The 2015 General Election Megathread

[2NaFish]

No, those are the questions? Why do they need each other and community like they do?

 

Now you've changed the questions.

[jambo1185]

Last link I promise, a dismantling of the SNPs education policy by the Financial Times and how it's hurting the poorest students

 

http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2015/05/01/the-snp-has-let-down-scotlands-poorest-students/

 

• Scotland now has the lowest rate of grant in western Europe;
• Since the SNP took office in 2007, spending on income-related student grant in Scotland has almost halved in real terms; and
• Scotland is the only part of the UK where borrowing is highest among students from poorer backgrounds

Edited May 1, 2015 by jambo1185

[Sidsnot]

"Mr Milliband, would you like to be PM"

"No, I hate the jocks so much I'd rather never be PM"

 

 

 

So all the (English) Westminster parties have decided to exclude all SNP MPs from everything? That'll save their precious union right enough. British citizens electing British MPs to sit in the British parliament but being blackballed because the big parties don't like them.  

So Ed is basically telling us we are a foreign country,fine.

[Mr Brightside]

So Ed is basically telling us we are a foreign country,fine.

No, he just doesn't want to work with a party who believe in breaking up the Union. SNP a does not equal Scotland.

 

SNP supporters already starting to seethe at the prospect of being left out in the cold. The seethe will be at epic proportions by May the 10th.

[The Real Maroonblood]

No, he just doesn't want to work with a party who believe in breaking up the Union. SNP a does not equal Scotland.

SNP supporters already starting to seethe at the prospect of being left out in the cold. The seethe will be at epic proportions by May the 10th.

The seethe will be from Labour.

[jambos are go!]

 

Last link I promise, a dismantling of the SNPs education policy by the Financial Times and how it's hurting the poorest students

 

http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2015/05/01/the-snp-has-let-down-scotlands-poorest-students/

 

• Scotland now has the lowest rate of grant in western Europe;
• Since the SNP took office in 2007, spending on income-related student grant in Scotland has almost halved in real terms; and
• Scotland is the only part of the UK where borrowing is highest among students from poorer backgrounds

 

And all in the name of a fatally flawed free tuition policy that favours rich kids most and denies poorer kids places and decent grants.. As I've said before the SNP have a track record not to be proud of.

[jambos are go!]

They'd have to repeal the Fixed Term Act first. No chance of that happening.

IIRC correctly it has an escape clause but otherwise it can be overturned by another Act of Parliament. Otherwise why would the media be talking about another election in 6 months.

[Gorgiewave]

Scotland is not some apocalyptic wasteland as Gorgiewave makes out (or would like it to be). I'm calling out bullshit.

 

He's completely given up on Scotland on the basis of one (possible) election result. A majority of the Scottish people haven't given up on Britain despite probably not getting election results they've desired over the years. Maybe he could learn something from them.

 

Even after 300 years of the Westminster jackboot? 300 years of rape, pillage, sackage and wreckage? Domination by England, a country in which every single person is an aristocrat?

 

Or maybe Scotland is doing not bad by most measures. If so, what's the problem?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Gorgiewave

[Sidsnot]

No.  The SNP are saying, we will support you on certain things, we don't want cabinet positions, but when it comes to Scotland you can expect us to want as much as we can.  Now, that's a starting point.  The SNP will know they can't get everything they want, but they could help Labour put through quite a lot of its proposed legislation.  It's quid pro quo.

 

But, to dismiss the third largest party out of hand seems like Labour are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

But that's just my take on it.

 

I take it from your last comments that you don't agree with coalition government then?  Because replace SNP with Lib Dem and that's what we have now.

100% correct,even many Labour voters are going mental at the thought of a coalition with the Tories or LibDems.

[doctor jambo]

And all in the name of a fatally flawed free tuition policy that favours rich kids most and denies poorer kids places and decent grants.. As I've said before the SNP have a track record not to be proud of.

 

There are "rich kids " and there are "rich kids"

Free tuition?

Just as well

I don't know many middle class parents who can spare ?9,000 per annum for tuition fees + living costs + the rest per child

Divisive bollocks TBH

Parents on ?40k per year would be unable to pay that- just as much as those on ?15 k

Education should be free for all- even tertiary, or cost the same for all- equality of access - yes?

Because after all at 16 + you are your own person and an adult, so should be entitled to the same support from your government , regardless of your "back ground"

TO be discriminated against because of your upbringing is wrong in any direction

[Mr Brightside]

The seethe will be from Labour.

Only if there is a Tory majority, otherwise it's a minority labour govt or back to the polls which is win win.

Salmond will be in tears as his DPM dream is in tatters.

[XB52]

Apples and pears Boris

Labour will blame the SNP for Tory Government

SNP will blame Labour

Both are right

And it does not mean that Scottish votes are ignored- it means what it should, that the vote of a Scot , or a Scots MP is exactly the same as that of any other UK citizen.

The SNP wants a minority party to have undue influence

that is possibly more undemocratic than anything- why should they?

what is the government we have at the moment, I thought I read somewhere that the Tories were in cahoots with a minority party?? Or is that only ok if the minority party isn't Scottish?

[Sidsnot]

Says more about the attitudes and lifestyles of what would be the major city in an Independent Scotland, Sidsnot.

It won't happen but I wish to God ALL these marches were banned entirely.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Only if there is a Tory majority, otherwise it's a minority labour govt or back to the polls which is win win.

Salmond will be in tears as his DPM dream is in tatters.

I doubt there will be a Tory majority government.

I said in an earlier post I am looking forward to the carnage.

Bring it on.

Edited May 1, 2015 by The Real Maroonblood

[doctor jambo]

what is the government we have at the moment, I thought I read somewhere that the Tories were in cahoots with a minority party?? Or is that only ok if the minority party isn't Scottish?

No, but the Tories have stomped all over a week Lib dems

The Nats are strong , and a totally different set up

Con/dem is a coalition of unity

As opposed to a coalition of disparity

Labour/SNP would only be in coalition because one had partially wiped out the other- they are essentially bitter enemies

[XB52]

Westminster has 650 seats. A Scottish seat is worth exactly the same as any other. Westminster is not the Senate. For most matters, Scotland has Holyrood (and the SNP are making an arse of that). For everything else, there's the Union we voted for.

 

Why are the nationalists so needy? Why are they so pathetic?

pathetic to want what is best for our country???  God I am so glad you left these shores, hopefully when Independence finally comes there will be a rush of your unionist pals showing how much they love their country by leaving it

[Mr Brightside]

what is the government we have at the moment, I thought I read somewhere that the Tories were in cahoots with a minority party?? Or is that only ok if the minority party isn't Scottish?

It's nothing to do with being Scottish. It's to do with being a Scottish separatist party. Ed is only supporting the sovereign will of the majority of Scottish people who don't want independence. Good on him.

[doctor jambo]

pathetic to want what is best for our country???  God I am so glad you left these shores, hopefully when Independence finally comes there will be a rush of your unionist pals showing how much they love their country by leaving it

 

And you don't think the nationalists have been divisive?

Scotland would be a small nation running consistant budget deficits, as part of the Euro-zone.About as important as Finland or Lithuania.

Or Greece but without the sunshine

[Nookie Bear]

pathetic to want what is best for our country???  God I am so glad you left these shores, hopefully when Independence finally comes there will be a rush of your unionist pals showing how much they love their country by leaving it

 

I think you'll find this is a General Election thread, not an Independence thread...

[Pans Jambo]

I think there's a lot of merit in a second chamber, but we need reform of what we have.

Worst post on this entire forum

[Cade]

It's nothing to do with being Scottish. It's to do with being a Scottish separatist party. Ed is only supporting the sovereign will of the majority of Scottish people who don't want independence. Good on him.

Again, ignoring the elected representatives of one of the four nations of the Union just because the English mob don't like their policies. 

Bye bye UK if that happens.

[Pans Jambo]

And you don't think the nationalists have been divisive?

Scotland would be a small nation running consistant budget deficits, as part of the Euro-zone.About as important as Finland or Lithuania.

Or Greece but without the sunshine

Why do we need to be important? Do we still want an empire? What about the people that live here? Are they/we not important?

[doctor jambo]

Why do we need to be important? Do we still want an empire? What about the people that live here? Are they/we not important?

We do need "clout".

Otherwise the big countries treat you as an irrelevance

And also, unless you intend to run a budget break even (the SNP have no intention of this and favour MORE borrowing over longer) then who is going to lend to you?

A small nation with small GDP and a persistant deficit whose governemtn is promising NOT to balance the books.

Stick on for a loan that one

[TheMaganator]

The National Collective are finally calling it a day. Today. On the 308th anniversary of the unification of the kingdoms of Scotland and England into a single Kingdom of Great Britain.

 

http://nationalcollective.com/2015/05/01/friday-may-1st-2015/

 

Thanks for all the 'art' guys.

[jambo1185]

Worst post on this entire forum

 

Why? Second chambers/upper houses are not-exactly rare. I guess you don't believe they have any merits (in any of the countries in which they operate), but I don't see how suggesting keeping one can possible be the worst post on the forum given the masses of **** in this thread alone. Bit of a ridiculous statement there matey.

 

House of Lords is no longer the answer, I want major reform and would scrap it as it stands but replace it with an (elected) upper house of some form.

Edited May 1, 2015 by jambo1185

[Mr Brightside]

Again, ignoring the elected representatives of one of the four nations of the Union just because the English mob don't like their policies.

Bye bye UK if that happens.

Depends on the percentage of the SNP vote not number of seats. If it's less than 50% it's fair to assume the sovereign will of the Scottish people hasn't changed. Edited May 1, 2015 by Mr Brightside

[2NaFish]

Depends on the percentage of the SNP vote not number of seats. If it's less than 50% it's fair to assume the sovereign will of the Scottish people hasn't changed.

 

You know this is a general election, not an independence referendum right? You can't ask a question, and then extrapolate answers to a different question.

[Sidsnot]

No, he just doesn't want to work with a party who believe in breaking up the Union. SNP a does not equal Scotland.

SNP supporters already starting to seethe at the prospect of being left out in the cold. The seethe will be at epic proportions by May the 10th.

We'll see,despite all Ed's waffling last night you can take my word on it he will need the SNP otherwise his career is over before it even began.

[Nookie Bear]

Worst post on this entire forum

 

That's harsh. I could quote at least 5 of mine worthy of the title.

[Cade]

Depends on the percentage of the SNP vote not number of seats. If it's less than 50% it's fair to assume the sovereign will of the Scottish people hasn't changed.

Westminster is not chosen by the popular vote. That would be Proportional representation, something that Westminster has been dead against for centuries.

Doesn't matter what the share of the popular vote is, whoever gets a seat has a mandate from the people as their elected representative.

 

Hate the system, not the player.

[jambo1185]

That's harsh. I could quote at least 5 of mine worthy of the title.

 

Thanks for your support. Not quite sure how suggesting a reformed second chamber can be the worst post on this forum, but I'm sure it will be explained to me soon enough....

[Mr Brightside]

You know this is a general election, not an independence referendum right? You can't ask a question, and then extrapolate answers to a different question.

Ok fair enough. Then returning 40 plus SNP MPs can't be used as indication that Scotland wants independence and another referendum should be held.

[Mr Brightside]

We'll see,despite all Ed's waffling last night you can take my word on it he will need the SNP otherwise his career is over before it even began.

There is no way he can maintain a credible career if he has any arrangement with the SNP in the next parliament.

[IMac]

There are "rich kids " and there are "rich kids"

Free tuition?

Just as well

I don't know many middle class parents who can spare ?9,000 per annum for tuition fees + living costs + the rest per child

Divisive bollocks TBH

Parents on ?40k per year would be unable to pay that- just as much as those on ?15 k

Education should be free for all- even tertiary, or cost the same for all- equality of access - yes?

Because after all at 16 + you are your own person and an adult, so should be entitled to the same support from your government , regardless of your "back ground"

TO be discriminated against because of your upbringing is wrong in any direction

sorry that isnt how it works.

Ystudent do not pay up front. They do not pay a thing until they can afford to. They are also entitled to maintenance grants that aren't available in scotland.

 

More students from less advantage backgrounds go to university in england than in scotland.

 

But hey free tuition sounds good. And nick lied so that is all that matters

[Gorgiewave]

The National Collective are finally calling it a day. Today. On the 308th anniversary of the unification of the kingdoms of Scotland and England into a single Kingdom of Great Britain.

 

http://nationalcollective.com/2015/05/01/friday-may-1st-2015/

 

Thanks for all the 'art' guys.

 

A good ham shank fest to sign off on.

[Gorgiewave]

sorry that isnt how it works.

Ystudent do not pay up front. They do not pay a thing until they can afford to. They are also entitled to maintenance grants that aren't available in scotland.

 

More students from less advantage backgrounds go to university in england than in scotland.

 

But hey free tuition sounds good. And nick lied so that is all that matters

 

Tuition fees are nothing like as extreme as people think. Plan 1 applies to people who began before 2012, Plan 2 for people who began later.

 

https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay

 

Plan 1 Your income per year Monthly repayments

?17,335 and under ?0

?20,000 ?23

?25,000 ?61

?30,000 ?98

?50,000 ?248

 

Interest on Plan 1 You currently pay interest of 1.5% on Plan 1.

Plan 2 Your income per year Monthly repayments

?21,000 and under ?0

?25,000 ?30

?30,000 ?67

?50,000 ?217

 

Paying these fees could be a way to balance the stupid ******* budget:

 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Gorgiewave

[Sidsnot]

There is no way he can maintain a credible career if he has any arrangement with the SNP in the next parliament.

Didn't you see the BBC's Robert Peston's quote from last Saturday where he claimed "my inbox on my computer is jam packed with people in England wishing they were living in Scotland or Nicola a Sturgeon was prime minister of the UK."

Ed needs NS,big time.

[Gorgiewave]

Didn't you see the BBC's Robert Peston's quote from last Saturday where he claimed "my inbox on my computer is jam packed with people in England wishing they were living in Scotland or Nicola a Sturgeon was prime minister of the UK."

Ed needs NS,big time.

 

No, he doesn't. If Labour is the biggest party, he can say: "SNP, Chavista country wreckers, here's the deal. You can vote for my Queen's Speech; or you can abstain (where will the gowd's voice be then?): or you can vote against, letting in the Tories, who are to the right of Mussolini, Hitler and Genghis Khan. Now, try and blackmail me."

[Cade]

Or the SNP can vote down the Tory minority govt queens speech (they get first go as sitting govt) AND the labour minority govt queens speech and trigger another election, which sillyband would probably lose.

 

He's playing chicken and he'll blink.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Cade

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Or the SNP can vote down the Tory minority govt queens speech (they get first go as sitting govt) AND the labour minority govt queens speech and trigger another election, which sillyband would probably lose.

 

He's playing chicken and he'll blink.

That's the test. If I was in Labour I would roll the dice and let the SNP be the reason people are forced back to the polls.

[jambo1185]

Or the SNP can vote down the Tory minority govt queens speech (they get first go as sitting govt) AND the labour minority govt queens speech and trigger another election, which sillyband would probably lose.

 

He's playing chicken and he'll blink.

 

Is there not a danger that if the SNP are seen to vote down both Labour and Tory, that would hurt them up here? I'm sure many of their core support would love it, but for those who are maybe a bit softer, could that not push them back to Labour to try and ensure some stability?

 

Also, Nicola has stated she won't do anything that makes a Tory government likely, that must surely include bringing down a Labour minority government if it's likely/possible the Tories would pick up a majority next time. Are her hands not tied here? Best she could do would be to instruct her MPs to abstain, and hope that Labour can pick up support from the other parties to get through without them?

 

If I was the Tories, I would offer Plaid reform of the Barnett to match Scotland (their top priority) and offer the SNP FFA/FFR (seemingly their top desire) and see what they say. If those are each parties key policy that they think is in Wales'/Scotland's best interests, will they really refuse to act in their nations' bests interests simply because of where the policy is stemming from? How would the SNP support react to that - gleefully at telling the Tory's to eff off, or annoyed at the SNP refusing additional powers (which Nicola said SNP MPs would vote for in this parliament if the opportunity arose)? Probably the former I guess?

Edited May 1, 2015 by jambo1185

[Sidsnot]

Hahahahaaaaaaa,a nice u turn from Ed the Red,he must have got his bahookie smacked after last night's shambles.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11576289/Ed-Miliband-indicates-Labour-will-work-with-SNP-after-the-election.html

[Thunderstruck]

pathetic to want what is best for our country??? God I am so glad you left these shores, hopefully when Independence finally comes there will be a rush of your unionist pals showing how much they love their country by leaving it

What is pathetic is the suggestion that only you want what is best for Scotland. We might disagree on the route to our own Nirvanah but, for the moment, we live in a democracy where differences of opinion are tolerated.

[Mr Brightside]

Didn't you see the BBC's Robert Peston's quote from last Saturday where he claimed "my inbox on my computer is jam packed with people in England wishing they were living in Scotland or Nicola a Sturgeon was prime minister of the UK."

Ed needs NS,big time.

Didn't you know NS is not standing for Westminster?

[Mr Brightside]

Or the SNP can vote down the Tory minority govt queens speech (they get first go as sitting govt) AND the labour minority govt queens speech and trigger another election, which sillyband would probably lose.

 

He's playing chicken and he'll blink.

Your spot on except for the last sentence which is what I have been saying for a while.

The gamble is some SNP voters come back to Labour to block a Tory govt and some swing voters in England will see Ed was true to his word about no deal with SNP and go to labour.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Didn't you know NS is not standing for Westminster?

It also demonstrates the levels of political engagement I pointed out earlier.

[Thunderstruck]

Hahahahaaaaaaa,a nice u turn from Ed the Red,he must have got his bahookie smacked after last night's shambles.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11576289/Ed-Miliband-indicates-Labour-will-work-with-SNP-after-the-election.html

The Telegraph suggests that Labour Leader might be vacillating.

 

In other news, the Sun rose in the East this morning.

[2NaFish]

Ok fair enough. Then returning 40 plus SNP MPs can't be used as indication that Scotland wants independence and another referendum should be held.

 

It also can't be used as an indication that penguins should be astronauts. Is anyone credible saying either?

[jambos are go!]

There are "rich kids " and there are "rich kids"

Free tuition?

Just as well

I don't know many middle class parents who can spare ?9,000 per annum for tuition fees + living costs + the rest per child

Divisive bollocks TBH

Parents on ?40k per year would be unable to pay that- just as much as those on ?15 k

Education should be free for all- even tertiary, or cost the same for all- equality of access - yes?

Because after all at 16 + you are your own person and an adult, so should be entitled to the same support from your government , regardless of your "back ground"

TO be discriminated against because of your upbringing is wrong in any direction

You seem to have overlooked the fact that nearly 200,000 college places have been lost to meet the cost of free tuition. These kids have no tuition never mind free tuition. Another couple of points.

 

You can develop a more progressive approach to tuition fees so that charges are varied according to means. Also as someone said Labours Educational Endownment Scheme recommended in the Cubie report enjoyed wide support and Andrew Cubie got a standing ovation at the NUS.

 

Repayment terms for Student Loans and fees are extremely generous and students dont pay unless they can and can obtain payment holidays in tough times. Im pretty sure I read an article saying that 50% of fee debt will never be repaid. A parent who choses to take over student debt would be just as well saving the money and fund repsyments if and when they become due.

 

The SNP policy is purely populist and nobody will ever persuade me that a student who has enjoyed funding worth many thousands of pounds from their parents to attend public schools should enjoy free higher education tuition fees whilst a couple of hundred thousand places are denied to other kids.

[jambo1185]

It also can't be used as an indication that penguins should be astronauts. Is anyone credible saying either?