Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Was that Eric 'The Hitman' Joyce? Who was that? http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/former-merseyside-council-leader-marie-7795001 Just decide the election on that. She wins, they get a majority of Scottish seats. He wins, the SNP get 20 seats and Labour keep the rest except the Shetlands who go to the LibDems. Hope Jeremy Vine has got his green screen calibrated for some boxing analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/former-merseyside-council-leader-marie-7795001 Hope Jeremy Vine has got his green screen calibrated for some boxing analysis. Deary me. Edited February 9, 2015 by The Comedian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well, minimum pricing on alcohol is quite simply a terrific policy and I can't say I've ever been harassed by the police either. In other words, unless you're a raging alcoholic or trouble maker, you shouldn't be bothered. Really. There absolutely no rational for children who under the age of consent should be subject to a stop and search by police. 654 CHILDREN under 12 last year. How can anyone justify such activity. People need to be asking questions of the government for letting this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Really. There absolutely no rational for children who under the age of consent should be subject to a stop and search by police. 654 CHILDREN under 12 last year. How can anyone justify such activity. People need to be asking questions of the government for letting this happen. Under 9 it was 159 in a year. In London it was 19. That's unacceptable. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/sturgeon-police-scotland-is-considering-ending-stop-and-search.1423143090 It's a police force which is a law unto itself. And a government unwilling to do anything to temper it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Since FPTP has lost it's final arrow of stopping coalitions can we please get something not-shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 In hindsight, the Sunday Herald's change of editorial stance during the referendum was real scrambling for relevance stuff. Front pages look like they're always done by the deranged #45 folk on Twitter who have access to Photoshop. About that... #astormiscoming #theempirestrikesback #the45+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Well, minimum pricing on alcohol is quite simply a terrific policy and I can't say I've ever been harassed by the police either. In other words, unless you're a raging alcoholic or trouble maker, you shouldn't be bothered. lol wut Yes: Labour's support has clearly swollen since he became leader. Stop it. Erm, young kids at primary school having free taxpayer funded access to proper meals is "nonsense"? Oh dear. ^^^ Clearly fears Mhairi Black, imo. The free school meals for all P1-3 children is a nonsense. Why not P4 kids? My Son qualifies and he finishes school at 12 on a Friday so the school has to send him home with a packed lunch! What a waste of food and money that could be spent on something else. Teachers maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Really. There absolutely no rational for children who under the age of consent should be subject to a stop and search by police. 654 CHILDREN under 12 last year. How can anyone justify such activity. People need to be asking questions of the government for letting this happen. Do you understand what a 'stop & search' is? I don't think you do. On any given night you have fairly large groups of children, many of whom are under 12 running around the shit-hole housing schemes of Edinburgh at 10pm on a school night. Are you seriously suggesting that they shouldn't be stopped and asked what they are doing? Furthermore I'd suggest children of that age being left to run feral are prime candidates for a state guardian right there because their parents clearly don't give two fecks about what they are up to. People need to be asking questions of the parents for letting that happen. Edited February 10, 2015 by The Mighty Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you understand what a 'stop & search' is? I don't think you do. On any given night you have fairly large groups of children, many of whom are under 12 running around the shit-hole housing schemes of Edinburgh at 10pm on a school night. Are you seriously suggesting that they shouldn't be stopped and asked what they are doing? Furthermore I'd suggest children of that age being left to run feral are prime candidates for a state guardian right there because their parents clearly don't give two fecks about what they are up to. People need to be asking questions of the parents for letting that happen. "Almost 450,000 consensual stop-searches were carried out between March 2013 and April 2014, Police Scotland figures show. Under the tactic, which does not take place elsewhere in the UK, officers can frisk members of the public even if there is no suspicion they broke any laws, while they do not have to inform their target that they have the right to refuse. Under the new proposals, the police right to search people who are suspected of committing an offence would be unaffected. There were 191,600 suspects searched in the March 2013 to April last year period. Professor Alan Miller, chair of The Scottish Human Rights Commission, said: "All of us should be free to go about our daily business and the police should only be entitled to stop and search us if they have reasonable suspicion that we are doing something unlawful. We are pleased that Police Scotland is now taking proactive steps to address the concerns that the Commission and others have raised." From yesterdays Herald. Consensual stop and search has no statutory underpinning and you don't even need to be suspected of any wrongdoing to be searched. Not exactly my idea of your right to being presumed innocent. Nor is it exactly fair. To say those under 12, or anyone, should be exposed to this is just wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you understand what a 'stop & search' is? I don't think you do. On any given night you have fairly large groups of children, many of whom are under 12 running around the shit-hole housing schemes of Edinburgh at 10pm on a school night. Are you seriously suggesting that they shouldn't be stopped and asked what they are doing? Furthermore I'd suggest children of that age being left to run feral are prime candidates for a state guardian right there because their parents clearly don't give two fecks about what they are up to. People need to be asking questions of the parents for letting that happen. Aye, but what of the overwhelming majority of untroubled kids who are safely at home with their families at that time of night? There's no doubt the vulnerable need assistance - but every single kid and family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 "Almost 450,000 consensual stop-searches were carried out between March 2013 and April 2014, Police Scotland figures show. Under the tactic, which does not take place elsewhere in the UK, officers can frisk members of the public even if there is no suspicion they broke any laws, while they do not have to inform their target that they have the right to refuse. Under the new proposals, the police right to search people who are suspected of committing an offence would be unaffected. There were 191,600 suspects searched in the March 2013 to April last year period. Professor Alan Miller, chair of The Scottish Human Rights Commission, said: "All of us should be free to go about our daily business and the police should only be entitled to stop and search us if they have reasonable suspicion that we are doing something unlawful. We are pleased that Police Scotland is now taking proactive steps to address the concerns that the Commission and others have raised." From yesterdays Herald. Consensual stop and search has no statutory underpinning and you don't even need to be suspected of any wrongdoing to be searched. Not exactly my idea of your right to being presumed innocent. Nor is it exactly fair. To say those under 12, or anyone, should be exposed to this is just wrong. The number of stop searches is so high because of policy. Every team in police Scotland is targeted with a number of stop searches they must carry out and these numbers are reviewed every single month. Is it right? of course not. It's a blunt instrument and it's even arguable if it works at all. The right to search someone suspected of a crime is something else entirely and there is a right and proper place for that in the powers of Police Scotland, that includes under 12's, because believe it or not under 12's commit breaches and crimes fairly regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Aye, but what of the overwhelming majority of untroubled kids who are safely at home with their families at that time of night? There's no doubt the vulnerable need assistance - but every single kid and family? Bad things happen to kids who're not running around council estates at night. Some kids are even out at nights because it's safer than being at home. I take your point that it could be seen as overkill; but how can you know who needs assistance unless you offer assistance? Edited February 10, 2015 by 2NaFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Back on topic, few poll of polls reports today from John Curtice and the Electoral Reform society. Makes interesting reading and shows up the system is broken. SNP could be 6th in number of votes but 3rd in seats and Scottish Labour could be 10 points behind the SNP in Scotland and hold onto 30 odd seats. Indefensible on both fronts... http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/general-election-system-biased-towards-labour-1-3684159 http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/voters-face-election-lottery-as-two-party-system-vanishes.117972457 Saw this on Scotland 2015 last night. Whilst it is a Westminster election and the SNP could end up the third largest party, with a paltry share of the vote (UK wide), it highlights what I have been saying for ages that devolution has to include reform at Westminster to avoid this sort of thing. Would like to see the figures in relation to Northern Irish MP's re seats in Commons compared to %age of total UK vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Back on topic, few poll of polls reports today from John Curtice and the Electoral Reform society. Makes interesting reading and shows up the system is broken. SNP could be 6th in number of votes but 3rd in seats and Scottish Labour could be 10 points behind the SNP in Scotland and hold onto 30 odd seats. Indefensible on both fronts... http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/general-election-system-biased-towards-labour-1-3684159 http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/voters-face-election-lottery-as-two-party-system-vanishes.117972457 Similarly we have had Govts with thumping majorities, yet less than 40% of the vote. Whilst there has always been a case for PR, it's interesting that now the hegemony of the two main parties is called into doubt that some start to call foul. Not aiming that at you or Prof Curtice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lets not beat around the bush -the police KNOW who they need to be searching -social work / health visitors KNOW who they need to be keeping an eye on and assisting However - senior police are paid bonuses for hitting stop and search targets for the year- this is a fact, so to hit these numbers they have to get their constables to search random punters for utterly no reason at all. The police have absolutely no business stopping me in the street- its embarassing and degrading. but that is what happens when your Chief Constable is totally out of control. And the state nanny- waste of resources- the resource shift will be away from those already needing support onto those who do not- and is potentially damaging for the most vulerable as they will see a cut in input provided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Aye, but what of the overwhelming majority of untroubled kids who are safely at home with their families at that time of night? There's no doubt the vulnerable need assistance - but every single kid and family? Aye, but you could use that argument for every single law and power proposed. who is it targeted at, who does it effect? Data collection? if i choose to wank myself to death to internet porn, as a consenting adult, what's that got to do with the government or ISP? If i want to drink myself to death again it's my choice, why should i have to suffer minimum unit pricing on something I already pay excise duty and VAT on? You appear to be someone who isn't vulnerable (politically susceptible maybe ) but don't underestimate just how many people out there are vulnerable, who slipping through the current system, both adults and children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 DUP as kingmakers? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/10/labour-snp-coalition-ulster-unionist-leader-dodds Wonder how that sits with the bleeding heart "progressives"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 DUP as kingmakers? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/10/labour-snp-coalition-ulster-unionist-leader-dodds Wonder how that sits with the bleeding heart "progressives"? Labour probably won't win enough seats for that to work. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Labour probably won't win enough seats for that to work. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk The thing is that Labour could govern as a minority, provided it can get its budgets passed. The SNP is making a big story of the coalition angle but Labour could suffer from that in England, particularly from UKIP playing the standing up for England card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 And talking of the Farage followers, guaranteed they will be all over this like a rash http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31356895 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 And talking of the Farage followers, guaranteed they will be all over this like a rash http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31356895 Meh - we'll take the fine and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Aye, but you could use that argument for every single law and power proposed. who is it targeted at, who does it effect? Data collection? if i choose to **** myself to death to internet porn, as a consenting adult, what's that got to do with the government or ISP? If i want to drink myself to death again it's my choice, why should i have to suffer minimum unit pricing on something I already pay excise duty and VAT on? You appear to be someone who isn't vulnerable (politically susceptible maybe ) but don't underestimate just how many people out there are vulnerable, who slipping through the current system, both adults and children. I guess nobody knows how many are slipping through the system. I just think the resources we have should be used at strengthening the current system that doesn't seem to be doing too badly - like I said - how many of the tragic cases that we hear of were not know to social services? They mostly seem to be failings of one department or another. imo the way to improve that is by allocating more resources to the existing model - not creating a state guardian for every child - that's just costly, intrusive and pointless. I agree that you should be free to masturbate as you please. I agree with your point on minimum pricing (was that not a SNP policy?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lets not beat around the bush -the police KNOW who they need to be searching -social work / health visitors KNOW who they need to be keeping an eye on and assisting Who's that then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 And talking of the Farage followers, guaranteed they will be all over this like a rash http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31356895 No party will want to be the ones to capitulate on this matter. Fines paid and move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Who's that then? The vulnerable or the criminals? Ask a teacher/health visitor/ social worker/ GP/midwife who the vulnerable are and they can tell you- its pretty inclusive Ask a PC/ Sergeant who the people on their patch most likely to be carrying weapons/ drugs and they can tell you Is that so difficult a concept? And even in the cases when mistakes are made and something bad happens it is usually due to underresourcing as opposed to not being known about- these kids/people whatever are on the radar- but there is not enough time to monitor properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) The vulnerable or the criminals? Ask a teacher/health visitor/ social worker/ GP/midwife who the vulnerable are and they can tell you- its pretty inclusive Ask a PC/ Sergeant who the people on their patch most likely to be carrying weapons/ drugs and they can tell you Is that so difficult a concept? And even in the cases when mistakes are made and something bad happens it is usually due to underresourcing as opposed to not being known about- these kids/people whatever are on the radar- but there is not enough time to monitor properly. So the police would be on the look out for middle class doctors for leaving their children in villas whilst they went off to get drunk? Or perhaps doctors like Harold Shipman? You're saying the state guardians and the police should be looking in to someone like yourself? Nah, what you're saying is that 'those people' have a look about 'them'. Them. Y'know, them. Those people Edited February 10, 2015 by 2NaFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Like this.Liars and swindlers and puppets to the "corporate elite" to whom they really serve and to whom they have vested interests by way of financial investments,ect, the "back benchers" of political parties and those in the "house of lords" are not serving the people, nothing ever really changes no matter who gets into power.If there is one honest politician out there then i would be very surprised, people are just voting for a different concept of lies and broken pre election promises be that from Labour Tory or Lib/Dens.Just saying like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So the police would be on the look out for middle class doctors for leaving their children in villas whilst they went off to get drunk? Or perhaps doctors like Harold Shipman? You're saying the state guardians and the police should be looking in to someone like yourself? Nah, what you're saying is that 'those people' have a look about 'them'. Them. Y'know, them. Those people Aye , very good. Stop and search would have affected either of those how? And how many people under 18 did Shipman kill? How many British police are patting down tourists in the Algarve anyway? And yes- police at a local level are well aware of who the criminals are on their patch - and no its not a class thing/race thing - thats deflection they know the criminals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) No, they know some of the criminals. The known criminals. What about the unknown criminals? Your version only applies to low level drugs pushers and scummy mummies. So, yes it is a class thing. You're just so far beyond the pale that you can't even see that. Yours is a world where baddies look like baddies and this only speaks to your simplistic, wrong headed view of the problems in our society and your deep rooted unpleasantness. Edited February 10, 2015 by 2NaFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 No, they know some of the criminals. The known criminals. What about the unknown criminals? Your version only applies to low level drugs pushers and scummy mummies. So, yes it is a class thing. You're just so far beyond the pale that you can't even see that. Yours is a world where baddies look like baddies and this only speaks to your simplistic, wrong headed view of the problems in our society and your deep rooted unpleasantness. So in your world the police can stop and search anyone they wish, for no reason, in case they are an "unknown criminal" And all parents should be supervised in case they are an unkown abuser/ neglecful You sound like Rico in Judge Dread FFS And your personal abuse is a little tiring ,and I suspect more due to your own personal inadequacies and insecurities than anything else- lighten up- its just a message board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 http://labourlist.org/2015/02/snp-lead-down-to-10-points-in-latest-poll/ New poll has SNP lead down to 10 points It's TNS - not sure if they're any good. There's so many of them these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Aye , very good. Stop and search would have affected either of those how? And how many people under 18 did Shipman kill? How many British police are patting down tourists in the Algarve anyway? And yes- police at a local level are well aware of who the criminals are on their patch - and no its not a class thing/race thing - thats deflection they know the criminals Why no charges brouoght against the heads of the banks then over LIBOR manipulation, for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 http://labourlist.org/2015/02/snp-lead-down-to-10-points-in-latest-poll/ New poll has SNP lead down to 10 points It's TNS - not sure if they're any good. There's so many of them these days I suspect that there will be some narrowing of the polls and that the SNP will not get 40+ seats. This will then be spun as a Labour victory, or rather, an SNP defeat. Which, of course, would be nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Why no charges brouoght against the heads of the banks then over LIBOR manipulation, for example? Because those best qualified to identify financial crime are employed by financial institutions to help perpetrate financial crime would be my guess. PwC, HSBC etc should all be facing mass prosecutions Out of all the evaders on the list handed to HMRC 5 years ago one has been prosecuted and we have recovered ?150million in tax- pathetic. Under new powers HMRC can just demand the whole shoot and match immediately then you have to prove inocence to get it back. that is the case with joe public- so why not here? Publish the list or be damned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I suspect that there will be some narrowing of the polls and that the SNP will not get 40+ seats. This will then be spun as a Labour victory, or rather, an SNP defeat. Which, of course, would be nonsense. I dunno - if the SNP were on course to win 40 and only win 20 is that not a victory for labour and a defeat for the SNP? Hopefully Salmond loses his bid though - that would be very pleasing. It is high time these old political elites stood aside and let the younger promising members come through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Really makes you question what else is going on behind the walls of Whitehall and Downing Street and the House of Lords for that matter , slowly becoming more transparent that most of them are cut fro the same cloth , personal financial interests , MPs expenses ect have taken over the interests of the people. Spot the hypocrisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I dunno - if the SNP were on course to win 40 and only win 20 is that not a victory for labour and a defeat for the SNP? Hopefully Salmond loses his bid though - that would be very pleasing. It is high time these old political elites stood aside and let the younger promising members come through That, of course, depends on the polls! The one you mentioned has the SNP lead down to 10% so would that equate to 40+ seats? I don't know. Assuming the SNP pick up 20+ seats, that is a defeat for Labour, imo, given it will be Labour seats that are taken mostly. I guess I mean either way, Labour will lose. It's just by how much! I quite like Salmond and he'd be great at Westminster at PMQ's for example. He's still one of the best politicians around, like him or loathe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 A few posts have been removed. May I remind everyone of Rule 1. 1. Always treat fellow members with respect and courtesy. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I guess nobody knows how many are slipping through the system. I just think the resources we have should be used at strengthening the current system that doesn't seem to be doing too badly - like I said - how many of the tragic cases that we hear of were not know to social services? They mostly seem to be failings of one department or another. imo the way to improve that is by allocating more resources to the existing model - not creating a state guardian for every child - that's just costly, intrusive and pointless. I agree that you should be free to masturbate as you please. I agree with your point on minimum pricing (was that not a SNP policy?) The thing is Mag appointing a named guardian on the face of it isn't a bad thing. There's already a Vulnerable Persons Database but it always seems to fall down at a cross agency level. Done properly and in conjunction with named guardians it could remove vulnerable children and adults from harm or self harm. Minimum pricing is an SNP policy. A really stupid and pointless one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I dunno - if the SNP were on course to win 40 and only win 20 is that not a victory for labour and a defeat for the SNP? Hopefully Salmond loses his bid though - that would be very pleasing. It is high time these old political elites stood aside and let the younger promising members come through I would like salmond to continue- especially in westminster as for all his faults he is a splendid combative politician. However I do think it abour time the SNP suffered a bloody nose, as I feel that sense of entitlement to rule taking over, and that arrogance. they have started to think themselves untouchable and are not answering the questions anymore over armed police, stop and search etc thjey are just shrugging it off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The thing is Mag appointing a named guardian on the face of it isn't a bad thing. There's already a Vulnerable Persons Database but it always seems to fall down at a cross agency level. Done properly and in conjunction with named guardians it could remove vulnerable children and adults from harm or self harm. Minimum pricing is an SNP policy. A really stupid and pointless one. Minimum pricing I agree with though. The price of brain - melt alcohol needs to rise. cheap cidre, super lager, cheap vodka etc will be most affected- and probably rightly so. there is good evidence that it will reduce consumption and therefore harm. It will not harm pubs, nor clubs, nor exports (nor even whisky sales) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 http://treasureislands.org/ Has anyone read this and would they recommend it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The thing is that Labour could govern as a minority, provided it can get its budgets passed. The SNP is making a big story of the coalition angle but Labour could suffer from that in England, particularly from UKIP playing the standing up for England card. Ian McWhirter seems to think Labour hold the upper hand with the SNP. Labour can simply turn around and say if you don't back it we'll have a Tory government. The SNP should never have ruled out working with either via supply and confidence. It weakens their hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The number of stop searches is so high because of policy. Every team in police Scotland is targeted with a number of stop searches they must carry out and these numbers are reviewed every single month. Is it right? of course not. It's a blunt instrument and it's even arguable if it works at all. The right to search someone suspected of a crime is something else entirely and there is a right and proper place for that in the powers of Police Scotland, that includes under 12's, because believe it or not under 12's commit breaches and crimes fairly regularly. Agree on your last point. Not what is being discussed though. Stop and search via a suspicion is valid."Consensual" stop and search is a right of police to stop anyone of any age with NO suspicion. Its wrong and a blatant disregard of an individuals rights. As its a policy of the police it shows a lack of disconnect by them to how they should be exercising their power and it needs curbed. They're as much a vested interest as any other group in society who need tempered. This as a police policy and set of targets and the unilateral decision on arming them are signs the amalgamation was botched and there's a lack of oversight and political control over the one nation force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Similarly we have had Govts with thumping majorities, yet less than 40% of the vote. Whilst there has always been a case for PR, it's interesting that now the hegemony of the two main parties is called into doubt that some start to call foul. Not aiming that at you or Prof Curtice! Yup. But that's because it will undermine democracy itself it doesn't change. A 2 party system cannot represent 6 parties well or fairly. It can cope with 3. See the 1920s. But its not a great system and is failing voters. Some for of AMS with constituency MPs representing bigger seats alongside regional ones. Or even going for broke and choosing STV would be improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yup. But that's because it will undermine democracy itself it doesn't change. A 2 party system cannot represent 6 parties well or fairly. It can cope with 3. See the 1920s. But its not a great system and is failing voters. Some for of AMS with constituency MPs representing bigger seats alongside regional ones. Or even going for broke and choosing STV would be improvements. The interesting thing about this is that you need to devolve, if that's the right word, the elections. If you have a Westminster election and the SNP (say) get 5% of the UK vote and then 5% of the seats that in itself sounds fair. Assuming, of course, that the number of seats Scotland gets is a direct %age of its population. Similarly Wales & N.Ireland. I guess what I mean is, each member nation has its number of seats which are elected proportionally using the same system nationwide to send representatives to Westminster, in other words a Scottish election, an English election, Welsh & N.Irish election to send representatives to Westminster. Hope that made sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The interesting thing about this is that you need to devolve, if that's the right word, the elections. If you have a Westminster election and the SNP (say) get 5% of the UK vote and then 5% of the seats that in itself sounds fair. Assuming, of course, that the number of seats Scotland gets is a direct %age of its population. Similarly Wales & N.Ireland. I guess what I mean is, each member nation has its number of seats which are elected proportionally using the same system nationwide to send representatives to Westminster, in other words a Scottish election, an English election, Welsh & N.Irish election to send representatives to Westminster. Hope that made sense! On the face of it PR seems sensible - 5% of vote = 5% of seats. But is the whole argument against it that you're unlikely ever to get a majority so there will be constant hung parliaments and it will be a struggle to get legislation through (for any party of any colour)? Or parties doing deals to get one thing but in doing so sacrificing their ideals on another? Is that the not the whole reason that the lib dems are taking a pasting? They decided it would be better to get some of what they want by sacrificing their position on other things? Would anyone ever be happy under PR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 On the face of it PR seems sensible - 5% of vote = 5% of seats. But is the whole argument against it that you're unlikely ever to get a majority so there will be constant hung parliaments and it will be a struggle to get legislation through (for any party of any colour)? Or parties doing deals to get one thing but in doing so sacrificing their ideals on another? Is that the not the whole reason that the lib dems are taking a pasting? They decided it would be better to get some of what they want by sacrificing their position on other things? Would anyone ever be happy under PR? The current level of politics in this country is showing (as the Curtice report was saying) that FPTP is now outdated as is the idea that it returns majority govt. The Lib Dems are getting a pasting because they sold out some of their key policies very quickly. We have a coalition that isn't really consensus. It's also showing the Lib Dems up for being wet Tories, rather than the radical middle left personified by Kennedy's leadership. i.e. the electorate feel betrayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The current level of politics in this country is showing (as the Curtice report was saying) that FPTP is now outdated as is the idea that it returns majority govt. The Lib Dems are getting a pasting because they sold out some of their key policies very quickly. We have a coalition that isn't really consensus. It's also showing the Lib Dems up for being wet Tories, rather than the radical middle left personified by Kennedy's leadership. i.e. the electorate feel betrayed. A minority partner in a coalition is always going to have a degree of selling out - they did that to get their referendum on AV which clearly they though was more important. That is what coalition is. It is compromise. Feel a bit sorry for them tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 A minority partner in a coalition is always going to have a degree of selling out - they did that to get their referendum on AV which clearly they though was more important. That is what coalition is. It is compromise. Feel a bit sorry for them tbh. I agree it's about compromise, but it never really looked like the Tories compromised on anything, whereas the LD's sold out. AV instead of PR and student fees are why the LD's are (rightly imo) despised. That and the way they hoodwinked the electorate into thinking they weren't really Tories after all, but actually were, post Kennedy. Hell mend them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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