Poseidon Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 And I am indeed registered after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Broon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Do people think that labour will actually have to form a formal coalition? If they are only a few seats short of a majority they should be able to get most of what they want through without having to tolerate the nationalists in government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Do people think that labour will actually have to form a formal coalition? If they are only a few seats short of a majority they should be able to get most of what they want through without having to tolerate the nationalists in government. I don't think that the SNP have offered a coalition. Haven't they said they would support a Labour minority on certain issues - have a sort of understanding, short of an actual coalition. Which makes the Tory fearmongering seem as stupid as it is crass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I don't think that the SNP have offered a coalition. Haven't they said they would support a Labour minority on certain issues - have a sort of understanding, short of an actual coalition. Which makes the Tory fearmongering seem as stupid as it is crass. I don't think the SNP have ruled anything out actually (apart from a coalition with the Tories). And with the constant discussion about it I dont see any issue with the Tories raising it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I don't think the SNP have ruled anything out actually (apart from a coalition with the Tories). And with the constant discussion about it I dont see any issue with the Tories raising it Oh, it's legitimate I suppose, I just prefer political parties to campaign on positives rather than negatives. I suspect that there is a wind of change going throughout Western democracies right now due to this e.g. Greece, Podemas in Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 With SNP openly saying that the removal of Trident would be a red line for any formal coalition, it makes any coalition almost unthinkable. None of the westminster lot are ever going to agree to that. SNP may work with Labour on certain issues and promise them a block vote to push them through (if Labour are a minority govt) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 With SNP openly saying that the removal of Trident would be a red line for any formal coalition, it makes any coalition almost unthinkable. None of the westminster lot are ever going to agree to that. SNP may work with Labour on certain issues and promise them a block vote to push them through (if Labour are a minority govt) I wonder if it'll be a Nick Clegg style red line - the opportunity to sit around the table at Westminster may be too tempting for them? They have u-turned on nuclear issues before (NATO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 With SNP openly saying that the removal of Trident would be a red line for any formal coalition, it makes any coalition almost unthinkable. None of the westminster lot are ever going to agree to that. SNP may work with Labour on certain issues and promise them a block vote to push them through (if Labour are a minority govt) Its almost as if national defence policy isn't a matter bartered on by parties. If Trident was included in a defence review it'd go. No doubts on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Its almost as if national defence policy isn't a matter bartered on by parties. If Trident was included in a defence review it'd go. No doubts on that. Perhaps it is because the Americans wouldn't be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Perhaps it is because the Americans wouldn't be happy. And the French. NATO in general. Trident is key to NATO's nuclear policy. But lets be honest, it should go. Its an embarrassingly costly program with little need or use. I'd happily defend getting shot of it at a NATO summit. We need the most minimal nuclear deterrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The SNP won't go into any formal coalition. Labour will be nowhere near a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Vote SNP, get Tory. Interesting read - "AN SNP surge across Scotland would hand David Cameron the keys to 10 Downing Street on May 7, according to the most detailed General Election analysis to date." http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/scottish-politics/academic-snp-surge-will-hand-david-cameron-general-election-win.1422885020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Vote SNP, get Tory. Interesting read - "AN SNP surge across Scotland would hand David Cameron the keys to 10 Downing Street on May 7, according to the most detailed General Election analysis to date." http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/scottish-politics/academic-snp-surge-will-hand-david-cameron-general-election-win.1422885020 You're a tory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Vote SNP, get Tory. Interesting read - "AN SNP surge across Scotland would hand David Cameron the keys to 10 Downing Street on May 7, according to the most detailed General Election analysis to date." http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/scottish-politics/academic-snp-surge-will-hand-david-cameron-general-election-win.1422885020 Blue tory , Red tory it doesnt really matter who wins the English election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 the man accused of being a Tory is hard to pin down. Big fan of the Daily Telegraph and also basically aligned with John McTernan, Jim Murphy's spin doctor. who are these people and what are they up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Vote SNP, get Tory. Interesting read - "AN SNP surge across Scotland would hand David Cameron the keys to 10 Downing Street on May 7, according to the most detailed General Election analysis to date." http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/scottish-politics/academic-snp-surge-will-hand-david-cameron-general-election-win.1422885020 Assuming that the SNP vote against the Tories in the vote of confidence, the article makes little sense. Propping up the Tories would be the quickest way to piss off many or most of those who voted Yes and who have abandoned Labour post-referendum. Edited February 3, 2015 by Socrates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So is the Brown/Murphy Super Double Plus Vow the latest sign of Labour panic, or is it actually setting the stage for Labour/SNP negotiations post-election? I mean now that Labour has, in its own words, gone further than Smith, that kind of means it isn't fixed in stone any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Labour are an embarrassment. Is there not a danger that in their desperation to keep the Labour voters who voted yes on-side they are in danger of alienating those Labour supporters who voted no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Labour are an embarrassment. Is there not a danger that in their desperation to keep the Labour voters who voted yes on-side they are in danger of alienating those Labour supporters who voted no? There may well be. Then again, their immediate problem is that if they can't get a decent chunk of the Yes vote, then they are ****ed regardless of whether they lose some of the No vote too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Labour are an embarrassment. Is there not a danger that in their desperation to keep the Labour voters who voted yes on-side they are in danger of alienating those Labour supporters who voted no? They certainly need to up their game. I suggest that JX2 stands for office. He would inject a bit of sense into them and he is a labour voter who voted Yes (sorry JX2, but you have been quite open about that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 They certainly need to up their game. I suggest that JX2 stands for office. He would inject a bit of sense into them and he is a labour voter who voted Yes (sorry JX2, but you have been quite open about that) They also need more members. Maybe the time has come for you to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 They also need more members. Maybe the time has come for you to join. Go on the mag we all know you'd sell your soul for an snp defeat, sure I'd read on other threads you'd consider tactically voting labour.....imagine your seethe knowing you voted the snp in the back door. *pleasing* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 They also need more members. Maybe the time has come for you to join. Do members actually mean anything though? Unless with each member you also get a foot soldier I don't see what the benefit is. Go on the mag we all know you'd sell your soul for an snp defeat, sure I'd read on other threads you'd consider tactically voting labour.....imagine your seethe knowing you voted the snp in the back door. *pleasing* I just want to see Britain rid of nationalists - be that the SNP, UKIP or the BNP or any other party that actively promotes division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Do members actually mean anything though? Unless with each member you also get a foot soldier I don't see what the benefit is. I just want to see Britain rid of nationalists - be that the SNP, UKIP or the BNP or any other party that actively promotes division. Members also have to pay money, which is useful. Labour do have a real problem with a lack of bodies to do work, while the SNP aren't short of people to do stalls, leafleting, canvassing and so on. How much of a difference that makes is kind of unclear, although both main UK parties have a load of constituency parties on the verge of collapse due to lack of numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 "Unless something changes soon, Scottish Labour is doomed." http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/02/unless-something-changes-soon-scottish-labour-is-doomed/ Good piece by Massie here. It has a few digs at the SNP support too which is pleasing. I particularly enjoyed this chestnut that displays just what we are now dealing with in Scotland. "Now, as it happens, the poll also reveals a measure of delusion amongst SNP supporters. Fully 56 percent of them, for instance, believe plummeting oil prices are neither good nor bad for Scotland and if you ever needed an impressive demonstration of the power of groupthink then, well, there you have it." 56%?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Well, given lower oil prices also means lower costs for consumers, it clearly isn't overly good or overly bad: thanks for playing anyway, though. And if the UK government hadn't spunked the revenues up the wall in the '70s and '80s, instead saving for the future, it wouldn't be a bad thing in the slightest. Edited February 3, 2015 by Cast No Shadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, given lower oil prices also means lower costs for consumers, it clearly isn't overly good or overly bad: thanks for playing anyway, though. And if the UK government hadn't spunked the revenues up the wall in the '70s and '80s, instead saving for the future, it wouldn't be a bad thing in the slightest. I thought it might be westminster's fault. Do you think the Scottish government would like the oil price at $50 per barrel or $150 per barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So is the Brown/Murphy Super Double Plus Vow the latest sign of Labour panic, or is it actually setting the stage for Labour/SNP negotiations post-election? I mean now that Labour has, in its own words, gone further than Smith, that kind of means it isn't fixed in stone any more. The latter. Labour is signalling it'll be open to discussions on the scope of Smith. For purposes of the economic stabilisers of the union it is reluctant to go to fiscal autonomy. In effect it doesn't want to see the door opened by the Tories to rip up the automatic Treasury move of money from London to the North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Labour are an embarrassment. Is there not a danger that in their desperation to keep the Labour voters who voted yes on-side they are in danger of alienating those Labour supporters who voted no? And where do they go? The tag Red Tories has long been applied by the far left. But as Neil Findlay remarked in the leadership election there's not a fag paper between 90% of Labour and SNP policies. So I guess they are Yellow Tories? The word I'm hearing from the SNP members who are screwed on and have been fretful over all these new members are saying the Lord Ashcroft polling per constituency in Scotland is not as rosy as national polls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No need to worry labour folks Jimbob says a few days before May 7th were all gonna change our minds.....and vote liebour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 And where do they go? The tag Red Tories has long been applied by the far left. But as Neil Findlay remarked in the leadership election there's not a fag paper between 90% of Labour and SNP policies. So I guess they are Yellow Tories? The word I'm hearing from the SNP members who are screwed on and have been fretful over all these new members are saying the Lord Ashcroft polling per constituency in Scotland is not as rosy as national polls. & as Massie says - if they are Red Tories - why are the SNP talking about going into government with them? It's typical SNP rubbish that their followers drink up without thinking & then repeat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's childish politics but it's ridiculous for any Tory or Labour voter to take the high ground on it when those two parties have spent the past 3 decades ensuring it's the only variety of politics that sticks. Don't hate the player hate the game or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Wouldn't be nice if people discussed issues rather than the current us vs you. Boring and sad. When I said people I meant everyone but especially politicians. Edited February 3, 2015 by IMac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I thought it might be westminster's fault. Do you think the Scottish government would like the oil price at $50 per barrel or $150 per barrel? Erm, the oil price clearly isn't Westminster's fault. Their complete and utter failure with the resource since the 1970s, however, is. The SNP would obviously want it as high as possibly, but that wasn't the question asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's childish politics but it's ridiculous for any Tory or Labour voter to take the high ground on it when those two parties have spent the past 3 decades ensuring it's the only variety of politics that sticks. Don't hate the player hate the game or something. Not trying to. Just saying on all sides it's purile politics devoid of reality. As imac says issues need discussed. But when you do they obviously take a tinge of political colouring. For example, not a fan of a local council tax freeze, but that doesn't make me wholly anti-SNP. Politics has been consensual in the UK, in effect all parties worth their salt have followed the neoliberal agenda to vary degrees. Could argue Plaid, Greens and UKIP don't out all the parties. But the SNP have since they became a party of government. Labour has and the Tories. Really just how compassionate you are which separated them in exposing punters to the wilds of the market. To me, the electoral system needs reformed to break that. PR needs brought in to manage that. Weakens the chances of majority Tory government and gives the far left a bigger chance of influencing the government. Of course in Scotland that means we either need to see the SNP slump and vacate space to their left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No need to worry labour folks Jimbob says a few days before May 7th were all gonna change our minds.....and vote liebour. Again not the point I made. And that comment he made was stupid. Facing a landslide defeat gave him wriggle room, backs to the wall, hard fight etc. If they don't hold a majority of Scottish seats after this, or most but not a majority, then he's failed. The point was that the polling suggests in some seats the swing predicted won't be enough to dislodge Labour MPs. It'll make the seats marginals but Labour will hold. In some seats, regional variances not accounted for of late are suggesting LibDems in rural Scotland may vote Tory and could force the SNP into second. Not all roses for the SNP. And not all black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Cya, Danny. :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Wee Dougie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Possible leaked Ashcroft polling: http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ Astounding, really. Edited February 3, 2015 by Joe Biden's Aviators Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'm in bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If any of that is true and from the real report, Murphy has dug his grave with his comments on seat numbers. Just finished watching Inside the Commons, new documentary as part of the taking liberties season on the BBC. Excellent 1st episode of the season. Charles Kennedy very good on it. Humanises MPs. Shows archaic practices but I'm sure Holyroods ways in time will equally become dated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If any of that is true It is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It is. Apart from a few JPEG links I see nothing corroborating it being an actual leak. Not denying its a crap poll for Labour. But it's been a crap 7 years for Scottish Labour. Politics is circular. Power corrupts and makes you arrogant. Pete Wishart gets more and more arrogant with each majority he wins. The arrogance and lack of talking to people which affected Labour will affect the SNP in time. In fact SNP members I know aren't happy woth how tight a ship the SNP is running under Sturgeon. Husband chief executive officer and party officers in key posts close to the cabinet. Ideal. Same errors Scottish Labour made. Too close a clique at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 astounding it is I'd also like to congratulate the poster for putting this up on Kickback, couldn't find it anywhere else!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Apart from a few JPEG links I see nothing corroborating it being an actual leak. Not denying its a crap poll for Labour. But it's been a crap 7 years for Scottish Labour. It's not a leak as such: his web server directories simply aren't secured and with a bit of know-how they can be got at manually. Politics is circular. Power corrupts and makes you arrogant. Pete Wishart gets more and more arrogant with each majority he wins. The arrogance and lack of talking to people which affected Labour will affect the SNP in time. In fact SNP members I know aren't happy woth how tight a ship the SNP is running under Sturgeon. Husband chief executive officer and party officers in key posts close to the cabinet. Ideal. Same errors Scottish Labour made. Too close a clique at the top. Well, it took about 45 years for it to happen to Labour, so we'll be an independent sovereign nation long before then. Edited February 3, 2015 by Cast No Shadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's not a leak as such: his web server directories simply aren't secured and with a bit of know-how they can be got at manually. Well, it took about 45 years for it to happen to Labour, so we'll be an independent sovereign nation long before then. Honestly don't understand this want to see parties die. You're killing political plurality. I'm glad we've got Tories, Liberals and Greens in Scotland. Adds to the debate and allows us to hear all views. The SNP could win independence tomorrow, I'd still not vote for a party centralising local government and passing totally inept and terribly drafted laws from football songs to police reform. Just isn't my cup of tea to not be liberal on justice and anti-local democracy. Scottish politics is just not about ideas and debate on the shape and scope of the state and how we relate to it and the way services operate, a left-right debate of ideas. We are debating, constantly, at ad nauseum "Scotland", Scottishness, who stands up for Scotland best and being Scottish. It's a nationalistic debate. It equates a trade union dispute in a refinery to an issue of the nation, not one of jobs, the shape of the economy and working terms. It equates welfare to a single national idea of what that is and how it should work rather than questioning that idea and offering constructive reforms. It's so tiring and nonsense. More SNP MPs talking about Scotland more and jumping about on issues as they arise with little ideology behind them or coherent narrative than Scottishness is a risk. They become a bidding war. Power for powers sake is never a good nor helpful concept, applies to devolution and politics equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 An English friend of mine equated the SNP winning a Scottish majority to the rest of the UK to UKIP winning a UK election to the EU. Can see the logic there neatly from an English view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cast No Shadow Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 ^^^ Word salad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Delighted to see cretins like Curran and both Alexander's are set to lose their seats according to Ashcrofts polling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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