ScotRail

[Unknown user]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

Apply then 👍

Apply for what?

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Apply for what?

A job as a driver part time working Sundays and evenings.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, 1874robbo said:

A job as a driver part time working Sundays and evenings.

Oh right, that's great advice, apply for a job that doesn't exist. Cheers.

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Oh right, that's great advice, apply for a job that doesn't exist. Cheers.

So loads of people won’t be getting it then?

 

[jambo89]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

ScotRail were nationalised seven weeks ago

 

I'm well aware of that. It wasn't 7 weeks ago though and these things are discussed over long periods of time!

 

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm not at all against the working man, or unions, there has to be balance though. I've said more than once that they're quite within their rights to work to rule and to want more. But it's ridiculous that no one's contracted to work Sundays. They'll **** Scotland up if they go on strike and put pressure on people in much less privileged positions - my sympathies are with those people.

 

Plus of course, an overactive and arguably over powerful union give those wankers on the right the fuel they need to say "well unions are shit let's bust them"

 

I agree, but I think where we diverge in this case is that you believe this union, and its members, have too much power and their working conditions are much better than you believe they are entitled to. I say this is what happens when you stick together and have a strong union.

 

Regarding your 'it'll '****' scotland' point, this is another tactic used by the media to garner support against strike action. Put it all on to the workers and unions instead of focusing on the root of the problem, the refusal of the business to offer better terms or meet the worker halfway.

[fabienleclerq]

45 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Perhaps they didn't have time to get together and organise a BBQ. Seems that's something they do when they can't be arsed working.

Poor little souls with their big salaries, overtime rates and protected lifestyle, must be hard when your actually asked to help others and not only consider yourself.

 

Why are you so bitter?

 

Can't be arsed working their day off you mean? Do you work your days off? And if you do it's it out the kindness of your own heart? 

 

 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

I'm well aware of that. It wasn't 7 weeks ago though and these things are discussed over long periods of time!

 

I agree, but I think where we diverge in this case is that you believe this union, and its members, have too much power and their working conditions are much better than you believe they are entitled to. I say this is what happens when you stick together and have a strong union.

 

Regarding your 'it'll '****' scotland' point, this is another tactic used by the media to garner support against strike action. Put it all on to the workers and unions instead of focusing on the root of the problem, the refusal of the business to offer better terms or meet the worker halfway.

I'm not parroting the media, it's my own opinion.

I don't believe the core problem here is the refusal of the business, it's the current setup where the employer has to rely on overtime and goodwill for the basic service to exist. I'll say again, of course unions should try and get better for their members, but I think a strike would be ill advised 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

I'm well aware of that. It wasn't 7 weeks ago though and these things are discussed over long periods of time!

 

I agree, but I think where we diverge in this case is that you believe this union, and its members, have too much power and their working conditions are much better than you believe they are entitled to. I say this is what happens when you stick together and have a strong union.

 

Regarding your 'it'll '****' scotland' point, this is another tactic used by the media to garner support against strike action. Put it all on to the workers and unions instead of focusing on the root of the problem, the refusal of the business to offer better terms or meet the worker halfway.

It was 7 weeks and 2 days ago

[fabienleclerq]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It was 7 weeks and 2 days ago

They've been in charge for months. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

50 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

What do you work as? 

Why? It is in private sector. That has nothing to do with rail workers greed.

[1874robbo]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Why? It is in private sector. That has nothing to do with rail workers greed.

Just so we can compare your wages in relation to your job and decide if you’re overpaid or not.

only fair I’d say 

[jambo89]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It was 7 weeks and 2 days ago

I'm surpised that you know the exact day that negotiations started for the better conditions, but I'll take your word for it.

[Malinga the Swinga]

So we have Alex Gordon, RMT president, a life long Marxist and member of communist party who believes Ukraine is failed state run by neo-Nazis and a supporter of Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the unions assistant general secretary previously posed for pictures with Russian paramilitary leaders in Donbas and again, supports Russian presence there.

Are these guys really the type of people we want running train unions. They are a throwback to the gloomy days of 70's when unions held so much power.

Any business that loses money because of a strike should be able to claim it back from the unions.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 hours ago, 1874robbo said:

Just so we can compare your wages in relation to your job and decide if you’re overpaid or not.

only fair I’d say 

Well, when my industry holds the country to ransom to I'll let you know.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, when my industry holds the country to ransom to I'll let you know.

ScotRail cuts: Scottish minister urges workers to consider risks of potential recession when asking for pay rises amid train dispute | Edinburgh News (scotsman.com)

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, jambo89 said:

I'm surpised that you know the exact day that negotiations started for the better conditions, but I'll take your word for it.

The article I linked to on the BBC dated 18 December 2019 announced that the Scottish Government was taking over Scotrail.

 

Surely the clock starts ticking from then and you have your due diligence in place?  Or was no planning and preparation done for the date control changed hands?

 

This 7 weeks timeline is wishful thinking.

Edited May 22, 2022 by frankblack

[1874robbo]

14 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, when my industry holds the country to ransom to I'll let you know.

So you’re probably grossly overpaid for what you do and don’t want to say.

cool.👍😂😂

[Malinga the Swinga]

57 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

So you’re probably grossly overpaid for what you do and don’t want to say.

cool.👍😂😂

Well, I don't think so, but that's not the subject of the thread.

As I said, I'm not the one threatening to disrupt UK industry. If that changes, jkb will be first to know.

I will say I continued to work through pandemic and was classed as first line of workers. I had my classified letter.

Just not using that as an excuse for holding country to ransom.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Malinga the Swinga

[IronJambo]

6 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Didn't take long for Covid to be used as excuse. Loads of different industries saw people contract Covid, yet you don't see them being as greedy as your lot.

Rail workers more than happy, in fact extremely keen, to put customers to inconvenience while enjoying a great terms and conditions (union reps words, not mine).

Just admit don't care if others lose jobs or struggle to get to their work, as long as you are okay. It's fine, it's the hypocrisy and excuses behind it that jars in throat.

 

 

I've not been on strike for years but yes, I will absolutely stand up for myself when the time comes (I have voted for strike action in a current ballot). I've no shame for that and it's my right to strike if we get the mandate.

 

How people get to work in the event of us striking is none of my business. My only concern will be how many days we need to strike for and how I pay my bills through it.

 

No excuses, no hypocrisy. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by IronJambo

[jambo89]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

The article I linked to on the BBC dated 18 December 2019 announced that the Scottish Government was taking over Scotrail.

 

Surely the clock starts ticking from then and you have your due diligence in place?  Or was no planning and preparation done for the date control changed hands?

 

This 7 weeks timeline is wishful thinking.

I highly doubt the Scottish government would be able to negotiate the terms of a wage rise (or not in this case) on behalf of a fully independent and private company. 

[jambo89]

20 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, I don't think so, but that's not the subject of the thread.

As I said, I'm not the one threatening to disrupt UK industry. If that changes, jkb will be first to know.

I will say I continued to work through pandemic and was classed as first line of workers. I had my classified letter.

Just not using that as an excuse for holding country to ransom.

Anyone who strikes disrupts UK industry.

 

I also continued to work during the pandemic and would never be in line for a “pay rise” as an independent contractor. I would still choose to support those in my industry who did strike and would not cross a picket line though. Those who do cross, as well as criticise those who do strike, are displaying there wretch behaviour (to borrow an industry term) 

[frankblack]

5 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

I highly doubt the Scottish government would be able to negotiate the terms of a wage rise (or not in this case) on behalf of a fully independent and private company. 

 

Could they not have ensured that they had enough trained staff in place to man a 7-day a week service?  I can't think of any other business that doesn't have the staff to fulfill their business hours.

[1874robbo]

30 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well, I don't think so, but that's not the subject of the thread.

As I said, I'm not the one threatening to disrupt UK industry. If that changes, jkb will be first to know.

I will say I continued to work through pandemic and was classed as first line of workers. I had my classified letter.

Just not using that as an excuse for holding country to ransom.

😂😂😂ok then pal no worries.👍👍

[1874robbo]

13 minutes ago, IronJambo said:

I've not been on strike for years but yes, I will absolutely stand up for myself when the time comes (I have voted for strike action in a current ballot). I've no shame for that and it's my right to strike if we get the mandate.

 

How people get to work in the event of us striking is none of my business. My only concern will be how many days we need to strike for and how I pay my bills through it.

 

No excuses, no hypocrisy. 

Well said brother 👍

[Norm]

Billionaires and their media chums working their magic again, I see. 

 

Folk getting annoyed that people on 50k might strike for more cash, while profiteering ****wads with more money than they can ever spend continue to screw over all of us. 

 

Ivor the engine driver is not your enemy. The billionaires are the ones you want to divert your energy to. 

[1874robbo]

3 minutes ago, Norm said:

Billionaires and their media chums working their magic again, I see. 

 

Folk getting annoyed that people on 50k might strike for more cash, while profiteering ****wads with more money than they can ever spend continue to screw over all of us. 

 

Ivor the engine driver is not your enemy. The billionaires are the ones you want to divert your energy to. 

Exactly mate, the tax evasion, the money spunked on PPE, the businesses closed due to covid restrictions but wait the train drivers want a rise that they’ve not had for a few years!!! Yet politicians get one every year.

its the only thing the idiots agree on in the chamber every year it comes up!!!!!!

[Norm]

According to the Sunday Times, we've more billionaires in the UK than ever before. These are the people that our anger should be directed at. Not your average working man. 

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

So we have Alex Gordon, RMT president, a life long Marxist and member of communist party who believes Ukraine is failed state run by neo-Nazis and a supporter of Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the unions assistant general secretary previously posed for pictures with Russian paramilitary leaders in Donbas and again, supports Russian presence there.

Are these guys really the type of people we want running train unions. They are a throwback to the gloomy days of 70's when unions held so much power.

Any business that loses money because of a strike should be able to claim it back from the unions.

 

 

Do you realise all the rights you have at work has basically come from the unions? 

 

Imagine hating on workers wanting a pay rise then refusing to say what industry you are in. Transport ministers teaboy? 😂

[1874robbo]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Do you realise all the rights you have at work has basically come from the unions? 

 

Imagine hating on workers wanting a pay rise then refusing to say what industry you are in. Transport ministers teaboy? 😂

He’s scared to post what he does because he knows we will all know he’s an overpaid worker.

(admin delete)

[Gizmo]

44 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Could they not have ensured that they had enough trained staff in place to man a 7-day a week service?  I can't think of any other business that doesn't have the staff to fulfill their business hours.

ScotRail or even back in the BR days has always been run like this with service provision requiring working rest days. This is straight from a local  former Station Master's son, said it has always been the way even back in his father's day that service was maintained by staff working rest days.   

Maybe it needs to be changed if the drivers do not wish to sustain this (which is quite surely their right) unless the drivers/union are using it as a negotiating tactic re pay rises/or working conditions negotiation. 

This is clearly not something that can be quickly mitigated no matter your desire to solely attribute blame to the new operators.

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

ScotRail or even back in the BR days has always been run like this with service provision requiring working rest days. This is straight from a local  former Station Master's son, said it has always been the way even back in his father's day that service was maintained by staff working rest days.   

Maybe it needs to be changed if the drivers do not wish to sustain this (which is quite surely their right) unless the drivers/union are using it as a negotiating tactic re pay rises/or working conditions negotiation. 

This is clearly not something that can be quickly mitigated no matter your desire to solely attribute blame to the new operators.

 

I'd agree with that but given how long this has been an issue and bargaining chip for the unions it should have been addressed.  As I said the Scottish Government gave notice in 2019 that they were taking control so really should have been on top of it in the years between then and now.

[fabienleclerq]

16 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

He’s scared to post what he does because he knows we will all know he’s an overpaid worker.

shitbag 

Pretty cowardly to attack working men and women without being willing to say the industry he works in. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Just now, fabienleclerq said:

Pretty cowardly to attack working men and women without being willing to say the industry he works in. 

 

What difference is it going to make exactly?

 

I work in Scientific research. Am I an overpayed shitebag? Can I have an opinion on strikes that'll likely have an effect on me? Or do you need to be in a specific industry?

[1874robbo]

8 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

What difference is it going to make exactly?

 

I work in Scientific research. Am I an overpayed shitebag? Can I have an opinion on strikes that'll likely have an effect on me? Or do you need to be in a specific industry?

If you are willing to have a go slating  people for being overpaid then yes at least have the gonads to say what you do so judgement can be made if I think you’re also overpaid.

he’s not saying so obv has something to hide.

Edited May 22, 2022 by 1874robbo

[kila]

If more drivers were recruited, that'd reduce the opportunity to earn overtime so could existing drivers potentially end up earning less despite even getting the rise of base salary they want?

 

[fabienleclerq]

1 minute ago, kila said:

If more drivers were recruited, that'd reduce the opportunity to earn overtime so could existing drivers potentially end up earning less despite even getting the rise of base salary they want?

 

There's 130 in training atm. 

[IronJambo]

12 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

What difference is it going to make exactly?

 

I work in Scientific research. Am I an overpayed shitebag? Can I have an opinion on strikes that'll likely have an effect on me? Or do you need to be in a specific industry?

 

13 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

He reckons that train drivers are grossly overpaid for their skills and that them and any other rail worker should just be grateful they have a job, therefore they shouldn't have the cheek to ask for a bit more money let alone go on strike. 

 

Quite a strong opinion has been displayed. 

 

"Judge not lest ye be judged".

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, kila said:

If more drivers were recruited, that'd reduce the opportunity to earn overtime so could existing drivers potentially end up earning less despite even getting the rise of base salary they want?

 

Of course but not everyone works overtime just now as it is.

you'll always have sickness, holidays and drivers off with other things so overtime is usually ongoing tbh.

[fabienleclerq]

17 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

What difference is it going to make exactly?

 

I work in Scientific research. Am I an overpayed shitebag? Can I have an opinion on strikes that'll likely have an effect on me? Or do you need to be in a specific industry?

 

I would think it's pretty clear, slagging off one set of workers without saying your own set of circumstances so you avoid scrutiny is being a shitebag. 

 

I dunno what's your salary? Because if its over the national average you'll get criticism apparently. And just to be clear they aren't on strike atm. 

[kila]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

Of course but not everyone works overtime just now as it is.

you'll always have sickness, holidays and drivers off with other things so overtime is usually ongoing tbh.

 

I'm just thinking with more drivers and less openings for earning overtime, it might be partly related to the demands for a bigger base salary rise.

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, kila said:

 

I'm just thinking with more drivers and less openings for earning overtime, it might be partly related to the demands for a bigger base salary rise.

Nah I just think the bigger base salary demands is more to do with the fact they’re behind other tocs for doing the same job 

couple that with no rise in 3 years and you have the reason why 

with inflation it’s technically a wage cut over the years for most people out there not just the rail industry.

not our fault we have decent unions and strong memberships that are willing to carry the fight all the way.

other workers outside the railway would prob get their rises etc if they all stuck together but alas that doesn’t tend to happen.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Oh no, some keyboard warriors are unhappy. I'm sure I'll survive. Maybe I work in cancer research and would love to be paid salary of train driver. Maybe I'm sick of the public sector bleating about their jobs and expecting, no demanding, support from the public when they couldn't give a shiny shit about the pain they're going to bring to those same people.

[IronJambo]

23 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Oh no, some keyboard warriors are unhappy. I'm sure I'll survive. Maybe I work in cancer research and would love to be paid salary of train driver. Maybe I'm sick of the public sector bleating about their jobs and expecting, no demanding, support from the public when they couldn't give a shiny shit about the pain they're going to bring to those same people.

You failed the aptitude test for a train driver job 3 times didn't you 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[fabienleclerq]

35 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Oh no, some keyboard warriors are unhappy. I'm sure I'll survive. Maybe I work in cancer research and would love to be paid salary of train driver. Maybe I'm sick of the public sector bleating about their jobs and expecting, no demanding, support from the public when they couldn't give a shiny shit about the pain they're going to bring to those same people.

 

Why. So. Bitter. 

 

You are blaming the wrong people. 

[Cade]

Tell us you wish you had a union without telling us that you wish you had a union

 

[Norm]

19 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Read what you wrote yourself mate, not enough drivers blah de blah no one to cover Sundays etc etc, but they want a pay rise for running reduced services? Away and take a running jump, I'm one of the so called key workers who kept food in your supermarkets during the pandemic, we worked without complaint although we were more liable to catch covid and for what? 2% of a wage rise. Why do you arseholes think you deserve more than me as a wage rise?

 

PS, Im actually livid Ironjambo, best not to answer me just now.

USDAW, representing distribution workers, rejected a 4% pay rise from Tesco just last year, to negotiate a better pay offer which they then received. 

 

Unions are the working man's friend, not your enemy. Your anger shouldn't be at those who have the power to get what they deserve from their bosses. Your anger should be at your bosses for failing to give you what you deserve. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Norm

[1874robbo]

4 minutes ago, Norm said:

USDAW, representing distribution workers, rejected a 4% pay rise from Tesco just last year, to negotiate a better pay offer which they then received. 

 

Unions are the working man's friend, not your enemy. Your anger shouldn't be at those who have the power to get what they deserve from their bosses. Your anger should be at your bosses for failing to give you what you deserve. 

👏👏👏👏

[IronJambo]

20 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Read what you wrote yourself mate, not enough drivers blah de blah no one to cover Sundays etc etc, but they want a pay rise for running reduced services? Away and take a running jump, I'm one of the so called key workers who kept food in your supermarkets during the pandemic, we worked without complaint although we were more liable to catch covid and for what? 2% of a wage rise. Why do you arseholes think you deserve more than me as a wage rise?

 

PS, Im actually livid Ironjambo, best not to answer me just now.

I just seen this 😂😂😂😂😂

 

Who do you think you are? I didn't tell you that you were only worth 2%. You accepted that because that's what you decided you were worth. It's 2% more than I've been offered at that!

 

Don't be livid at yourself for too long for selling yourself so short, maybe next time you'll be able to stand together with your workmates and demand better.

[PTBCAL]

5 hours ago, IronJambo said:

I've not been on strike for years but yes, I will absolutely stand up for myself when the time comes (I have voted for strike action in a current ballot). I've no shame for that and it's my right to strike if we get the mandate.

 

How people get to work in the event of us striking is none of my business. My only concern will be how many days we need to strike for and how I pay my bills through it.

 

No excuses, no hypocrisy. 

100% behind you 

 

I firmly believe in the good of Unions ( plenty experience of this myself) so good luck to you 👍

[Homme]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Tell us you wish you had a union without telling us that you wish you had a union

 

 

 

RMT ballot closes tomorrow I believe. I think it's a cert that there will be a vote to strike.

 

We in Network Rail were actually told by our PR guy we should have stuck in harder at school and wouldn't be in this position if we had