Gizmo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 hour ago, frankblack said: Completely inept Scottish Government and yet people want to give these clowns more control? I guess if you want to go through to Glasgow for an evening match or concert you are in trouble if you want to get home. I'm now concerned that I'll be ****ed for getting to and from the final as I've got no bus booked. The Scottish Government took over Scotrail on the 1st April 2022. These structural issues regarding lack of trained workers and existing workers having to work rest days to provide timetabled services predate their extremely short ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IronJambo said: I'd say that's in the ballpark given zero increase in 3 years. What other people are getting is none of my concern. My wife for example, who works for a council has had a rise every year. Pay rises are not something you are entitled to or can guarantee - they depend on other factors such as how well the company is doing, profits, etc, plus your own performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Just now, Gizmo said: The Scottish Government took over Scotrail on the 1st April 2022. These structural issues regarding lack of trained workers and existing workers having to work rest days to provide timetabled services predate their extremely short ownership. They nationalised the service way before that though did they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 minute ago, frankblack said: They nationalised the service way before that though did they not? No, that is the nationalisation date. Quote Train operating company ScotRail is all set to become nationalised from 1 April 2022, marking an end to the Abellio franchise. The announcement was made by the Scotland Transport Minister Jenny Gilruth in the parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, Gizmo said: The Scottish Government took over Scotrail on the 1st April 2022. These structural issues regarding lack of trained workers and existing workers having to work rest days to provide timetabled services predate their extremely short ownership. Who made the pay offer that led to the workers refusing to work overtime ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Gizmo said: No, that is the nationalisation date. The date I'm thinking of is at least a year ago when they announced they were nationalising it. At that point they should have been planning not waiting until the last manager left the office at Waverley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 34 minutes ago, Smithee said: Every month, a train driver's top line is more than a year's universal credit. They really aren't on my priority list at all. 52 minutes ago, IronJambo said: I'm a train manager/guard. If anyone wants to speculate my wage to decide if I deserve a pay rise or not they need to bear in mind the average cost of a house here is in excess of £500k. Very hard to sympathise with someone who earns decent wage, whose wife apparently works in job that gets yearly pay rise yet feels hard done to cause they have been insulted by a pay rise offer that is in line with pay rise in private sector. As someone above said, want public sector protection but not public sector wage rise. Now they want to punish customers to satisfy their greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, frankblack said: Pay rises are not something you are entitled to or can guarantee - they depend on other factors such as how well the company is doing, profits, etc, plus your own performance. Think you need to stop being realistic. I believe the argument is 'We drive trains and we want more.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 The Scottish Government “we never stop ………. fecking up” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escobri Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, frankblack said: The date I'm thinking of is at least a year ago when they announced they were nationalising it. At that point they should have been planning not waiting until the last manager left the office at Waverley. Still the same guy in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Very hard to sympathise with someone who earns decent wage, whose wife apparently works in job that gets yearly pay rise yet feels hard done to cause they have been insulted by a pay rise offer that is in line with pay rise in private sector. As someone above said, want public sector protection but not public sector wage rise. Now they want to punish customers to satisfy their greed. I've not had an offer of a payrise. All I said was that 2.2% would be insulting if I'd even been offered that. You don't even know what my wage is to quantify it as decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, escobri said: Still the same guy in charge. The Scottish government can't be blamed for a situation years in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 32 minutes ago, frankblack said: Pay rises are not something you are entitled to or can guarantee - they depend on other factors such as how well the company is doing, profits, etc, plus your own performance. Yep. I work for a company that is paying a dividend to shareholders. We're maybe not entitled to a rise as you put it, but we're well within our rights to ask for one and we're within our rights to strike for one if it comes to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Smithee said: The Scottish government can't be blamed for a situation years in the making. Au contraire, Mon ami! The HJ's, SNP badders and the occasional flip flopper will be along shortly tostridently make that very case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Think you need to stop being realistic. I believe the argument is 'We drive trains and we want more.' Yep. Three times the national minimum they earn. I mean, fair enough, very responsible job hurtling round the countryside in a tube, responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers. But this country faces real problems, those guys won't win the battle for public sympathy if they strike. Edited May 19, 2022 by Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Smithee said: The Scottish government can't be blamed for a situation years in the making. but they do deserve criticism for keeping the person who i assume has been classed as a failure due to them nationalisng scotrail in charge rather than bring someone else in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Smithee said: The Scottish government can't be blamed for a situation years in the making. "The Scottish government can't be blamed for .... " Here writes a good Scottish nationalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escobri Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, IronJambo said: Yep. I work for a company that is paying a dividend to shareholders. We're maybe not entitled to a rise as you put it, but we're well within our rights to ask for one and we're within our rights to strike for one if it comes to it. Yes, here is a major part of the problem, private firms continue to make and take millions from the railways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: "The Scottish government can't be blamed for .... " Here writes a good Scottish nationalist. It's true, it doesn't matter if you don't like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, milky_26 said: but they do deserve criticism for keeping the person who i assume has been classed as a failure due to them nationalisng scotrail in charge rather than bring someone else in They terminated Abellio's contract early. Mainly due to the coronavirus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, Smithee said: It's true, it doesn't matter if you don't like it Very impressive from the SNP here. Less than 2 months into running the railways they've screwed it up Wee Paddy Harvie must be raging as many of us jump in the car instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Very impressive from the SNP here. Less than 2 months into running the railways they've screwed it up Wee Paddy Harvie must be raging as many of us jump in the car instead Yeah exactly, less than 2 months in and they've created a problem that's been there for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryheart Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, Smithee said: The Scottish government can't be blamed for a situation years in the making. How can we say that when we don't know how Abeillo would have reacted to the current dispute? They may have settled, they may have come up with alternatives to dealing with the problem rather than simply coming up with a timetable that train users are so obviously unhappy with? Are we saying that in the 10 years that Abellio ran the franchise that they did not face industrial disputes, because they did. As a regular train user throughout that period I can assure you that they never resorted to the 'solution' being used now. It may well be the same management at Scotrail, but would Abellio have allowed them to do what they are doing now? History suggests not because the impact on the credibility of the company would have been too great and it would have given the Scottish Government an excuse to jump up and down an say how hopeless they were. The Scottish Government is being blamed because it is endorsing, and most likely been involved in determining and at the very least consulted on, the action being taken by management that it has appointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Just now, Smithee said: Yeah exactly, less than 2 months in and they've created a problem that's been there for years Trade union not happy with the Nats. When most people get a new job / portfolio they try do something positive. Not the SNP it seems. Meanwhile, the Aslef union accused the Scottish government of "industrial vandalism" over the cuts. Kevin Lindsay, Aslef Scotland organiser, said: "This is what happens when you have political interference in industrial relations. "It's time the Scottish government allowed ScotRail and Aslef to negotiate in a fair and open manner. "These cuts will have a devastating effect on passengers and their confidence in our railway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, henryheart said: How can we say that when we don't know how Abeillo would have reacted to the current dispute? They may have settled, they may have come up with alternatives to dealing with the problem rather than simply coming up with a timetable that train users are so obviously unhappy with? Are we saying that in the 10 years that Abellio ran the franchise that they did not face industrial disputes, because they did. As a regular train user throughout that period I can assure you that they never resorted to the 'solution' being used now. It may well be the same management at Scotrail, but would Abellio have allowed them to do what they are doing now? History suggests not because the impact on the credibility of the company would have been too great and it would have given the Scottish Government an excuse to jump up and down an say how hopeless they were. The Scottish Government is being blamed because it is endorsing, and most likely been involved in determining and at the very least consulted on, the action being taken by management that it has appointed. I'm talking about only being able to run the service on the goodwill and overtime of the staff due to there not being enough train drivers employed. That's not something that can be resolved quickly so it creates this situation. The drivers' own rep said on the radio today that they have great terms and conditions but they shouldn't be punished for that by not getting a payrise. If I didn't know better I'd think a lot of this was dick swinging from the unions, trying to show where the power is early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Trade union not happy with the Nats. When most people get a new job / portfolio they try do something positive. Not the SNP it seems. Meanwhile, the Aslef union accused the Scottish government of "industrial vandalism" over the cuts. Kevin Lindsay, Aslef Scotland organiser, said: "This is what happens when you have political interference in industrial relations. "It's time the Scottish government allowed ScotRail and Aslef to negotiate in a fair and open manner. "These cuts will have a devastating effect on passengers and their confidence in our railway I'm on 4k. Train drivers want more than the 54k they're on. Boo ****ing hoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) The employer (here several) is at fault by not developing better relations with staff over a long period. It does remind me of the old union split. Strong for the better paid and 'skilled' male workforces. Less so for the poorer paid often women jobs. Edited May 19, 2022 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Female who works for me lost the plot this afternoon as it appeared all trains to bathgate seemed to be cancelled from about 1500-1700. The language! she managed to get one but next 3 cancelled beware for Saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Smithee said: I'm on 4k. Train drivers want more than the 54k they're on. Boo ****ing hoo Always fancied driving a train. Might apply. Looks like you should to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, FWJ said: I don’t know but it seems a bit out of order to run your business relying on goodwill and the willingness of people to work rest-days and take overtime. Are there many big businesses like this? (Not Devil’s advocate, genuine question) Loads. On the train front the sooner we can get robot trains the better. My last annual pay rise was last year and c.2%. Was I offended? No, I was happy enough with it and if I wasn't I'd have looked for another job. Edited May 19, 2022 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryheart Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: I'm talking about only being able to run the service on the goodwill and overtime of the staff due to there not being enough train drivers employed. That's not something that can be resolved quickly so it creates this situation. The drivers' own rep said on the radio today that they have great terms and conditions but they shouldn't be punished for that by not getting a payrise. If I didn't know better I'd think a lot of this was dick swinging from the unions, trying to show where the power is early on. Why is it necessary to see every criticism of the Scottish Government as being unionist? Sometimes the Scottish Government gets it badly wrong, end of, and there is no political agenda. Of course the service has run on the goodwill and overtime of the rail workers. That is exactly what the union and its members want because it helps to boosts pay packets and at the same time can be flagged up any time there is a wage claim as a lever to support their case. This is not new; look back at previous rail disputes. There is no appetite for this to be changed except perhaps by the very naive Transport Minister who simply does not understand the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Always fancied driving a train. Might apply. Looks like you should to. Would imagine its a long process before you get near a train, also fitness levels will need to be in the very fit category, and good qualifications. Anyway i got a 4.9% rise this year to boost my min wage, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Always fancied driving a train. Might apply. Looks like you should to. 9 minutes ago, henryheart said: Why is it necessary to see every criticism of the Scottish Government as being unionist? Sometimes the Scottish Government gets it badly wrong, end of, and there is no political agenda. Of course the service has run on the goodwill and overtime of the rail workers. That is exactly what the union and its members want because it helps to boosts pay packets and at the same time can be flagged up any time there is a wage claim as a lever to support their case. This is not new; look back at previous rail disputes. There is no appetite for this to be changed except perhaps by the very naive Transport Minister who simply does not understand the industry. I didn't say anything about unionists, bit defensive mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escobri Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Taffin said: Loads. On the train front the sooner we can get robot trains the better. My last annual pay rise was last year and c.2%. Was I offended? No, I was happy enough with it and if I wasn't I'd have looked for another job. Will the robots detect the sheep on the line though🐑 🐏 🐑 bump bump bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Would imagine its a long process before you get near a train, also fitness levels will need to be in the very fit category, and good qualifications. Anyway i got a 4.9% rise this year to boost my min wage, lol. 18 months to get up to speed, so to speak, they said today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 33 minutes ago, Smithee said: I'm on 4k. Train drivers want more than the 54k they're on. Boo ****ing hoo 😂 It's not the train drivers fault if you don't have a job dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 25 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Would imagine its a long process before you get near a train, also fitness levels will need to be in the very fit category, and good qualifications. Anyway i got a 4.9% rise this year to boost my min wage, lol. A fit train driver ? Not the ones I've known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, IronJambo said: 😂 It's not the train drivers fault if you don't have a job dude. Leave poor Smithee alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, IronJambo said: 😂 It's not the train drivers fault if you don't have a job dude. Nor is it mine, the point is that there are major problems ahead and folk that earn over a grand a week already shouldn't be on the priority list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 50 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Leave poor Smithee alone I wasnie picking on him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 47 minutes ago, Smithee said: Nor is it mine, the point is that there are major problems ahead and folk that earn over a grand a week already shouldn't be on the priority list. They have their fight and you have yours mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitonastranger Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 hours ago, frankblack said: The date I'm thinking of is at least a year ago when they announced they were nationalising it. At that point they should have been planning not waiting until the last manager left the office at Waverley. Thats some spin you put on that instead of admitting you were wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitonastranger Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: The Scottish Government “we never stop ………. fecking up” This coming from a Tory 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IronJambo said: They have their fight and you have yours mate. As I've said a few times, they're not going to get much public sympathy striking because 54k isn't enough, I think they've lost all perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitonastranger Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Smithee said: Yep. Three times the national minimum they earn. I mean, fair enough, very responsible job hurtling round the countryside in a tube, responsible for the lives of hundreds of passengers. But this country faces real problems, those guys won't win the battle for public sympathy if they strike. Every benefit you have from education to health to pay was fought for by unions and people taking action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Smithee said: As I've said a few times, they're not going to get much public sympathy striking because 54k isn't enough, I think they've lost all perspective. I don't think they're too worried about the opinion of people that are jealous of what they already have mate. They've got rising bills the same as anyone else and they're exercising their right to fight to maintain their current standards as best as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said: Every benefit you have from education to health to pay was fought for by unions and people taking action My dad was a shop steward, I've always been a union man. The train drivers don't know they're living IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IronJambo said: I don't think they're too worried about the opinion of people that are jealous of what they already have mate. They've got rising bills the same as anyone else and they're exercising their right to fight to maintain their current standards as best as they can. That's pretty low, it's not about jealousy, it's about people struggling to exist while the middle class go on strike for more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Just now, Smithee said: That's pretty low, it's not about jealousy, it's about people struggling to exist while the middle class go on strike for more I'm not being low bud, I'm just telling it like it is. It's not nice that people are struggling but that doesn't mean that those that aren't should roll over and have their tummy tickled by their employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryheart Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Smithee said: I didn't say anything about unionists, bit defensive mate Apologies, you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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