****The All In One LGBTQ+ & Related Issues Mega Thread****

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Locky said:

No idea tbf.  If men and women weren't labelled as such though, how would we know who's gay and who's straight?

Course it does. I'm a heterosexual man. Which means I'm attracted only to the opposite gender. You, as I believe but forgive me if I'm wrong, are a homosexual man, therefore only attracted to the same gender as yourself. Sexuality and gender go hand in hand.

No they do not go hand in hand. A gay is  male who is attracted to other gay men ( male).  Gender is a feeling.  You can be a man and " feel " your gender is female.  Nonsense but thats their argument. 

[Locky]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

No your attracted to the opposite sex. 

Okay, so forgive me then as I'm obviously in need of education, but what is the difference between sex and gender?

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, Locky said:

No idea tbf.  If men and women weren't labelled as such though, how would we know who's gay and who's straight?

 

Yep, fair points.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

And other post that perfectly proves my point, but anyway.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone of anything, I don't realy care if you accept my views or not, I'm replying to your posts with what is my view.

As far as having "the law of the land" on your side, that'll be the laws that at one time allowed children to be forced into doing dangerous manual labour in factory's and farms and up chimneys from the age of 12 but are now allowing children of the same age to undergo life changing sex change procedures? Hopefully the law changes in the same way soon.

 

My god. Hes getting more manic with each " argument".  Yeah the law of the land allowing people to infiltrate women's only safe spaces. Some bloody law isn't it?  But as you say changes are a coming. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Locky said:

Okay, so forgive me then as I'm obviously in need of education, but what is the difference between sex and gender?

Sex is immutable.  It cannot be changed. it never will change.  You are male or female for the rest of your life,  It means it what you are born with. Ie born a male or female.  

 

Gender is a " feeling ".  Your sex can be male  * physically but " feel " you are female.  How one can feel they are the other sex is plainly ludicrous and is usually based on harmful stereotypes. Like a boy maybe liking wearing make up automatically makes him a girl as in gender? NO it doesnt its a lad wearing make up.

 

[CF11JamTart]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I think there has been a 4000 % increase in referrals to the Tavistock clinic in London for kids who are thinking they are trans.  This is a  very odd phenomena compared to 20 years ago so it leads some to think its a fad,  The good news fads come and go.  

 I am pretty sure that I read that there is a disproportionate number of girls being referred. 

 

What's going on with society that moves girls around puberty to decide that they are not girls and are actually boys? 

 

How much support are these girls being given? 

 

 

Like.... 

 

Puberty is rubbish and you don't like the changes to your body. .. But you'll get through it. It doesn't make you trans. 

Fancy girls? OK... You may well be gay or bi. But who cares... It doesn't make you trans. 

Enjoy doing "boys stuff" (as per lazy crass stereotypes)? That's great. Do whatever you want to do. It doesn't make you trans. 

 

Really difficult to deal with, but boshing down the Travistock route and medical intervention should not be the default option for these yong woman. 

 

Of course, talking about it with the girl is probably viewed as Conversion therapy. 

 

 

 

[Taffin]

16 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

No argument with that but that's not quite the same as gender dysphoria.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

 

ps. The sarcasm was in response to your ridiculous comment which deserved the response it got.

 

"Gender is a joke and the sooner we move away from it the better imo."

 

I don't think it is ridiculous. What benefit does it serve? Other than to make people feel uncomfortable and that they should like things aligned to their gender?

 

Gender dysphoria is exactly that. People feeling there's something wrong with them because society has attached some made up gender norms to their biological sex. That serves nobody, move away from gender norms and people can feel comfortable in who they are, regardless of what they are.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Taffin

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

 

Of course, talking about it with the girl is probably viewed as Conversion therapy. 

 

 

 

 

And that's a massive problem.

[hughesie27]

46 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Another good article

 

The Left's Gender Theories Are Anti-Scientific Nonsense (dailysignal.com)

 

“Stop doing gender reveals,” he stated. “They’re not cute; they’re violent. All we know before a child is born is their anatomy. They will reveal their gender. It may match your expectations of that anatomy, and it may not. If you love the child you will be patience, attentive and open.”

 

 

 

Can fully get behind the banning on gender reveal parties.

[graygo]

20 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

And other post that perfectly proves my point, but anyway.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone of anything, I don't realy care if you accept my views or not, I'm replying to your posts with what is my view.

As far as having "the law of the land" on your side, that'll be the laws that at one time allowed children to be forced into doing dangerous manual labour in factory's and farms and up chimneys from the age of 12 but are now allowing children of the same age to undergo life changing sex change procedures? Hopefully the law changes in the same way soon.

 

Fairly jumped the shark with that comparison, completely different scenarios.

 

It's a lengthy process of diagnosis before any procedure is offered, maybe you should read up on it, try to understand it before making flippant comments. Someone posted earlier in the thread about suicide amongst children with gender issues who don't get the help and support they need.

 

https://gids.nhs.uk/

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

Fairly jumped the shark with that comparison, completely different scenarios.

 

It's a lengthy process of diagnosis before any procedure is offered, maybe you should read up on it, try to understand it before making flippant comments. Someone posted earlier in the thread about suicide amongst children with gender issues who don't get the help and support they need.

 

https://gids.nhs.uk/

So the law doesn't allow teenagers to go through sex change procedures?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020

Edited July 18, 2022 by Dawnrazor

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

But that's the thing, some people claim you can. 

They do, but they’ve no right to claim that - nor do they have any right to use ‘trans rights’ as a defence of them trying to do whatever they like. 

[Dick Dastardly]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

They do, but they’ve no right to claim that - nor do they have any right to use ‘trans rights’ as a defence of them trying to do whatever they like. 

Why don't they have the right to claim that? Just because you or i may not agree that doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong, does it? 

I'm also not sure that people are using trans rights to do anything they want. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

 I am pretty sure that I read that there is a disproportionate number of girls being referred. 

 

What's going on with society that moves girls around puberty to decide that they are not girls and are actually boys? 

 

How much support are these girls being given? 

 

 

Like.... 

 

Puberty is rubbish and you don't like the changes to your body. .. But you'll get through it. It doesn't make you trans. 

Fancy girls? OK... You may well be gay or bi. But who cares... It doesn't make you trans. 

Enjoy doing "boys stuff" (as per lazy crass stereotypes)? That's great. Do whatever you want to do. It doesn't make you trans. 

 

Really difficult to deal with, but boshing down the Travistock route and medical intervention should not be the default option for these yong woman. 

 

Of course, talking about it with the girl is probably viewed as Conversion therapy. 

 

 

 

 

In a nutshell . Well said. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I don't think it is ridiculous. What benefit does it serve? Other than to make people feel uncomfortable and that they should like things aligned to their gender?

 

Gender dysphoria is exactly that. People feeling there's something wrong with them because society has attached some made up gender norms to their biological sex. That serves nobody, move away from gender norms and people can feel comfortable in who they are, regardless of what they are.

Yep,

[Locky]

18 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Sex is immutable.  It cannot be changed. it never will change.  You are male or female for the rest of your life,  It means it what you are born with. Ie born a male or female.  

 

Gender is a " feeling ".  Your sex can be male  * physically but " feel " you are female.  How one can feel they are the other sex is plainly ludicrous and is usually based on harmful stereotypes. Like a boy maybe liking wearing make up automatically makes him a girl as in gender? NO it doesnt its a lad wearing make up.

 

Okay, I'm with you on the definitions. It does make sense, but I'm not entirely in agreement. A boy who maybe likes wearing make up is very much a boy wearing make up, yes. But someone who identifies as the opposite sex and has had all the required treatment, may not be biologically the sex they identify as, but should be more or less treated with respect as what they want to be, no? That in its own right is a delicate argument as I'm somewhat against things like transwomen being able to compete in women's sports or vice versa. But doesn't mean they should be treated solely as a man either.

 

Back to the gender/sexuality thing, there's still something which I don't fully understand with your outlook. If a heterosexual man meets a girl at a bar who he thought was attractive and hit it off with, before she confessed to actually being a transwoman, does it make him gay or bisexual if he continues to pursue relations with her? Again, this is where there's so many permutations for me that I am generally curious to know people outlooks.

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So the law doesn't allow teenagers to go through sex change procedures?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020

Horrifying story and brave of her  to tell her story . Ofcourse she  is now ostracised and abused by some of the trans community for telling her story.

 

"She said after three one-hour-long appointments she was prescribed puberty blockers, which delay the development of signs of puberty, like periods or facial hair."

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Locky said:

But someone who identifies as the opposite sex and has had all the required treatment, may not be biologically the sex they identify as, but should be more or less treated with respect as what they want to be, no?

Yes thats fine but it becomes rather more problematic when the boy wearing make up then demands that is his right to be in women's only spaces like changing rooms. refuges. women's only groups etc.  Therefore denying women their sex based rights. 

[Locky]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes thats fine but it becomes rather more problematic when the boy wearing make up then demands that is his right to be in women's only spaces like changing rooms. refuges. women's only groups etc.  Therefore denying women their sex based rights. 

It certainly does, and I agree, there's got to be some boundaries still in the world. I'd like to believe there aren't too many people who would do that though.

[graygo]

36 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

My god. Hes getting more manic with each " argument".  Yeah the law of the land allowing people to infiltrate women's only safe spaces. Some bloody law isn't it?  But as you say changes are a coming. 

 

Doubt it, not unless a bill is passed forcing safe unisex (non gender specific) spaces at the same time.

 

ps. He didn't say changes are a coming. He said he hopes they are.

 

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, Locky said:

 

 

Back to the gender/sexuality thing, there's still something which I don't fully understand with your outlook. If a heterosexual man meets a girl at a bar who he thought was attractive and hit it off with, before she confessed to actually being a transwoman, does it make him gay or bisexual if he continues to pursue relations with her? Again, this is where there's so many permutations for me that I am generally curious to know people outlooks.

It wouldn't make a straight man gay if chated up what he thought was a woman, if he found out a still wanted to have sex with them he have been gay or bi before?

If on finding out the person at the bar was a man dressed as a woman a straight man would not want to have sex with them.

[graygo]

34 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Sex is immutable.  It cannot be changed. it never will change.  You are male or female for the rest of your life,  It means it what you are born with. Ie born a male or female.  

 

Gender is a " feeling ".  Your sex can be male  * physically but " feel " you are female.  How one can feel they are the other sex is plainly ludicrous and is usually based on harmful stereotypes. Like a boy maybe liking wearing make up automatically makes him a girl as in gender? NO it doesnt its a lad wearing make up.

 

 

I know you have me on ignore but that needs commented on. It's quite frankly a disgusting thing for a homosexual to say when it's not too long ago your community had to fight to get rid of those thoughts about homosexuality. 

[CF11JamTart]

8 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Horrifying story and brave of her  to tell her story . Ofcourse she  is now ostracised and abused by some of the trans community for telling her story.

 

"She said after three one-hour-long appointments she was prescribed puberty blockers, which delay the development of signs of puberty, like periods or facial hair."

 

Something else from this... Follow the money. Who's benefitting from the trans industry? How much do we trust medical / healthcare / pharma to act in the individual's best interests, even if it means less income for them. 

 

Different subject, but "Empire of Pain" is with reading, about the Sackler family and the opoid industry. 

[graygo]

34 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

 I am pretty sure that I read that there is a disproportionate number of girls being referred. 

 

What's going on with society that moves girls around puberty to decide that they are not girls and are actually boys? 

 

How much support are these girls being given? 

 

 

Like.... 

 

Puberty is rubbish and you don't like the changes to your body. .. But you'll get through it. It doesn't make you trans. 

Fancy girls? OK... You may well be gay or bi. But who cares... It doesn't make you trans. 

Enjoy doing "boys stuff" (as per lazy crass stereotypes)? That's great. Do whatever you want to do. It doesn't make you trans. 

 

Really difficult to deal with, but boshing down the Travistock route and medical intervention should not be the default option for these yong woman. 

 

Of course, talking about it with the girl is probably viewed as Conversion therapy. 

 

 

Read up on it, it's not a case of you feel like a girl so you are.

 

https://gids.nhs.uk/parents-and-carers/

[Locky]

5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

It wouldn't make a straight man gay if chated up what he thought was a woman, if he found out a still wanted to have sex with them he have been gay or bi before?

If on finding out the person at the bar was a man dressed as a woman a straight man would not want to have sex with them.

Think that would be the immediate consensus, but I guess each case is different. Not saying it's something I would necessarily consider, but I'm sure there are men out there who have slept with a transwoman and still identify as straight. After all, they saw what they believed was a woman and based their attraction on that.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Locky said:

Okay, I'm with you on the definitions. It does make sense, but I'm not entirely in agreement. A boy who maybe likes wearing make up is very much a boy wearing make up, yes. But someone who identifies as the opposite sex and has had all the required treatment, may not be biologically the sex they identify as, but should be more or less treated with respect as what they want to be, no? That in its own right is a delicate argument as I'm somewhat against things like transwomen being able to compete in women's sports or vice versa. But doesn't mean they should be treated solely as a man either.

 

Back to the gender/sexuality thing, there's still something which I don't fully understand with your outlook. If a heterosexual man meets a girl at a bar who he thought was attractive and hit it off with, before she confessed to actually being a transwoman, does it make him gay or bisexual if he continues to pursue relations with her? Again, this is where there's so many permutations for me that I am generally curious to know people outlooks.

Watch this. This guy is pretty funny and hits the nail on the head with most of his videos dispelling the lunacy, 

 

The example you are talking about ? Well he clearly fancies the outer image of the person which looks like a stereotypical  female i suppose ( high heels. skirt sexy clothes etc) come to think of it why dont many trans women dress in jeans and trainers ? * its ok i know they answer.  

 

Anyway the guy fancies the outer shell which appears " female" however once the clothes are removed hes a bioligical male. If the relationship progresses to sex its a HOMO sexual relationship .  NO Matter how it is dressed. up. Pardon the pun.  The most popular porn sites online are she males. " chicks with dicks" says it all. Guys want the " best of both worlds" * used to be called BI.

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Locky said:

It certainly does, and I agree, there's got to be some boundaries still in the world. I'd like to believe there aren't too many people who would do that though.

Well there are loads and its growing sadly. Thats the main issue. 

[graygo]

25 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So the law doesn't allow teenagers to go through sex change procedures?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020

 

Where did I say that? I said that there is a lengthy assessment done before any decisions are made.

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

Something else from this... Follow the money. Who's benefitting from the trans industry? How much do we trust medical / healthcare / pharma to act in the individual's best interests, even if it means less income for them. 

 

Different subject, but "Empire of Pain" is with reading, about the Sackler family and the opoid industry. 

Ofcourse the drugs company as per usual 

[Taffin]

 

There's too much conflation of sex, gender and homosexuality on this thread for me from a couple of posters. Homosexuality has nothing to do with this issue imo.

 

I'm out.

[graygo]

26 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

They do, but they’ve no right to claim that - nor do they have any right to use ‘trans rights’ as a defence of them trying to do whatever they like. 

 

They can use what you call Trans rights to enter toilets and changing rooms that match the gender they identify as.

[CF11JamTart]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Read up on it, it's not a case of you feel like a girl so you are.

 

https://gids.nhs.uk/parents-and-carers/

I did. 

 

There's a lot of uncertainty stated  in that piece. (We don't know... We aren't sure... etc). 

 

So let's hope that Tavistock are treading carefully.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Locky said:

.....

but I'm sure there are men out there who have slept with a transwoman and still identify as straight......

I'm sure you're right, but, if they identify outwardly straight is it because they're not ready, for whatever reason, to identify as gay or bi?

I think if you get home with who you thought was a woman, found out they were infact a man then had sex, you may be bi or gay.

[CF11JamTart]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Ofcourse the drugs company as per usual 

Funny that. 

 

And consultants carving out a niche. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Locky said:

. After all, they saw what they believed was a woman and based their attraction on that.

a woman doesn't have a ^^^^ 

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

I did. 

 

There's a lot of uncertainty stated  in that piece. (We don't know... We aren't sure... etc). 

 

So let's hope that Tavistock are treading carefully.

 

I agree, that's why I get pissed off at folk using words like ludicrous, mental illness and fantasy when talking about people with gender dysphoria.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

I'm sure you're right, but, if they identify outwardly straight is it because they're not ready, for whatever reason, to identify as gay or bi?

I think if you get home with who you thought was a woman, found out they were infact a man then had sex, you may be bi or gay.

exactly for many of these men its a stepping stone to actually having a man on man experience. By that I meant they feel more comfortable at first having sex with a trans person ( i mean trans who still have the lower bits)  but then gradually evolve in the sexual experience to meeting men eventually. Its basically internalised homophobia initially really . I have a trans friend in London who has to bottom bits still and also has boobs.  They have met so many men like that. Believe me those men don't ignore his/her ^^^^ 

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'm sure you're right, but, if they identify outwardly straight is it because they're not ready, for whatever reason, to identify as gay or bi?

I think if you get home with who you thought was a woman, found out they were infact a man then had sex, you may be bi or gay.

 

What about a trans sexual, one who has had their penis removed and a vagina formed? Still a bi or gay because that person is still a man.

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Where did I say that? I said that there is a lengthy assessment done before any decisions are made.

My point, as I think you know, was the law allowed for kids to be used in dangerous situations in years gone by but the law allows kids of the same age today to go through sex change procedures, you brought up the law, I was pointing out that it's not always best for children.

A lengthy procedure? Three One hour sessions before an autistic girl of 15 was put on puberty blockers, that's hardly a "lengthy assessment " or do you think it is?

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

What about a trans sexual, one who has had their penis removed and a vagina formed? Still a bi or gay because that person is still a man.

Well that would be up to the individual, he'd be having sex with a man who has had surgery to look outwardly like a woman, not a woman.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

My point, as I think you know, was the law allowed for kids to be used in dangerous situations in years gone by but the law allows kids of the same age today to go through sex change procedures, you brought up the law, I was pointing out that it's not always best for children.

A lengthy procedure? Three One hour sessions before an autistic girl of 15 was put on puberty blockers, that's hardly a "lengthy assessment " or do you think it is?

 

I've no idea what the experts consider to be a lengthy assessment however that case posted is being challenged in court as being inappropriate so I presume that's not the norm.

 

As an aside the number of transgenders who have had treatment going back to their original gender is small, less than 3%. 0.4% detransition because they feel it was a mistake and 2.4% detransition because of social pressure. Over 97% of transgendered are happy with their decision.

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Well that would be up to the individual, he'd be having sex with a man who has had surgery to look outwardly like a woman, not a woman.

 

So you're saying he is either gay or bisexual then.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

I've no idea what the experts consider to be a lengthy assessment however that case posted is being challenged in court as being inappropriate so I presume that's not the norm.

 

As an aside the number of transgenders who have had treatment going back to their original gender is small, less than 3%. 0.4% detransition because they feel it was a mistake and 2.4% detransition because of social pressure. Over 97% of transgendered are happy with their decision.

Is that 97% made up of adults? Or teenagers of less than 16 years old?

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

So you're saying he is either gay or bisexual then.

They may be, but, as I said, that's up to the individual.

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There's too much conflation of sex, gender and homosexuality on this thread for me from a couple of posters. Homosexuality has nothing to do with this issue imo.

 

I'm out.

The thread apparently is about LGBT plus issues so I assume all topics can be discussed.  Its some people who are conflating sex with gender which is causing the problems. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

47 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There's too much conflation of sex, gender and homosexuality on this thread for me from a couple of posters. Homosexuality has nothing to do with this issue imo.

 

I'm out.

The thread Would have been better as an LGB thread. A separate trans thread should have been created . Both groups have very different issues which are sadly now muddled , ( deliberately ) 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I would agree they would be better separated out. 

Yep .

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

Is that 97% made up of adults? Or teenagers of less than 16 years old?

 

All transgenders who have had treatment of some kind.

[graygo]

50 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I would agree they would be better separated out. 

 

So would all the LGB activists in his group, the LGBTQ+ who believe in equal rights for all regardless of sex or gender wouldn't.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Why don't they have the right to claim that? Just because you or i may not agree that doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong, does it? 

I'm also not sure that people are using trans rights to do anything they want. 

Because like it or not, legal and safeguarding issues still exists. I’m not saying, for example, that non-binary people shouldn’t be allowed to use female toilets. But they don’t just get to decide that they can either. Like I say, it’s not their prerogative to dictate that decision