ScotRail

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I'm not being low bud, I'm just telling it like it is. 

 

It's not nice that people are struggling but that doesn't mean that those that aren't should roll over and have their tummy tickled by their employer. 

 

It is low, you're accusing me of jealousy to belittle what's a fair point

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Apologies, you are correct.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

The Scottish Government 

“we never stop ………. fecking up”

I knew they would but didnt expect it so quickly. Very impressive. 

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Trade union not happy with the Nats. 

 

When most people get a new job / portfolio they try do something positive. Not the SNP it seems. 

 

Meanwhile, the Aslef union accused the Scottish government of "industrial vandalism" over the cuts.

Kevin Lindsay, Aslef Scotland organiser, said: "This is what happens when you have political interference in industrial relations.

"It's time the Scottish government allowed ScotRail and Aslef to negotiate in a fair and open manner.

"These cuts will have a devastating effect on passengers and their confidence in our railway

If I may interject.

As with all these things everyone involved is being economical with the truth.

The trade union(s). I say trade unions as three are involved with Scotrail, actually we have been renamed Scottrains. ASLEF(Train drivers),

RMT(Conductors, Gateline staff, Ticket Examiners, and train dispatchers), TSSA(Booking office and admin staff).

All the above wanted the Scottish railway back in the ownership of the government. They got their wish.

Scottish Government. They decided over 18 months ago to take the railway back into public ownership, so to say they have only been in the job seven weeks, is being economical with the truth, they have effectively been running the railway in Scotland for the last 18 months, this I know as a railway employee.

The dispute with ASLEF will be resolved.

After that will come the dispute with the RMT, who are more militant(for want of a word), than ASLEF. 

The TSSA, will be the union that the government find it the easiest to deal with.

I firmly believe this is only the beginning of the disruption and reduced timetable on Scotland's railway.

Be prepared for many months of rail misery ahead.

[frankblack]

15 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

Thats some spin you put on that instead of admitting you were wrong 

 

Nope.  The SNP gave notice on Abellio's contract in December 2019 and had their thumb up their ass instead of allowing this existing issue of expected overtime.

 

Here's a BBC article dated 18 December 2019:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50841814

 

You can apologise to me now instead of being an SNP appologist.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

If I may interject.

As with all these things everyone involved is being economical with the truth.

The trade union(s). I say trade unions as three are involved with Scotrail, actually we have been renamed Scottrains. ASLEF(Train drivers),

RMT(Conductors, Gateline staff, Ticket Examiners, and train dispatchers), TSSA(Booking office and admin staff).

All the above wanted the Scottish railway back in the ownership of the government. They got their wish.

Scottish Government. They decided over 18 months ago to take the railway back into public ownership, so to say they have only been in the job seven weeks, is being economical with the truth, they have effectively been running the railway in Scotland for the last 18 months, this I know as a railway employee.

The dispute with ASLEF will be resolved.

After that will come the dispute with the RMT, who are more militant(for want of a word), than ASLEF. 

The TSSA, will be the union that the government find it the easiest to deal with.

I firmly believe this is only the beginning of the disruption and reduced timetable on Scotland's railway.

Be prepared for many months of rail misery ahead.

Would you say the Scottish government are responsible for the lack of train drivers?

[IronJambo]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It is low, you're accusing me of jealousy to belittle what's a fair point

I didn't accuse you of jealousy, I suggested that train drivers won't be concerned by those that are. Don't be offended by me if you've put yourself in that category.

[John Findlay]

Just now, Smithee said:

Would you say the Scottish government are responsible for the lack of train drivers?

Lack of train drivers, hmmmmm

[Unknown user]

Just now, IronJambo said:

I didn't accuse you of jealousy, I suggested that train drivers won't be concerned by those that are. Don't be offended by me if you've put yourself in that category.

Oh now, you did, you can try to do the old politician's shuffle but you did.

[frankblack]

Just now, Smithee said:

Would you say the Scottish government are responsible for the lack of train drivers?

 

Ultimately yes since they had 2.5 years to resolve the issue.

 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I didn't accuse you of jealousy, I suggested that train drivers won't be concerned by those that are. Don't be offended by me if you've put yourself in that category.

 

I'm not jealous of their salary, or their job. Striking whilst on over £50k in the current climate suggests nothing but greed imo.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Ultimately yes since they had 2.5 years to resolve the issue.

 

7 weeks Frank, you can't hire and fire til you run the thing

[Unknown user]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I'm not jealous of their salary, or their job. Striking whilst on over £50k in the current climate suggests nothing but greed imo.

And a massive lack of perspective.

[Cade]

Scottish Government gives the Unions what they want: "SNP caves into power-mad unions and forces taxpayers to pay train drivers inflated wages!!"

 

Scottish Government refuses to cave into Union demands, resulting in timetable problems: "SNP is wrecking the railways, give the poor Unions what they want!!"

 

Cannae win, likes.

[IronJambo]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Oh now, you did, you can try to do the old politician's shuffle but you did.

I really didn't, but your reaction says you are. I'd quite like their wage but I wouldn't fancy the job much.

[Spitonastranger]

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope.  The SNP gave notice on Abellio's contract in December 2019 and had their thumb up their ass instead of allowing this existing issue of expected overtime.

 

Here's a BBC article dated 18 December 2019:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50841814

 

You can apologise to me now instead of being an SNP appologist.

Didnt take control until April this year, if they had intervened earlier you would have been crying about it, no appoligist here except you 

 

 

[Spitonastranger]

21 minutes ago, Smithee said:

My dad was a shop steward, I've always been a union man. The train drivers don't know they're living IMO

So they should just accept what offered and meekly go away 

[Unknown user]

Just now, IronJambo said:

I really didn't, but your reaction says you are. I'd quite like their wage but I wouldn't fancy the job much.

I wouldn't fancy their job either but they'll get crucified if they go on strike while earning that much

[Unknown user]

Just now, Spitonastranger said:

So they should just accept what offered and meekly go away 

I don't think they should go on strike when already earning more than a grand a week, why are you leaping to the other extreme?

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

Didnt take control until April this year, if they had intervened earlier you would have been crying about it, no appoligist here except you 

 

 

 

Piss-poor deflection.  Its another massive shocker, worse even than the non-existant Ferries.

[Nucky Thompson]

Ah, back to the good old days of public ownership when the unions called strikes when someone ripped their tights.

 

Big mistake

 

[frankblack]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

7 weeks Frank, you can't hire and fire til you run the thing

 

If you are stepping in you can take action like hire and train drivers.  2.5 years is ample time for that.

[Mikey1874]

40 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

Every benefit you have from education to health to pay was fought for by unions and people taking action 

 

And there is groups of higher paid workers such as train drivers who benefited most from that.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

If you are stepping in you can take action like hire and train drivers.  2.5 years is ample time for that.

No you can't. They've been short for years, this is an institutional problem that they've taken over.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I have big concerns, I don't see any sign of a concerted effort to hire and train the number of drivers needed. If it stays that way it means poorer services and/or overtime needed to keep things going.

 

How they react is important, and they're making me nervous, but it's patently ridiculous to land this legacy issue at their door.

[dobmisterdobster]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

Scottish Government gives the Unions what they want: "SNP caves into power-mad unions and forces taxpayers to pay train drivers inflated wages!!"

 

Scottish Government refuses to cave into Union demands, resulting in timetable problems: "SNP is wrecking the railways, give the poor Unions what they want!!"

 

Cannae win, likes.

 

Unions are flexing their muscles like they did with Transport for London.

[Spitonastranger]

35 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Piss-poor deflection.  Its another massive shocker, worse even than the non-existant Ferries.

Wow talk about deflection, shouldn't have replied to you in the first place you try and bore people into submission 😴 

[Spitonastranger]

32 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

And there is groups of higher paid workers such as train drivers who benefited most from that.

Because they put the effort into win those rights

[Spitonastranger]

41 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I don't think they should go on strike when already earning more than a grand a week, why are you leaping to the other extreme?

I never said they should strike, you are implying that because they are well paid they should give up their rights. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

44 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Ah, back to the good old days of public ownership when the unions called strikes when someone ripped their tights.

 

Big mistake

 

Ah yes,  because the free market for utilities,  rail services etc have been SUCH a roaring success ai?

 

Even before this crisis the set up for gas and electric, for example, was a confusing shambles.

 

If it was in public ownership,  which it should be imo,  we would not have the gouging of prices that is going on just now as the Government could cap rises as they have in France and I think Spain &  Portugal.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Konrad von Carstein

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

I never said they should strike, you are implying that because they are well paid they should give up their rights. 

 

They absolutely shouldn't give up their rights...that doesn't mean that exercising them isn't tone deaf and selfish though

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

I never said they should strike, you are implying that because they are well paid they should give up their rights. 

I've been talking about their planned strike action this summer all along

[IronJambo]

15 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Ah yes,  because the free market for utilities,  rail services etc have been SUCH a roaring success ai?

 

Even before this crisis the set up for gas and electric, for example, was a confusing shambles.

 

If it was in public ownership,  which it should be imo,  we would not have the gouging of prices that is going on just now as the Government could cap rises as they have in France and I think Spain &  Portugal.

Energy is privatised in all of the countries you mention. There's nothing to stop our government acting in the way you mention. 

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

They absolutely shouldn't give up their rights...that doesn't mean that exercising them isn't tone deaf and selfish though

Tone deaf is exactly right

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

Energy is privatised in all of the countries you mention. There's nothing to stop our government acting in the way you mention. 

Does the French government not have majority shareholding? Anyway whatever the case they ordered the 4% cap on price rises.

 

Agree entirely with your second sentence 👍

Edited May 19, 2022 by Konrad von Carstein

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, IronJambo said:

Energy is privatised in all of the countries you mention. There's nothing to stop our government acting in the way you mention. 

Correct, although public utilities should be in public hands for me.

[IronJambo]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Correct, although public utilities should be in public hands for me.

Agreed

[IronJambo]

12 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Does the French government not have majority shareholding? Anyway whatever the case they ordered the 4% cap on price rises.

 

Agree entirely with your second sentence 👍

In 160 or so companies, I'd be surprised.

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

In 160 or so companies, I'd be surprised.

Found this and it seems to explain what I was rambling about:

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/electricity-charges-what-are-other-countries-doing-to-ease-the-pain-1.4792963

[Spitonastranger]

36 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I've been talking about their planned strike action this summer all along

Ok

[IronJambo]

15 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Found this and it seems to explain what I was rambling about:

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/electricity-charges-what-are-other-countries-doing-to-ease-the-pain-1.4792963

That's some good info! Our government should definitely be doing more.

I'm not sure how the EU will react to most of that though, as they're the ones that are completely pro privatisation and against government interference. You don't have to go too far back to when they made France take back the subsidises they gave to their steel makers.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Spitonastranger said:

Wow talk about deflection, shouldn't have replied to you in the first place you try and bore people into submission 😴 

 Pot and kettles from you while you keep up your apologist campaign, replying to everything anti-Scot Gov.

[Spitonastranger]

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 Pot and kettles from you while you keep up your apologist campaign, replying to everything anti-Scot Gov.

you thinking your making a point

[Unknown user]

38 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

That's some good info! Our government should definitely be doing more.

I'm not sure how the EU will react to most of that though, as they're the ones that are completely pro privatisation and against government interference. You don't have to go too far back to when they made France take back the subsidises they gave to their steel makers.

They certainly never prevented the Dutch from nationalising their railways

[doctor jambo]

4 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Loads.

 

 

On the train front the sooner we can get robot trains the better.

 

My last annual pay rise was last year and c.2%. Was I offended? No, I was happy enough with it and if I wasn't I'd have looked for another job.

Last year the NHS cut my pay by 25% having steered one of their services through two years of a pandemic .

They sacked us all and offered us temp work only at a massive cut .

This year we are getting 0%.

As subcontractors nobody gives a shiny shite.

[il Duce McTarkin]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Last year the NHS cut my pay by 25% having steered one of their services through two years of a pandemic .

They sacked us all and offered us temp work only at a massive cut .

This year we are getting 0%.

As subcontractors nobody gives a shiny shite.

 

Would you not be better off just mugging the NHS off, doc? You've done your bit. Maybe time to suck up some of that private sector wonga. If not here then some country that appreciates your talents.

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Scottish Government gives the Unions what they want: "SNP caves into power-mad unions and forces taxpayers to pay train drivers inflated wages!!"

 

Scottish Government refuses to cave into Union demands, resulting in timetable problems: "SNP is wrecking the railways, give the poor Unions what they want!!"

 

Cannae win, likes.

 

t'was ever thus with nationalised industries. you broke it, you fix it, can't pin this one on the tories.

[IronJambo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

They certainly never prevented the Dutch from nationalising their railways

I meant for everything else. 

 

It's thought that the Forth Railway Package would/will kill rail nationalisation within the EU though. There's a lot more info out there on it than this but here you go https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Railway_Package

[pablo]

7 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

t'was ever thus with nationalised industries. you broke it, you fix it, can't pin this one on the tories.

 

Exactly. They wanted this, there's no hiding place and it's impossible to blame Westminster or the Tories this time.

 

Their record in everything else they attempt to deliver would suggest that this will be a yet another shambles.

 

The difference here is this one is real time, in the moment tangible, getting from a to b. It's not education or health services, it's people getting to work on time.

 

Good luck with appearing to be more interested in virtue signalling, gender identity politics than that.

[Harry Potter]

10 hours ago, Smithee said:

Correct, although public utilities should be in public hands for me.

spot on.

[Lord Montpelier]

Our Transport Minister is actually a teacher by profession. She won't have a clue what to do in this situation.