ScotRail

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Fault? Who's talking about fault?

 

The only reason I bring it up is to show the difference between the actual difficulty millions face and the privileged conditions they enjoy. If they strike people will turn on them.

 

You'd imagine the unions paid a part in universal credit being 4k? 

 

You don't think the unions played a part in social benefits or the welfare state? 

 

Train drivers have a huge responsibility and their jobs on the line if they make a mistake. The hours they work if they have kids their partner can't work or needs to have a pretty flexible job. They are paid well but if they can't ask for a pay rise now then when? When they are earning as little as universal credit? 

 

Imagine moaning about people wanting a pay rise. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, fabienleclerq said:

 

You don't think the unions played a part in social benefits or the welfare state? 

 

Train drivers have a huge responsibility and their jobs on the line if they make a mistake. The hours they work if they have kids their partner can't work or needs to have a pretty flexible job. They are paid well but if they can't ask for a pay rise now then when? When they are earning as little as universal credit? 

 

Imagine moaning about people wanting a pay rise. 

 

I'm not.

I'm moaning at them threatening industrial action for a pay rise when they already earn way over average and the nation's 50 shades of ****ed. 

They're on 50k+ a year, they won't get much sympathy from a public that earns much less

[fabienleclerq]

10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm not.

I'm moaning at them threatening industrial action for a pay rise when they already earn way over average and the nation's 50 shades of ****ed. 

They're on 50k+ a year, they won't get much sympathy from a public that earns much less

 

Sympathy doesn't pay the bills same as a clap on a Thursday doesn't help NHS staff. 

 

So they shouldn't get a pay rise until they earn the national average? They earn less than most drivers in their industry, the national average is irrelevant. 

 

 

[IronJambo]

58 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Would they ****, self entitled twats are no doubt already causing nurses problems getting to and from work.

The same drivers that showed up for work all through the pandemic to get doctors, nurses etc to work? Yeah, they don't care do they.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

The same drivers that showed up for work all through the pandemic to get doctors, nurses etc to work? Yeah, they don't care do they.

Well said, they, and their union, don't give a a toss. 

They have seen opportunity and are selfishly going to grab it.

They sat in a cabin, protected from the public, during Covid. Schedule also reduced during lockdown.

Hardly the work of heroes.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

31 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm not.

I'm moaning at them threatening industrial action for a pay rise when they already earn way over average and the nation's 50 shades of ****ed. 

They're on 50k+ a year, they won't get much sympathy from a public that earns much less

You won't get agreement on here from some as they have skin in game and are only looking out for number one.

 

[IronJambo]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

 

They sat in a cabin, protected from the public, during Covid.

 

That's a common misconception that I used to think as well. It turned out from month to month that more drivers in the industry were catching covid than anyone else, even more so than guards who were working within 1m (and closer) of the public throughout. 

 

What was missed and clearly still not realised by people like yourself is that all the drivers use the same cabs. With some routes changing drivers several times you can easily have 4 drivers effectively sharing to same space and pressing the same buttons.

 

Their supposed safe space was a covid hotspot. We lost a few drivers 😢

[Unknown user]

26 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Sympathy doesn't pay the bills same as a clap on a Thursday doesn't help NHS staff. 

 

So they shouldn't get a pay rise until they earn the national average? They earn less than most drivers in their industry, the national average is irrelevant. 

 

 

Sympathy doesn't pay the bills, but their employer has to listen to the public mood.

 

I don't know why you keep setting up strawmen, I didn't say they shouldn't get a raise, they've already turned down a raise.

 

 

[fabienleclerq]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Sympathy doesn't pay the bills, but their employer has to listen to the public mood.

 

I don't know why you keep setting up strawmen, I didn't say they shouldn't get a raise, they've already turned down a raise.

 

 

 

What is the public mood? Going by the social media the public are more supportive of the drivers than the government. 

 

They are getting criticism from their employer for not wanting to work their days off ffs. 

 

You said they were being greedy asking for one because they earn more than the national average and started bringing your own take home into it. 

[1874robbo]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Sympathy doesn't pay the bills, but their employer has to listen to the public mood.

 

I don't know why you keep setting up strawmen, I didn't say they shouldn't get a raise, they've already turned down a raise.

 

 

What do you work as Smithee?

[Unknown user]

31 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

What is the public mood? Going by the social media the public are more supportive of the drivers than the government. 

 

They are getting criticism from their employer for not wanting to work their days off ffs. 

 

You said they were being greedy asking for one because they earn more than the national average and started bringing your own take home into it. 

They're not on strike yet, if the trains go down we'll see.

 

I didn't say they shouldn't get a rise, that's 100% your strawman

[Unknown user]

31 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

What do you work as Smithee?

 

I don't mate, you?

[fabienleclerq]

Just now, Smithee said:

They're not on strike yet, if the trains go down we'll see.

 

I didn't say they shouldn't get a rise, that's 100% your strawman

So you think they should get one? 

 

So quoting the national average wage was irrelevant then. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

So you think they should get one? 

 

So quoting the national average wage was irrelevant then. 

 

I didn't quote the average wage. I did mention it, but only in as much as drivers earning way over the average wage are unlikely to garner strike support from people earning much less when belts are tightening and it's them being inconvenienced.

[benny]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well said, they, and their union, don't give a a toss. 

They have seen opportunity and are selfishly going to grab it.

They sat in a cabin, protected from the public, during Covid. Schedule also reduced during lockdown.

Hardly the work of heroes.

 

Sounding like a right tory.

Aye a cab protects you.😂

[1874robbo]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't mate, you?

Yes I do mate 

[1874robbo]

23 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't mate, you?

Any reason why you don’t? Illness etc?

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Any reason why you don’t? Illness etc?

Do you have a point or are we just digging for an angle?

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Yes I do mate 

You asked what I worked as. You?

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Do you have a point or are we just digging for an angle?

Just wondering if there’s a good reason why you don’t as the news this week said unemployment at very low levels and lots of jobs out there.

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

You asked what I worked as. You?

Train driver, but not with scotrail.

[Unknown user]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

Just wondering if there’s a good reason why you don’t as the news this week said unemployment at very low levels and lots of jobs out there.

Aye there's a reason, I won't be justifying it to you though

[1874robbo]

Just now, Smithee said:

Aye there's a reason, I won't be justifying it to you though

No probs 

 

[jambo89]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I didn't quote the average wage. I did mention it, but only in as much as drivers earning way over the average wage are unlikely to garner strike support from people earning much less when belts are tightening and it's them being inconvenienced.

You're coming across as a little bitter in this thread. I understand you've recently had a change in circumstance and perhaps this is affecting your view of things, but the right to strike for better pay and conditions is one of the most fundamental rights a worker can have regardless of level of icome. Teachers earn above the average, so would not garner public support is the logical follow on from your point.

 

The view you've taken is similar to that of the right wing media / business' and I don't believe you to be like that, but is coming across as such here.

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

You're coming across as a little bitter in this thread. I understand you've recently had a change in circumstance and perhaps this is affecting your view of things, but the right to strike for better pay and conditions is one of the most fundamental rights a worker can have regardless of level of icome. Teachers earn above the average, so would not garner public support is the logical follow on from your point.

 

The view you've taken is similar to that of the right wing media / business' and I don't believe you to be like that, but is coming across as such here.

Well said 

 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

You're coming across as a little bitter in this thread. I understand you've recently had a change in circumstance and perhaps this is affecting your view of things, but the right to strike for better pay and conditions is one of the most fundamental rights a worker can have regardless of level of icome. Teachers earn above the average, so would not garner public support is the logical follow on from your point.

 

The view you've taken is similar to that of the right wing media / business' and I don't believe you to be like that, but is coming across as such here.

I think I have a reasonable view, it really isn't about my personal circumstances except by an example.

 

I'm the son of a shop steward, I firmly believe in unions.

But what we're seeing here, IMO, is the bad side of the union.

They've waited for the Scottish government to take over and immediately tried to show who's boss.

 

The current situation is one years in the making, the timetable can only be fulfilled by drivers working overtime and they're not even contractually obliged to work Sundays.

This leaves us in a position where they hold the aces, anything they don't like and they can work to rule. Now that's fine, I haven't once complained about that, of course that's their right. But ScotRail have a service to provide and the obvious answer is to employ enough train drivers to cover the service, and have drivers work Sundays.

 

But this is where the union are flexing. They have great terms and conditions, their rep said it himself, and they're already well paid. They've been offered a raise plus performance bonus, a small raise, but in the grand scheme right now I think they need to be realistic.

 

Instead they plan to strike this summer if they don't get more, and I think that while the rest of the country are tightening their belts, struggling, while the average wage in Scotland will officially leave you in fuel poverty this winter, I don't think they should be threatening strike.

 

Railways not having any drivers contracted to work on a Sunday is ****ing ridiculous, it needs sorted.

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, IronJambo said:

That's a common misconception that I used to think as well. It turned out from month to month that more drivers in the industry were catching covid than anyone else, even more so than guards who were working within 1m (and closer) of the public throughout. 

 

What was missed and clearly still not realised by people like yourself is that all the drivers use the same cabs. With some routes changing drivers several times you can easily have 4 drivers effectively sharing to same space and pressing the same buttons.

 

Their supposed safe space was a covid hotspot. We lost a few drivers 😢

Didn't take long for Covid to be used as excuse. Loads of different industries saw people contract Covid, yet you don't see them being as greedy as your lot.

Rail workers more than happy, in fact extremely keen, to put customers to inconvenience while enjoying a great terms and conditions (union reps words, not mine).

Just admit don't care if others lose jobs or struggle to get to their work, as long as you are okay. It's fine, it's the hypocrisy and excuses behind it that jars in throat.

 

 

[escobri]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I think I have a reasonable view, it really isn't about my personal circumstances except by an example.

 

I'm the son of a shop steward, I firmly believe in unions.

But what we're seeing here, IMO, is the bad side of the union.

They've waited for the Scottish government to take over and immediately tried to show who's boss.

 

The current situation is one years in the making, the timetable can only be fulfilled by drivers working overtime and they're not even contractually obliged to work Sundays.

This leaves us in a position where they hold the aces, anything they don't like and they can work to rule. Now that's fine, I haven't once complained about that, of course that's their right. But ScotRail have a service to provide and the obvious answer is to employ enough train drivers to cover the service, and have drivers work Sundays.

 

But this is where the union are flexing. They have great terms and conditions, their rep said it himself, and they're already well paid. They've been offered a raise plus performance bonus, a small raise, but in the grand scheme right now I think they need to be realistic.

 

Instead they plan to strike this summer if they don't get more, and I think that while the rest of the country are tightening their belts, struggling, while the average wage in Scotland will officially leave you in fuel poverty this winter, I don't think they should be threatening strike.

 

Railways not having any drivers contracted to work on a Sunday is ****ing ridiculous, it needs sorted.

 Scotrail has trains running today, so are those drivers rostered or scabs?

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, escobri said:

 Scotrail has trains running today, so are those drivers rostered or scabs?

It’s not a strike

Drivers are just exercising their right not to work overtime but some may still want to, it’s a choice thing.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, escobri said:

 Scotrail has trains running today, so are those drivers rostered or scabs?

You'd need to ask them

[escobri]

2 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

It’s not a strike

Drivers are just exercising their right not to work overtime but some may still want to, it’s a choice thing.

👍 some will be cleaning up then , overtime working is a hard habit to break 🤑🤑

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, 1874robbo said:

It’s not a strike

Drivers are just exercising their right not to work overtime but some may still want to, it’s a choice thing.

Perhaps they didn't have time to get together and organise a BBQ. Seems that's something they do when they can't be arsed working.

Poor little souls with their big salaries, overtime rates and protected lifestyle, must be hard when your actually asked to help others and not only consider yourself.

[jambo89]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I think I have a reasonable view, it really isn't about my personal circumstances except by an example.

 

I'm the son of a shop steward, I firmly believe in unions.

But what we're seeing here, IMO, is the bad side of the union.

They've waited for the Scottish government to take over and immediately tried to show who's boss.

 

The current situation is one years in the making, the timetable can only be fulfilled by drivers working overtime and they're not even contractually obliged to work Sundays.

This leaves us in a position where they hold the aces, anything they don't like and they can work to rule. Now that's fine, I haven't once complained about that, of course that's their right. But ScotRail have a service to provide and the obvious answer is to employ enough train drivers to cover the service, and have drivers work Sundays.

 

But this is where the union are flexing. They have great terms and conditions, their rep said it himself, and they're already well paid. They've been offered a raise plus performance bonus, a small raise, but in the grand scheme right now I think they need to be realistic.

 

Instead they plan to strike this summer if they don't get more, and I think that while the rest of the country are tightening their belts, struggling, while the average wage in Scotland will officially leave you in fuel poverty this winter, I don't think they should be threatening strike.

 

Railways not having any drivers contracted to work on a Sunday is ****ing ridiculous, it needs sorted.

 

This is exactly what you would expect the union to do. The very fact they have great terms and conditions shows what a decent union they are. If anything (unless you come from the other side of the political spectrum, which I don't think you do), the union should be lauded. There job is to represent their memebers and as far as I can see, they have done that extremely well. To complain about unions 'flexing' and digging out the drivers for there decent terms and conditions smacks of the sort of 'anti-union' behavior we see from the right.

 

As a son of a shop steward (my mother was union rep too), you'll know that striking is always seen as the absolute last resort. Negotiations will have been ongoing for months and the terms that have not been met. The terms that the memebers themselves want. They won't / can't (thank the tories for that) go on strike unless they get enough support for the action of last resort. Instead, you are falling on the side of the multi-million pound business for not meeting these terms (I'm aware of the ownership model), and opted against supporting the working man.

 

 

 

 

[1874robbo]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Perhaps they didn't have time to get together and organise a BBQ. Seems that's something they do when they can't be arsed working.

Poor little souls with their big salaries, overtime rates and protected lifestyle, must be hard when your actually asked to help others and not only consider yourself.

You seem very bitter at people deciding not to work overtime and spend time with their families 

whatever happened to Sundays being a day of rest? 

[escobri]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

You'd need to ask them

Your awfy worked up about it so thought you knew 🤣

[Harry Potter]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Perhaps they didn't have time to get together and organise a BBQ. Seems that's something they do when they can't be arsed working.

Poor little souls with their big salaries, overtime rates and protected lifestyle, must be hard when your actually asked to help others and not only consider yourself.

BBQ , doubt the weathers that good.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

This is exactly what you would expect the union to do. The very fact they have great terms and conditions shows what a decent union they are. If anything (unless you come from the other side of the political spectrum, which I don't think you do), the union should be lauded. There job is to represent their memebers and as far as I can see, they have done that extremely well. To complain about unions 'flexing' and digging out the drivers for there decent terms and conditions smacks of the sort of 'anti-union' behavior we see from the right.

 

As a son of a shop steward (my mother was union rep too), you'll know that striking is always seen as the absolute last resort. Negotiations will have been ongoing for months and the terms that have not been met. The terms that the memebers themselves want. They won't / can't (thank the tories for that) go on strike unless they get enough support for the action of last resort. Instead, you are falling on the side of the multi-million pound business for not meeting these terms (I'm aware of the ownership model), and opted against supporting the working man.

 

 

 

 

ScotRail were nationalised seven weeks ago

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, escobri said:

Your awfy worked up about it so thought you knew 🤣

I'm perfectly calm bud, don't confuse debating your view with emotion

[William H. Bonney]

4 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

You seem very bitter at people deciding not to work overtime and spend time with their families 

whatever happened to Sundays being a day of rest? 

 

We work in an industry where our services are relied upon 7 days a week.  Nobody should be getting extra pay because its a Sunday. 

 

[escobri]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I'm perfectly calm bud, don't confuse debating your view with emotion

Nae bother, you ever been sacked by scotrail? 

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

 

We work in an industry where our services are relied upon 7 days a week.  Nobody should be getting extra pay because its a Sunday. 

 

If that’s their conditions of employment then it’s up to the company to try and buy that right out from them.

No employee in their right mind would give up their Sundays off to have it become part of their working week if it wasn’t in their contract already.

would you? 

[1874robbo]

3 minutes ago, escobri said:

Nae bother, you ever been sacked by scotrail? 

😂😂 crossed my mind also.

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

This is exactly what you would expect the union to do. The very fact they have great terms and conditions shows what a decent union they are. If anything (unless you come from the other side of the political spectrum, which I don't think you do), the union should be lauded. There job is to represent their memebers and as far as I can see, they have done that extremely well. To complain about unions 'flexing' and digging out the drivers for there decent terms and conditions smacks of the sort of 'anti-union' behavior we see from the right.

 

As a son of a shop steward (my mother was union rep too), you'll know that striking is always seen as the absolute last resort. Negotiations will have been ongoing for months and the terms that have not been met. The terms that the memebers themselves want. They won't / can't (thank the tories for that) go on strike unless they get enough support for the action of last resort. Instead, you are falling on the side of the multi-million pound business for not meeting these terms (I'm aware of the ownership model), and opted against supporting the working man.

 

I'm not at all against the working man, or unions, there has to be balance though. I've said more than once that they're quite within their rights to work to rule and to want more. But it's ridiculous that no one's contracted to work Sundays. They'll **** Scotland up if they go on strike and put pressure on people in much less privileged positions - my sympathies are with those people.

 

Plus of course, an overactive and arguably over powerful union give those wankers on the right the fuel they need to say "well unions are shit let's bust them"

 

[William H. Bonney]

.

Edited May 22, 2022 by William H. Bonney
Edit

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, William H. Bonney said:

 

Probably not. My colleagues did though, before I joined. 

More fool them.

[William H. Bonney]

5 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

If that’s their conditions of employment then it’s up to the company to try and buy that right out from them.

No employee in their right mind would give up their Sundays off to have it become part of their working week if it wasn’t in their contract already.

would you? 

 

Probably not. My colleagues did though, before I joined. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

13 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

You seem very bitter at people deciding not to work overtime and spend time with their families 

whatever happened to Sundays being a day of rest? 

If you believe this is about Sunday working, you're mistaken.

This is a dick swinging contest with a Union who have greedy members who want public ownership and protection while enjoying pay rises and benefits that their industry and country can't afford.

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If you believe this is about Sunday working, you're mistaken.

This is a dick swinging contest with a Union who have greedy members who want public ownership and protection while enjoying pay rises and benefits that their industry and country can't afford.

What do you work as? 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

If that’s their conditions of employment then it’s up to the company to try and buy that right out from them.

No employee in their right mind would give up their Sundays off to have it become part of their working week if it wasn’t in their contract already.

would you? 

That's not the only option though, I'm sure loads of people would be up for a part time job working Sundays and evenings for 27k

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

That's not the only option though, I'm sure loads of people would be up for a part time job working Sundays and evenings for 27k

Apply then 👍