US Elections 2016

[Francis Albert]

I know that you're not serious with that question.  

 

What I am curious about is whether you doubt the negative effect on indigenous people in North America, as a result of the arrival of Europeans.  To describe it as a calamity would not be an overstatement.

 

And it started with Columbus, who was harsh, to see the least.  That is generally accepted as historical fact.  You could say that Columbus set the tone, although the ensuing genocide can't be all laid at his feet.

"Negative effect"??? To describe it as genocide is not an understatement. The United States of Amnesia (as Gore Vidal called it) , in all its "land of the free", "beacon of freedom and liberty to the world", "all men are created equal" and "inalienable rights" self righteous rhetoric seems forgetful of the fact that it was built on the twin pillars of genocide and slavery. 

 

Whatever Trump inflicts it won't be the worst that has befallen the territory of the USA and he won't be the most racist, misogynist, corrupt, or murderous occupant of the White House.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Francis Albert

[Maple Leaf]

"Negative effect"??? To describe it as genocide is not an understatement. The United States of Amnesia (as Gore Vidal called it) , in all its "land of the free", "beacon of freedom and liberty to the world", "all men are created equal" and "inalienable rights" self righteous rhetoric seems forgetful of the fact that it was built on the twin pillars of genocide and slavery. 

 

Whatever Trump inflicts it won't be the worst that has befallen the territory of the USA and he won't be the most racist, misogynist, corrupt, or murderous occupant of the White House.

I agree with your first paragraph.  I called it a calamity, you called it genocide.  I don't think one precludes the other.

 

As for Trump, if he isn't " the most racist, misogynist, corrupt, or murderous occupant of the White House" who,in your opinion, would be?

[Francis Albert]

I agree with your first paragraph.  I called it a calamity, you called it genocide.  I don't think one precludes the other.

 

As for Trump, if he isn't " the most racist, misogynist, corrupt, or murderous occupant of the White House" who,in your opinion, would be?

Those who oversaw the genocide of native Americans would win on the murderous count. Those who owned slaves or who supported slavery or segregation on the racist front, those who opposed womens' rights to vote and on many other issues on and those who abused women on a scale not proven against Trump on the misogynist front, and corruption... oh come on!

Edited November 22, 2016 by Francis Albert

[Watt-Zeefuik]

And how is dropping Christmas in favour of a generalist term to describe the period "religious liberty"?

 

Once again, I am amazed at how many strident atheists are rushing to my religious defence.  Y'all, stop, it's embarrassing.

 

Seriously, why do you care?  Of all of the ways that various religions or non-religious people have been oppressed over the centuries, how is not having the name of a holiday on the official state document anything remotely worth being upset about?  

 

We have people calling Islam a cancer, and proposing a registry or ban for all immigrants from Muslim countries, and you're upset about a city roughly the size of Dundee changing the name of something.  Have a word.  (And I'll bet all the folks making a fuss are those who wring their hands about people being "easily offended."  My stars.)

 

 

I could not or would not try to ever down play the negative effect that these raiders, invaders, marauders or any other name you'd give to this type of event in mans history had on the people involved. Not only in North America though. World history is fraught with this type of behavior. What was posted was just stupid and mostly made up conjecture by the original writer.  

 

Ah yes, except for the sources that are explicitly cited at the bottom.  Things that ATIS disagrees with are "made up."  I'm starting to see the pattern.

 

 

 

Whatever Trump inflicts it won't be the worst that has befallen the territory of the USA and he won't be the most racist, misogynist, corrupt, or murderous occupant of the White House.

 

I certainly hope you're right, and that he doesn't pass, say, Andrew Jackson or GWB on the murderous list, or Wilson on racism.

 

But even before the transition's happened, we have Trump using his office to angle for a reversal of a planning decision in Buenos Aries for a new Trump Tower and turning his business over to his children while getting them security clearances and including them on his transition team.  That scale of conflict of interest, out in the open, is literally unprecedented.  We have never, ever had a President be so brazen about using the office for personal gain before.  Even Harding at least tried to cover up Teapot Dome.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

The "real guff" I've posted on here where you have triumphantly caught me at "lying:"

 

My claim:I claimed that the wife of Keith Scott had told police that here husband had a traumatic brain injury before they shot him.  

Fact: She had said, "he's not going to hurt you" before they shot him, because there was so little time.  After the shot, she told them he had a traumatic brain injury.  Boy, what a howler!

 

My claim: I claimed that the FBI had reported an uptick in hate crimes since the election had ended.

Fact: The SPLC had reported an uptick in hate crimes since the election had ended, and the FBI had confirmed the SPLC's earlier report of an uptick in hate crimes since July.  You really caught me there!

 

My claim: I said you responded with "all lies."

Fact: You responded with "more lies."

I can't believe I show my face around here anymore.

 

In the meantime, elvoys has claimed that the SPLC now maintains a death list and that the office of the San Francisco school system was distributing anti-Trump talking points.

The story you posted earlier in November with regards to the second claim, an "uptick" on hate crimes was actually a report for the year 2015. Nothing in that report from the FBI mentioned "since July 2016"  Just saying...............

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Once again, I am amazed at how many strident atheists are rushing to my religious defence.  Y'all, stop, it's embarrassing.

 

Seriously, why do you care?  Of all of the ways that various religions or non-religious people have been oppressed over the centuries, how is not having the name of a holiday on the official state document anything remotely worth being upset about?  

 

We have people calling Islam a cancer, and proposing a registry or ban for all immigrants from Muslim countries, and you're upset about a city roughly the size of Dundee changing the name of something.  Have a word.  (And I'll bet all the folks making a fuss are those who wring their hands about people being "easily offended."  My stars.)

 

 

 

Ah yes, except for the sources that are explicitly cited at the bottom.  Things that ATIS disagrees with are "made up."  I'm starting to see the pattern.

 

 

 

I certainly hope you're right, and that he doesn't pass, say, Andrew Jackson or GWB on the murderous list, or Wilson on racism.

 

But even before the transition's happened, we have Trump using his office to angle for a reversal of a planning decision in Buenos Aries for a new Trump Tower and turning his business over to his children while getting them security clearances and including them on his transition team.  That scale of conflict of interest, out in the open, is literally unprecedented.  We have never, ever had a President be so brazen about using the office for personal gain before.  Even Harding at least tried to cover up Teapot Dome.

Cited sources? That's what you're going with for something that happened 600 years ago. Not to mention the eye witness accounts. Unfriggin'believable.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Cited sources? That's what you're going with for something that happened 600 years ago. Not to mention the eye witness accounts. Unfriggin'believable.

 

Okay, for real.  Do you actually know anything at all about how historians do their work?  Or do you imagine that everything that took place before the invention of the daguerreotype is made up?

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Okay, for real.  Do you actually know anything at all about how historians do their work?  Or do you imagine that everything that took place before the invention of the daguerreotype is made up?

No I have no idea how historians do their work. Without videos/photography back up, I like you have no idea that the actual wording is exactly how it happened.  Now back to your attachment. Did these dogs mentioned in the piece only eat limbs and entrails or could they eat other parts too? How long did the screaming and wailing go on? What kind of medical procedure was done on the natives who's hands were cut off for not giving up enough gold to stop them bleeding to death while they went in search of more gold for Chris? That point kinda defeats the purpose but that's just me. You post drivel on here and throw $#!t against the wall.

[Riddley Walker]

No I have no idea how historians do their work. Without videos/photography back up, I like you have no idea that the actual wording is exactly how it happened. Now back to your attachment. Did these dogs mentioned in the piece only eat limbs and entrails or could they eat other parts too? How long did the screaming and wailing go on? What kind of medical procedure was done on the natives who's hands were cut off for not giving up enough gold to stop them bleeding to death while they went in search of more gold for Chris? That point kinda defeats the purpose but that's just me. You post drivel on here and throw $#!t against the wall.

Are you niblick?

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Are you niblick?

Read it and tell me that its not some nut job who wrote it.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

No I have no idea how historians do their work. Without videos/photography back up, I like you have no idea that the actual wording is exactly how it happened.  Now back to your attachment. Did these dogs mentioned in the piece only eat limbs and entrails or could they eat other parts too? How long did the screaming and wailing go on? What kind of medical procedure was done on the natives who's hands were cut off for not giving up enough gold to stop them bleeding to death while they went in search of more gold for Chris? That point kinda defeats the purpose but that's just me. You post drivel on here and throw $#!t against the wall.

 

Wow.

[Riddley Walker]

Read it and tell me that its not some nut job who wrote it.

It's not some nut job who wrote it. I'm a discerning ***** as well.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Wow.

Thanks. Taken straight from your attachment, so not really all eye witness accounts per se or from any history book ever written.

 

 

"These are the ideas the comprise Columbus's legacy

I am here to dispel those ideas

and, with as much candor as I can muster,

introduce a few of my own.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

It's not some nut job who wrote it. I'm a discerning ***** as well.

Not if you believe that in its entirety.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Thanks. Taken straight from your attachment, so not really all eye witness accounts per se or from any history book ever written.

 

 

"These are the ideas the comprise Columbus's legacy

I am here to dispel those ideas

and, with as much candor as I can muster,

introduce a few of my own.

 

From the link:

 

"Sources: All of the information in this essay came from A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn, and Lies My Teacher Told Me, by James W. Loewen, both of which uses primary sources such as eyewitness accounts, journal entries, and letters from Christopher Columbus himself."

 

Absolutely none of the historical facts reported in that comic are in any way disputed by any serious historian.  None.  It's extremely well-documented what Columbus did upon his arrival.  Zinn's book in particular is a classic and was assigned to me as part of my 11th grade American History course.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Once again, I am amazed at how many strident atheists are rushing to my religious defence.  Y'all, stop, it's embarrassing.

 

Seriously, why do you care?  Of all of the ways that various religions or non-religious people have been oppressed over the centuries, how is not having the name of a holiday on the official state document anything remotely worth being upset about?  

 

We have people calling Islam a cancer, and proposing a registry or ban for all immigrants from Muslim countries, and you're upset about a city roughly the size of Dundee changing the name of something.  Have a word.  (And I'll bet all the folks making a fuss are those who wring their hands about people being "easily offended."  My stars.)

 

 

You lost the election and now you've lost the plot. You need to do what your gal did after the defeat. Curl up in a ball and go without make-up for a few days. 

[Bindy Badgy]

I'd just give up UA. There are certain posters on here that you can have a rational debate with and others that you can't. You get the same people posting nonsensical drivel in any thread that is about a complex topic. Trying to have a logical debate about the issue is a one way ticket to an aneurysm.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Stokesy

[jake]

I agree with your first paragraph. I called it a calamity, you called it genocide. I don't think one precludes the other.

 

As for Trump, if he isn't " the most racist, misogynist, corrupt, or murderous occupant of the White House" who,in your opinion, would be?

 

I take it you have never read the speeches or indeed viewed the actions of the luvvies president john kennedy.

Clinton obama.

 

These presidents are between them more racist murderous empire building than a man who isnt even in power.

 

 

Jesus the dogma of some people

[jake]

Those who oversaw the genocide of native Americans would win on the murderous count. Those who owned slaves or who supported slavery or segregation on the racist front, those who opposed womens' rights to vote and on many other issues on and those who abused women on a scale not proven against Trump on the misogynist front, and corruption... oh come on!

 

Dont want to embarrass you but once again you're spot on.

[jake]

History is written by the victors.

 

 

Dont forget that.

 

Always has a point.

[Sidelight]

Poor attempt at trolling.  Try harder.

Looking out for your next reveal as a Republican Democrat candidate. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

From the link:

 

"Sources: All of the information in this essay came from A People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn, and Lies My Teacher Told Me, by James W. Loewen, both of which uses primary sources such as eyewitness accounts, journal entries, and letters from Christopher Columbus himself."

 

Absolutely none of the historical facts reported in that comic are in any way disputed by any serious historian.  None.  It's extremely well-documented what Columbus did upon his arrival.  Zinn's book in particular is a classic and was assigned to me as part of my 11th grade American History course.

I saw the "sources" near the end of his blog. Any ideas why he wrote what he wrote at the beginning?

Howard Zinn? An admitted anarchist.

[JamboX2]

I take it you have never read the speeches or indeed viewed the actions of the luvvies president john kennedy.

Clinton obama.

 

These presidents are between them more racist murderous empire building than a man who isnt even in power.

 

 

Jesus the dogma of some people

I like to keep an open mind to most things. But Trump is someone who I find hard to believe will be anything but a flop. He has stated that he will separate office from business yet he has had his daughter Ivanka by his side in a meeting with Japanese PM Shinzo Abe and on a call with the Argentinian President. Ivanka is set to run his business once he assumes office.

 

Added to that Channel 4 news tonight reported he had been pushing Farage to use his influence in the UK to go against off shore wind farms. Something he has a bit of a history with in the UK.

 

This is a man who set up a university and charged people thousands of dollars in tuition for nothing close to such a claim of education. Hence the lawsuit.

 

He has repeatedly been shown up as misogynist. And his language towards hispanics has fueled growing racial tension. The Daily Beast attended a pro-Trump lobby last weekend where they greated news of his win by raising their arms in a Nazi salute. Now he has not endorsed the latters use of a Nazi salute but they are emboldened by his rhetoric.

 

Trump may well end up a successful president but he is certainly no saint in comparison to his predecessors.

 

And on the murderous empire building... he's called for water boarding, rendition and torture, all out war of all military means against ISIS, the seizure of Iraqi Oil, tearing up peace deals with Iran and targetting the civilian relatives of terrorists... some of those breach the UN Charter, some the Geneva Conventions and all the basic decency of man. I do not recall Clinton calling for the death of Milosovic's family during the Balkan crisis. Nor even George H. W. Bush calling for the use of torture against Iraqi troops in the Gulf War.

 

Each to their own, but I don't think you can say Trump is anyway better than his Democratic predecessors.

[jake]

I like to keep an open mind to most things. But Trump is someone who I find hard to believe will be anything but a flop. He has stated that he will separate office from business yet he has had his daughter Ivanka by his side in a meeting with Japanese PM Shinzo Abe and on a call with the Argentinian President. Ivanka is set to run his business once he assumes office.

 

Added to that Channel 4 news tonight reported he had been pushing Farage to use his influence in the UK to go against off shore wind farms. Something he has a bit of a history with in the UK.

 

This is a man who set up a university and charged people thousands of dollars in tuition for nothing close to such a claim of education. Hence the lawsuit.

 

He has repeatedly been shown up as misogynist. And his language towards hispanics has fueled growing racial tension. The Daily Beast attended a pro-Trump lobby last weekend where they greated news of his win by raising their arms in a Nazi salute. Now he has not endorsed the latters use of a Nazi salute but they are emboldened by his rhetoric.

 

Trump may well end up a successful president but he is certainly no saint in comparison to his predecessors.

 

And on the murderous empire building... he's called for water boarding, rendition and torture, all out war of all military means against ISIS, the seizure of Iraqi Oil, tearing up peace deals with Iran and targetting the civilian relatives of terrorists... some of those breach the UN Charter, some the Geneva Conventions and all the basic decency of man. I do not recall Clinton calling for the death of Milosovic's family during the Balkan crisis. Nor even George H. W. Bush calling for the use of torture against Iraqi troops in the Gulf War.

 

Each to their own, but I don't think you can say Trump is anyway better than his Democratic predecessors.

 

Explain the recent brutality regards the fracking with obama saying lets see how it plays out.

Explain clinton links to child trafficking and admonishment of child abuse.

Explain the misogyny of kennedy and clinton.

 

Explain the warmongering of every american president.

[Peebo]

Explain the recent brutality regards the fracking with obama saying lets see how it plays out.

Explain clinton links to child trafficking and admonishment of child abuse.

Explain the misogyny of kennedy and clinton.

 

Explain the warmongering of every american president.

Obama warmongering?!?

[Maple Leaf]

Obama warmongering?!?

Or Jimmy Carter?

[niblick1874]

These scumbags really are woried. Everywhere I look they are pulling out all the stops. Even on here. All these people Trump has/is going to murdered?

 

What? What more shite are people going to try and sneak in there? 

 

They still have power over everything but I think it is dawning on them that there are a lot more Americans that know what they are than they were bargaining for.

 

They think they can manipulate Trump. We will see.

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by niblick1874

[Ulysses]

 

[Maple Leaf]

 

Come on, America:

 

Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.  

[Seymour M Hersh]

Come on, America:

 

Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.  

 

Do you really want a few dozen left wing lovie actors who think what they say is the bee all and end all? 

[Sidelight]

Come on, America:

 

Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.  

No, it seems that Barry has decided to stay on in Washington after he leaves office.

On the other hand he may return to his homeland.

[aussieh]

No, it seems that Barry has decided to stay on in Washington after he leaves office.

On the other hand he may return to his homeland.

STFU

[Sharpie]

Do you really want a few dozen left wing lovie actors who think what they say is the bee all and end all? 

 

Being a Hearts supporting, Canadian resident living in Canada and a Citizen, free of injury and illness I say welcome.  

[niblick1874]

These scumbags really are woried. Everywhere I look they are pulling out all the stops. Even on here. All these people Trump has/is going to murdered?

 

What? What more shite are people going to try and sneak in there? 

 

They still have power over everything but I think it is dawning on them that there are a lot more Americans that know what they are than they were bargaining for.

 

They think they can manipulate Trump. We will see.

 

Where was I, oh yes, pulling out all the stops.

 

The leader of the green party Jill Stein has asked the American people to donate money so she can challenge the votes in Wisconsin Pennsylvania and Michigan, Three states that Trump narrowly won. This has come about because some "experts" have said there are anomalies in the election results that have shown up in their analyses of the electronics within the computers used in these three states. She has raised way more for this than her party raised for their election campaign, More than 5 million so far. There are three States that were closer in voting than Pennsylvania that are not being contested by Jill Stein but they were all won by Clinton. They are saying their suspicion is that it was the Russians steeling the election from Clinton.

 

One way or another these people will do whatever it takes to get what they want and they see the American people along with the rest of the human race as cannon fodder to be manipulated.

 

As I have said from the beginning. They will take America down before giving up power. Everything was under control until Trump won, but for them, they still think all the old tricks will work even though a lot more can see them.  

 

If you think some streets in America are a no go zone now, wait till you see what happens if they pull this of. If they don't it will be over to Soros and his ilk to implement plan c.

 

We are now in the rabbit hole. Have a good look around and while you are at it, look down.

Edited November 26, 2016 by niblick1874

[aussieh]

Who fecking quotes themselves unless you've made a James hunt of it.

[Ulysses]

[Unknown user]

Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

[niblick1874]

Who fecking quotes themselves unless you've made a James hunt of it.

It's called reiterating, which means to emphasis the point that has already been made, of which you have proven, once again, you know nothing about. Prove me wrong. Discuss the subject of my post you replied to and stop coming across as a cowered.

[Notts1874]

Can we not just give Nibs and ML their own private forum?

 

Saves the rest of us ignoring their posts.

[Peebo]

Recount efforts building momentum.

 

I reserve the right to resurrect my "unelectable" insistences if they are successful.

[Notts1874]

I am the only one bringing this up which is very much to do with this thread as well as being a big deal and your input is this.

 

You are out and out advocating the banishment of free speech and I am calling you out on it you ****

Bit rude swearing isn't it?

 

Anyway I didn't deny you free speech. I just suggested your nonsense was given a dedicated thread we could all ignore.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Bit rude swearing isn't it?

 

Anyway I didn't deny you free speech. I just suggested your nonsense was given a dedicated thread we could all ignore.

Let me guess. Niblick is demanding someone engage with him off some nonsense he watched on YouTube? He should be careful what he wishes for as someone does eventually take the bait, show him up for believing bullshit and then he disappears for a while.

[Notts1874]

Let me guess. Niblick is demanding someone engage with him off some nonsense he watched on YouTube? He should be careful what he wishes for as someone does eventually take the bait, show him up for believing bullshit and then he disappears for a while.

Yep just about got it in one Geoff.

 

I remember when the Shed was fun rather than a hotbed of politically biased folk.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Recount efforts building momentum.

I reserve the right to resurrect my "unelectable" insistences if they are successful.

Stop it.

[Peebo]

Stop it.

Stop what?

[Sidelight]

STFU

 

Dear aussieh,

I don?t really appreciate your use of guttersnipe language directed towards me.

Your comment although lacking in thought and originality, creates the impression, (for me anyway) that it was penned by a character personality who could be best described as an uncouth, loud mouthed, flatulent huddy. Of course that?s just a perception. 

Please keep your distasteful and unpolished roughness to yourself.

With thanks,

alfajambo

 

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by alfajambo

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Stop what?

Stop getting certain people's hopes up.

Wasn't Hillary disgusted during the third debate when Trump wouldnt give a straight up answer about accepting the election results after the votes were counted.

Changed her tune now.

[Peebo]

Stop getting certain people's hopes up.

Wasn't Hillary disgusted during the third debate when Trump wouldnt give a straight up answer about accepting the election results after the votes were counted.

Changed her tune now.

I'd be surprised if anyone's US presidential election hopes are in any way related to anything I post on here!

[Don Draper]

Trump is now declaring he won the popular vote against the "millions of illegal votes" racked up by Clinton. He won't accept the legitimacy of an election he actually won.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/307622-trump-i-would-have-won-popular-vote-if-people-had-not-voted-illegally

 

What an absolute roaster.  

[Watt-Zeefuik]

 

Dear aussieh,

I don?t really appreciate your use of guttersnipe language directed towards me.

Your comment although lacking in thought and originality, creates the impression, (for me anyway) that it was penned by a character personality who could be best described as an uncouth, loud mouthed, flatulent huddy. Of course that?s just a perception. 

Please keep your distasteful and unpolished roughness to yourself.

With thanks,

alfajambo

 

 

 

 

Alfa, the implication that Obama was not born in the US is ridiculous, hateful, and racist.  It's beneath you.  That's why you got the profane reaction you did, which frankly was fairly well deserved.

 

As to the rest, I'm about ready to sign off on this thread.  Trump is now tweeting that he thinks millions of the votes for Clinton were illegal.  We now have people actually admitting to working a for-profit fake news on social media scheme that supported anti-Clinton memes, and Trump is openly using his office to promote his business interests around the world and refusing to apologize for it or set up standards for conflict of interest.

 

I would say anyone with a pulse and a sense of decency should be horrified by this, but I also would have thought anyone with a pulse and a sense of decency would have been horrified months ago.

 

To those in the US, a belated happy Thanksgiving.