Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, graygo said: How about asking if they would feel threatened by a trans woman then instead of the loaded question? I've just humoured you and asked both my wife and also my sister who happens to be here just now. They think you're bonkers if you think women's rights are being eroded because a trans woman wants to sit down for a piss. You think I'm bonkers if I think womens rights are being eroded because of trans rights?!!! It's not me that thinks it It's woman!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tazio said: How does that work precisely? Rooms with cubicles only? I don’t buy into the narrative that trans people will randomly attack women in dressing rooms but I also believe some women won’t feel comfortable with people in “their spaces”. Conversely I also know a trans man who doesn’t feel confident in male toilets. You can’t deny there are a certain number of extremists out there. There was a story in the press recently about a young woman at a rape support centre in Brighton that had to stop attending as a male presenting trans woman started attending. I know someone who is one of the people mentioned previously that considers the self a woman on certain days but always dresses as a man. Should they be able to use the woman’s on the days they feel like a woman? Yes rooms with cubicles only if that's what it takes. The answer can't be to force trans women to use male toilets, that's crazy. Dresses like a man? Watch out, James doesn't like that sort of talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: But you're happy for men being in womens spaces and making them feel threatened and uncomfortable as long as the men say they're women!!!! Your all over the place on this. Where the feck did I say that? Stop making shit up. In fact I actually said this "Oh and by the way, nobody of any sex or gender has the right to make anyone else feel threatened, uncomfortable or unsafe, nobody." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, graygo said: And round we go again, women's sex based rights are not being eroded. Ok. Thanks for clarifying. Trans women on all-women shortlists? Trans women playing women's rugby? Trans women in Women's combat sports? Trans women in women's refuges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: If it's not even "topic of conversation" how about making it one with them, you might learn something. Why would I ask them about gender neutral spaces? We're talking about female only spaces and men have absolutely no right to be in them. How about asking them about gender neutral spaces? Maybe you might learn something. Mind you that normally requires an open mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, graygo said: Where the feck did I say that? Stop making shit up. In fact I actually said this "Oh and by the way, nobody of any sex or gender has the right to make anyone else feel threatened, uncomfortable or unsafe, nobody." I'm making nothing up. You did say that but the "oh and by the way" really added nothing to your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, graygo said: How about asking them about gender neutral spaces? Maybe you might learn something. Mind you that normally requires an open mind What gender neutral places? I've said that no man should be in a female space, I've also said that I'm happy for trans people, men and women using neutral spaces. My mind is open to sensible argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: Ok. Thanks for clarifying. Trans women on all-women shortlists? Trans women playing women's rugby? Trans women in Women's combat sports? Trans women in women's refuges? Yes, apparently he thinks that's all perfectly fair and no women will feel threatened or uncomfortable because his wife and sister say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: I'm perfectly happy for trans people using sex neutral changing rooms toilets, I'm perfectly happy for men and women using sex neutral changing rooms or toilets, but I don't want any man going into a female space where women are completely in their right to be and feel safe. If there's not enough of these "natural" place well build some, it's a trans persons right to feel safe as much as anyone, but if you've been born male you're male and shouldn't be in female spaces. My view too. 9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: You think I'm bonkers if I think womens rights are being eroded because of trans rights?!!! It's not me that thinks it It's woman!!!! He gets very angry and aggressive hence on the " ignore " Cannot reason with him / her / they 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: What gender neutral places? I've said that no man should be in a female space, I've also said that I'm happy for trans people, men and women using neutral spaces. My mind is open to sensible argument. Good points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: Ok. Thanks for clarifying. Trans women on all-women shortlists? I've already said I'm against this, however it doesn't erode a women's rights to take part. Trans women playing women's rugby? See above Trans women in Women's combat sports? See above. Trans women in women's refuges? Is that really an issue apart from the odd isolated instance? You would ban all trans women who need refuge from getting it because of the odd case? Would you also ban all straight men from male toilets because of attacks on gay men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: Yes, apparently he thinks that's all perfectly fair and no women will feel threatened or uncomfortable because his wife and sister say so. Laughable really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: I'm making nothing up. You did say that but the "oh and by the way" really added nothing to your answer. Yes it did, it added exactly what it said and made your comment about me being happy about men making women feel threatened ok an absurdity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Yes, apparently he thinks that's all perfectly fair and no women will feel threatened or uncomfortable because his wife and sister say so. Sorry, I'll make a bigger poll and get back to you but they were the only one's to hand. I'm pretty sure the answer won't change though. How many females did you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, graygo said: So that's nice... Women can take part. And just be happy to be on the same pitch? Against people with a competitive advantage from Male Puberty. It's OK. Women's sport is just a laugh anyway, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 So we're in agreement that we should strive to get rid of gender specific places then, that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, CF11JamTart said: So that's nice... Women can take part. And just be happy to be on the same pitch? Against people with a competitive advantage from Male Puberty. It's OK. Women's sport is just a laugh anyway, isn't it? Did you miss this bit? " I've already said I'm against this, however it doesn't erode a women's rights to take part." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: He gets very angry and aggressive hence on the " ignore " Cannot reason with him / her / they There's nobody on this forum who fits that description more than you. Reasoning with someone does not mean getting them to agree that they are wrong and you are right. I'm glad you have me on ignore as your camp GIFs get right on my tits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, graygo said: Yes it did, it added exactly what it said and made your comment about me being happy about men making women feel threatened ok an absurdity. But you're happy about men being in woman spaces despite it making some women feel threatened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, graygo said: So we're in agreement that we should strive to get rid of gender specific places then, that's good. 🤣 no we shouldn't, we should be making sure people have sex specific spaces so they can feel safe, womens refuges, or do you think men should be allowed in these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: But you're happy about men being in woman spaces despite it making some women feel threatened? I'm not happy about anyone being in any space and making anyone feel threatened, how many times do I need to say that? Are you happy for a trans woman being in a women's space if no women feel threatened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: 🤣 no we shouldn't, we should be making sure people have sex specific spaces so they can feel safe, womens refuges, or do you think men should be allowed in these? So where should a trans woman go for a piss? Do they have a right to not feel threatened? Where should a trans woman that needs refuge go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: So that's nice... Women can take part. And just be happy to be on the same pitch? Against people with a competitive advantage from Male Puberty. It's OK. Women's sport is just a laugh anyway, isn't it? The lengths women have went to to get these rights and men telling them they now have to wind their necks because men should now be in all your sports and toilets and changing rooms and refuges if beyond laughable it's actually scary how it's been allowed to get this far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, graygo said: I'm not happy about anyone being in any space and making anyone feel threatened, how many times do I need to say that? Are you happy for a trans woman being in a women's space if no women feel threatened? A Trans woman is still a man though In the bad old days they castrated young boys to make them castratos They were still boys though Treat them sympathetically? yes Are they women? No Do you think a man with the full male tackle who identifies as a woman should be allowed in a female changing room? Would your wife/sister/daughter be happy with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, graygo said: So where should a trans woman go for a piss? Do they have a right to not feel threatened? Where should a trans woman that needs refuge go? Trans women, who are men, should use male toilets until there's neutral places for them to go, I've said there should be more places for trans people to go. They have the right not to feel threatened, but they are men and should not have the right to be in womens spaces making women feel threatened, women should not suffer the loss of their rights because a man wants to live like a women. A trans woman, who are men, should go to a male refuge until a neutral space can be found, men and should not have the right to be in womens spaces making women feel threatened, women should not suffer the loss of their rights because a man wants to live like a women Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, graygo said: Sorry, I'll make a bigger poll and get back to you but they were the only one's to hand. I'm pretty sure the answer won't change though. How many females did you ask? How many? about a dozen at a BBQ recently and others at different times, it comes up often due to my social group having teenagers at school and having friends who are trans or bi or gay. Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, graygo said: There's nobody on this forum who fits that description more than you. Reasoning with someone does not mean getting them to agree that they are wrong and you are right. I'm glad you have me on ignore as your camp GIFs get right on my tits. what a state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, graygo said: There's nobody on this forum who fits that description more than you. Reasoning with someone does not mean getting them to agree that they are wrong and you are right. I'm glad you have me on ignore as your camp GIFs get right on my tits. To be fair, your post describes you pretty accurately, as well as others, but people in glass houses and all that👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said: what a state 😂😂😂 not to you though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Trans women, who are men, should use male toilets until there's neutral places for them to go, I've said there should be more places for trans people to go. They have the right not to feel threatened, but they are men and should not have the right to be in womens spaces making women feel threatened, women should not suffer the loss of their rights because a man wants to live like a women. A trans woman, who are men, should go to a male refuge until a neutral space can be found, men and should not have the right to be in womens spaces making women feel threatened, women should not suffer the loss of their rights because a man wants to live like a women It’s about womens perception of safety and threat . That’s the point of why there are safe places for women only . They might not get abused or assaulted but there is always the chance they might be and that needs respected , ( their view about it ) Edited July 17, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, JudyJudyJudy said: 😂😂😂 not to you though I think he's having a breakdown ... maybe he's on a journey ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It’s about womens perception of safety and threat . That’s the point of why there are safe places for women only . That's it exactly, it's women who are being ignored in this, it's their right to safe places that are being taking away, it's women who should be front and centre in all of this and men are telling to shut up because I feel like a women today and I want to be in you places, it's scandalous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: A Trans woman is still a man though In the bad old days they castrated young boys to make them castratos They were still boys though Treat them sympathetically? yes Are they women? No Do you think a man with the full male tackle who identifies as a woman should be allowed in a female changing room? Would your wife/sister/daughter be happy with that? I'm not going to change my answer to this question no matter how many times it's asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said: I think he's having a breakdown ... maybe he's on a journey ? I don't take his arguments lightly, I honestly don't, there's a very serious debate to be had, I think, although I my have got the wrong poster, he has a child who is trans (please forgive me if I've got this wrong) so it's obviously a very big deal to him, but I don't think his arguments are the right way to get things moving in the right way for trans people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF11JamTart Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It’s about womens perception of safety and threat . That’s the point of why there are safe places for women only . They might not get abused or assaulted but there is always the chance they might be and that needs respected , ( their view about it ) No James. It's about men deciding and telling them. And regarding sport, they should just be grateful that no-one is stopping them from playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said: what a state Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 27 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Trans women, who are men, should use male toilets until there's neutral places for them to go, I've said there should be more places for trans people to go. They have the right not to feel threatened, but they are men and should not have the right to be in womens spaces making women feel threatened, women should not suffer the loss of their rights because a man wants to live like a women. A trans woman, who are men, should go to a male refuge until a neutral space can be found, men and should not have the right to be in womens spaces making women feel threatened, women should not suffer the loss of their rights because a man wants to live like a women Because all trans women are really hairy arsed, big bollocked males out to threaten females really eh? Should the person in this photo be forced to use a male toilet and go to a male refuge if they were in need of refuge? For the avoidance of doubt the person is this photo is a friend of mine who was born a man but now identifies as female and is more feminine than most women I've ever met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: How many? about a dozen at a BBQ recently and others at different times, it comes up often due to my social group having teenagers at school and having friends who are trans or bi or gay. No danger are any of your friends trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: To be fair, your post describes you pretty accurately, as well as others, but people in glass houses and all that👍 No I'm not you are. Playground stuff mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, graygo said: Because all trans women are really hairy arsed, big bollocked males out to threaten females really eh? Should the person in this photo be forced to use a male toilet and go to a male refuge if they were in need of refuge? For the avoidance of doubt the person is this photo is a friend of mine who was born a man but now identifies as female and is more feminine than most women I've ever met. If the person in the photograph is male then yes, they should use a male toilet, looking good in a dress and heels doesn't mean you should be allowed to be in female spaces no matter how you are dressed or what you identify as, they have no right to be in a female space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said: I think he's having a breakdown ... maybe he's on a journey ? Swing and a miss champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, graygo said: No I'm not you are. Playground stuff mate. See, pretty accurate post of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, graygo said: No danger are any of your friends trans. You're right, I've four friends who are gay none are trans, but if you'd just take a breath you could see it was our kids at school who I said had trans friends. *edit* 4 friends and 1 cousin 1 second cousin and a nephew who are gay, 5 men and 1 women. Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: I don't take his arguments lightly, I honestly don't, there's a very serious debate to be had, I think, although I my have got the wrong poster, he has a child who is trans (please forgive me if I've got this wrong) so it's obviously a very big deal to him, but I don't think his arguments are the right way to get things moving in the right way for trans people. Thats because you think my argument is that women have fought long and hard for the right to have safe places and men are saying no you can't have them, we're coming in to make you feel threatened. A bairn with a biscuit erse can see that that's not what I am advocating. A solution needs found that gives everyone that right, whatever it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, graygo said: Because all trans women are really hairy arsed, big bollocked males out to threaten females really eh? Should the person in this photo be forced to use a male toilet and go to a male refuge if they were in need of refuge? For the avoidance of doubt the person is this photo is a friend of mine who was born a man but now identifies as female and is more feminine than most women I've ever met. Would ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: If the person in the photograph is male then yes, they should use a male toilet, looking good in a dress and heels doesn't mean you should be allowed to be in female spaces no matter how you are dressed or what you identify as, they have no right to be in a female space. Ok, we'll just need to agree to disagree then. Although I thought you were arguing about having the right to feel safe but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, graygo said: Thats because you think my argument is that women have fought long and hard for the right to have safe places and men are saying no you can't have them, we're coming in to make you feel threatened. A bairn with a biscuit erse can see that that's not what I am advocating. A solution needs found that gives everyone that right, whatever it takes. A bairn with a biscuit erse can see you're contradicting yourself just about on a post by post basis. Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said: No James. It's about men deciding and telling them. And regarding sport, they should just be grateful that no-one is stopping them from playing. You're still making shit up, it does nothing to add to the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, graygo said: Ok, we'll just need to agree to disagree then. Although I thought you were arguing about having the right to feel safe but there you go. I am talking about the right to feel safe, the right for women to feel safe in womens spaces and not have men invade these spaces despite how they dress or how they identify, something you fail to grasp, so there you go. Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: You're right, I've four friends who are gay none are trans, but if you'd just take a breath you could see it was our kids at school who I said had trans friends. *edit* 4 friends and 1 cousin 1 second cousin and a nephew who are gay, 5 men and 1 women. As I thought, thanks for correcting the fact that any of your friends are trans. I don't need to take a breath mate, you actually said that you had friends who were trans in the post I quoted, I didn't make it up. That's not my style. Gay people on the whole (as demonstrated frequently on here) do not think trans is even a thing never mind something that has rights. Yes I look after a kid who says they are trans but I wouldn't want to argue the case for or against kids when it comes to sexuality or gender as they definitely can be going through a phase, not always though so an open mind is probably best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, graygo said: Because all trans women are really hairy arsed, big bollocked males out to threaten females really eh? Should the person in this photo be forced to use a male toilet and go to a male refuge if they were in need of refuge? For the avoidance of doubt the person is this photo is a friend of mine who was born a man but now identifies as female and is more feminine than most women I've ever met. Do you think the person in the photo should allowed to use womens spaces like toilets, changing rooms or a refuge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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