have said Scotland wouldn't be allowed to stay in and they wouldn't be certain to get in if they had independence. shut your ears like the fish, it might just go away. Lets revisit this statement after maybe 8 years of Trump and 15 of the Torys here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 And as such people voted no, as you said. So my point is what does the current system give us? An independent Scotland would at least reset the political landscape, would have a more democratic representative electoral system, would be able to define politics on our level, rather than around middle England marginals. We have that. It's called devolution. Also, the current system is in flux, we do not yet know how the UK will shape up after Brexit happens. In other words, we can make up our own minds. We do that already. We, as people said No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 COULD. Not will, but could. Apologies, but lots of things COULD happen post Brexit, but probably won't. You obviously have faith in a system that is corrupted and that somehow it will magically be fixed. Regards mayoral systems, you think they will get powers akin to devolved nations and London? Really??? London is a devolved region. It opts to do some things differently from Whitehall departments in social welfare, public health, policing and housing. They wont have powers akin to them, but they will be empowered. For the first time since the 1970s government will need a regional development plan. Regions and mayors will benefit and be empowered. Post-Brexit it is all uo for grabs. I don't think it is fundamentally corrupted. I think it needs a bang to shake up and this is it. Independence would've like wise had a ripple effect. Equally, political expedience suggests, as does history, that powers will go down. Now there will be cross overs and areas in need of cooperation however, the political will and lie of the land is towards devolving power not retaining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Attitudinal studies can tell you so much. So can the ballot box. If so in step with ruk, explain the EU vote? Explain Snp dominance at Holyrood and Westminster elections. SNP policy is rooted in the centre ground of UK public opinion. 600,000 difference between yes and no to the EU is very marginal. Looking at numbers rather than % paints a closer vote i grant you, however, do you think if the likes of Alex Neil, former prominent cabinet minister, had been more public in his doubts over the EU or some SNP members had joined Leave it would've been a clean sweep? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Food for thought for some on here: http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/61-11/1022477.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 What page is it on? Sorry, had a quick scan and couldn't find it! I'll tell you where I am at...I voted to remain in the EU, whilst being aware that the EU in itself needs massive reform. Leaving may well have been more palatable, were it not for the right wing approach that Leave has, thus I felt it better to remain. When we do leave, I hope that the UK electorate realises that they have been mis-sold and vote accordingly to make our country better and more socially cohesive. But, given our political system, this will no doubt take decades and by that time the whole place will be screwed. The liberal case for 'Leave' ? Adam Smith Institute https://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/ Its a good read . I do accept that the ASI is right wing think tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Carlo Calenda, an Italian economics minister, said it was insulting that Johnson had told him during a recent meeting that Italy would grant Britain access to the EU?s single market ?because you don?t want to lose prosecco exports?. ?He basically said: ?I don?t want free movement of people but I want the single market,?? he told Bloomberg. ?I said: ?No way.? He said: ?You?ll sell less prosecco.? I said: ?OK, you?ll sell less fish and chips, but I?ll sell less prosecco to one country and you?ll sell less to 27 countries.? Putting things on this level is a bit insulting.? Dutch finance minister and Eurogroup president, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, said Johnson?s aims of leaving the customs union at the same time as securing immigration controls and maintaining access to the single market were not achievable. Dijsselbloem told the BBC?s Newsnight: ?I think he?s offering to the British people options that are really not available. For example, to say we could be inside the internal market but be outside the customs union, this is impossible, it just doesn?t exist. The opposite does exist. We have a customs union with Turkey but Turkey is not part of the internal market. ?He?s saying things that are intellectually impossible, politically unavailable, so I think he?s not offering the British people a fair view of what is available and what can be achieved in these negotiations.? Good to see the standard of debate between political leaders! I didn't think the UK was a big exporter of fish and chips to the EU.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I've never said that, I'm just saying natural progression will take its course and the Yes vote percentage will rise accordingly. Wee Nip's strategy that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Wee Nip's strategy that is. Slowly slowly catchy monkey. [emoji41] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 The liberal case for 'Leave' ? Adam Smith Institute https://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/ Its a good read . I do accept that the ASI is right wing think tank. Very interesting, and although I voted to remain, I was/am under no illusion that the EU needs reforming. Were it simply an economic community, then I suspect we would still be in there. The article was good, although it is very much pro globalisation and free markets. Not really something I associate with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I've never said that, I'm just saying natural progression will take its course and the Yes vote percentage will rise accordingly. Luckily the same natural progression applies to Sean Connery so that evens up one vote at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caramoon Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Lets revisit this statement after maybe 8 years of Trump and 15 of the Torys here whatever. No means no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 whatever. No means no! I didn't know Ruth D had a login here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 SNP policy is rooted in the centre ground of UK public opinion. 600,000 difference between yes and no to the EU is very marginal. Looking at numbers rather than % paints a closer vote i grant you, however, do you think if the likes of Alex Neil, former prominent cabinet minister, had been more public in his doubts over the EU or some SNP members had joined Leave it would've been a clean sweep? I don't. SNP only operates in Scotland. It shouldn't and doesn't take anymore than a passing interest in U.K. public opinion. Looking at numbers rather than percentages does not "paint a closer vote" unless you have difficulties with numeracy and proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I do. From people I talk to who didn't vote yes that's what needs to happen. Rather than bang on about democratic deficits, "Westmonster", Mhairi Black and "wait till pensioners die" they want advocates of independence to explain how that will help them pay bills, their kids get jobs, their schools run, their hospitals be paid for and their trains run on time. You know real world things. Not, we'll default on the debt. But more, we will do x, y and z with independence, which we cant do now, to make your life better. Or just keep telling yourself you need a cold winter and it'll be Alba Bu Grath on here rather than confront people's concerns. Independence as a movement needs to allow itself to be tested by allowing debate within and to accept criticism from outside. Because frankly it's a means to solving things not a solution in itself. But keep yelling "Build the wall". Hilarious! Don't you remember who wanted the wall built? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28053031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Hilarious! Don't you remember who wanted the wall built? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28053031 Such things are always a possibility. However, No ran a terrible campaign as well. Just Yes was worse. However, I was more getting Cosmic Tuna's laughable Trump-esque wait till the pensioners die remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 SNP only operates in Scotland. It shouldn't and doesn't take anymore than a passing interest in U.K. public opinion. Looking at numbers rather than percentages does not "paint a closer vote" unless you have difficulties with numeracy and proportions. 600,00 votes is a city the size of Edinburgh. In a Scottish wide vote it's not a huge gulf in opinion. The SNP isn't a left wing party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 The SNP isn't a left wing party.They certainly are not and in an independent Scotland neither them nor anybody else could afford to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Hilarious! Don't you remember who wanted the wall built? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28053031 Read the article still none the wiser as to who wanted a wall built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 They certainly are not and in an independent Scotland neither them nor anybody else could afford to be. Especially with the money we would have to pay for the divorce (Our share of the debt, pension schemes etc). And with dwindelling oil revenues, it would take major big business to keep us even afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Sammon is by career and history a capitalist but imo the SNP are very much left wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Especially with the money we would have to pay for the divorce (Our share of the debt, pension schemes etc). And with dwindelling oil revenues, it would take major big business to keep us even afloat.I'm fully accepting of an Indy Scotland btw and I don't believe the stories of doom but there would be some decisions that some people wouldn't like would have to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Especially with the money we would have to pay for the divorce (Our share of the debt, pension schemes etc). And with dwindelling oil revenues, it would take major big business to keep us even afloat. I'm going to find a video that's going to give you the biggest riddy ever on here post independence and the financial settlement. You haven't a clue. [emoji2] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Sammon is by career and history a capitalist but imo the SNP are very much left wing. Broad church, centre party. Wrong again. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Is Indyref2 still on the table ? Must be getting a bit dusty now, what is she waiting for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Pensioners born in 1980? I was born before that and I'm nowhere near retiring yet. Jeez, put down the intellectual books and live in the real world sunshine. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk **** off? You're surely not older than 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Is Indyref2 still on the table ? Must be getting a bit dusty now, what is she waiting for ? Waiting for a healthy lead in the opinion polls so MI5 can't set off fire alarms at the Dundee count next time and get away with it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 **** off? You're surely not older than 12? 2016 - 1980? [emoji52] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Is Indyref2 still on the table ? Must be getting a bit dusty now, what is she waiting for ? Her balls to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Waiting for a healthy lead in the opinion polls so MI5 can't set off fire alarms at the Dundee count next time and get away with it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Please please please tell me you're serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Please please please tell me you're serious. I'm serious Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2016 - 1980? [emoji52] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I'm serious Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk You spelled 'mental' wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Eh? You must surely have a calculator on your phone? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 You spelled 'mental' wrong. Hello Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 You must surely have a calculator on your phone? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Reread my initial post please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Reread my initial post please. It was a pop at me, but you're ok, it wasn't funny. Maybe in your head though [emoji2] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 It was a pop at me, but you're ok, it wasn't funny. Maybe in your head though [emoji2] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk It's cool, I can perfectly believe you have trouble comprehending simple English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 It's cool, I can perfectly believe you have trouble comprehending simple English. English teacher said the same thing back in 87 and my O Grade prelims. She was right an aw. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 It's cool, I can perfectly believe you have trouble comprehending simple English. Its unbelievable in the sense he has no comprehension when quoting daft doris from doncaster. Hes the scottish version. So many remain and indy voters imo and not all, are exactly what they accuse . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Its unbelievable in the sense he has no comprehension when quoting daft doris from doncaster. Hes the scottish version. So many remain and indy voters imo and not all, are exactly what they accuse . STILL, waiting on getting pulled from the EU. What's the hold ups? Are you in the queue with the other 30,000 jakey hoping for a job paper shuffling? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Is Indyref2 still on the table ? Must be getting a bit dusty now, what is she waiting for ? She is waiting for "a material change in circumstance". Which she got on the Brexit vote and confirmed herself that this was sufficient to trigger Indy2. Then oh shit. She saw the opinion polls didn't move. So she bottled it. The opinion polls ain't gonna move, even with the hope of death for older voters from Space Missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 She is waiting for "a material change in circumstance". Which she got on the Brexit vote and confirmed herself that this was sufficient to trigger Indy2. Then oh shit. She saw the opinion polls didn't move. So she bottled it. The opinion polls ain't gonna move, even with the hope of death for older voters from Space Missile. Scotland will be independent within the next 15 years. You know it, I know it and a blind mans dug knows it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Scotland will be independent within the next 15 years. You know it, I know it and a blind mans dug knows it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk With all due respect you've demonstrated that you know precisely hee haw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 With all due respect you've demonstrated that you know precisely hee haw. Is that you demonstrating the good old Yoonyinist polices of sticking your fingers in yer lugs and saying wibble? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Is that you demonstrating the good old Yoonyinist polices of sticking your fingers in yer lugs and saying wibble? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk What evidence is there that Scotland will definitely be independent within 15ys? Have the polls moved in the last two years or since the brexit vote? Nope not really. Is it a possibility that it'll happen? Of course. Far from a certainty though which you fail to acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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