US Elections 2016

[Nookie Bear]

Im struggling to think of a "no go area" anywhere in Scotland. Yet another argument why us up here and down there diverge different year by year.

 

The left do have a choice, it's called Corbyn now, shame he's vilified by the MSM and the uneducated idiots on social media as this person who is an IRA sympathiser and a clown. The US had Saunders, someone who actually would have dine 10 times more than Trump.

I was talking more about the ("racist") English, where mass immigration is much more prevelant.

 

Aye, as if Corbyn will be able to reach out to them. Too busy focusing on Israel...like the average Joe gives a toss about that.

 

"Uneducated idiots" is a new one though. You're such a Tory!

[John Findlay]

Jeeeeeez, I'll spell it out, the ultra right have hoodwinked the working class (and middle class) in to so much to say that immigration is the root cause. The fact is it's big business, banks and the capitalist financial model that's causing it, the very drinking best buddies pals of Farage and Trump.

 

Theresa Mays husband is a hedge fund manager FFS

No offence but the Labour Party in Britain have been doing that for the last 50 years.

[Space Mackerel]

I was talking more about the ("racist") English, where mass immigration is much more prevelant.

Aye, as if Corbyn will be able to reach out to them. Too busy focusing on Israel...like the average Joe gives a toss about that.

"Uneducated idiots" is a new one though. You're such a Tory!

Tory? Me?

[niblick1874]

Im struggling to think of a "no go area" anywhere in Scotland. Yet another argument why us up here and down there diverge different year by year.

 

The left do have a choice, it's called Corbyn now, shame he's vilified by the MSM and the uneducated idiots on social media as this person who is an IRA sympathiser and a clown. The US had Saunders, someone who actually would have dine 10 times more than Trump.

Sanders was dry shafted by his own party in favor of Clinton. He knew that when he backed Clinton. He is as scummy as the rest of them and you know it.

[Adam Murray]

Tory? Me?

 

You were called out by a poster before over it, with a comment along the lines of, 'you were comfortable and couldn't give a crap about others'

[Space Mackerel]

You were called out by a poster before over it, with a comment along the lines of, 'you were comfortable and couldn't give a crap about others'

Proud to say I've never voted Tory in my puff, and you can take that to the bank.

[Boris]

But the average working class person, low-paid or unemployed and very little hope, cannot see the connection between their situation and Big Business. Yeah, they know bankers are ***** but they do not care about how it (apparently) is a system designed to keep them in their place.

No, they see no-go areas in their towns, they are told to accept more immigrants and be told it will "enrich" their lives and if you put your hand up to say NO...racist.

The left have stopped reaching out to the very people it had to help from a generation of post-Thatcher policies. In fact, the left despise these people now.

It's no wonder they listen to Farage.

Except it isn't the left!

[pablo]

Except it isn't the left!

So where are the 'left' hiding?

[Unknown user]

So where are the 'left' hiding?

On the left, where they've always been, it's just that Left now seems to mean anything left of strong Right.

 

I swear that made sense

[pablo]

On the left, where they've always been, it's just that Left now seems to mean anything left of strong Right.

 

I swear that made sense

But, not out offering an alternative to Trump and Brexit for all these disaffected people. Or at least not very effectively. Edited November 14, 2016 by pablo

[Unknown user]

But, not out offering an alternative to Trump and Brexit for all these disaffected people. Or at least not very effectively.

Wait, are you talking about the Democrats and new labour or the actual left?

[pablo]

Wait, are you talking about the Democrats and new labour or the actual left?

The actual left.

[Maple Leaf]

 

Their fears are made up lies and based on no evidence at all. The "loony left" simply tries to call those lies out for what they are.

I don't know if we're still discussing the American election on this thread, or if that comment is a general observation.  However, it's worth noting that there is no "left" in American politics.  The Dems are just less right than the Republicans, who are well right and getting further right all the time.

[Ulysses]

If you have four pencils and I have seven apples, how many pancakes will fit on my roof? Purple, that's where, because aliens don't wear hats.

 

The secret of the universe is mirrored in the light of balance, just as the cosmos deconstructs barriers to enlightenment.

[Ulysses]

I don't know if we're still discussing the American election on this thread....

...or to what extent we ever were. Clinton blew it. She had a heavy stone to roll up a feckin' steep hill, it being "time for change" and all that, but the election was winnable because her opponent kept handing her chances. If she had been up against a more professional Republican she would have taken a pretty bad hammering in both the college and the popular vote, as far as I can see.

[elvoys]

But the average working class person, low-paid or unemployed and very little hope, cannot see the connection between their situation and Big Business. Yeah, they know bankers are ***** but they do not care about how it (apparently) is a system designed to keep them in their place.

 

No, they see no-go areas in their towns, they are told to accept more immigrants and be told it will "enrich" their lives and if you put your hand up to say NO...racist.

 

The left have stopped reaching out to the very people it had to help from a generation of post-Thatcher policies. In fact, the left despise these people now.

 

It's no wonder they listen to Farage.

As evidenced by fact UKIP got significantly more GE votes than Lib Dems and SNP combined yet BBC give much higher profile to leader of a latter who reps a parliament relevant to only 12th of the pop.

 

Tbf this is more a mindset of the mainstream latte drinking urban educated liberal and Corbyn seems to recognise this. But at the same I can't see him making serious inroads whilst he holds onto the notion that anti immigration sentiment is 100% a symptom of post industrial isolation and not an expression of identity (ala Scots nationalism) in itself.

 

Douglas Murray's piece in Foreign affairs is outstanding on understanding this year. Would disagree with his final sentence mind you.

 

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2016-11-10/brexit-trump

[Watt-Zeefuik]

For those debating whether Bannon is an anti-Semite or not, the primary anti-Semitism watch group, the Anti-Defamation League, has condemned the nomination and called for it to be rescinded.  The same statement praises the appointment of political hack Reince Preibus, so it's clearly not just a political hit job.

 

http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/miscellaneous/adl-statement-trump-appointment-priebus-bannon.html

 

Meanwhile, Trump is trying to figure out how he can stay in his home at Trump Tower rather than move to the White House, and during the tour last week Trump was surprised that the entire West Wing staff had to be replaced.  (In other words, Trump knows less about the operation of the Executive than someone who's watched one season of the West Wing.) http://www.wsj.com/articles/leading-contender-for-donald-trump-s-chief-of-staff-is-rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-1479069597

 

Further, Trump has decided that his kids are going to run his businesses.  However, they're also on the transition team and he's asked for security clearances for them.  Giuliani has defended Trump for allowing his kids to keep the businesses, saying otherwise "they'd be out of a job."

 

Thank goodness Clinton didn't win though. She might be setting up an email server at this very moment.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Oh, and the surge in hate crimes since the election has now been confirmed by the FBI: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?smid=tw-share

[elvoys]

For those debating whether Bannon is an anti-Semite or not, the primary anti-Semitism watch group, the Anti-Defamation League, has condemned the nomination and called for it to be rescinded.  The same statement praises the appointment of political hack Reince Preibus, so it's clearly not just a political hit job.

 

http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/miscellaneous/adl-statement-trump-appointment-priebus-bannon.html

 

Meanwhile, Trump is trying to figure out how he can stay in his home at Trump Tower rather than move to the White House, and during the tour last week Trump was surprised that the entire West Wing staff had to be replaced.  (In other words, Trump knows less about the operation of the Executive than someone who's watched one season of the West Wing.) http://www.wsj.com/articles/leading-contender-for-donald-trump-s-chief-of-staff-is-rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-1479069597

 

Further, Trump has decided that his kids are going to run his businesses.  However, they're also on the transition team and he's asked for security clearances for them.  Giuliani has defended Trump for allowing his kids to keep the businesses, saying otherwise "they'd be out of a job."

 

Thank goodness Clinton didn't win though. She might be setting up an email server at this very moment.

 

A bit of clarity here - to the SPLC and similar American leftist 'rights' goons this is the equation:

 

Conservative Jew = Anti-semite

Liberal, reformist Muslim = Anti Muslim extremist  (see the utter disgrace they have made of themselves with their hitlisting of Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali) 

 

They have managed to sell to the msm the conflation of  a guy who runs a news org run by conservative Jews who are blindingly pro Israel with the anti-Semitic, white  supremacist loons and internet losers who are part of the alt right. And the latter has clearly been given wind in its sails by Trumps rise and he has shamefully not called them out cos he is a narcissistic oaf who will take any votes he can get. But that is not the same thing as saying Bannon himself is the Grandmaster. It's not far off saying Hillary is a Muslim Brotherhood operative cos of Huma's family ties. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by elvoys

[elvoys]

Last post edit timed out: 

 

A bit of clarity here - to the SPLC and similar American leftist 'rights' groups this is the equation:

 

Conservative Jew = Anti-semite

Liberal, reformist Muslim = Anti Muslim extremist  (see the utter disgrace they have made of themselves with their hitlisting of Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali) 

 

Basically anyone who doesn't fit their rigid identity-politiced definition of what these minorities should be. It is as dull as calling Chomsky a self hating Jew cos Israel isn't his cup of tea. 

 

They have managed to sell to the msm the conflation of  a guy who runs a news org run by conservative Jews who are blindingly pro Israel with the anti-Semitic, white  supremacist loons and internet losers who are part of the alt right. And the latter has clearly been given wind in its sails by Trumps rise and he has shamefully not called them out cos he is a narcissistic oaf who will take any votes he can get. Likewise, Bannon and co haven't done enough to call them out and disassociate. But that is not the same thing as saying Bannon himself is the Grandmaster. Its not far from the notion that Obama's team were Muslim Brotherhood sympathisers and Huma is a operative cos of her family ties and the backgrounds of those that advised on his Cairo speech. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by elvoys

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The ADL is in no way shape or form a leftist organization.  

[elvoys]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiLD_wmUrDo

 

This would appear to be fairly balanced take from a Jewish guy who was ousted by Bannon at Breitbart and who was the most targeted Conservative by the online troll community during the election. Much more useful than using the reports of a rant he gave to his ex wife as the sum total of what needs to known about the guy.  

[Boris]

So where are the 'left' hiding?

 

Up their own arses, more than likely.

 

My point is more that what is being described as "the left" is really, or rather imo, liberal centrism.

[aussieh]

As evidenced by fact UKIP got significantly more GE votes than Lib Dems and SNP combined yet BBC give much higher profile to leader of a latter who reps a parliament relevant to only 12th of the pop.

 

Tbf this is more a mindset of the mainstream latte drinking urban educated liberal and Corbyn seems to recognise this. But at the same I can't see him making serious inroads whilst he holds onto the notion that anti immigration sentiment is 100% a symptom of post industrial isolation and not an expression of identity (ala Scots nationalism) in itself.

 

Douglas Murray's piece in Foreign affairs is outstanding on understanding this year. Would disagree with his final sentence mind you.

 

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2016-11-10/brexit-trump

Tell me again, how many seats did ukip stand at compared to the SNP?

 

 

And how many votes did ukip get in Scotland. Farage? No one listened him, if they did they'd elect him at wm. But they didn't, did they.

Edited November 15, 2016 by aussieh

[Space Mackerel]

Tell me again, how many seats did ukip stand at compared to the SNP?

And how many votes did ukip get in Scotland. Farage? No one listened him, if they did they'd elect him at wm. But they didn't, did they.

UKIP got a massive 1.6% of the Scottish vote at the GE 2015.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Oh, and the surge in hate crimes since the election has now been confirmed by the FBI: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?smid=tw-share

Oops more lies. Close but no coconut. Why do you continue to post this $#!t on here. You know what you're posting is not true but you like the drama of leaving it hanging out there. Hoping people don't read it verbatim. Sad.

[Francis Albert]

Oh, and the surge in hate crimes since the election has now been confirmed by the FBI: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?smid=tw-share

There is nothing in the article about a surge in hate crimes since the election. There was a "surge" last year consisting if an increase of 340 in reported cases in a total of about 5800, or an increase of one a day in a nation of 300 million. Some "surge". As in the case of post-Brexit I'd expect an increase in hate crimes and in particular the reporting of hate crimes given the vitriol of the campaign and its aftermath. How much is real and how much is just a higher profile and greater reporting of hate crime is and will remain unknown.

 

I am not sure how exaggerated talk about a "surge" helps anyone, except maybe to make perpetrators and  the racists to feel good. Oh, and I suppose make others even more affronted, if that were possible.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Francis Albert

[Seymour M Hersh]

Oh, and the surge in hate crimes since the election has now been confirmed by the FBI: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?smid=tw-share

 

So are the FBI trustworthy and the "good guys" again after being horrid nasty liars and the sole reason for Shillery's defeat?

Edited November 15, 2016 by Seymour M Hersh

[Francis Albert]

There is nothing in the article about a surge in hate crimes since the election. There was a "surge" last year consisting if an increase of 340 in reported cases in a total of about 5800, or an increase of one a day in a nation of 300 million. Some "surge". As in the case of post-Brexit I'd expect an increase in hate crimes and in particular the reporting of hate crimes given the vitriol of the campaign and its aftermath. How much is real and how much is just a higher profile and greater reporting of hate crime is and will remain unknown.

 

I am not sure how exaggerated talk about a "surge" helps anyone, except maybe to make perpetrators and  the racists to feel good. Oh, and I suppose make others even more affronted, if that were possible.

And just to put those numbers in perspective FBI figures for last year show 1.2 million violent crimes and over 15,000 murders in the US..

[Unknown user]

So are the FBI trustworthy and the "good guys" again after being horrid nasty liars and the sole reason for Shillery's defeat?

I really don't remember an entire organisation being branded horrid nasty liars and the sole reason for Hillary's defeat.

 

I remember headlines saying that Hillary had called the FBI liars but they're all from hysterical online right wing press, and I haven't found a single quote from anyone calling the FBI liars, or say that they were the sole reason for anything.

 

Have the FBI been accused of being untrustworthy?

[Francis Albert]

I really don't remember an entire organisation being branded horrid nasty liars and the sole reason for Hillary's defeat.

 

I remember headlines saying that Hillary had called the FBI liars but they're all from hysterical online right wing press, and I haven't found a single quote from anyone calling the FBI liars, or say that they were the sole reason for anything.

 

Have the FBI been accused of being untrustworthy?

In what must have a difficult call to her major donors Hillary blamed the FBI for turning a winning position into a defeat. Reported widely across the media including in hysterically right wing New York Times and the Guardian.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Francis Albert

[Unknown user]

In what must have a difficult call to her major donors Hillary blamed the FBI for turning a winning position into a defeat. Reported widely across the media including in hysterically right wing New York Times and the Guardian.

Quotes? I mean I know she has a problem with Comey, but not the organisation (which includes plenty of individuals opposed to what Comey did and how he did it), but where have the FBI been called liars, and by whom?

[Francis Albert]

Quotes? I mean I know she has a problem with Comey, but not the organisation (which includes plenty of individuals opposed to what Comey did and how he did it), but where have the FBI been called liars, and by whom?

I wasn't (quite obviously) responding to the liars accusation (though I think you'd be very na?ve if you think she didn't call Comey and the FBI much worse after the late intervention in the campaign) but the claim that she did not blame the FBI for her defeat. She clearly did and it is part of a pattern in which she has refused to admit any share of the blame for a quite disastrous campaign.

[John Findlay]

I wasn't (quite obviously) responding to the liars accusation (though I think you'd be very na?ve if you think she didn't call Comey and the FBI much worse after the late intervention in the campaign) but the claim that she did not blame the FBI for her defeat. She clearly did and it is part of a pattern in which she has refused to admit any share of the blame for a quite disastrous campaign.

She is just being a woman. Everyone is to blame bar her.

[Unknown user]

I wasn't (quite obviously) responding to the liars accusation (though I think you'd be very na?ve if you think she didn't call Comey and the FBI much worse after the late intervention in the campaign) but the claim that she did not blame the FBI for her defeat. She clearly did and it is part of a pattern in which she has refused to admit any share of the blame for a quite disastrous campaign.

She clearly blamed Comey.

 

I was (quite obviously) responding to a guy who was claiming that people who were calling the FBI liars are now calling them good guys.

Neither has actually happened to the best of my knowledge

[alwaysthereinspirit]

She clearly blamed Comey.

 

I was (quite obviously) responding to a guy who was claiming that people who were calling the FBI liars are now calling them good guys.

Neither has actually happened to the best of my knowledge

Post 2770 was a dig at people who ridiculed Comey when he reopened the Clinton email case a week before the elections. But because yesterdays FBI release of hate crimes fitted an agenda (wrongly) he now  wanted to know if the FBI are now to be seen as the bastion of all things truthful. Cake and eat it too. 

Seymours point was on the money.

[Francis Albert]

She clearly blamed Comey.

 

I was (quite obviously) responding to a guy who was claiming that people who were calling the FBI liars are now calling them good guys.

Neither has actually happened to the best of my knowledge

It wasn't obvious why you were quoting my post when I quite obviously was not saying anything about the liars accusation.

 

And this distinction between the Director of the FBI and the FBI? Maybe the FBI didn't do any of the very dubious things of the J Edgar Hoover era - it was all down to Hoover.

[Unknown user]

It wasn't obvious why you were quoting my post when I quite obviously was not saying anything about the liars accusation.

 

And this distinction between the Director of the FBI and the FBI? Maybe the FBI didn't do any of the very dubious things of the J Edgar Hoover era - it was all down to Hoover.

You can't see a difference between the actions of the FBI and the actions of the director of the FBI?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The most grounded accusations I've heard are that there were FBI agents hellbent on getting Clinton for something and that Comey was trying to keep a lid on them.

 

I think Comey absolutely impacted the outcome of the election, probably flipping it, but that's water under the bridge.

 

Dangerous time we're entering when dozens of local news sources, the SPLC, the FBI, the Anti-Defamation League, and watch groups from the left and right of the spectrum are saying that hate crimes are up and that they're extremely worried about a trend towards white nationalism in the White House, but ATIS is here saying, "all lies" because he doesn't like it and it doesn't make him feel good.  We have no basis for common facts any more.

[Francis Albert]

You can't see a difference between the actions of the FBI and the actions of the director of the FBI?

It seems to me a pretty new distinction.

[Francis Albert]

The most grounded accusations I've heard are that there were FBI agents hellbent on getting Clinton for something and that Comey was trying to keep a lid on them.

 

I think Comey absolutely impacted the outcome of the election, probably flipping it, but that's water under the bridge.

 

Dangerous time we're entering when dozens of local news sources, the SPLC, the FBI, the Anti-Defamation League, and watch groups from the left and right of the spectrum are saying that hate crimes are up and that they're extremely worried about a trend towards white nationalism in the White House, but ATIS is here saying, "all lies" because he doesn't like it and it doesn't make him feel good.  We have no basis for common facts any more.

Do you accept that what you posted earlier about the FBI reporting a surge in hate crime since the election was complete crap?

 

You post fiction, then complain that "we have no basis for common facts any more".

[niblick1874]

A very worthwhile read.

 

"I'm a Muslim, a woman and an immigrant. I voted for Trump".

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/11/10/im-a-muslim-a-woman-and-an-immigrant-i-voted-for-trump/?postshare=5571478804916292&tid=ss_tw

 

 

Yep, and it should be noted that it took just one WikiLeaks Email to put it all into perspective for her. She figured it out using common sense and looking at all that is out there. Meanwhile, on here, the earth is still flat. Go look people, it's not pretty but it is the truth. It's time to be brave and admit you did not know and fell for it, The truth is liberating and will set you free.

 

I watch the MSM regularly for the same reason I read the shit the press spew, so as to know how some come to the conclusions they do.

 

I was watching Anderson Cooper 360 the other night and he interveued the woman that is mentioned above and something didn't happen. At 2.38 in the clip of said interview below (I was very much hopping that someone would put it out there and they have) she tells Anderson Cooper of two WikiiLeaks that changed everything for her. She explains what the WikiLeaks mean and in the real world Cooper should have been all over the WikiLeaks that she mentioned as well as what they mean, but no, he couldn't wait to distract from her point and away from the WikiLeaks. She makes a valiant attempt at keeping it on track but Cooper was having none of it and ended the interview.

 

 

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0daVZVxCVk

 

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

The most grounded accusations I've heard are that there were FBI agents hellbent on getting Clinton for something and that Comey was trying to keep a lid on them.

 

I think Comey absolutely impacted the outcome of the election, probably flipping it, but that's water under the bridge.

 

Dangerous time we're entering when dozens of local news sources, the SPLC, the FBI, the Anti-Defamation League, and watch groups from the left and right of the spectrum are saying that hate crimes are up and that they're extremely worried about a trend towards white nationalism in the White House, but ATIS is here saying, "all lies" because he doesn't like it and it doesn't make him feel good.  We have no basis for common facts any more.

ATIS wrote "more" lies not "all" lies because you lied. Now you've just gone and lied again about the wording in my post.  You knew what you were writing was lies but you still wrote it. Read the link you posted one more time, then read your post again then get back to me. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

 

Funny.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

 

Funny.

"I don't know Joe, its a tough decision. Try on the Ray Bans again"

[Don Draper]

Oops more lies. Close but no coconut. Why do you continue to post this $#!t on here. You know what you're posting is not true but you like the drama of leaving it hanging out there. Hoping people don't read it verbatim. Sad.

 

This post made me laugh out loud because it reads just like a deranged Trump tweet.

 

(Maybe you meant it to be read that way, but I don't think that's really you...if you did, though, well played).

[Don Draper]

Do you accept that what you posted earlier about the FBI reporting a surge in hate crime since the election was complete crap?

 

You post fiction, then complain that "we have no basis for common facts any more".

 

From the NYT piece that UA linked to:

 

"A wave of racially charged assaults, graffiti attacks and other episodes has swept the country since Election Day, prompting Mr. Trump to call for a halt to it during a ?60 Minutes? interview broadcast on Sunday night."

 

That seems pretty clear to me.

 

"Wave"...."surge"...is it simply semantics you're quibbling about?

[Francis Albert]

From the NYT piece that UA linked to:

 

"A wave of racially charged assaults, graffiti attacks and other episodes has swept the country since Election Day, prompting Mr. Trump to call for a halt to it during a ?60 Minutes? interview broadcast on Sunday night."

 

That seems pretty clear to me.

 

"Wave"...."surge"...is it simply semantics you're quibbling about?

That was not part of or a reference to the FBI report that UA was referring to.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Francis Albert

[i8hibsh]

I hope all these protesters are making sure all their social media friends and followers know how utterly against Trump they are and how nice a person they are because of this.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

From the NYT piece that UA linked to:

 

"A wave of racially charged assaults, graffiti attacks and other episodes has swept the country since Election Day, prompting Mr. Trump to call for a halt to it during a ?60 Minutes? interview broadcast on Sunday night."

 

That seems pretty clear to me.

 

"Wave"...."surge"...is it simply semantics you're quibbling about?

 

This post made me laugh out loud because it reads just like a deranged Trump tweet.

 

(Maybe you meant it to be read that way, but I don't think that's really you...if you did, though, well played).

I cant in all honesty take the credit for making you laugh.

I've just had enough of people writing or posting things that they know are false yet still feel the need to hit send.