ScotRail

[IronJambo]

6 hours ago, Homme said:

 

 

RMT ballot closes tomorrow I believe. I think it's a cert that there will be a vote to strike.

 

We in Network Rail were actually told by our PR guy we should have stuck in harder at school and wouldn't be in this position if we had 

 

 

Yes, I've heard this line. Most of my colleagues have degrees 😂 

 

Our MD told everyone that life isn't fair 🙃. I think he got a paper cut whilst counting his money once.

[gashauskis9]

I genuinely applaud those taking strike action as it is their right if they don’t feel they are being sufficiently rewarded.

 

Equally though, as a paying customer, I also reserve the right to say that the Scotrail service is utterly abysmal, and that I don’t give a shit about your pay rises as long as the train is on time and gets me where I need to be without being crushed.  Sadly, the new timetable makes that even worse for folk, yet they experience a hike in train fares every year.  
 

Works both ways.  I respect staff wanting better conditions and I hope you get them, but it should be pretty obvious why customers are being shafted.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, gashauskis9 said:

I genuinely applaud those taking strike action as it is their right if they don’t feel they are being sufficiently rewarded.

 

Equally though, as a paying customer, I also reserve the right to say that the Scotrail service is utterly abysmal, and that I don’t give a shit about your pay rises as long as the train is on time and gets me where I need to be without being crushed.  Sadly, the new timetable makes that even worse for folk, yet they experience a hike in train fares every year.  
 

Works both ways.  I respect staff wanting better conditions and I hope you get them, but it should be pretty obvious why customers are being shafted.

 

Staff don't like working rammed trains either. The reduced timetable is a shambles but it's absolutely the managements making. 

 

What's your usual route? I live in Fife and folk moaned before about trains but there were 4 an hour through Inverkeithing and most were near empty. I honestly don't think it's near as bad as folk make out apart from a few routes. I spoke to customers from abroad and down south and vast majority thought scotrail were pretty good compared to at home. 

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

17 hours ago, IronJambo said:

I've not been on strike for years but yes, I will absolutely stand up for myself when the time comes (I have voted for strike action in a current ballot). I've no shame for that and it's my right to strike if we get the mandate.

 

How people get to work in the event of us striking is none of my business. My only concern will be how many days we need to strike for and how I pay my bills through it.

 

No excuses, no hypocrisy. 

 

And here was me thinking that the railways were a service industry. My bad they are actually there for the benefit of the folks that work there. What a stinking attitude.

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

And here was me thinking that the railways were a service industry. My bad they are actually there for the benefit of the folks that work there. What a stinking attitude.

 

Especially a public sector industry. The main aim should be public service for those who put the money into it, not those who are taking it out imo.

 

[gashauskis9]

37 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Staff don't like working rammed trains either. The reduced timetable is a shambles but it's absolutely the managements making. 

 

What's your usual route? I live in Fife and folk moaned before about trains but there were 4 an hour through Inverkeithing and most were near empty. I honestly don't think it's near as bad as folk make out apart from a few routes. I spoke to customers from abroad and down south and vast majority thought scotrail were pretty good compared to at home. 

 

 

Tweedbank. 2 carriages on a Sat morning into Edinburgh and now the last midweek train back is before 10.  No midweek games for me next season then. 
 

I sympathise with staff too.  They put up with a lot of shit which is out of their control, hence why I’m in support of the strike action.  

Edited May 23, 2022 by gashauskis9

[Dazo]

16 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

And here was me thinking that the railways were a service industry. My bad they are actually there for the benefit of the folks that work there. What a stinking attitude.

Yep, shocker of a comment by IR but given his views on this thread it’s not really a surprise and is indicative of how the staff think. 

[gashauskis9]

I actually appreciate IronJambo’s honesty here.  Im sure he’ll appreciate my honesty in relation to the quality and inconvenience of the service as well, as is my right and prerogative, but his duty is to support his family and pay his bills.  

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Staff don't like working rammed trains either. The reduced timetable is a shambles but it's absolutely the managements making. 

 

What's your usual route? I live in Fife and folk moaned before about trains but there were 4 an hour through Inverkeithing and most were near empty. I honestly don't think it's near as bad as folk make out apart from a few routes. I spoke to customers from abroad and down south and vast majority thought scotrail were pretty good compared to at home. 

 

 

3 trains from Edinburgh to Dunfermline cancelled on Saturday evening... £40 for a taxi home, last month my mate came over for a few beers and a curry,  his train home and the one after were cancelled, luckily he got the bus back home, still had a bit of a yomp to get there mind, his home station is 5 minutes from his front door.

Have heard stories regularly of trains to Fife being cancelled at weekends with no explanation.

 

Much room for improvement imo

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

And here was me thinking that the railways were a service industry. My bad they are actually there for the benefit of the folks that work there. What a stinking attitude.

It's not really my business though is it?

 

I've walked ten miles to get home from work in the small hours during a bus strike before and I didn't once think it was the fault of the bus drivers.

 

Most people find a way to get to work. I'd suspect the majority will work from home like they have done for the last two years. If they need to get to work they'll have plenty opportunity to find a way to get there as there is always notice given when there's a strike. Most people aren't so feckless that they won't be able navigate around that.

 

My work is just a job, it's not a vocation. You're mistaken if you think the majority of rail staff show up at work to blindly serve everyone out of the kindness of their hearts. 

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Yep, shocker of a comment by IR but given his views on this thread it’s not really a surprise and is indicative of how the staff think. 

I've given honest views on rail staffs right to strike. I'm not sure what's so awful about that.

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I've given honest views on rail staffs right to strike. I'm not sure what's so awful about that.

Of course you have the right to strike, that doesn't mean people automatically think you're right to actually do it.

 

Taking for granted that drivers have the right to strike, what are the actual reasons for voting Yes, I want to strike?

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, gashauskis9 said:

Tweedbank. 2 carriages on a Sat morning into Edinburgh and now the last midweek train back is before 10.  No midweek games for me next season then. 
 

I sympathise with staff too.  They put up with a lot of shit which is out of their control, hence why I’m in support of the strike action.  

 

Tweedbank definitely gets the short straw. I've worked commuter ones with 2 carriages, absolute shambles made worse by being single track which was a massive oversight by network rail/transport Scotland or whoever was involved. They didn't even build it wide enough to get two eventually or the bridges high enough to electrify. 

[IronJambo]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Of course you have the right to strike, that doesn't mean people automatically think you're right to actually do it.

 

Taking for granted that drivers have the right to strike, what are the actual reasons for voting Yes, I want to strike?

I don't know what reasons the Scotrail drivers have but I can assure you they aren't doing it for a laugh. Nobody takes strike action lightly. 

[fabienleclerq]

53 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

3 trains from Edinburgh to Dunfermline cancelled on Saturday evening... £40 for a taxi home, last month my mate came over for a few beers and a curry,  his train home and the one after were cancelled, luckily he got the bus back home, still had a bit of a yomp to get there mind, his home station is 5 minutes from his front door.

Have heard stories regularly of trains to Fife being cancelled at weekends with no explanation.

 

Much room for improvement imo

 

There's always room for improvement, in particular later on to Dunfermline isn't the best. In general though fife isn't badly served imo, Inverkeithing gets 4 trains an hour and is less than ten minutes fro the Dunfermline. 

 

Without knowing the reasons for the cancellations its hard to explain, could be a network rail issue, staffing, passengers etc. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, IronJambo said:

I don't know what reasons the Scotrail drivers have but I can assure you they aren't doing it for a laugh. Nobody takes strike action lightly. 

 

I'm sure.

We're on page 7 now though and as far as I can tell the reason is that they want more than the 54k that they're on. I'm sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

[IronJambo]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm sure.

We're on page 7 now though and as far as I can tell the reason is that they want more than the 54k that they're on. I'm sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

They've also not had a pay rise for 3 years. There may be more reason, I really don't know.

[Marvin]

I'm hearing the useless decker who ran the company so badly is back running the company 

[gashauskis9]

16 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Tweedbank definitely gets the short straw. I've worked commuter ones with 2 carriages, absolute shambles made worse by being single track which was a massive oversight by network rail/transport Scotland or whoever was involved. They didn't even build it wide enough to get two eventually or the bridges high enough to electrify. 

Waited a long time for a service down here and it’s slowly being taken away again.  If you’re not getting on at Tweedbank, then you’re standing all the way to Edinburgh if you’re lucky. 

[Pasquale for King]

On 19/05/2022 at 14:57, FWJ said:

I don’t know but it seems a bit out of order to run your business relying on goodwill and the willingness of people to work rest-days and take overtime.  Are there many big businesses like this?  (Not Devil’s advocate, genuine question)

Exactly, the vast majority of businesses are like this. 

[1874robbo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm sure.

We're on page 7 now though and as far as I can tell the reason is that they want more than the 54k that they're on. I'm sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

That’s some chip on your shoulder.

no wonder you don’t work carrying that about with you.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

I'm sure.

We're on page 7 now though and as far as I can tell the reason is that they want more than the 54k that they're on. I'm sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

 

2 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

That’s some chip on your shoulder.

no wonder you don’t work carrying that about with you.

 

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

All you bang on about are wages 

you know fine well 

Do you do this with every profession that wants a wage rise?

[Ribble]

2 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

3 trains from Edinburgh to Dunfermline cancelled on Saturday evening... £40 for a taxi home, last month my mate came over for a few beers and a curry,  his train home and the one after were cancelled, luckily he got the bus back home, still had a bit of a yomp to get there mind, his home station is 5 minutes from his front door.

Have heard stories regularly of trains to Fife being cancelled at weekends with no explanation.

 

Much room for improvement imo

 

Sure that was due to someone on the tracks between waverly and haymarket meaning no trains could travel westbound out of waverley. 

 

That said it's not uncommon for the last train to dunfermline to be cancelled anyway, invariably due to staff not turning up. It was the same yesterday morning with the first train of the day being cancelled due to staff not turning up and then the 2nd one had already been cancelled due to reduced staff numbers meaning that the first train from edinburgh to Dunfermline yesterday was at midday. Ended up getting one to inverkeithing then the bus to dunfermline from there.

[jambo89]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm sure.

We're on page 7 now though and as far as I can tell the reason is that they want a wage rise in these difficult times. I'm sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

FTFY

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

All you bang on about are wages 

you know fine well 

Do you do this with every profession that wants a wage rise?

Is that not what the planned strike action is about? 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

FTFY

 

That amendment is the issue. Difficult times for many on low wages and we've got those on a good wage willing to strike to get more out of the public purse. Seems a bit off to me.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm sure.

We're on page 7 now though and as far as I can tell the reason is that they want more than the 54k that they're on. I'm sure someone can correct me if that's wrong.

 

You keep bringing up their salaries like you think it's undeserved. They happen to be less well paid than most train drivers in the UK. I'd be wanting more if I was them too. 

 

If you get a job would you be happy earning less than others doing the same thing? 

 

 

[fabienleclerq]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That amendment is the issue. Difficult times for many on low wages and we've got those on a good wage willing to strike to get more out of the public purse. Seems a bit off to me.

 

The public purse😂

 

It's always bare cupboards when it's working people asking for better, there's always a couple billion to chuck at Northern Ireland to get votes or millions that get syphoned off to MP's pals. War kitty? No problem. 

 

There's literally never a good time to ask for a pay rise from the "public purse". 

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

The public purse😂

 

It's always bare cupboards when it's working people asking for better, there's always a couple billion to chuck at Northern Ireland to get votes or millions that get syphoned off to MP's pals. War kitty? No problem. 

 

Any examples of the above?

 

7 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

There's literally never a good time to ask for a pay rise from the "public purse". 

 

Correct. What would be your reaction if it were MPs striking for a pay rise?

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You keep bringing up their salaries like you think it's undeserved. They happen to be less well paid than most train drivers in the UK. I'd be wanting more if I was them too. 

 

If you get a job would you be happy earning less than others doing the same thing? 

 

Like I think...

I haven't once talked about whether drivers deserve their wages. 

 

But it seems to me that people defending the planned action are doing everything they can not to say it's about the wages and are going a bit Tonto at the suggestion.

[fabienleclerq]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Any examples of the above?

 

 

Correct. What would be your reaction if it were MPs striking for a pay rise?

 

The tories chucked wads of cash to get the DUP to vote with them, over a billion iirc. Several contracts for ppe went to their pals companies who had never made ppe etc. Always money when they need it. 

 

 

MPs don't have to strike they just got a pay rise. And no I wouldn't be against it particularly, if you want monkeys pay peanuts, I want the best people possible running the country. 

[jambo89]

22 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That amendment is the issue. Difficult times for many on low wages and we've got those on a good wage willing to strike to get more out of the public purse. Seems a bit off to me.

What they earn is irrelevant. That's how much a train driver gets paid, in the same way the wage of a nurse is the wage of a nurse, or the wage of an cleaner is the wage of cleaner.

 

If you personally think they get paid too much and have too many good T&C's then never a greater advert for a strong union is the scenario we have here.

[fabienleclerq]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Like I think...

I haven't once talked about whether drivers deserve their wages. 

 

But it seems to me that people defending the planned action are doing everything they can not to say it's about the wages and are going a bit Tonto at the suggestion.

 

On 19/05/2022 at 14:54, Smithee said:

 

 

They're planning industrial action this summer, but given that the pay they're on now is already 54k I don't know how much public support they'll get 

 

On 19/05/2022 at 14:58, Smithee said:

Every month, a train driver's top line is more than a year's universal credit.

 

They really aren't on my priority list at all.

 

On 19/05/2022 at 14:58, Smithee said:

The NHS spring to mind

 

On 19/05/2022 at 16:04, Smithee said:

Yep. Three times the national minimum they earn. I mean, fair enough, very responsible job hurtling round the countryside in a tube, responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers.

 

But this country faces real problems, those guys won't win the battle for public sympathy if they strike.

 

On 19/05/2022 at 16:40, Smithee said:

I'm on 4k. Train drivers want more than the 54k they're on. 

 

Boo ****ing hoo

 

On 19/05/2022 at 17:30, Smithee said:

Nor is it mine, the point is that there are major problems ahead and folk that earn over a grand a week already shouldn't be on the priority list.

 

On 19/05/2022 at 18:23, Smithee said:

 

As I've said a few times, they're not going to get much public sympathy striking because 54k isn't enough, I think they've lost all perspective.

 

On 19/05/2022 at 18:33, Smithee said:

My dad was a shop steward, I've always been a union man. The train drivers don't know they're living IMO

 

On 19/05/2022 at 18:34, Smithee said:

That's pretty low, it's not about jealousy, it's about people struggling to exist while the middle class go on strike for more

 

That's the first two pages, you've not stopped banging on about their wages which suggests you think they aren't deserving of a pay rise. 

 

Of course its about wages, cost of living has went up. They got told they were key workers and to get to work, some died through covid. The schools wouldn't accept their kids as they weren't key enough apparently. Imo they are well worth a wage especially considering they are low paid for train drivers. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, fabienleclerq said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the first two pages, you've not stopped banging on about their wages which suggests you think they aren't deserving of a pay rise. 

 

Of course its about wages, cost of living has went up. They got told they were key workers and to get to work, some died through covid. The schools wouldn't accept their kids as they weren't key enough apparently. Imo they are well worth a wage especially considering they are low paid for train drivers. 

All that talking of their wages, and not one shred of evidence that I think they don't deserve it.

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

What they earn is irrelevant. 

Not if they're striking over wages

[Mikey1874]

23 hours ago, frankblack said:

The article I linked to on the BBC dated 18 December 2019 announced that the Scottish Government was taking over Scotrail.

 

Surely the clock starts ticking from then and you have your due diligence in place?  Or was no planning and preparation done for the date control changed hands?

 

This 7 weeks timeline is wishful thinking.

 

The railways were all effectively nationalised in March 2020 due to the Covid emergency. 

[jambo89]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Not if they're striking over wages

Of course it is irrelevant. What are you trying to say? If they had they're wages cut by 50% (to the national average as you fondly quote) they would be okay / have your support to strike? Just because they earn what you perceive to be a good wage, it does not mean they should not want improved conditons and fight for those conditions by any means neccassary. Race to the bottom indeed.

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

All that talking of their wages, and not one shred of evidence that I think they don't deserve it.

😂😂😂😂😂

 

Right enough,the content and tone of your posts say it all. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

Of course it is irrelevant. What are you trying to say? If they had they're wages cut by 50% (to the national average as you fondly quote) they would be okay / have your support to strike? Just because they earn what you perceive to be a good wage, it does not mean they should not want improved conditons and fight for those conditions by any means neccassary. Race to the bottom indeed.

What they earn is irrelevant if they're striking over wages?

This is getting stupid.

 

Just now, fabienleclerq said:

😂😂😂😂😂

 

Right enough,the content and tone of your posts say it all. 

There's a reason you can't find me saying drivers don't deserve their wage, so I'd appreciate if you could stop trying to paint me with that one.

[1874robbo]

32 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Any examples of the above?

 

 

Correct. What would be your reaction if it were MPs striking for a pay rise?

If our MP’s went on strike would we really notice a difference? 

[IronJambo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

What they earn is irrelevant if they're striking over wages?

This is getting stupid.

 

There's a reason you can't find me saying drivers don't deserve their wage, so I'd appreciate if you could stop trying to paint me with that one.

You've cried several times about them earning £50k+. You're saying that they shouldn't be going on strike over wages. 

If you thought they deserved their wage you would be backing them as they've effectively had a large pay cut.

[1874robbo]

After all these posts I’ve come to the conclusion Smithee was that wee radge that got chucked off the scotrail by that big guy all those years ago.

still hurting.

[Unknown user]

Just now, IronJambo said:

You've cried several times about them earning £50k+. You're saying that they shouldn't be going on strike over wages. 

If you thought they deserved their wage you would be backing them as they've effectively had a large pay cut.

I've never said they don't deserve their wage mate, cheers

[jambo89]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

What they earn is irrelevant if they're striking over wages?

This is getting stupid.

 

There's a reason you can't find me saying drivers don't deserve their wage, so I'd appreciate if you could stop trying to paint me with that one.

 

What someone currently earns has no bearing on whether they should want improved wages or not. You should always yearn for more, regardless of what you get paid or how bitter that makes others

[IronJambo]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I've never said they don't deserve their wage mate, cheers

Their wage is less today than it was last year, and the two years before that. If they deserved their wage 3 years ago then they deserve a reasonable rise today 👍

[fabienleclerq]

25 minutes ago, Smithee said:

What they earn is irrelevant if they're striking over wages?

This is getting stupid.

 

There's a reason you can't find me saying drivers don't deserve their wage, so I'd appreciate if you could stop trying to paint me with that one.

 

You don't have to say the actual words, you've made it clear you don't think they do. I'm not painting you with anything. 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

The tories chucked wads of cash to get the DUP to vote with them, over a billion iirc. Several contracts for ppe went to their pals companies who had never made ppe etc. Always money when they need it. 

 

Do the tories run ScotRail? Or is this just some form of whataboutery?

 

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

 

MPs don't have to strike they just got a pay rise. And no I wouldn't be against it particularly, if you want monkeys pay peanuts, I want the best people possible running the country. 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Ribble said:

 

Sure that was due to someone on the tracks between waverly and haymarket meaning no trains could travel westbound out of waverley. 

 

That said it's not uncommon for the last train to dunfermline to be cancelled anyway, invariably due to staff not turning up. It was the same yesterday morning with the first train of the day being cancelled due to staff not turning up and then the 2nd one had already been cancelled due to reduced staff numbers meaning that the first train from edinburgh to Dunfermline yesterday was at midday. Ended up getting one to inverkeithing then the bus to dunfermline from there.

Extreme circumstances then

 

Although with regard to the service in general I think, as someone said earlier, its ridiculous for scotrail to be depending on overtime & additional shifts to maintain the timetable.

 

Inevitably there are no shows resulting in cancellations. 

 

That's no ****ing good for the customer.

[Taffin]

59 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

What they earn is irrelevant. That's how much a train driver gets paid, in the same way the wage of a nurse is the wage of a nurse, or the wage of an cleaner is the wage of cleaner.

 

If you personally think they get paid too much and have too many good T&C's then never a greater advert for a strong union is the scenario we have here.

 

I've no opinion on their pay and whether they are worth it, nor do I feel they shouldn't be allowed to strike.

 

My opinion on it is that they're tone deaf and being selfish when they're publicly funded and there are people out there genuinely struggling right now and as such they may find their actions don't have a lot of public support. They're more than entitled to do it though.