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jamborich

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Here's my two cents FWIW... what made it difficult for us in the first half was their press. Whenever we had the ball they had 3-4 players swarming around to harry and get the ball back. This leads to panic and poor (hasty) misplaced passes... and Celtic do it very well, they have better players. Inevitably, it leads to them tiring and, in the end, we should have taken something out of the game.

My solution (having achieved nothing in the game) would be to put an extra midfielder in there (McEneff or Beni) and have 2 up front (it worked in the first game of the season when it was 1-1 and we were being over-run)... when they're pressing, it would give our players an extra outlet and deprive them of space IMO. And after 45 minutes - and they're knackered - we can go on to win the game! Simples 🙄

I get fans getting a bit frustrated, it seems to be the script this season when we play celtic - but I wouldn't be too harsh on Robbie, he set the team up to go out and have a go at them... how long have we been shouting for that! I do believe, however, we're getting closer to the OF. We are, at the very least, competing and giving them a bloody nose. If we continue on the path we're on, it'll not be too long until we're taking more points off them.

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Bazzas right boot

Since it's a topic on Bob. 

 

We need to get him and his team on extended contracts.

He Enters his last year after the summer. 

 

We need to keep him at least for a few seasons so we are stabilised near the top of league, can't be having 1 or 2 good seasons then 5 shit ones- again. 

He's proven to be a good and consistent manager with an excellent league record. 

 

Him leaving any time soon  would be the worse thing for the club. 

 

 

 

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On 27/01/2022 at 00:51, jamborich said:

Frustrates the hell out of me thought we handled auchinleck brilliantly a game we should win but potential banana skin, tonight feck me tactics atrocious fail to see how that first half is acceptable 

apart from the fact that Celtic regularly go out and spend upward of £2mil on a player,  we dont spend a 10th of that...  does that make you think they are buying better players perhaps  ?

 

Players that are technically better than ours ?

 

Players that can press and not be over run ? 

 

Tactics dont work every single time.

 

We are not on a level playing field, so RN does what he can with the tools at his disposal.

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Guest ToqueJambo
5 hours ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

In my original post I quite literally stated that both the old firm teams are clearly better and recognised celtic’s speed and creativity, so I’m not forgetting anything. 
 

I also understand why the game played out the way it did and that is because we allowed celtic to dominate us and get a 2 goal lead, essentially killing the game. They may be a better team but they’re hardly bayern munich. Regardless, the better team doesn’t always win - if that was the case the bookies would be bankrupt - and I certainly hope that is not the attitude of the players and coaching staff. 
 

Anger and frustration are completely justified emotions after watching us play the exact same way that has failed us time and time again against these better teams. When will we learn? 
 

I agree the game was fine margins, which only amplifies the frustration. Exactly, we’ve already beaten them this season and also surrendered a 2-0 lead to them in the cup game. It appears as if we learned nothing from those matches. 
 

As I mentioned our issue is clearly a psychological one. The talk off the field does not match the tactics and application on it (not for the first half of most games anyway). Accepting that they are a better team and therefore are somehow more entitled to win these games is not the way to go about breaking the mental block. It’s 11 v 11 and we need to remember that. 

 

Our issue is not clearly a psychological one. It is very clearly a "Celtic spend 20m a season more than us one". They have good players and will always have 30min spells (at least) in games when they are very on top. However in games this season we've had spells like that when we've been very on top, which is very encouraging. Put it this way we've given them very hard games over 90 mins. You can't split games into neat chunks of time and say if we'd played the same way in the first 30 mins of the first half as in the first 30 mins of the second half we'd have won. Players tire and teams come back into it.

 

Despite that we've beaten them this season and should have had a draw on Wed. We've competed well across 90 mins with Celtic this whole season (and Rangers for that matter). Even in the league cup game we scored twice - still the only team aside from Bayern Leverkausen to score more than 1 goal at Parkhead that this season I think.

 

We're not going to transform overnight into a team that regularly beats the OF. We do have a good squad and manager. If we had significantly better ones they'd more than likely be at Parhhead right now or we'd never had have a chance of signing them, or they would be targeted by them pretty quickly, which the likes of Beni still might be. That's the reality of it and "mentality" isn't going to change that.

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Bazzas right boot

The ironic thing is the nutters who think we should be beating celtic, competing with them and not rolling over ( not that we did, beat 2-1 and missed a pk is about as close to a result you can get without actually getting one) are the exact same folk that expect us to batter teams like Motherwell, Ross County home and away as we have more money and should beat shite like them. 

The irony of that thinking is lost on them, completely. 

 

The press from the start thing is hilarious as well, do they ever think about the other team pressing. 🤷‍♂️

What if both teams press? 🙄

 

 

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Guest ToqueJambo
10 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

The ironic thing is the nutters who think we should be beating celtic, competing with them and not rolling over ( not that we did, beat 2-1 and missed a pk is about as close to a result you can get without actually getting one) are the exact same folk that expect us to batter teams like Motherwell, Ross County home and away as we have more money and should beat shite like them. 

The irony of that thinking is lost on them, completely. 

 

The press from the start thing is hilarious as well, do they ever think about the other team pressing. 🤷‍♂️

What if both teams press? 🙄

 

 

 

Another ironic thing is the Hearts manager most derided for his negative approach and supposed "mentality" vs the OF is the one who delivered the biggest defeat of Celtic most of us have ever seen or will see. Was that mentality or just things clicked into place on the day, we took every chance, etc, etc? That's how games are won.

 

We beat the OF by taking our chances and defending well, getting our fair share of ref decisions and often needing Celtic and Rangers to be off their game. Boyce's penalty goes in and we could even have gone on to win that game - we were on top and had them rattled. The encouraging thing this season is I've come away from very defeat off the OF feeling we could easily have won, apart from the LC game.

Edited by ToqueJambo
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On 27/01/2022 at 11:55, Bazzas right boot said:

Folk are daft. 

 

Celtic have better players in most positions, they enforced their game on us and we struggled first half. 

 

2nd half, as expected they tired and we should have equalised. 

 

Folk asking why we can't play like the 2nd half in the first half, well the answer is the same reason celtic didn't play the same in the second half as the first. 

There are two teams, which far too many seem to ignore. 

They over powered us with their speed, awareness and quality. It's that simple. 


Finally, someone who gets it.

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, gorgieheart said:

apart from the fact that Celtic regularly go out and spend upward of £2mil on a player,  we dont spend a 10th of that...  does that make you think they are buying better players perhaps  ?

 

Players that are technically better than ours ?

 

Players that can press and not be over run ? 

 

Tactics dont work every single time.

 

We are not on a level playing field, so RN does what he can with the tools at his disposal.

 

 

Even when the playing field was more level, we only beat the OF twice in 2005/06.  We're already halfway there this season. More would of course be nice but let's get real and reserve the stick for when we truly get gubbed by them, which to be fair to Neilson hasn't happened often with him despite seemingly drawing Celtic in every cup. One really bad defeat 3,4,5-0?) vs them under Neilson is it?

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Regarding the Press from opposing teams we just can’t handle it. I’ve this before but we don’t seemed to have progressed. 

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22 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Even when the playing field was more level, we only beat the OF twice in 2005/06.  We're already halfway there this season. More would of course be nice but let's get real and reserve the stick for when we truly get gubbed by them, which to be fair to Neilson hasn't happened often with him despite seemingly drawing Celtic in every cup. One really bad defeat 3,4,5-0?) vs them under Neilson is it?

Not sure its ever been level, we had a time when Mad Vlad was here, but we all know how that one ended.

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Just now, Boy Daniel said:

Regarding the Press from opposing teams we just can’t handle it. I’ve this before but we don’t seemed to have progressed. 

Free transfers and guys we paid 200k for against ?

 

Finances impact what we can offer on the field umfortuantely

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51 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

The ironic thing is the nutters who think we should be beating celtic, competing with them and not rolling over ( not that we did, beat 2-1 and missed a pk is about as close to a result you can get without actually getting one) are the exact same folk that expect us to batter teams like Motherwell, Ross County home and away as we have more money and should beat shite like them. 

The irony of that thinking is lost on them, completely. 

 

The press from the start thing is hilarious as well, do they ever think about the other team pressing. 🤷‍♂️

What if both teams press? 🙄

 

 

 

You get a car crash of a thread.

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3 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

You get a car crash of a thread.

totally !

:greggy:

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1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

The ironic thing is the nutters who think we should be beating celtic, competing with them and not rolling over ( not that we did, beat 2-1 and missed a pk is about as close to a result you can get without actually getting one) are the exact same folk that expect us to batter teams like Motherwell, Ross County home and away as we have more money and should beat shite like them. 

The irony of that thinking is lost on them, completely. 

 

The press from the start thing is hilarious as well, do they ever think about the other team pressing. 🤷‍♂️

What if both teams press? 🙄

 

 

It’s always been the way in football though?   It may seem fickle but it’s just the nature and it’ll always be the same.  Like anyone that’s played, even if you know the other team is stronger you carry a belief you can still find a way to win. It’s a great trait to have. 
 

Naturally, we’ll expect to beat the lesser teams but I’m sure Motherwell will think they can come to Tynie tomorrow and nick a win. Should they think that or just concede in their thinking right now because we’ve got better resources?

 

And nutters?  Calm yerself. . 

Edited by Debut 4
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6 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s always been the way in football though?   It may seem fickle but it’s just the nature and it’ll always be the same.  Like anyone that’s played, even if you know the other team is stronger you carry a belief you can still find a way to win. It’s a great trait to have. 
 

Naturally, we’ll expect to beat the lesser teams but I’m sure Motherwell will think they can come to Tynie tomorrow and nick a win. Should they think that or just concede in their thinking right now because we’ve got better resources?

 

And nutters?  Calm yerself. . 

but it's about being pragmatic and realistic.

 

basically, when you're paying millions more for a player, what you're buying is the consistency and higher probability that a player will shoot, pass, tackle or move more accurately, more often. You're getting a player who can do that stuff 19 times out of 20 (celtic)

 

pay less money and you have players who do it 14, 15 times out of 20 (us).

 

what we have to do to beat celtic is hope the probabilities fall in our favour in key game moments. They did for Boyce's goal....but not for the pen. The odds are stacked against us, hence the regular defeats, but once in a while we win.

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Bazzas right boot
9 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s always been the way in football though?   It may seem fickle but it’s just the nature and it’ll always be the same.  Like anyone that’s played, even if you know the other team is stronger you carry a belief you can still find a way to win. It’s a great trait to have. 
 

Naturally, we’ll expect to beat the lesser teams but I’m sure Motherwell will think they can come to Tynie tomorrow and nick a win. Should they think that or just concede in their thinking right now because we’ve got better resources?

 

And nutters?  Calm yerself. . 

 

 

It's not fickle, it's daft and if you acknowledge that exists, then you can then be more balanced in one's appraisal of a match. 

 

Ofc they should think that, but if they don't win they shouldn't cry about and talk nonsense about how if they pressed us, different mindset etc it would have been different and start slavering about thier manager. 

That's nuts. 

 

 

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Robbies a gid coach and he's building a class side. It's always going to be hard to break the OF dominance but I feel Robbie can push us very close in the next few years. Wednesday night was a disappointment 1st half bit we've competed against them in every game this season, we're not far away. 

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29 minutes ago, gorgieheart said:

Free transfers and guys we paid 200k for against ?

 

Finances impact what we can offer on the field unfortunately

I suspect those days are changing, it looks like we are moving up a level as far as player recruitment goes. The standard of player, their parent or previous club. How that player is viewed by their peers , how they fit with our plans. That is crucial when paying higher sums, we will upgrade that level again in the summer pre season. That seems to be the way it is going, players coming in who are a higher level of talent with the salary to match.

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Bazzas right boot

The reality is if celtic and rangers don't beat us comfortably, never mind beat us they should be disappointed. 

 

We've beaten Celtic and drew at rangers, Celtic beaten us by 1 goal in the other games and rangers 2-0.

 

Rangers have just stolen our best defender for peanuts (or nothing) and got a £19m pound player on loan and sold a guy that played a handful of games for over £10m

 

These arseholes should be hammering us, thankfully football isn't played on a spreadsheet and although we have built a good team and can compete with them the magnitude of the financal gulf will  dictate results over a season. 

 

Tactics or atttitde can only do so much. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

The reality is if celtic and rangers don't beat us comfortably, never mind beat us they should be disappointed. 

 

We've beaten Celtuc and drew at rangers, Celtic beaten us by 1 goal in the other games and rangers 2-0.

 

Rangers have just stolen our best defender for peanuts (or nothing) and got a £19m pound player on loan and sold a guy that played a handfu5of games for over £10m

 

These arseholes should be hammering us, thankfully football isn't played on a spreadsheet and although we have built a good team and can compete with them the magnitude of the financal gulf will  dictate results over a season. 

 

 

They do enough every year and have done for the past 35 years to make sure the league title stays in Glasgow and unfortunately that’s all that really matters, that will never change either and that’s just the harsh reality of Scottish football.

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2 minutes ago, Thumperbeni said:

They do enough every year and have done for the past 35 years to make sure the league title stays in Glasgow and unfortunately that’s all that really matters, that will never change either and that’s just the harsh reality of Scottish football.

Football history shows that Heart Of Midlothian have led the way, The Blue ones have always been that ruling elite. They have influence going all the way back to the dawn of football in Scotland. We have led the way during that history, we will again. there has and always will be a new era, i believe in my depth we are all witnessing the rise of our club. It is the new dawn we have been dreaming of. Nearly every aspect of the football club has been dismantled rebuilt over the last couple of seasons, including the business side with the money spent on upgrading the stadium and park. Right now we are in fact making a noise, getting the headlines for the right reasons. All the talk on being defeated in a game that we made mistakes got stung for them, got some breaks with that luck we have missed. Then got slam dunked with that bad luck we know so well, all headlines putting Us at the forefront of the talk.

We are the most progressive side in the league, doing it the correct way with an outright plan. To compete then challenge the Oldies.

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30 minutes ago, Factuer Moi said:

Football history shows that Heart Of Midlothian have led the way, The Blue ones have always been that ruling elite. They have influence going all the way back to the dawn of football in Scotland. We have led the way during that history, we will again. there has and always will be a new era, i believe in my depth we are all witnessing the rise of our club. It is the new dawn we have been dreaming of. Nearly every aspect of the football club has been dismantled rebuilt over the last couple of seasons, including the business side with the money spent on upgrading the stadium and park. Right now we are in fact making a noise, getting the headlines for the right reasons. All the talk on being defeated in a game that we made mistakes got stung for them, got some breaks with that luck we have missed. Then got slam dunked with that bad luck we know so well, all headlines putting Us at the forefront of the talk.

We are the most progressive side in the league, doing it the correct way with an outright plan. To compete then challenge the Oldies.

Take the maroon tinted glasses off ffs, I stopped reading this drivel after a couple of sentences 🤦‍♂️

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3 minutes ago, Thumperbeni said:

Take the maroon tinted glasses off ffs, I stopped reading this drivel after a couple of sentences 🤦‍♂️

You stopped because You know it is true.

Hearts Are Here

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Guest ToqueJambo
1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

 Like anyone that’s played, even if you know the other team is stronger you carry a belief you can still find a way to win. It’s a great trait to have. 

 

Is there any evidence this or any other Hearts team don't have that belief? This team in particular have beaten and competed with the OF very well. As others are pointing out, at some point in every game vs the OF their general better quality of player on the pitch and the bench will emerge. ON a one-off we can and have beat them. Doing it consistently is definitely the next step but it needs a huge number of things to align, such as having enough money to match the wages Rangers offer for a key player like Souttar.

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4 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Makes sense. 

 

Our players weren't at it the first half, basic control, Composure and passing escaped many for a bit. 

 

However, Celtic are a good team, too many on here think press and run about is the tactic that wins every game. 

It doesn't. 

 

Even in the first half, Gordon was relatively Quiet and only well hit shot / mistake   and an offside goal was the difference. 

We weren't ripped to bits or carved open often, if at all. 

 

In the second half Gordon was busier in the first ten minutes than he'd been in the whole first half. 

 

After that we dictated the play. 

 

Folk thinking if we pressed from the start we were quids in are off on one. 

 

 

 

In general I am very much on your side of the debate—when you play a team with much greater resources such as us vs. the OF, if you want to try to win, you pick a gambit and hope it pays off. If it doesn't, you get spit roasted.

 

That said, I do think Robbie wanted a Hodgson-style "bars of four" with a high line, and couldn't get his players to move up far enough. I think if we'd managed to get that in a bit earlier, it might have stopped the bleeding.

 

Of course the downside is it risks route one passes over the back line for speedy strikers to run onto but it might have solved our possession issues in the first half a bit more.

 

In the end I think our biggest problems in the first half were that Cochrane was lost at sea, McKay got flustered, Smith was just overpowered athletically (and then Akka understandably wasn't up to game speed), and Haring went missing when we had the ball. When that many parts of your outfield crumple, you're in for a ragdolling.

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10 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

If players are having an off night or misplacing passes is not down to the manager, unless he doesn't try to change things during the game, but as you say, he does make changes when required 

Yes agree not always the manager the players need to perform. Just didn’t like the way we setup

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Well played today any fan would take 3 points no matter who we play just hope we can take it on to Hibs but even more so against rangers and not bottle it, we have the team to beat both let’s take them this shite about more money and better players isn’t a factor if we believe 

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On 28/01/2022 at 13:50, Rogue Daddy said:

Here's my two cents FWIW... what made it difficult for us in the first half was their press. Whenever we had the ball they had 3-4 players swarming around to harry and get the ball back. This leads to panic and poor (hasty) misplaced passes... and Celtic do it very well, they have better players. Inevitably, it leads to them tiring and, in the end, we should have taken something out of the game.

My solution (having achieved nothing in the game) would be to put an extra midfielder in there (McEneff or Beni) and have 2 up front (it worked in the first game of the season when it was 1-1 and we were being over-run)... when they're pressing, it would give our players an extra outlet and deprive them of space IMO. And after 45 minutes - and they're knackered - we can go on to win the game! Simples 🙄

I get fans getting a bit frustrated, it seems to be the script this season when we play celtic - but I wouldn't be too harsh on Robbie, he set the team up to go out and have a go at them... how long have we been shouting for that! I do believe, however, we're getting closer to the OF. We are, at the very least, competing and giving them a bloody nose. If we continue on the path we're on, it'll not be too long until we're taking more points off them.

Strangely enough the player said the very same today in the gorgie 👍🏻

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34 minutes ago, tynietigers said:

Strangely enough the player said the very same today in the gorgie 👍🏻

 

34 minutes ago, tynietigers said:

Strangely enough the player said the very same today in the gorgie 👍🏻

 

On 28/01/2022 at 17:36, ToqueJambo said:

 

Is there any evidence this or any other Hearts team don't have that belief? This team in particular have beaten and competed with the OF very well. As others are pointing out, at some point in every game vs the OF their general better quality of player on the pitch and the bench will emerge. ON a one-off we can and have beat them. Doing it consistently is definitely the next step but it needs a huge number of things to align, such as having enough money to match the wages Rangers offer for a key player like Souttar.

This is one of the best teams to take on the old firm sadly the management worries about them rather than focus on us

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4 hours ago, jamborich said:

Well played today any fan would take 3 points no matter who we play just hope we can take it on to Hibs but even more so against rangers and not bottle it, we have the team to beat both let’s take them this shite about more money and better players isn’t a factor if we believe 

Them having more money & better players absolutely is the driving factor as to why they usually beat everyone 😂

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2 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

Them having more money & better players absolutely is the driving factor as to why they usually beat everyone 😂

I think you might have stumbled on something there. 😄

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hearts 4 the cup
On 28/01/2022 at 13:57, gorgieheart said:

apart from the fact that Celtic regularly go out and spend upward of £2mil on a player,  we dont spend a 10th of that...  does that make you think they are buying better players perhaps  ?

 

Players that are technically better than ours ?

 

Players that can press and not be over run ? 

 

Tactics dont work every single time.

 

We are not on a level playing field, so RN does what he can with the tools at his disposal.

Great post. 
 

We’ve been great this season with the players at our disposal and I genuinely enjoy watching us at the moment. We weren’t great today but always feel like we’ve got goals in us. Neilson has done a great job, at the time I felt the Brora result was a sackable offence but delighted I don’t make they key decisions as would’ve been a terrible move with hindsight 

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8 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

Them having more money & better players absolutely is the driving factor as to why they usually beat everyone 😂

So why play let's just down tools this attitude is what's wrong we play into their hands, did brora worry about our budget when they shafted us

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I took encouragement from todays performance that RN is learning from his mistakes.  Anyone who went to Motherwell away saw us overrun in midfield. Today RN made sure that would happen again and got the result.  

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7 minutes ago, hearts 4 the cup said:

Great post. 
 

We’ve been great this season with the players at our disposal and I genuinely enjoy watching us at the moment. We weren’t great today but always feel like we’ve got goals in us. Neilson has done a great job, at the time I felt the Brora result was a sackable offence but delighted I don’t make they key decisions as would’ve been a terrible move with hindsight 

Doing Savage a disservice 

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hearts 4 the cup
1 minute ago, jamborich said:

Doing Savage a disservice 

Who is?

 

Savage is great, but this thread is about neilson? Do you disagree with what I said?

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2 minutes ago, hearts 4 the cup said:

Who is?

 

Savage is great, but this thread is about neilson? Do you disagree with what I said?

Yes

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2 minutes ago, jamborich said:

So why play let's just down tools this attitude is what's wrong we play into their hands, did brora worry about our budget when they shafted us

So by your logic if we play them again & they believe that they’ll beat us they’ll do it again? Come on, had we actually turned up we’d have comfortably dispatched them because we’re a better side with more money & a better squad. We had an absolute shocker & they punished us.
 

Celtic & Rangers aren’t unbeatable (nobody is) but saying player quality & budget isn’t a factor is delusional.

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He just can’t win. A player made a mistake today and someone near me shouted out “FFS Neilson, that’s shit” as if it was his fault. 

Edited by Tazio
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25 minutes ago, McCrae said:

I took encouragement from todays performance that RN is learning from his mistakes.  Anyone who went to Motherwell away saw us overrun in midfield. Today RN made sure that would happen again and got the result.  

Yep. I was there. We are lucky to have him that’s for sure 

Edited by 1971fozzy
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  • davemclaren changed the title to Neilson ( merged )

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