****The All In One LGBTQ+ & Related Issues Mega Thread****

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Would ! 

 

Wouldn't let you !

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

A bairn with a biscuit erse can see you're contradicting yourself just about on a post by post basis.

 

Example please.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

As I thought, thanks for correcting the fact that any of your friends are trans. I don't need to take a breath mate, you actually said that you had friends who were trans in the post I quoted, I didn't make it up. That's not my style. Gay people on the whole (as demonstrated frequently on here) do not think trans is even a thing never mind something that has rights. 

Yes I look after a kid who says they are trans but I wouldn't want to argue the case for or against kids when it comes to sexuality or gender as they definitely can be going through a phase, not always though so an open mind is probably best.

I've never once said I had friends who were trans, my post clearly says it was our kids at school that had friends that were gay, bi and trans, you have made that bit up.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Example please.

Just read your posts, it's clear.

[graygo]

7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I am talking about the right to feel safe, the right for women to feel safe in womens spaces and not have men invade these spaces despite how they dress or how they identify, something you fail to grasp, so there you go.

 

No you fail to grasp that a trans women entering, let's say a female toilet is not something that should make a woman feel threatened. It would take the trans woman to do or say something that would bring that about. Women piss in cubicles. Men used to feel threatened by gay men because of their own stupid prejudices, some still do.

Why do you use rhetoric like "men invading women's spaces"?  

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Do you think the person in the photo should allowed to use womens spaces like toilets, changing rooms or a refuge?

 

Yes. Do you think this person would feel safe in a male space like a toilet, changing room or refuge?

[graygo]

7 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Just read your posts, it's clear.

 

So no example then? 

[graygo]

12 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I've never once said I had friends who were trans, my post clearly says it was our kids at school that had friends that were gay, bi and trans, you have made that bit up.

 

Aye ok, you probably vote Tory as well. Goodnight 

 

Edit: on further viewing your post could be read different ways so looks like I got that wrong 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by graygo

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

No you fail to grasp that a trans women entering, let's say a female toilet is not something that should make a woman feel threatened. It would take the trans woman to do or say something that would bring that about. Women piss in cubicles. Men used to feel threatened by gay men because of their own stupid prejudices, some still do.

Why do you use rhetoric like "men invading women's spaces"?  

No, you fail to grasp that a trans woman is a man.

It's not up to you, a man, to tell women what should or should not make feel threatened, it's for women to that decision. 

The trans women, a man, would only have to be in a womans space for a woman to feel threatened, that's for them to decide not a man, especially if they didn't know men were in that safe space.

I don't know if men felt threatened by gay men or not, I have to suppose some did.

"Men invading womens spaces" isn't rhetoric, it's  what youre advocating. 

[graygo]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

No, you fail to grasp that a trans woman is a man.

It's not up to you, a man, to tell women what should or should not make feel threatened, it's for women to that decision. 

The trans women, a man, would only have to be in a womans space for a woman to feel threatened, that's for them to decide not a man, especially if they didn't know men were in that safe space.

I don't know if men felt threatened by gay men or not, I have to suppose some did.

"Men invading womens spaces" isn't rhetoric, it's  what youre advocating. 

 

How can a woman feel threatened if a man is in their space if they didn't know that a man was in that space?

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

No, you fail to grasp that a trans woman is a man.

It's not up to you, a man, to tell women what should or should not make feel threatened, it's for women to that decision. 

The trans women, a man, would only have to be in a womans space for a woman to feel threatened, that's for them to decide not a man, especially if they didn't know men were in that safe space.

I don't know if men felt threatened by gay men or not, I have to suppose some did.

"Men invading womens spaces" isn't rhetoric, it's  what youre advocating. 

 

You would never say "trans women using women's spaces" though would you? Doesn't elicit the same response 

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Yes. Do you think this person would feel safe in a male space like a toilet, changing room or refuge?

So you do think men should be allowed in women's spaces despite how women may feel about this, see the next time you ask for an example of you contracting yourself just look at this post.

I don't know if they'd feel safe in a male space like a toilet, changing room or refuge, but if you, a man, are claiming that women shouldn't feel threatened why should he? If he shouldn't feel threatened and he's a man, why should be using womens space and not a mans?

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

How can a woman feel threatened if a man is in their space if they didn't know that a man was in that space?

Sometimes you can tell if it's a man Greygo, ffs man, all trans don't look like Taylor Swit.

[graygo]

I'm better backing out now, it's been a long day having driven back from Somerset. I'm tired and emotional. 

Apologies if I offended anyone for sticking up for what I believe, well anyone except the gifmeister, he/she/they deserve all they get.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

You would never say "trans women using women's spaces" though would you? Doesn't elicit the same response 

No, because trans women are men.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Sometimes you can tell if it's a man Greygo, ffs man, all trans don't look like Taylor Swit.

 

Neither do all women.

What you are saying is at play here are people's prejudices and that's not right.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Neither do all women.

What you are saying is at play here are people's prejudices and that's not right.

No, what I'm saying and consistency have said, are that trans women are men and have no right being in womans spaces, despite how they look in women clothes. 

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

So you do think men should be allowed in women's spaces despite how women may feel about this, see the next time you ask for an example of you contracting yourself just look at this post.

I don't know if they'd feel safe in a male space like a toilet, changing room or refuge, but if you, a man, are claiming that women shouldn't feel threatened why should he? If he shouldn't feel threatened and he's a man, why should be using womens space and not a mans?

 

You're argument against me falls down at the word highlighted, if you had said trans women it would read a whole lot different.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

You're argument against me falls down at the word highlighted, if you had said trans women it would read a whole lot different.

You haven't highlighted any words!

If you had said men instead of trans woman your argument would be a whole lot different and much more accurate. 

 

[graygo]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

No, what I'm saying and consistency have said, are that trans women are men and have no right being in womans spaces, despite how they look in women clothes. 

 

And what I am saying is that it's not as clear cut as that. Whatever you, James or anyone else thinks there are more than 2 genders and all have rights. If it was as cut and dried as you claim then there would be no debate.

 

I still think unisex safe spaces is the way forward.

[graygo]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

You haven't highlighted any words!

If you had said men instead of trans woman your argument would be a whole lot different and much more accurate. 

 

 

Sorry meant to highlight your first use of the word "men"

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

 

And what I am saying is that it's not as clear cut as that. Whatever you, James or anyone else thinks there are more than 2 genders and all have rights. If it was as cut and dried as you claim then there would be no debate.

 

I still think unisex safe spaces is the way forward.

There are no more than 2 genders, there are no more than 2 sexes, there is male and there is female, it is as clear cut as that.

Unisex safe spaces is an oxymoron, as long as there is one woman who would feel unsafe with a man in a toilet, changing or refuge there should be women only spaces.

 

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Sorry meant to highlight your first use of the word "men"

I figured that out.

[Dawnrazor]

29 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Aye ok, you probably vote Tory as well. Goodnight 

 

 

 

😳🤣 and you've got the temerity to accuse other posters of "play ground stuff"!!

[graygo]

31 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I figured that out.

 

And yet your attempt at rewriting it was completely different.

[graygo]

32 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

There are no more than 2 genders, there are no more than 2 sexes, there is male and there is female, it is as clear cut as that.

Unisex safe spaces is an oxymoron, as long as there is one woman who would feel unsafe with a man in a toilet, changing or refuge there should be women only spaces.

 

 

In your opinion maybe.

 

Try a simple Google search asking "how many genders are there?" and let's see if it's as clear cut as you claim.

[graygo]

34 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

There are no more than 2 genders, there are no more than 2 sexes, there is male and there is female, it is as clear cut as that.

Unisex safe spaces is an oxymoron, as long as there is one woman who would feel unsafe with a man in a toilet, changing or refuge there should be women only spaces.

 

 

Change that word to trans women and I'll disagree with you.

[graygo]

22 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

😳🤣 and you've got the temerity to accuse other posters of "play ground stuff"!!

 

That wasn't playground stuff it was topical as the Tories are liars too.

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

And yet your attempt at rewriting it was completely different.

I wasn't.

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Change that word to trans women and I'll disagree with you.

A trans woman is a man.

[graygo]

20 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

A trans woman is a man.

My point stands.

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, graygo said:

My point stands.

As does mine.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

As done mine.

Then we disagree. That's allowed.

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, graygo said:

Then we disagree. That's allowed.

We do and it is.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

4 hours ago, Sharpie said:

 There was nothing more odd or unexpected than to walk inot the old toilet in Preston Street Lane and witness two males in the act of anal intercourse, There is no doubt to a late 1950,s policeman that was as queer as queer gets, because of it unusualness. Checking a car in Holyrood Park on night shift two observe two men in the act of oral sex, was queer, so I guess witnesses seeing sights that they thought were queer it was easy to use the term queers for the males engaged in queer practises. The looks the desk sergeant gave you when you announced the charges against the individuals was also queer in its disgust, anger,  and complete revulsion.

That must have been shocking to witness at the time and would still be a crime today as it would still count as indecent exposure in public. I remember being a bit shocked seeing two males holding hands once in the street and that was that was about 1990. Things have moved on so far now and I couldn't care less, as long as people are living a happy life, that's all that matters!

[Sharpie]

36 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

That must have been shocking to witness at the time and would still be a crime today as it would still count as indecent exposure in public. I remember being a bit shocked seeing two males holding hands once in the street and that was that was about 1990. Things have moved on so far now and I couldn't care less, as long as people are living a happy life, that's all that matters!

I guess I have seen homosexuality at its worst and its best.When I was stationed in Wellington Barracks in 1955 older Guardsmen would talk about going out on the twist, that was when they went into known bars in London and picked up homosexual men. When they went to the chosen love nest the twist was carried out where the homesexual male was beaten and property stolen. Men charged with acts of homosexuality, appeared in Court and basically lost their life, by way of job loss, and other things. There was one sergeant in the Edinburgh police who was knowingly homosexual, but no one ever complained, to my knowledge he never importuned anyone, but we who were so hard on others protected our own. All my life I have been an admirer of women, love to touch and be touched by them, I have no feelings that I had for women about men, just cannot understand it yet, but I have the same problem with many things, I could not imagine loving Hibs, I could not imagine a passionate kiss with a man, etc. But over the basically seventy years of realising there was homosexuality, taking steps against it, and imposing strong action against those whom  practised it, I now just look and say none stranger than people. Geez even women are queer now, man I would love to have arrested some of the ones I have seen.

[CF11JamTart]

46 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

That must have been shocking to witness at the time and would still be a crime today as it would still count as indecent exposure in public. I remember being a bit shocked seeing two males holding hands once in the street and that was that was about 1990. Things have moved on so far now and I couldn't care less, as long as people are living a happy life, that's all that matters!

 

Women holding hands in public is fairly common down here. Men less so, but it still happens. 

 

Daughter is growing up in a world where she sees (and knows) gay couples and lesbian couples. It's a normal part of her landscape.

 

And she cannot be arsed with "girls' stuff / boys' stuff" gender stereotypes. 

 

All feels quite positive.

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

Women holding hands in public is fairly common down here. Men less so, but it still happens. 

 

Daughter is growing up in a world where she sees (and knows) gay couples and lesbian couples. It's a normal part of her landscape.

 

And she cannot be arsed with "girls' stuff / boys' stuff" gender stereotypes. 

 

All feels quite positive.

I have the same experience, I see female couples holding hands regularly now in Leeds and Manchester when we go there and occasionally in Lancaster and Kendal, seldom do I see male couples doing the same anywhere, I don't know what the reason would be for this?

My son is growing up in a much more open and tolerant society compared to me which has to be a good thing, teenagers at his school are open about their sexuality in a way that would've been impossible when I was growing up.

It may be worth saying my sons school is in a very rural area, Lib Dem and Conservative counry not a big town or city where an open attitude to this would be expected to be more tolerant. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Dawnrazor

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

I guess I have seen homosexuality at its worst and its best.When I was stationed in Wellington Barracks in 1955 older Guardsmen would talk about going out on the twist, that was when they went into known bars in London and picked up homosexual men. When they went to the chosen love nest the twist was carried out where the homesexual male was beaten and property stolen. Men charged with acts of homosexuality, appeared in Court and basically lost their life, by way of job loss, and other things. There was one sergeant in the Edinburgh police who was knowingly homosexual, but no one ever complained, to my knowledge he never importuned anyone, but we who were so hard on others protected our own. All my life I have been an admirer of women, love to touch and be touched by them, I have no feelings that I had for women about men, just cannot understand it yet, but I have the same problem with many things, I could not imagine loving Hibs, I could not imagine a passionate kiss with a man, etc. But over the basically seventy years of realising there was homosexuality, taking steps against it, and imposing strong action against those whom  practised it, I now just look and say none stranger than people. Geez even women are queer now, man I would love to have arrested some of the ones I have seen.

Looking back I'm sure there was a lot of bad things happening to homosexuals even in recent years and as a young adult myself in the 80s and straight as they come I did find it hard to understand how two males or females could be sexually attracted to each other, I understand better now. The Armed forces and the police, as you will know personally, had to look strong to their piers and the wider public so maybe would overstep the mark to reinforce that issue but they were only dealing with what was deemed to be criminal activity back then. Humans are a strange bunce right enough!

[Tazio]

21 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I have the same experience, I see female couples holding hands regularly now in Leeds and Manchester when we go there and occasionally in Lancaster and Kendal, seldom do I see male couples doing the same anywhere, I don't know what the reason would be for this?

 

Two reasons. Women are more prone to public displays of affection. And also less chance of them getting abused and potentially beaten shitless for it. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

29 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

Women holding hands in public is fairly common down here. Men less so, but it still happens. 

 

Daughter is growing up in a world where she sees (and knows) gay couples and lesbian couples. It's a normal part of her landscape.

 

And she cannot be arsed with "girls' stuff / boys' stuff" gender stereotypes. 

 

All feels quite positive.

It has all been a learning experience for us "oldies" speaking personally 😄 and we probably wouldn't have even discussed this subject not so long ago. Doesn't feel bad talking about it now!

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Tazio said:

Two reasons. Women are more prone to public displays of affection. And also less chance of them getting abused and potentially beaten shitless for it. 

Aye, fair enough points, but I do think two guys holding hands wouldn't get the abouse now that undoubtedly they would've received in years gone by, but I do accept what you say, still lots of ground to be made up on this.

[Tazio]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

Aye, fair enough points, but I do think two guys holding hands wouldn't get the abouse now that undoubtedly they would've received in years gone by, but I do accept what you say, still lots of ground to be made up on this.

I can’t think of a single gay male friend I have that hasn’t been verbally abused, threatened, or assaulted by randoms in the street going back 40 years to recently. It’s pathetic. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Tazio said:

I can’t think of a single gay male friend I have that hasn’t been verbally abused, threatened, or assaulted by randoms in the street going back 40 years to recently. It’s pathetic. 

If that's the case about recently then it is pathetic, I just think it seems to be much more accepted with teenagers and that moving forward has to be a good thing.

There unfortunately, will always be arseholes.

[Locky]

On 16/07/2022 at 18:13, Dick Dastardly said:

The idea of being gender fluid really confuses me. I saw someone being interviewed on tv  and they were saying that one day they would wake up and feel like a woman and go by one name, another day they might feel like a man and go by a different name. I'm in no way a medical expert but that sounds more like a serious mental condition than anything else

 

And whats the difference between being gay and queer? 

Could be wrong, but I think someone who defines themselves as 'queer' is someone who is straight, but isn't afraid to act outwith the normal social perceptions of a hetrosexual, masculine man. For wont of a better explanation.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

 I think he's having a breakdown ... maybe he's on a journey ? 

X factor ???  

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Wow this thread has went from refreshing to bitter, quickly. 
 

 

I know. Not unsurprisingly caused when the trans issued reared its head and those advocating for trans rights to women's only spaces became angry and hostile on the thread. 

3 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

No, you fail to grasp that a trans woman is a man.

It's not up to you, a man, to tell women what should or should not make feel threatened, it's for women to that decision. 

The trans women, a man, would only have to be in a womans space for a woman to feel threatened, that's for them to decide not a man, especially if they didn't know men were in that safe space.

I don't know if men felt threatened by gay men or not, I have to suppose some did.

"Men invading womens spaces" isn't rhetoric, it's  what youre advocating. 

well said. 

3 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

No, because trans women are men.

yep

3 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

No, what I'm saying and consistency have said, are that trans women are men and have no right being in womans spaces, despite how they look in women clothes. 

yep again 

33 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Two reasons. Women are more prone to public displays of affection. And also less chance of them getting abused and potentially beaten shitless for it. 

Very true although i do recall that horrific case in London on a night bus when two lesbian lassies were badly assaulted by some lads. 

27 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I can’t think of a single gay male friend I have that hasn’t been verbally abused, threatened, or assaulted by randoms in the street going back 40 years to recently. It’s pathetic. 

Sadly true.  Several times for me . One time in a chippy late on a Friday night. Always  a risky place anyway due to drunks. Guy started getting lippy with me. He was really drunk .. I walked out along the road and he started shouting at me again.  He was about to attack me and i threw my pizza at his pus and hailed a taxi.  I laughed about it the next day due to the comedy element of the pizza throwing but I had did nothing to warrant the abuse i got. ( He had saw me kiss a guy goodnight hence the name calling to be begin with.)  

Edited July 17, 2022 by JudyJudyJudy

[JudyJudyJudy]

The comment about the trans person being " feminine" really takes the biscuit tonight on this thread.  Does he not know that women come in all different shapes and sizes and types...

 

Heres a couple 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Wow this thread has went from refreshing to bitter, quickly. 
 

 

Hope is doesn't stop you posting again.  You and a few others have posted honest , insightful , educated and sensitive comments. 

[Dick Dastardly]

22 hours ago, FWJ said:

I think the ‘Q’ stands for ‘questioning’ meaning you’re not sure if you’re gay/bi/straight.

Does it?! 😂 Jeezus, i got that fairly wrong then.