Brexit?

[Space Mackerel]

What evidence is there that Scotland will definitely be independent within 15ys? Have the polls moved in the last two years or since the brexit vote? Nope not really.

 

Is it a possibility that it'll happen? Of course. Far from a certainty though which you fail to acknowledge.

It will happen, just like England lost Canada, India, Australia etc.

 

Empires deid man.

 

 

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[Hasselhoff]

Scotland will be independent within the next 15 years.

You know it, I know it and a blind mans dug knows it.

 

 

 

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I don't mind if over the next 10 years the SNP prove they can use increased powers effectively and that Scotland would be better off independent. If they are doing a good job in 10 years under them, go for it. As it stands, they are attempting to bribe the population with free prescriptions, free higher education, frozen council tax, etc. Their short term bribes were meant to get them in charge and win them the 2014 referendum. They can't afford to keep this up.

 

There is no rush. If they really are the savour of Scotland, they will be in charge for the foreseeable. They can request an indyref whenever they want if the majority of Scotland wants one.

 

Just blaming everything bad on Westminster is as as repetitive as the snpbad mantra they accuse the opposition and MSM of. We shall see if that attitude continues to work.

[Space Mackerel]

I don't mind if over the next 10 years the SNP prove they can use increased powers effectively and that Scotland would be better off independent. If they are doing a good job in 10 years under them, go for it. As it stands, they are attempting to bribe the population with free prescriptions, free higher education, frozen council tax, etc. Their short term bribes were meant to get them in charge and win them the 2014 referendum. They can't afford to keep this up.

 

There is no rush. If they really are the savour of Scotland, they will be in charge for the foreseeable. They can request an indyref whenever they want if the majority of Scotland wants one.

 

Just blaming everything bad on Westminster is as as repetitive as the snpbad mantra they accuse the opposition and MSM of. We shall see if that attitude continues to work.

Some nonsense this, it was SNPbaaaad from the MSM and now the SNP are calling Westminster baaaaaad?

 

Maybe that's because of the policies introduced by the Tory party and austerity back in the Cameron and Osbourne days? Well I never.

 

 

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[jake]

STILL, waiting on getting pulled from the EU.

What's the hold ups?

Are you in the queue with the other 30,000 jakey hoping for a job paper shuffling?

 

 

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I bet you were cheesin when you typed that shit.

 

Deary me

[Space Mackerel]

I bet you were cheesin when you typed that shit.

 

Deary me

You seem a bit disillusioned with modern life jakey?

You're not a lazy feck of a perpetual student kind of person who wants everything handed on a plate with sparklers?

 

Civil service could be a good stepping stone to greatness.

 

 

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[jake]

You seem a bit disillusioned with modern life jakey?

You're not a lazy feck of a perpetual student kind of person who wants everything handed on a plate with sparklers?

 

Civil service could be a good stepping stone to greatness.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Yeah thats me .

 

The insights astounding ...

[Space Mackerel]

Yeah thats me .

 

The insights astounding ...

Photocopying and filing will be a valuable resource/skill once Brexit kicks in, companies will be screaming out for this once all the red tape and tariffs start. It's the new future.

 

 

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[Francis Albert]

It will happen, just like England lost Canada, India, Australia etc.

 

Empires deid man.

 

 

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The UK "lost" the Empire. Scots practically ran the Empire. Certainly as a proportion of the UK population Scots, army and civilian, predominated.

[Space Mackerel]

The UK "lost" the Empire. Scots practically ran the Empire. Certainly as a proportion of the UK population Scots, army and civilian, predominated.

How the feck can Scotland run an Empire when we are "too wee and too stupid?"

 

[emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53]

 

 

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[coconut doug]

600,00 votes is a city the size of Edinburgh. In a Scottish wide vote it's not a huge gulf in opinion.

 

The SNP isn't a left wing party.

Edinburgh's population is about 100,000 less than you claim.

 

600,000 is more than the population of Scotland's largest city but in fact there was a difference of 642,869 between remain and leave. A significantly larger figure than you claim.  

 

The margin of leave's defeat was massive. They got only a bit more than 1/3 of the votes, remain got 24% more than they did. This is far greater than Indyref, where No voters claimed a clear victory.

 

It is clear that there is a gulf in opinion, both in Scotland and the U.K. I think what you are trying to say is that there is not a big gulf in the numbers voting for either side. That may be true in other parts but it is not true in Scotland where we have again demonstrated that we think differently to those elsewhere in the U.K.

 

We don't vote for UKIP or any of the other extreme right wing parties in significant numbers, as the rest of Britain does from time to time. The Tory revival is a myth. They got their lowest share of the vote in Scotland at the last G.E. I don't know if you've noticed but the Tories are thriving in England and likely to do so for the foreseeable future  We are being taken out of the EU by a bunch of people on the right of their party. Men who Varoufakis called intellectually limited and men who seem amoral, at least that's how Johnson and Fox come across to me.

 

Despite this you seem compelled to tell me that the SNP are not a left wing party as if I had somewhere claimed that the were. They are of course considerably to the left of all other major parties in Scotland, but actually the use of archaic and discredited left/right terminology is pointless only serving to demonstrate your lack of understanding about modern politics. Trying to label those who disagree with you and the established political parties as populist is what led to Brexit, Trump and may produce a victory for Le Pen. Trying to trivialise a 642.869 majority in an electorate as small as that of Scotland is verging on dishonesty. The Scottish people are very different to the English on this and many matters, that is the main reason most of us use to support our arguments for independence.

[JamboX2]

Error 

[jake]

Edinburgh's population is about 100,000 less than you claim.

 

600,000 is more than the population of Scotland's largest city but in fact there was a difference of 642,869 between remain and leave. A significantly larger figure than you claim.

 

The margin of leave's defeat was massive. They got only a bit more than 1/3 of the votes, remain got 24% more than they did. This is far greater than Indyref, where No voters claimed a clear victory.

 

It is clear that there is a gulf in opinion, both in Scotland and the U.K. I think what you are trying to say is that there is not a big gulf in the numbers voting for either side. That may be true in other parts but it is not true in Scotland where we have again demonstrated that we think differently to those elsewhere in the U.K.

 

We don't vote for UKIP or any of the other extreme right wing parties in significant numbers, as the rest of Britain does from time to time. The Tory revival is a myth. They got their lowest share of the vote in Scotland at the last G.E. I don't know if you've noticed but the Tories are thriving in England and likely to do so for the foreseeable future We are being taken out of the EU by a bunch of people on the right of their party. Men who Varoufakis called intellectually limited and men who seem amoral, at least that's how Johnson and Fox come across to me.

 

Despite this you seem compelled to tell me that the SNP are not a left wing party as if I had somewhere claimed that the were. They are of course considerably to the left of all other major parties in Scotland, but actually the use of archaic and discredited left/right terminology is pointless only serving to demonstrate your lack of understanding about modern politics. Trying to label those who disagree with you and the established political parties as populist is what led to Brexit, Trump and may produce a victory for Le Pen. Trying to trivialise a 642.869 majority in an electorate as small as that of Scotland is verging on dishonesty. The Scottish people are very different to the English on this and many matters, that is the main reason most of us use to support our arguments for independence.

 

 

Coconut doug is not a member of the snp.

[JamboX2]

Edinburgh's population is about 100,000 less than you claim.

 

600,000 is more than the population of Scotland's largest city but in fact there was a difference of 642,869 between remain and leave. A significantly larger figure than you claim.  

 

The margin of leave's defeat was massive. They got only a bit more than 1/3 of the votes, remain got 24% more than they did. This is far greater than Indyref, where No voters claimed a clear victory.

 

It is clear that there is a gulf in opinion, both in Scotland and the U.K. I think what you are trying to say is that there is not a big gulf in the numbers voting for either side. That may be true in other parts but it is not true in Scotland where we have again demonstrated that we think differently to those elsewhere in the U.K.

 

We don't vote for UKIP or any of the other extreme right wing parties in significant numbers, as the rest of Britain does from time to time. The Tory revival is a myth. They got their lowest share of the vote in Scotland at the last G.E. I don't know if you've noticed but the Tories are thriving in England and likely to do so for the foreseeable future  We are being taken out of the EU by a bunch of people on the right of their party. Men who Varoufakis called intellectually limited and men who seem amoral, at least that's how Johnson and Fox come across to me.

 

Despite this you seem compelled to tell me that the SNP are not a left wing party as if I had somewhere claimed that the were. They are of course considerably to the left of all other major parties in Scotland, but actually the use of archaic and discredited left/right terminology is pointless only serving to demonstrate your lack of understanding about modern politics. Trying to label those who disagree with you and the established political parties as populist is what led to Brexit, Trump and may produce a victory for Le Pen. Trying to trivialise a 642.869 majority in an electorate as small as that of Scotland is verging on dishonesty. The Scottish people are very different to the English on this and many matters, that is the main reason most of us use to support our arguments for independence.

 

My point on Edinburgh being the size of the vote gap was a figurative illustration - I also believed Edinburgh had a higher population - if I were to say "I feel like I've been kicked by horse" chances are I haven't been kicked by a horse.

 

I agree on Johnson and Fox. It's hard not to. However, social attitude surveys show massive similarities between the attitudes of the Scottish people to the wider UK. Now, that has not been reflected in the outcome of the EU referendum, but the SNP is not far off the centre ground of UK politics - it has always had members, politicians who were not in favour of ever closer union (Mike Russell's book "Grasping The Thistle" stated the SNP was not in favour of ever closer union), it may have reserved agreeing to some tax reforms from Westminster, however it still has found no time in the last 11 years to abolish the regressive council tax nor has it decided to levy a higher rate on higher earners (you can of course apply a 0% band on earners below the higher rate to avoid unforseen rises on others), it's view on the economy is largely that of a modern liberal, free market approach and it is equally in favour of things like NATO (oddly including the nuclear umbrella, just not in Scotland...) and has rarely sought the re-nationalisation of things it could in it's control (railways or local bus routes). 

 

The Tories got their highest share of the vote in Holyrood a year later. In 2010 Labour got it's highest vote share in Scotland in god knows how long at Westminster and a year later was wiped out at Holyrood. People are very capable of moving their vote quickly and for a multitude of reasons. 

 

I never said it to you, I believe my response was to Boris. I believe the Greens and Labour are in areas to their left, Corbyn's UK Labour is certainly to the SNPs left on a huge range of issues. I don't even think any senior SNP MSP or MP would these days suggest that being lukewarm toward NATO, or would countenance walking around calling for People's QE, nor even a Basic Income. 

 

Trump is populism. The man changed his message and his tone depending on the state he entered and the audience he faced. Clean the swamp, suck up to Wall Street. Build the wall and Mexicans are rapists, then Latinos bring much to this nation. Punishments for abortions, no punishments for abortions. That is naked populism. There is very little in the way of coherent thought or policy there. Merely a populist rhetoric. Brexit too, is anger and revulsion at living standards, job prospects and an unresponsive political class to this (which across the UK there has been) directed at the EU by the likes of fellow populist Farage. Yes, some, perhaps a significant number of Brexiters in Scotland, England, Wales and NI or rustbelters in America agreed with leaving the EU or electing a racist and sexist sultana to be President, but a lot of it is anger and a feeling of being left behind. 

 

Would Sanders tap that angst? Certainly more than Clinton. We will see if Alain Jupe the centrist ex-PM or the more right wing Sarkozy can defeat Le Penn, Sarko is certainly tacking right to try and win votes from her. 

 

And yet, Yes lost. I have said it to you before, but the way Yes will win is by the SNP in office being bolder and showing what bold things it can do in office for people and what more it could do with the powers of independence. It is also by being engaged with No voters and the unconverted in the middle. Yes, like Labour in 2015, spoke to it's own more than the wider electorate and lost. 

[Francis Albert]

How the feck can Scotland run an Empire when we are "too wee and too stupid?"

 

[emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53][emoji53]

 

 

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Because we are not stupid. In fact we were once (post-Union certainly not pre-Union) one of the best educated countries in Europe. And as a result we made an enormous and disproportionate contribution to running an empire which we couldn't have obtained on our own. I am not saying we should be proud of doing so. Just that we should admit it instead of claiming not to have done it. And not push this ludicrous idea that somehow we are morally superior to the English imperialists.

[Deodato]

BBC Question Time raised an interesting point which has long puzzled me. 

 

'Ever Greater Union' are the words championed by the EU, which indicated a gravitational force of centralising power in the EU and away from national states. Never been denied, and often been championed. So, if Scotland want to leave the United Kingdom, to which it has devolved power, and enter the EU which dissolves national power in favour of centralisation. 

 

Two ships passing each other in the night came to mind, then and now. If you could weight 'political power' into a point value, it would be interesting to see if 'net-net' Scotland would have less of it Ex-UK, In-EU. 

 

Deodato 

[AlphonseCapone]

BBC Question Time raised an interesting point which has long puzzled me.

 

'Ever Greater Union' are the words championed by the EU, which indicated a gravitational force of centralising power in the EU and away from national states. Never been denied, and often been championed. So, if Scotland want to leave the United Kingdom, to which it has devolved power, and enter the EU which dissolves national power in favour of centralisation.

 

Two ships passing each other in the night came to mind, then and now. If you could weight 'political power' into a point value, it would be interesting to see if 'net-net' Scotland would have less of it Ex-UK, In-EU.

 

Deodato

Federal UK. Couldn't get any better for Scotland. Or the other nations IMO.

[aussieh]

I'm fully accepting of an Indy Scotland btw and I don't believe the stories of doom but there would be some decisions that some people wouldn't like would have to be made.

Here Jack, did you know its only liabilities we'll inherit?.

 

So I8 keeps saying.

 

Oh and gers has just been blown to bits.

[aussieh]

BBC Question Time raised an interesting point which has long puzzled me.

 

'Ever Greater Union' are the words championed by the EU, which indicated a gravitational force of centralising power in the EU and away from national states. Never been denied, and often been championed. So, if Scotland want to leave the United Kingdom, to which it has devolved power, and enter the EU which dissolves national power in favour of centralisation.

 

Two ships passing each other in the night came to mind, then and now. If you could weight 'political power' into a point value, it would be interesting to see if 'net-net' Scotland would have less of it Ex-UK, In-EU.

 

Deodato

I thought unions were the best thing ever? Oh it's taken 300 years and an indyref to receive your pish devo.

[aussieh]

Because we are not stupid. In fact we were once (post-Union certainly not pre-Union) one of the best educated countries in Europe. And as a result we made an enormous and disproportionate contribution to running an empire which we couldn't have obtained on our own. I am not saying we should be proud of doing so. Just that we should admit it instead of claiming not to have done it. And not push this ludicrous idea that somehow we are morally superior to the English imperialists.

You need to check your facts on pre union Scots education.

[aussieh]

SNP policy is rooted in the centre ground of UK public opinion.

 

600,000 difference between yes and no to the EU is very marginal. Looking at numbers rather than % paints a closer vote i grant you, however, do you think if the likes of Alex Neil, former prominent cabinet minister, had been more public in his doubts over the EU or some SNP members had joined Leave it would've been a clean sweep? I don't.

If 600 000 is marginal

187 000 - 490 000 ruk votes = independence.

 

 

Tick tock Britain

 

 

 

Mintit

[Arnold Rothstein]

If 600 000 is marginal

187 000 - 490 000 ruk votes = independence.

 

 

Tick tock Britain

 

 

 

Mintit

You know how percentages work aye?

[aussieh]

You know how percentages work aye?

do tell, 62% and all that pish, Arnie.

 

Muppet last night giving the auld return of sovereignty to the UK government and he votes no for Scottish sovereignty, ffs. That my friend is a fecking bigot.

[Boris]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html

 

Potential game changer?

[JamboX2]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-fresh-blow-for-theresa-may-as-supreme-court-rules-scotland-and-wales-can-intervene-in-article-a7424796.html

 

Potential game changer?

Nah. Court will confirm devolved legislatures and parliament are to be consulted. As per the constitution and as per the devolution legislation. So, nothing new.

[Boris]

Nah. Court will confirm devolved legislatures and parliament are to be consulted. As per the constitution and as per the devolution legislation. So, nothing new.

 

Even although triggering Article 50 unilaterally could have implications on devolved legislation?

 

Your scenario could posibly show Westminster can over-rule Holyrood on devolved matters.  Not a good precedent to set!

[JamboX2]

Even although triggering Article 50 unilaterally could have implications on devolved legislation?

 

Your scenario could posibly show Westminster can over-rule Holyrood on devolved matters. Not a good precedent to set!

No. By consultation i mean a Legislative Consent Motion. Holyrood will have to provide it's support in a vote. The crisis erupts after that if they reject it. The rejection though may not happen depending on what happens next.

[Boris]

No. By consultation i mean a Legislative Consent Motion. Holyrood will have to provide it's support in a vote. The crisis erupts after that if they reject it. The rejection though may not happen depending on what happens next.

 

Which is the really interesting part!

[JamboX2]

Which is the really interesting part!

 

Indeed. There's an argument that the returning powers within reason (ie where there's no need for coordination UK wide) should be devolved. That and say funding guarantees could present an opening for compromise. Imho mind.

[The Comedian]

This wouldn't be the SNP trying to derail a democratic referendum result now would it? Dangerous game, considering how they'd like other Parliaments/Assemblies to act should Scotland one day vote for Independence.

 

The Welsh voted majority to leave.

[Hasselhoff]

Oh and gers has just been blown to bits.

Assuming you are referring to the National story from today, have a read of the following:

 

http://rwbblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/gers-beyond-laser-engineer.html

 

The premise of the gers story is that rUK will continue to pay pensions of people in another country after separation which is lunacy. Other than that they are admitting gers is correct and that we would have to cut costs or raise taxes to make up for the loss of money from going Indy which is what no voters have always said. Question is, what taxes will be raised and which services will be cut?

[jake]

Which is the really interesting part!

 

If brexit is scuppered by scottish intervention it could lead to English voters wanting seperation.

Thats an outcome that i wouldnt mind but id be raging if we allowed ourselves to remain part of a failing union .

The EU.

Like the recent results or not its shaking the place up which imo is always good.

[jack D and coke]

Assuming you are referring to the National story from today, have a read of the following:

 

http://rwbblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/gers-beyond-laser-engineer.html

 

The premise of the gers story is that rUK will continue to pay pensions of people in another country after separation which is lunacy. Other than that they are admitting gers is correct and that we would have to cut costs or raise taxes to make up for the loss of money from going Indy which is what no voters have always said. Question is, what taxes will be raised and which services will be cut?

If you move to Spain the U.K. Government still pays your pension. What's different or lunacy about it?

[Hasselhoff]

If you move to Spain the U.K. Government still pays your pension. What's different or lunacy about it?

That's because if you move to Spain you are still a UK citizen. Come out of the UK and we are no longer uk citizens nor are we rUK citizens. Why would rUK pay for the pensions of another country?

[Hasselhoff]

http://rwbblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/was-uk-bound-to-pay-scottish-pensions.html?m=1

 

More info about pensions

[Sraman]

That's because if you move to Spain you are still a UK citizen. Come out of the UK and we are no longer uk citizens nor are we rUK citizens. Why would rUK pay for the pensions of another country?

 

Because the people of that country have paid into the UK pension fund all of their lives?

[jack D and coke]

That's because if you move to Spain you are still a UK citizen. Come out of the UK and we are no longer uk citizens nor are we rUK citizens. Why would rUK pay for the pensions of another country?

What if I live abroad at the moment and have a British passport? I wasn't allowed a vote etc I'm suddenly not entitled to my British passport anymore? My mate recently became an Australian citizen they didn't take his British passport off him. How will that work?

Will it be people all over the planet will get theirs except people who live in Scotland? I don't think so personally.

[Hasselhoff]

What if I live abroad at the moment and have a British passport? I wasn't allowed a vote etc I'm suddenly not entitled to my British passport anymore? My mate recently became an Australian citizen they didn't take his British passport off him. How will that work?

Apply to the Supreme Court to overhaul an Indy vote like what people do nowadays when they don't get something they want! The responsibility to pay pensions of Indy Scotland people transfers to the Scottish government. If indy Scotland struggles financially, pensions are at risk. Exactly what the no side said during the Indyref campaign but yes spin turned it into a project fear accusation.

[jack D and coke]

Apply to the Supreme Court to overhaul an Indy vote like what people do nowadays when they don't get something they want! The responsibility to pay pensions of Indy Scotland people transfers to the Scottish government. If indy Scotland struggles financially, pensions are at risk. Exactly what the no side said during the Indyref campaign but yes spin turned it into a project fear accusation.

Not really an answer though is it. You're kind of surmising.

[Cade]

Because the people of that country have paid into the UK pension fund all of their lives?

That is NOT how the system works.

 

When you pay into the system, that money immediately gets taken out to pay for the pensions of the current generation of old dears.

 

The Government does not put it aside in a nice wee savings account for you to use later in life.

 

Ex-pats are cheeky *******s, claiming pensions and winter fuel allowances even though they dont live here or contribute any more.

[Hasselhoff]

Not really an answer though is it. You're kind of surmising.

Did you read the link above? Don't think he mentioned foreign based Uk people specifically but from that you can see the levels of spin Yes used to hoodwink voters.

 

I will see if I can find out

[jack D and coke]

Did you read the link above? Don't think he mentioned foreign based Uk people specifically but from that you can see the levels of spin Yes used to hoodwink voters.

 

I will see if I can find out

Yeah I read it that's why I answered your post.

[Space Mackerel]

11 min video on the options to Scotland post Yes vote. It's a bit grainy and not the best but worth a watch.

 

I8 take note.

 

Hhttps://youtu.be/AifFOIrpTV0

 

New White Paper being delivered Jan 2017 too.

[Hasselhoff]

Yeah I read it that's why I answered your post.

Just asking as you quoted my other post, wasn't sure you'd seen it.

[Space Mackerel]

Because we are not stupid. In fact we were once (post-Union certainly not pre-Union) one of the best educated countries in Europe. And as a result we made an enormous and disproportionate contribution to running an empire which we couldn't have obtained on our own. I am not saying we should be proud of doing so. Just that we should admit it instead of claiming not to have done it. And not push this ludicrous idea that somehow we are morally superior to the English imperialists.

We still are a highly educated population, that's my original point. But some Yoonys like to portray we are always going to be cap in hand to Westminster, financially and economically.

 

Personally I couldn't care about the Empire, it finished years ago, even if Brexit thinks it wants to take us back to Queen Victoria's time.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[aussieh]

Assuming you are referring to the National story from today, have a read of the following:

 

http://rwbblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/gers-beyond-laser-engineer.html

 

The premise of the gers story is that rUK will continue to pay pensions of people in another country after separation which is lunacy. Other than that they are admitting gers is correct and that we would have to cut costs or raise taxes to make up for the loss of money from going Indy which is what no voters have always said. Question is, what taxes will be raised and which services will be cut?

Income tax will rise, but that's for Indy Scotland. Why should we pay more than the rest while we're still in it.

I'd tax ever square inch of land in Scotland.

 

Cut? Well that will be our chains from England.

[Space Mackerel]

The good old Torygraph out with this today. Not looking too good for the Brexiteers.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20161119095835/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/nicola-sturgeon-could-halt-brexit-through-ruling-in-european-cou/

[Francis Albert]

The good old Torygraph out with this today. Not looking too good for the Brexiteers.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20161119095835/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/18/nicola-sturgeon-could-halt-brexit-through-ruling-in-european-cou/

"England and Wales voted for Brexit". SNP still unable to come to terms with the fact that it is the UK which is an EU member and it is the UK that voted for Brexit.

 

I am not sure either where this "cosy consensus" that Article 50 once triggered can't be reversed comes from. The author of Article 50 has said it can be. Parliament will have to vote many changes to the law to give effect to the outcome of the Brexit negotiation. What happens if Parliament doesn't approve those changes?

[Francis Albert]

We still are a highly educated population, that's my original point. But some Yoonys like to portray we are always going to be cap in hand to Westminster, financially and economically.

 

Personally I couldn't care about the Empire, it finished years ago, even if Brexit thinks it wants to take us back to Queen Victoria's time.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Then why did you draw the analogy between "England" losing the empire and Scotland gaining independence from England?

[Space Mackerel]

"England and Wales voted for Brexit". SNP still unable to come to terms with the fact that it is the UK which is an EU member and it is the UK that voted for Brexit.

 

I am not sure either where this "cosy consensus" that Article 50 once triggered can't be reversed comes from. The author of Article 50 has said it can be. Parliament will have to vote many changes to the law to give effect to the outcome of the Brexit negotiation. What happens if Parliament doesn't approve those changes?

I remember Cameron coming up to Aberdeen on the eve of the indyref, live on tv at 6pm, filling a conference room with lackeys bussed and flown up from Tory HQ, begging us, practically sobbing saying vote No and stay a full part of UK decision making in the future.

 

Well guess what, we stayed and are doing just that.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Francis Albert]

I remember Cameron coming up to Aberdeen on the eve of the indyref, live on tv at 6pm, filling a conference room with lackeys bussed and flown up from Tory HQ, begging us, practically sobbing saying vote No and stay a full part of UK decision making in the future.

 

Well guess what, we stayed and are doing just that.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Errmmm, yes. Your point?