Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You lot are going to cause a Conservative government. I hope you get squarely blamed for it, too. The most dishonest, opportunist, unnecessary, destructive political "movement" in Scotland's modern history. I'm confused. I thought it had been proven that how Scotland votes rarely influenced the make-up of control at Westminster. Now on one side we have the SNP fan boys claiming that Scotland is going to call all the shots and on the other, traditional Labour sheeple saying that voting SNP will let the Tories in! Bizarre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You lot are going to cause a Conservative government. I hope you get squarely blamed for it, too. The most dishonest, opportunist, unnecessary, destructive political "movement" in Scotland's modern history. I think your last para, describes the Blair governments to tee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You lot are going to cause a Conservative government. I hope you get squarely blamed for it, too. The most dishonest, opportunist, unnecessary, destructive political "movement" in Scotland's modern history. Desperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm confused. I thought it had been proven that how Scotland votes rarely influenced the make-up of control at Westminster. Now on one side we have the SNP fan boys claiming that Scotland is going to call all the shots and on the other, traditional Labour sheeple saying that voting SNP will let the Tories in! Bizarre! No, not bizarre, don't be glib, Geoff. If the numbers are within a certain range, it will be decisive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Desperation. It'll be heaped on your heads as well. Poverty for Scots, caused by the SNP's pointless existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/18/uk-admits-unlawfully-monitoring-legally-privileged-communications If you have nothing to hide etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Questipn Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 It'll be heaped on your heads as well. Poverty for Scots, caused by the SNP's pointless existence. The Labour Party has been the most destructive force in Scotland for decades. The last desperate attempts to rescue the situation are embarrasing. I'll be delighted to see them ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 The moronic, panting, messianic public deserve it. This is the public you lauded for voting No, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcjambo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You lot are going to cause a Conservative government. Hope so - we need stability and proper running of the economy. No chance of that under any other party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Truth hurt, face it Scottish Labour are dead. 40+ seats come May, Eck DPM, will play Ed like a violin, how good. They don't want coalition. They want supply and confidence. Eck will be the loudest voice at Westminster for the SNP, but he won't get a sniff of the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Have you considered people are voting SNP with a longer-term aim rather than who is PM for the next 5 years? They don't need to wait. If they win the popular vote and seats in Scotland under the May election why not use that as a platform for independnece? Don't wait 5 years. What about free in 2016? In heaven by 2017? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No, not bizarre, don't be glib, Geoff. If the numbers are within a certain range, it will be decisive.So explain why a SNP voter should vote Labour when Tories aid their cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 They don't need to wait. If they win the popular vote and seats in Scotland under the May election why not use that as a platform for independnece? Don't wait 5 years. What about free in 2016? In heaven by 2017? Why wait for a vote? Just declare independence. The Gowd feel it in their gut. Jim Sillars guarding the border against English invaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So explain why a SNP voter should vote Labour when Tories aid their cause? No matter the harm to Scottish people, independence is the only thing. Unless you want a Conservative government, vote Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No matter the harm to Scottish people, independence is the only thing. Unless you want a Conservative government, vote Labour. Like in 2010? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Desperation. As I said to you, the new wave of members don't distinguish between Labour and the Tories. They are one and the same to these people. Which is blatantly not true when you look at policies to be enacted post May. The SNP are saying two things to two people: 1. Yes voters, vote SNP. If you're Green vote SNP, if you're Labour for Indy vote SNP etc. we will hold the Westminster class to account. We will get the deal Scotland needs and damn the consequences. It doesn't matter who wins, it's for Scotland you vote SNP. Who cares who wins, we're irrelevant down there anyway. 2. Labour No voters. Vote SNP, Get Labour. Vote SNP and we will pull Labour left. We will end austerity and never work with the Tories on anything. We'll be the big player, our seats matter. The two don't add up and can't be said in the same face. You can't be kingmaker and irrelevant and you can't be open to working with whoever for the Scottish interest alone and only want to work with Labour. If they end up working with one choice, a Cameron minority government, becuase we can't second guess the English and Welsh and Northern Irish publics intentions that they'll go left with Labour, what then? Do they refuse to countenance working with them full stop. Probably forcing a second election and a possible Tory majority. Or do they relent, work with them and be the 'Scottish' party like say DUP and just get the best deal for Scotland that they can from the Tories, who'd likely concede a lot to hurt Labour. I think if we wake up on the day after the election and Cameron struts up to the Queen to take his seal of office again, Sturgeon and Salmond in London will be happy to work with them. Not scaremongering. It helps them. Labour is buggered. It's not in power in London and can't show what Labour can do for Scotland, and the SNP have the bogeyman in office to run a second referendum after 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Like in 2010? So we're back to the Scottish vote is irrelevant rather than the SNP kingmaker theory with 40+ seats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So we're back to the Scottish vote is irrelevant rather than the SNP kingmaker theory with 40+ seats? It seems strange we should view ourselves as part of a block vote. I'm gonna vote for the candidate and party i want to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosscoC Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 So we're back to the Scottish vote is irrelevant rather than the SNP kingmaker theory with 40+ seats? All I'm saying is you lot keep saying you have to vote Labour or be stuck with Tories. Did the majority of Scots not vote Labour at the last General Election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 It seems strange we should view ourselves as part of a block vote. I'm gonna vote for the candidate and party i want to win. As you should. But I am not one for viewing scottish seats as a block vote. It is SNP policy to use Scottish seats as a block vote to hold Westminster's feet to the fire. If the yes vote voted for the parties of yes broadly, so we got 5 Greens, 25 SNP and a few SSP alongside the unionists I'd be delighted. It'd be a pluralist vote reflecting yes and no and showing Scotland had a breadth of political views. Yes maybe that also means the Tories. Happy for Labour to loose seats to create a more balanced and pluralistic representation of Scotland. But to kilter it from one lot to the other to me isn't healthy or reflective of Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 All I'm saying is you lot keep saying you have to vote Labour or be stuck with Tories. Did the majority of Scots not vote Labour at the last General Election? No. 42% did. Or at least 42% of the voting public did. So in effect Scotland didn't vote Labour by a majority. It voted Labour as the biggest minority. I support electoral reform to see a change in how parties win seats to give a fairer reflection of people's votes. 19% voted SNP and 16% voted Tory. Neither got a fair share of the seats from that. My issue is, you vote Labour to get a centre left party, not for Scotland or for England or for Britain or for Europe, but for Labour. The SNP aren't like that. You vote SNP for Scotland. But I don't know what that is. Scotland is a place not a political belief and policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 When the likes of Heseltine mock Sturgeon on the subject of "when" Scots MPs should vote in Westminster it goes to show that Tory MPs just don't respect Scots MPs despite having their arse handed to them in Scotland for decades. The 2015 election could bring about major positive change in how the SNP are treated by Westminster. It will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 When the likes of Heseltine mock Sturgeon on the subject of "when" Scots MPs should vote in Westminster it goes to show that Tory MPs just don't respect Scots MPs despite having their arse handed to them in Scotland for decades. The 2015 election could bring about major positive change in how the SNP are treated by Westminster. It will be interesting. Heseltine was a glorious politician. Sturgeon is a whining embarrassment. My first dog will be called Heseltine - Tynie for short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Your first vote in GE is this may, so what do know about heseltine in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm looking forward to five more years of David Cameron. They have done a good job. Without Clegg being a millstone around his neck I expect his government's economic recovery to accelerate, crime to continue to fall and quality of life to increase. Life's always better under a Conservative government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 When the likes of Heseltine mock Sturgeon on the subject of "when" Scots MPs should vote in Westminster it goes to show that Tory MPs just don't respect Scots MPs despite having their arse handed to them in Scotland for decades. The 2015 election could bring about major positive change in how the SNP are treated by Westminster. It will be interesting. Did you not look at the figures above? SNP = 19 % Tory =16% If you want to explain how that is getting your arse handed to you, I'd be delighted to listen. Especially when the SNP regard a 10 % chasm as a close run thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 @blairmcdougall: People will be pretty angry if a combination of other parties try to prevent the leading party from forming a government. #VoteSNPgetTories Then from his boss in 2010..... Speaking at a post-election press conference in Glasgow he said as the sitting PM, Mr Brown had the "constitutional and moral right" to try to form a government. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8668114.stm http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/labour-chief-dupes-snp-backers-5194054 Top trolling by McDougall making Wings and various assorted Nats looking like a shower of dafties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Nicola didn't deal with the Nuclear discussion on QT very well but otherwise it was pretty much as you expect from her. And it's quite right for rUK MPs to question if and when Scottish MPs should be allowed to vote on matters which are rUK only due to devolution settlements. Given the SNP's entire mantra is that there should be transfer of powers so that all decisions effecting Scotland are made in Scotland (by them), it seems very odd to me that there is such a big issue about rUK politicians wanting rUK issues to be decided at Westminster by rUK MPs, or that the SNP want to take part by selling their votes to whoever will give them the best concessions. The wonderous hypocrisy of politicians across the spectrum never ceases. Nice stuff coming from the lovely Ruth on making it easier/more flexible to use the free childcare places. Edited February 20, 2015 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If the SNP want to vote on England-only matters, the Scottish Parliament should be abloished to allow English MPs to vote on Scottish matters. Come now, fair's fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm looking forward to five more years of David Cameron. They have done a good job. Without Clegg being a millstone around his neck I expect his government's economic recovery to accelerate, crime to continue to fall and quality of life to increase. Life's always better under a Conservative government. Here fishy, fishy.... You still bevvied from last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Here fishy, fishy.... You still bevvied from last night? The post you are quoting is a contender for post of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You lot are going to cause a Conservative government. I hope you get squarely blamed for it, too. The most dishonest, opportunist, unnecessary, destructive political "movement" in Scotland's modern history. I know, imagine wanting what is best for Scotland, it will never catch on. As for your first bit, we have had Labour majorities in Scotland all my life and we have had Tories in power at Westminster more times than i can remember. The whole argument against the SNP is 'vote SNP get Tories' from labour and 'vote SNP get Labour' from the Tories. Shows how totally out of positive arguments these 2 parties are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It'll be heaped on your heads as well. Poverty for Scots, caused by the SNP's pointless existence. oh dear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Why wait for a vote? Just declare independence. The Gowd feel it in their gut. Jim Sillars guarding the border against English invaders. grow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If the SNP want to vote on England-only matters, the Scottish Parliament should be abloished to allow English MPs to vote on Scottish matters. Come now, fair's fair. so what about Scottish Tories and labour MPS who have voted on English-only matters for years while the SNP have always refused to vote on these. Your ire should be against these Labour/Tory MPs not the SNP. Again last night Nicola Sturgeon said that the SNP would not vote on purely english matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I know, imagine wanting what is best for Scotland, it will never catch on. As for your first bit, we have had Labour majorities in Scotland all my life and we have had Tories in power at Westminster more times than i can remember. The whole argument against the SNP is 'vote SNP get Tories' from labour and 'vote SNP get Labour' from the Tories. Shows how totally out of positive arguments these 2 parties are No- they want what is best for the SNP and , lets remember, a minority of Scots. It seems to be vogue to suggest that the SNP somehow speaks for the country- it does not "the 45" are not the only inhabitants north of the wall remember- and much as Nippy hates it , the "55" are just as Scottish as she is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No- they want what is best for the SNP and , lets remember, a minority of Scots. It seems to be vogue to suggest that the SNP somehow speaks for the country- it does not "the 45" are not the only inhabitants north of the wall remember- and much as Nippy hates it , the "55" are just as Scottish as she is They are the party in power at holyrood, on the basis that the government speaks for the county, then they do. Nothing to do with vogue, just things being what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 No- they want what is best for the SNP and , lets remember, a minority of Scots. It seems to be vogue to suggest that the SNP somehow speaks for the country- it does not "the 45" are not the only inhabitants north of the wall remember- and much as Nippy hates it , the "55" are just as Scottish as she is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You lot are going to cause a Conservative government. I hope you get squarely blamed for it, too. The most dishonest, opportunist, unnecessary, destructive political "movement" in Scotland's modern history. Scotland voted LABOUR in: 1970 1979 1983 1987 1992 2010 And yet the Tories somehow STILL got in. Explain how voting for the SNP will get the Tories in again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 They are the party in power at holyrood, on the basis that the government speaks for the county, then they do. Nothing to do with vogue, just things being what they are. They are in power on a temporary basis- transient and passing through. Yet seek permanent and irrevocable change to the nation based on the whim of a minority. Yet even when the majority speaks, ignore it. If they stopped trying to write history, and listened a bit more, and concentrated on their job a bit better, they would go up in my estimates again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 As a wee side note, a John Pilger quote: (Political journalist & documentary film maker). "The major western democracies are moving towards corporatism. Democracy has become a business plan, with a bottom line for every human activity, every dream, every decency, even hope. The main parliamentary policies are now devoted to the same economic policies - socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor - and the same foreign policy of servility to endless war. This is not democracy. It is to politics what McDonald's is to food". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Scotland voted LABOUR in: 1970 1979 1983 1987 1992 2010 And yet the Tories somehow STILL got in. Explain how voting for the SNP will get the Tories in again??? Who cares? if the tories get in then so be it. We have devolved parliament that means the Scots can prioritise on a fixed budget- good But the Tories can act as a bulwark against the SNP doing a Greece/Spain/Ireland If they think austerity has harmed our poor- look at the poor elsewhere in Europe- homeless, food less, jobless, in Athens people are handing their kids in for adoption FFS. even the vulnerable here have been protected relative to most of our European neighbours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 They are in power on a temporary basis- transient and passing through. Yet seek permanent and irrevocable change to the nation based on the whim of a minority. Yet even when the majority speaks, ignore it. If they stopped trying to write history, and listened a bit more, and concentrated on their job a bit better, they would go up in my estimates again So what's the alternative? There is none! Tory & Labour are EXACTLY the same as each other. LIb Dems are a shambles I would suggest either the Greens or the SNP are the only ones remotely worth voting for. Scotland is a 2 party race (SNP & Labour) England is also a 2 party race (Tory & Labour). Its BORING!!! like the old firm winning the league every year!!! We need a party by and for the people NOT one by and for themselves and the corporate world. Giving serious consideration to not voting this year. make as much difference as none TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Who cares? if the tories get in then so be it. We have devolved parliament that means the Scots can prioritise on a fixed budget- good But the Tories can act as a bulwark against the SNP doing a Greece/Spain/Ireland If they think austerity has harmed our poor- look at the poor elsewhere in Europe- homeless, food less, jobless, in Athens people are handing their kids in for adoption FFS. even the vulnerable here have been protected relative to most of our European neighbours So what's your point? Vote tory and we will be laughing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Careful doctor jambo we have our resident nationist hater on JKB already we can't have you upstarts out hating the mag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So what's the alternative? There is none! Tory & Labour are EXACTLY the same as each other. LIb Dems are a shambles I would suggest either the Greens or the SNP are the only ones remotely worth voting for. Scotland is a 2 party race (SNP & Labour) England is also a 2 party race (Tory & Labour). Its BORING!!! like the old firm winning the league every year!!! We need a party by and for the people NOT one by and for themselves and the corporate world. Giving serious consideration to not voting this year. make as much difference as none TBH. A party by and for the people- that's not the SNP or the Greens then- the people don't want them to have full autonomy and even when combined still lost. The people get what the people want- mediocrity- safety and stability and reliability. Its bland, its not exciting, but it means a stable and predictable set of policies that allow people to largely exist unbothered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Labour are simply getting what they deserve for taking Scotland for granted for years. All this cry baby stuff about SNP voters causing a Tory government is pathetic. Labour have become a laughable political party and they have nothing to convince people to vote for them except some daft scare-mongering about what might happen. Heard that from them before, mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 They are in power on a temporary basis- transient and passing through. Yet seek permanent and irrevocable change to the nation based on the whim of a minority. Yet even when the majority speaks, ignore it. If they stopped trying to write history, and listened a bit more, and concentrated on their job a bit better, they would go up in my estimates again All these things are nice, but not germaine to what we're discussing. None of what you said stops the fact that it's fair to say that the snp speak for the people of scotland on the basis that the government does that. You said they don't, but they do and you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Labour are simply getting what they deserve for taking Scotland for granted for years. All this cry baby stuff about SNP voters causing a Tory government is pathetic. Labour have become a laughable political party and they have nothing to convince people to vote for them except some daft scare-mongering about what might happen. Heard that from them before, mind... As will the SNP in time as the new "establishment " party. the arrogance and lack of accountability has already started give them their dues they are fast learners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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