US Elections 2016

[Nookie Bear]

So the show was disrupted as a direct result of the cast deciding it was appropriate to make a political statement from the stage, and provoking a response.

 

I think the display of luvvie and pop star and "celebrity" endorsements of Hillary in the last few days of the campaign probably helped Trump over the line. Why do these people think their opinions are worth more than anyone elses?

 

And the luvvie liberals then have a problem when social media gets stuck into them.

 

Yanks not getting irony again?

[i8hibsh]

Didn't Cumberbatch do something similar in London - lecturing the audience in mid-performanve about refugees or whatever.

 

I'd have asked for my money back in both cases.

The bellend sure did.

[Tazio]

The disruption the following night would not have happened but for the reading of the statement the previous night.

But there was no disruption on the night of the statement which was what your original post was about.

[Nookie Bear]

What the cast member said:

 

 

 

This was read out after the show finished so the performance was not interrupted. Quite how anyone can have any problem with this is beyond me, particularly when you consider some of the things that Pence has come out with in the past.

 

The actual statementis not too bad and appears quite thoughtful, but I just wonder if it was appropriate to do it directly to someone who was there as a customer rather than on official business? (assuming that's why he was there)

 

I would not dream of directly addressing anyone like that, unless they were there on business or initiated the discussion themselves.

[doctor jambo]

 

But there was no disruption on the night of the statement which was what your original post was about.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[doctor jambo]

Who says that they think that?

 

They/he, had an opportunity to speak to the VP elect, and they used that.

 

It's a bit like lobbying, really.  But how often does an actor get the opportunity?

Far too often.

How many of these thespians are UN ambassadors....

Jolie, Emma Watson, Paltrow. Cheryl Cole. Lilly Cole

How many plumbers are UN ambassadors?

Or nurses?

And just to set off the bomb-------Bono and Geldof

[Sharpie]

I watched the actor being interviewed this morning he came over very well. When asked if he thought it was appropriate to bring politics into the theatre, he laughed and asked what do you think the show is about.  He also stated that the cast at the end of the show do make comments on issues and pleas for donations to certain charities.  Pence has made a statement that he had no problem with the issue. 

 

I watched Saturday Night Live and Baldwin was on with his Trump character, it was hilarious, but it is theatre of a type, and TV seems to be a place for talk show hosts and others to make political statements, I guess I could say if I want political statements I will go to the mass news media.

 

Of course what I can do to get away from U.S. politics is join a Scottish football forum then it wouldn't be a problem.

[Bindy Badgy]

The actual statementis not too bad and appears quite thoughtful, but I just wonder if it was appropriate to do it directly to someone who was there as a customer rather than on official business? (assuming that's why he was there)

 

I would not dream of directly addressing anyone like that, unless they were there on business or initiated the discussion themselves.

 

Fair point. My attitude is probably being coloured somewhat by the bile that has come out of both Trump's and Pence's mouths. For Trump to start going on about safe places and to demand an apology is unbelievably rich. Or course, the fact that they're arseholes shouldn't have an impact on the situation.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Stokesy

[Francis Albert]

But there was no disruption on the night of the statement which was what your original post was about.

Well I had just moved on. Although in fact the statement at the curtain call and the booing of Pence might have disrupted my evening, which for me includes the immediate post show atmosphere.

Anyway if the cast hoped and believed that the performance and show might inspire Pence to do what they want him to do for diversity, for the planet, for their children and parents, not to mention their inalienable rights and American values (fat chance I'd say), why not let the show speak for itself?

Edited November 21, 2016 by Francis Albert

[Seymour M Hersh]

But there was no disruption on the night of the statement which was what your original post was about.

 

Why do these luvie fukwits feel what "they" have to say is sooo important? So far up their own arses they can see their teeth. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Far too often.

How many of these thespians are UN ambassadors....

Jolie, Emma Watson, Paltrow. Cheryl Cole. Lilly Cole

How many plumbers are UN ambassadors?

Or nurses?

And just to set off the bomb-------Bono and Geldof

 

Cheryl Cole! Cheryl fukkin Cole. What's she an ambassador for?  Downtrodden/beaten cloakroom worker per-chance?

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Why do these luvie fukwits feel what "they" have to say is sooo important? So far up their own arses they can see their teeth.

 

  

Cheryl Cole! Cheryl fukkin Cole. What's she an ambassador for?  Downtrodden/beaten cloakroom worker per-chance?

That's a bit hersh.

[Seymour M Hersh]

   That's a bit hersh.

 

Why? She got done for verbally and physically abusing a nightclub cloakroom worker. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Seymour M Hersh

[J.T.F.Robertson]

"Whoosh!", Seymour M Hersh.

[Ulysses]

Wait, people are flipping out because a town stopped calling the holidays Good Friday and Columbus Day?

 

 

 

We were promised it would never happen again.

 

But it did.

 

Why can't y'all just make America grate again?

 

 

[niblick1874]

Both are true. I'd say look this one up but you've clearly not taken the time to see what that despicable organisation have done to Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali so here is a link:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/san-francisco-teachers-union-offers-anti-trump-lesson-43586647

Whether we would agree on the who and why or not, I doff my hat to you for persistently bringing this to the attention to those on here in all its many facets. You are not alone and the people that distract from your point with the trivial stick out like a sore thumb to those that can see past their deflection.    

[Bridge of Djoum]

Trump claiming he will do away with TPP on his 1st day in office.

 

Interesting.

[niblick1874]

Trump claiming he will do away with TPP on his 1st day in office.

 

Interesting.

Interesting? Do tell.

Edited November 22, 2016 by niblick1874

[Bridge of Djoum]

Interesting? Do tell.

No, I'm done entering into any dialogue with you.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

It is not about that. As you know UA there is no love lost with me and religion so Good Friday could be called Beardy Myth Day to all I care but the fact after centuries we are changing it just to keep Muslims happy is another nail in the coffin that was the way of our lives. Yes, I said Muslims as let us not pretend, it is for their benefit. This one way street of ass raping must end. It us getting quite pathetic. It seems that we wll not stop at anything to keep them happy. They secretly must be laughing at us.

No it ****ing isn't.  I haven't had a Good Friday holiday called "Good Friday" at school or at work or anywhere in my entire 40 year life.  Do you know who got it that way?  Jews and atheists and secular Christians like me.  Get your head out of your *******.

 

FWIW, I haven't once heard any of my Muslim friends say anything about religiously named holidays.  What do your Muslim friends say?

 

 

Both are true. I'd say look this one up but you've clearly not taken the time to see what that despicable organisation have done to Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali so here is a link:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/san-francisco-teachers-union-offers-anti-trump-lesson-43586647

 

No, actually both are false.  If you read your own link, you might see it was the teacher's union which sent that around, not the district.  Imagine a union being involved in political activities!

 

And I can find nothing indicating that the SPLC maintains a death list.  It's an incredible and extraordinary claim.  Yes, they added Nawaz and Hirsi Ali to an Anti-Muslim list for both declaring, ridiculously, that "we are at war with Islam."  I think that's a bit much and uncalled for, but it's a long, long, long way from a "death list" and if you can't tell the difference....

[Francis Albert]

No it ******* isn't.  I haven't had a Good Friday holiday called "Good Friday" at school or at work or anywhere in my entire 40 year life.  Do you know who got it that way?  Jews and atheists and secular Christians like me.  Get your head out of your *******.

 

FWIW, I haven't once heard any of my Muslim friends say anything about religiously named holidays.  What do your Muslim friends say?

 

 

 

No, actually both are false.  If you read your own link, you might see it was the teacher's union which sent that around, not the district.  Imagine a union being involved in political activities!

 

And I can find nothing indicating that the SPLC maintains a death list.  It's an incredible and extraordinary claim.  Yes, they added Nawaz and Hirsi Ali to an Anti-Muslim list for both declaring, ridiculously, that "we are at war with Islam."  I think that's a bit much and uncalled for, but it's a long, long, long way from a "death list" and if you can't tell the difference....

What is a Good Friday holiday called then in the land of the free?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

What is a Good Friday holiday called then in the land of the free?

 

If there is a holiday, which there isn't always, it's often just called a "spring holiday" or something.  We call it Good Friday colloquially, of course, but on official documents it's usually just something non-specific.

 

The notion that anyone should feel oppressed by that is insane.  Never once have I been at Stations of the Cross and thought, "you know, the problem with this is that when they gave me the day off, they didn't call it by the right name..."

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Growing up in the heavily Protestant south we often had Easter Monday off instead of Friday.  Which stopped being called "Easter Monday" when I was like 7 years old.  I think some televangelists may have made a fuss because they needed something to talk about that week, but it blew over quickly.

[niblick1874]

Did I just hear Berny Sanders say if Trump has the guts to stand up to the multinationals he has a friend in me? Hmm,

 

 

Yes, your point?

 

Bernie, (not Berny) has always said he'd try take on Wall Street. Supporting, to some extent someone who has the same principle, in theory at least so far, seems logical.

 

You really shouldn't try dig deeper for some other agenda driven meaning, it's not there. 

 

 

If that's the case, why did he not only back Clinton who was backed to the hilt by wall street and that after leaving Clinton nameless before the nomination was stolen from him by his own party?

 

You can see what you want but that's not much going by your reply to my post.

You come on, take a dig, I give an answer  then you run away

 

Trump claiming he will do away with TPP on his 1st day in office.

 

Interesting.

 

 

Interesting? Do tell.

 

 

No, I'm done entering into any dialogue with you.

 

You are full of it.

Edited November 22, 2016 by niblick1874

[Peebo]

What is a Good Friday holiday called then in the land of the free?

It's not an official holiday (i.e. not a Federal holiday). It is observed in some states, though - e.g. Schools, civil service etc..

[Riddley Walker]

I'm failing to see what the re-naming of Goof Friday or Columbus Day has to do with Islam. Some of you guys are obsessed.

[Seymour M Hersh]

"Whoosh!", Seymour M Hersh.

 

Ha ha. I did see that after I'd posted my response but couldn't be arsed changing it. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Growing up in the heavily Protestant south we often had Easter Monday off instead of Friday.  Which stopped being called "Easter Monday" when I was like 7 years old.  I think some televangelists may have made a fuss because they needed something to talk about that week, but it blew over quickly.

 

The USA is still a (massively) Christian country is it not? Why then do they continue to feel the need to hide this? Used to be Merry Christmas now it's "Happy Holidays" and now this. It's another PC erosion of the US culture. And I'm in no way religious.  You see it in this country al the time when "right on" councils stop doing the traditional things, usually at Christmas time so as to avoid offending Muslims.  Who just happen to be the most easily offended people/religion in the world (even more so than celtic fans and that's saying something).

[Bindy Badgy]

Has anyone here ever come across a Muslim who gives a crap about what we call our holidays? The staff in my local corner shop always wear stupid Santa hats at Christmas. They're grateful for the fact that all the other shops close as it gives them lots of extra business. 

 

There's certainly a lot of nonsense in the media about those pesky brown people demanding that we change the name of our holidays but I've yet to see any evidence of them caring. There was a derogatory article in the Daily Mail (surprise, surprise) a while back about changing the name of Christmas because of Muslims. Turned out the inspiration for the piece was an internal memo asking council staff to be sensitive of other people's religious beliefs. It could have applied to countless other religions but Islam was the only religion singled out in the Mail's article.

[Nookie Bear]

Fair point. My attitude is probably being coloured somewhat by the bile that has come out of both Trump's and Pence's mouths. For Trump to start going on about safe places and to demand an apology is unbelievably rich. Or course, the fact that they're arseholes shouldn't have an impact on the situation.

 

Absolutely, Trump especially has mouthed off at all sortsof people in very crude terms so deserves the next four years of slagging, quite frankly.

[Sidelight]

The USA is still a (massively) Christian country is it not? Why then do they continue to feel the need to hide this? Used to be Merry Christmas now it's "Happy Holidays" and now this. It's another PC erosion of the US culture. And I'm in no way religious.  You see it in this country al the time when "right on" councils stop doing the traditional things, usually at Christmas time so as to avoid offending Muslims.  Who just happen to be the most easily offended people/religion in the world (even more so than celtic fans and that's saying something).

 

In a world where truth can be anything you want it to be, why so surprised at the constant erosion of Britain and America?s Judeo-Christian culture? Your footer sums up perfectly the confused and forced truth that is our own, when it comes to the understanding of God?s written word. "Fabricators of fantasy and delusion since? "

It?s also worth noting that not all church members are Christians ? UA by his own admission, describing himself as a ?secular Christian? is an example from our experience. Having said that I know not the state of his heart or content of his mind.

 

The passage from the Bible quoted below rings true for the days in which we live, the state of our nations and many of our churches.

 

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.   

2 Timothy 3?

Edited November 22, 2016 by alfajambo

[Francis Albert]

Has anyone here ever come across a Muslim who gives a crap about what we call our holidays? The staff in my local corner shop always wear stupid Santa hats at Christmas. They're grateful for the fact that all the other shops close as it gives them lots of extra business. 

 

There's certainly a lot of nonsense in the media about those pesky brown people demanding that we change the name of our holidays but I've yet to see any evidence of them caring. There was a derogatory article in the Daily Mail (surprise, surprise) a while back about changing the name of Christmas because of Muslims. Turned out the inspiration for the piece was an internal memo asking council staff to be sensitive of other people's religious beliefs. It could have applied to countless other religions but Islam was the only religion singled out in the Mail's article.

I haven't. Used to work with lots of Muslims near Heathrow, and they were quite happy to join in Secret Santa and go out for the staff Christmas lunch.

 

The issue is not with Muslims. It's people who are over afraid of offending Muslims and others to the extent of changing or disguising Christian events and symbols. Thus Happy Hoidays instead of Merry Christmas, originally about not offending (or including) Jews. Though the likes of Irving Berlin didn't have too much angst over Merry Christmas.

 

Muslims themselves are not afraid of being open and of advertising their religion.

 

 I have no religion, but I still like the Calendar being sprinkled with old familiar Christian festivals I grew up with. Certainly better than the celebration of the increasingly high profile Black Friday.

 

Incidentally I notice that Good Friday is now classed as a public holiday in Scotland. I am sure it wasn't when I was growing up. Has that changed recently? (Sorry I think I am confusing it with Easter Monday)

Edited November 22, 2016 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

No it ******* isn't.  I haven't had a Good Friday holiday called "Good Friday" at school or at work or anywhere in my entire 40 year life.  Do you know who got it that way?  Jews and atheists and secular Christians like me.  Get your head out of your *******.

 

FWIW, I haven't once heard any of my Muslim friends say anything about religiously named holidays.  What do your Muslim friends say?

 

 

 

I know American and English are different languages but what is a "secular Christian"?

[Peebo]

The USA is still a (massively) Christian country is it not? Why then do they continue to feel the need to hide this? Used to be Merry Christmas now it's "Happy Holidays" and now this. It's another PC erosion of the US culture. And I'm in no way religious. You see it in this country al the time when "right on" councils stop doing the traditional things, usually at Christmas time so as to avoid offending Muslims. Who just happen to be the most easily offended people/religion in the world (even more so than celtic fans and that's saying something).

I think "Happy Holidays" comes largely from the fact the US begins its very long "holiday" period now starting with Thanksgiving which really is totally non-religious, and lasting through new year. Christmas, of course, falls in that period and remains a major "holiday". Hanukkah also falls in that "holiday" period.

 

I'm not sure the avoidance of offending Muslimoids ever really came into it.

[Peebo]

I haven't. Used to work with lots of Muslims near Heathrow, and they were quite happy to join in Secret Santa and go out for the staff Christmas lunch.

 

The issue is not with Muslims. It's people who are over afraid of offending Muslims and others to the extent of changing or disguising Christian events and symbols. Thus Happy Hoidays instead of Merry Christmas, originally about not offending (or including) Jews. Though the likes of Irving Berlin didn't have too much angst over Merry Christmas.

 

Muslims themselves are not afraid of being open and of advertising their religion.

 

I have no religion, but I still like the Calendar being sprinkled with old familiar Christian festivals I grew up with. Certainly better than the celebration of the increasingly high profile Black Friday.

 

Incidentally I notice that Good Friday is now classed as a public holiday in Scotland. I am sure it wasn't when I was growing up. Has that changed recently? (Sorry I think I am confusing it with Easter Monday)

Good Friday and Easter Monday are English bank holidays. In recent years, Scotland has adopted English bank holidays as its "official" holidays.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Has anyone here ever come across a Muslim who gives a crap about what we call our holidays? The staff in my local corner shop always wear stupid Santa hats at Christmas. They're grateful for the fact that all the other shops close as it gives them lots of extra business.

 

There's certainly a lot of nonsense in the media about those pesky brown people demanding that we change the name of our holidays but I've yet to see any evidence of them caring. There was a derogatory article in the Daily Mail (surprise, surprise) a while back about changing the name of Christmas because of Muslims. Turned out the inspiration for the piece was an internal memo asking council staff to be sensitive of other people's religious beliefs. It could have applied to countless other religions but Islam was the only religion singled out in the Mail's article.

This, ive yet to meet a single Muslim offended by Christian holidays or celebrations in the slightest. Christ I even have a friend at work that buys his daughter Christmas presents and Easter eggs etc as that's what people 'do here'.

Any 'offence' I've heard is generally from easily offended aetheists or even Christians on their behalf paranoid about the reactions of others.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The USA is still a (massively) Christian country is it not? Why then do they continue to feel the need to hide this? Used to be Merry Christmas now it's "Happy Holidays" and now this. It's another PC erosion of the US culture. And I'm in no way religious.  You see it in this country al the time when "right on" councils stop doing the traditional things, usually at Christmas time so as to avoid offending Muslims.  Who just happen to be the most easily offended people/religion in the world (even more so than celtic fans and that's saying something).

 

Because religious liberty is a founding principle in this country.  It's as simple and unmovable as that.

 

I. Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishment or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was his Almighty power to do . . .

 

II. Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

 

III. Future assemblies that choose to repeal or circumscribe the act do so at their own peril, because this is "an infringement of natural right." 

--Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom, authored by Thomas Jefferson

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." --First Amendment to the US Constitution, part of the Bill of Rights

 

And again, I know a lot of Muslims, and I have never once met one who was offended by the name of a holiday.  I have, however, met plenty of conservative Christians who seem to get the vapors any time they have to be reminded that not everyone around them is a Christian.  And now, for the first time, I've met people who will in one breath tell me how stupid and ignorant I am for being a practicing Christian but then also get furious that Christianity is being undermined.  I have to say, this is a whole new and exciting level of preciousness for me.

 

 What I mean by "secular Christian" is the firm belief that one can be fully invested in ones religion (mine being American Presbyterianism) and still live in a pluralistic society.  Others like Martin Luther King, Jr. or Dietrich Bonhoeffer or Albert Schweitzer similarly self-identified as secular Christian.

 

We don't need or want the state to be involved in the Church -- it's bad for the state and it's bad for the church. 

 

I'm failing to see what the re-naming of Goof Friday or Columbus Day has to do with Islam. Some of you guys are obsessed.

 

Yes, and to bring it back to the actual topic at hand, one of Trump's advisors has now said, "Islam is a cancer."  Which isn't that far off from the Nazis going around saying that Jews were like tuberculosis in the early days of their reign in Germany.  (No, I'm not saying Trump is Hitler, despite this terrifying bullshit from some of his supporters: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/)

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Also, anyone who thinks it's Muslims who were offended by Columbus Day isn't paying attention.  It has always been Native groups (and those of us who think that a guy who thought killing natives was fun shouldn't have a holiday) that have called for that.

 

This is a useful intro.

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Also, anyone who thinks it's Muslims who were offended by Columbus Day isn't paying attention.  It has always been Native groups (and those of us who think that a guy who thought killing natives was fun shouldn't have a holiday) that have called for that.

 

This is a useful intro.

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

Do you have any videos or photographs of the things mentioned in the attachment from 600 years ago? Or at least an eye witness to it.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Do you have any videos or photographs of the things mentioned in the attachment from 600 years ago? Or at least an eye witness to it.

 

Poor attempt at trolling.  Try harder.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Poor attempt at trolling.  Try harder.

Is that a no then on the videos/photographs?

You've posted some real guff on here this past 2 months.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Is that a no then on the videos/photographs?

You've posted some real guff on here this past 2 months.

 

The "real guff" I've posted on here where you have triumphantly caught me at "lying:"

 

My claim:I claimed that the wife of Keith Scott had told police that here husband had a traumatic brain injury before they shot him.  

Fact: She had said, "he's not going to hurt you" before they shot him, because there was so little time.  After the shot, she told them he had a traumatic brain injury.  Boy, what a howler!

 

My claim: I claimed that the FBI had reported an uptick in hate crimes since the election had ended.

Fact: The SPLC had reported an uptick in hate crimes since the election had ended, and the FBI had confirmed the SPLC's earlier report of an uptick in hate crimes since July.  You really caught me there!

 

My claim: I said you responded with "all lies."

Fact: You responded with "more lies."

I can't believe I show my face around here anymore.

 

In the meantime, elvoys has claimed that the SPLC now maintains a death list and that the office of the San Francisco school system was distributing anti-Trump talking points.

[Maple Leaf]

Do you have any videos or photographs of the things mentioned in the attachment from 600 years ago? Or at least an eye witness to it.

I know that you're not serious with that question.  

 

What I am curious about is whether you doubt the negative effect on indigenous people in North America, as a result of the arrival of Europeans.  To describe it as a calamity would not be an overstatement.

 

And it started with Columbus, who was harsh, to see the least.  That is generally accepted as historical fact.  You could say that Columbus set the tone, although the ensuing genocide can't be all laid at his feet.

[Seymour M Hersh]

 

Because religious liberty is a founding principle in this country.  It's as simple and unmovable as that.

 

 

And how is dropping Christmas in favour of a generalist term to describe the period "religious liberty"?

[Seymour M Hersh]

The "real guff" I've posted on here where you have triumphantly caught me at "lying:"

 

My claim:I claimed that the wife of Keith Scott had told police that here husband had a traumatic brain injury before they shot him.  

Fact: She had said, "he's not going to hurt you" before they shot him, because there was so little time.  After the shot, she told them he had a traumatic brain injury.  Boy, what a howler!

 

My claim: I claimed that the FBI had reported an uptick in hate crimes since the election had ended.

Fact: The SPLC had reported an uptick in hate crimes since the election had ended, and the FBI had confirmed the SPLC's earlier report of an uptick in hate crimes since July.  You really caught me there!

 

My claim: I said you responded with "all lies."

Fact: You responded with "more lies."

I can't believe I show my face around here anymore.

 

In the meantime, elvoys has claimed that the SPLC now maintains a death list and that the office of the San Francisco school system was distributing anti-Trump talking points.

 

I'll take a wild guess at this is the only message board you've not been emptied from. 

[Riddley Walker]

I'll take a wild guess at this is the only message board you've not been emptied from.

UA certainly doesn't need anyone to defend him but what has he done wrong apart from having a different viewpoint from you? He's been spot-on for most of this thread as well.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

I know that you're not serious with that question.  

 

What I am curious about is whether you doubt the negative effect on indigenous people in North America, as a result of the arrival of Europeans.  To describe it as a calamity would not be an overstatement.

 

And it started with Columbus, who was harsh, to see the least.  That is generally accepted as historical fact.  You could say that Columbus set the tone, although the ensuing genocide can't be all laid at his feet.

I could not or would not try to ever down play the negative effect that these raiders, invaders, marauders or any other name you'd give to this type of event in mans history had on the people involved. Not only in North America though. World history is fraught with this type of behavior. What was posted was just stupid and mostly made up conjecture by the original writer.  

[Seymour M Hersh]

UA certainly doesn't need anyone to defend him but what has he done wrong apart from having a different viewpoint from you? He's been spot-on for most of this thread as well.

 

Except for the really important thing. The result. And it was pretty much tongue in cheek so settle petal.

[JamboX2]

Anyone see Jon Snow give up interviewing the Trump supporting journalist? Claimed it was lag. Hit me that he gave up. She refused to distinguish herself as journalist and Trump not engaging with journalists in general.

 

And today's intervention on the Brexit and suggesting Farage be the UK ambassador are bloody disgraceful.

 

The man is the ruin of the West.

[Riddley Walker]

Except for the really important thing. The result. And it was pretty much tongue in cheek so settle petal.

See you later alligator.