Neilson ( merged )

[Bing1874]

4 hours ago, jamtartan74 said:

Allow teams like Celtic? U mean one of if not the best team in the country to dominate us? We don’t just turn up and let them dominate ffs, do u really think that or are u just plain stupid? They are a far superior team to us so it’s what they do, then they tire and we get a foothold in the game, even the 1st game of the season which we won they outplayed us for the vast majority of the match but we snuck a late winner, that’s football buddy no point losing your shit over it. 

The only reason the dominated us was because poor tactics..they had a free man in the middle of the park at all times during the first 45..anyone with half a football brain could see it..the question is why does Neilson persistently wait until a game is lost before he recognises that his tactics where so wrong?

[Mr Elwood P]

10 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Felt he got the team right but formation wrong. 343 worked this season and cochrane was lost at left mid. Team were really poor first half and couldn’t string a few passes together which isn’t the managers fault

What formation did we play last night?

[spirt of 98]

3 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

We can discuss the pros and cons of Neilson's tactics all day long, but it can't be denied that all our players in the first half were either average or below average.  We were poor at passing, defending, moving into open spaces, creating shooting opportunities, all basic stuff that the players failed to do.

Can't blame the manager for that. 

To be fair the players looked disinterested at in the first half.

 

There was a bad challenge in the second half and the players got angry. That seamed to spark a reaction. Then the player well.

 

I watched the thing on Netflix about Brian Clough the other night and he made a comment about his player might not be as good as the other team but he expected them to give their all. 
 

Hearts players never gave their all in the first half. Danny Devlin did but the rest did not. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Bing1874 said:

The only reason the dominated us was because poor tactics..they had a free man in the middle of the park at all times during the first 45..anyone with half a football brain could see it..the question is why does Neilson persistently wait until a game is lost before he recognises that his tactics where so wrong?

“play our own game, play our football, why are you playing an extra defender Neilson ffs be more attacking ”

 

”ffs Neilson why’d you no react to what the opposition do and put an extra man in midfield??”

 

Neilson gets slaughtered by half wit fans who don’t have a clue about tactics, no matter what he does 

 

The reality is, we’ve taken 4 points from 4 games against the OF which is probably the best in the league. Not sure how everyone else has done probably 4 Ls out of 4 
 

And with some long spells of our performances it’s deserved to be more. Especially last night. That game 2-2 was the fair result but our penalty taker ****ed us 

[ri Alban]

Next time.

[GinRummy]

10 minutes ago, Bing1874 said:

The only reason the dominated us was because poor tactics..they had a free man in the middle of the park at all times during the first 45..anyone with half a football brain could see it..the question is why does Neilson persistently wait until a game is lost before he recognises that his tactics where so wrong?

I don’t agree. They dominated us at Celtic park in the cup  when we had three centre mids. They looked like they had a free man in every area of the pitch last night because guys like Ginnelly and Cochrane done nothing.  You just can’t have passengers milling around and not getting involved in the game. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by GinRummy

[feej]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

“play our own game, play our football, why are you playing an extra defender Neilson ffs be more attacking ”

 

”ffs Neilson why’d you no react to what the opposition do and put an extra man in midfield??”

 

Neilson gets slaughtered by half wit fans who don’t have a clue about tactics, no matter what he does 

 

The reality is, we’ve taken 4 points from 4 games against the OF which is probably the best in the league. Not sure how everyone else has done probably 4 Ls out of 4 
 

And with some long spells of our performances it’s deserved to be more. Especially last night. That game 2-2 was the fair result but our penalty taker ****ed us 

For me it was a game of two halves, first half we had no-one prepared to put their foot on the ball, look up and make passes, we lacked composure. In the second half when Beni appeared we looked a different side.

 

[kingantti1874]

I think it’s harsh. Celtic are a good side and we got to grips with them when we got our best players on the pitch.  I thought we were by far the better team in the second half. 
 

 We were a cm or 2 away from a point at the very least. 

[sim]

50 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

I realise people come on here to vent and probably wake up the next morning knowing they look like a twat so I’ll give the OP leeway.

 

Neilson isn’t to blame for the first half, the players were.  Too many were off it and when Celtic press in the way they did, our passing and movement needs to be accurate, which it wasn’t. Gordon will be kicking himself for the first goal and the second was also avoidable.  
 

Second half, we were much better and put them on the back foot for long spells.  The penalty goes in and we probably go on to win the match as by that point, they were on their knees.  Beni and Simms changed the game for me and brought control and tempo but still, some of our players were not at full capacity (McKay had an off night but at least didn’t hide).

 

The reaction of the Celtic players and fans at full time tells you how relieved they were as they knew they’d been in a battle.  Neilson on the other hand will be frustrated but taking the positives, we can match anyone, we just need the players to believe it.  We’ve also unearthed another gem in Atkinson who looked very assured.

+1

I agree with this!

 

We actually set up pretty well and I think RN was right to say that the first 10 mins we were at them and did well. But the PLAYERS then stepped back and let Celtic play, which they did at pace.

Looking through the team, there were many that were not playing to the standard we know they can. McKay had one of his worst games for us so far, Cochrane had a mare, Boyce continuously struggled to turn his man, and Gino couldnt get into the game. And Devlin was getting frustrated. These were shortcomings from the players not the manager.

 

The system change and esp change of personnel really helped in the second half. Simms connected more with Midfield than Gino did, Beni steadied the midfield and gave us some control. And these were not realistic starters for obvious reasons. So I dont see what RN could have done differently.

 

While feeling deflated and annoyed we didnt take anything from the game. The bigger picture is that in the majority of games against the OF this season, we have competed. This is a marked improvement in previous years. The challenge is to do this more consistently and get more results from the performances. We are hardly ever going to be on top of a game against them for a full match, but we need to make sure that in the mins that we are not on top that we are solid. So big picture, I'm still positive going forward, even if last night was a bit frustrating. 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by sim

[Newton51]

17 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

What formation did we play last night?

Good point but looked 442. Cochrane was so high up compared to the other side

[GlasgoJambo]

Ignoring all context completely one can only conclude this is the manager’s fault.

[Bainy]

Have to agree with the op. We do this time and again against them. Parkhead the same where we were very lucky not to be about 5 down before suddenly coming out and having a go. I'm not say we play like we do against Auchinleck but if we have any ambitions of moving past the 3rd force in scottish football there comes a time when we need to stop bring scared of the old firm, especially at home. Another jekyll and Hyde performance that left me so frustrated. 

 

Ifs like we need to sit and take a pumping and concede before he goes right this hasn't worked ill change it. 

 

Still very much lacking a creative midfield player that when devlin runs his balls off and gets tackles in can move the ball forward for us. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, feej said:

For me it was a game of two halves, first half we had no-one prepared to put their foot on the ball, look up and make passes, we lacked composure. In the second half when Beni appeared we looked a different side.

 

We could have put 5 in midfield and probably still would have conceded first half with Devlin playing like that. Fact is he had a stinker. Not sure why, I reckon it’s, he might be feeling the heat of competition for his place with Beni back fit and Haring playing well. A bit of nerves.

I reckon Neilson will go back to Beni - Devlin for the next game, but the heat is definitely on Devlin now from Haring. It’s 1 of them 2 to play alongside Beni who is first name on the team sheet 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Top man, good manager, hope he rustles jimmies for the foreseeable

I agree.

In fact I would go further than that and say he’s a tactical genius.

Definitely Premier League standard.

[OTT]

It is really frustrating. Wrong calls on formation and tactics. He needs to focus on what we’re good at. Setting up to contain Celtic doesn’t work and will never work. 
 

Press them and they’ll make mistakes. If we lose, we lose. I’d rather go down swinging. 

[feej]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

We could have put 5 in midfield and probably still would have conceded first half with Devlin playing like that. Fact is he had a stinker. Not sure why, I reckon it’s, he might be feeling the heat of competition for his place with Beni back fit and Haring playing well. A bit of nerves.

I reckon Neilson will go back to Beni - Devlin for the next game, but the heat is definitely on Devlin now from Haring. It’s 1 of them 2 to play alongside Beni who is first name on the team sheet 

It's one for Robbie to work out, I prefer beni-haring combination but we'll have to wait and see what happens this weekend. 

I still think we're short of a couple of bodies, I would like another centre half and not convinced by Cochrane.

[GlasgoJambo]

Just now, OTT said:

It is really frustrating. Wrong calls on formation and tactics. He needs to focus on what we’re good at. Setting up to contain Celtic doesn’t work and will never work. 
 

Press them and they’ll make mistakes. If we lose, we lose. I’d rather go down swinging. 

 

[Dazo]

25 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t agree. They dominated us at Celtic park in the cup  when we had three centre mids. They looked like they had a free man in every area of the pitch last night because guys like Ginnelly and Cochrane done nothing.  You just can’t have passengers milling around and not getting involved in the game. 

Agree with this. Not saying the tactics were spot on but you’ll never know when you have so many passengers. Most if not all the players were poor for a lot of the match. 

[Steve]

Not in any way supporting the tactics of the first half, but I think he in his eyes he tried to go for it against rangers and we lost two goals and ended up chasing the game, although ironically that’s what ended up happening last night anyway! 😂

 

 

[soonbe110]

58 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Thought he would have learned after the Rangers game that a 2 man doesn't work early on against quality.

Should have went with Beni I'm there instead of Gino at the start. 

 

👍Started with Beni for Ginelly and it might have been a different first half.  Celtics press, movement and passing were outstanding to be fair though 

[briever]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

“play our own game, play our football, why are you playing an extra defender Neilson ffs be more attacking ”

 

”ffs Neilson why’d you no react to what the opposition do and put an extra man in midfield??”

 

Neilson gets slaughtered by half wit fans who don’t have a clue about tactics, no matter what he does 

 

The reality is, we’ve taken 4 points from 4 games against the OF which is probably the best in the league. Not sure how everyone else has done probably 4 Ls out of 4 
 

And with some long spells of our performances it’s deserved to be more. Especially last night. That game 2-2 was the fair result but our penalty taker ****ed us 

 

You think 2-2 would have been a fair result?  

[briever]

47 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

We could have put 5 in midfield and probably still would have conceded first half with Devlin playing like that. Fact is he had a stinker. Not sure why, I reckon it’s, he might be feeling the heat of competition for his place with Beni back fit and Haring playing well. A bit of nerves.

I reckon Neilson will go back to Beni - Devlin for the next game, but the heat is definitely on Devlin now from Haring. It’s 1 of them 2 to play alongside Beni who is first name on the team sheet 

 

Devlin needs dropped, he's nowhere near as good as people seem to think he is.  Runs about a lot and achieves very little - especially going forward.  Handy guy for the bench which is where he should be for the foreseeable.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, briever said:

 

You think 2-2 would have been a fair result?  

Absolutely yes. They deserved to be 2-0 up at half time, where our fight back and dominance of the second half deserved a point. Thanks to a penalty miss we never got it

[hmfc_liam06]

I'd encourage some folk to maybe spend a wee bit of time watching the dugout next time. That first half was on the players.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, briever said:

 

Devlin needs dropped, he's nowhere near as good as people seem to think he is.  Runs about a lot and achieves very little - especially going forward.  Handy guy for the bench which is where he should be for the foreseeable.

Looks like the fuds in our support have found their next target now that gnanduillet is away 

[hmfc_liam06]

35 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

👍Started with Beni for Ginelly and it might have been a different first half.  Celtics press, movement and passing were outstanding to be fair though 

 

Beni was blowing out his hoop towards the end, evidently short on match fitness. No way he would have managed to start.

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Looks like the fuds in our support have found their next target now that gnanduillet is away 

 

It's absolutely mental.

 

He had a poor game last night, and if I'm being critical that's a couple big games where he's been out of sorts. But it's like folk instantly forget the previous raft of good games he's had.

 

I think we're all aware of his limitations but he's a cracking wee player when he plays his role - ball winner, short simple passes to more effective players. Maybe with him being beside Haring he's had to take on the more advanced Beni role?

[briever]

6 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Absolutely yes. They deserved to be 2-0 up at half time, where our fight back and dominance of the second half deserved a point. Thanks to a penalty miss we never got it

 

We never got close to dominating them.

Edited January 27, 2022 by briever

[briever]

5 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Looks like the fuds in our support have found their next target now that gnanduillet is away 

 

You should maybe concentrate of what he does rather than thinking a cheeky smile and running about really fast is enough for the SPL.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, briever said:

 

We never go close to dominating them.

😂 the first time they were out their half for the last 30 minutes of that game was when they played it up to the corner flag for time wasting in added time 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, briever said:

 

You should maybe concentrate of what he does rather than thinking a cheeky smile and running about really fast is enough for the SPL.

Take a look at the league table and have a word with yourself mate.

 

You are judging players, wrongly, when they’re up against the best quality operators in the division. 

 

He has been a main stay. Played just about every minute since he has joined and we have a commanding points advantage over our main rivals. With teams repeatedly folding in the second half against us 

[Rudy T]

7 hours ago, Paris 84 said:

 

Was there one Hearts fan who went to that game tonight and thought “we really need to sit off them and surrender the whole of their half to them, before we even try to shut them down”.  Or did EVERY Hearts fan think, they’ve got half a team of their first picks out, let’s get intae these ***** and put them under pressure? Since Neilson’s came back we’ve played Celtic five times. Giving him the benefit of the doubt (although I’ve no idea why), we’ve been absolutely ****in horrific in four of those five first halves. It’s not fighting spirit to come back into a game when you’re beat if you do it regularly, it’s cowardice not to fight until the game’s out of reach FFS! 

 

Now before anyone accuses me of wanting him to be sacked, I don’t. However, as it stands it’s obvious he will be sacked from this role (at some point), not for being a shite manager, or that the team aren’t coached properly; no, it’ll be because he can’t help but set us up like a team frightened of their opposition. 

Me that’s exactly how I thought we should’ve played them. Let them have the ball in their half in the first half to draw them out then engage in our own half and use Gino and McKays pace to get in behind, 2nd do exactly what we did and press them high.

 

Those are the tactics to beat Celtic as they start fast but seem to tire badly after 60 minutes and sit on the game. 
 

The problem last night wasn’t the tactics it was the players weren’t doing their jobs, how many times in the first half was Harring almost playing sweeper, Devlin running about aimlessly at times, Cochranes distribution was rank rotten at times, Smith was no match for Jota but Gino wasn’t helping him out all over the pitch we were off it.

 

Then look at their goals, Gordon should do better with the first and the 2nd is offside however that Hatate had the run of the pitch again Devlin out of the shape.

 

Neilson identifies the problems and changes it, we get fresh legs on and go at them.

 

We have players who are good against most of the teams we play but when it comes to Celtic and Rangers they’re a level short. Gino is one, Cochrane is another but he’s got the potential to get better, Smith doesn’t have the pace now and Devlin needs to be more disciplined when we need him just to hold the midfield for a period of the game.

 

We’re not far away from Celtic but the players have to learn to play in a controlled way from the start of the game.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

7 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

It's absolutely mental.

 

He had a poor game last night, and if I'm being critical that's a couple big games where he's been out of sorts. But it's like folk instantly forget the previous raft of good games he's had.

 

I think we're all aware of his limitations but he's a cracking wee player when he plays his role - ball winner, short simple passes to more effective players. Maybe with him being beside Haring he's had to take on the more advanced Beni role?

I thought they would stick to Halliday and GMS but suddenly Halliday puts in a good cross against Talbot and it’s a 3 year deal for him, where Devlin has a bad game against Celtic and it’s time to launch him. 
 

Bet you Beni will have a bad game in the next few games while he’s not fully fit and he’ll be next 

[Dia Liom]

52 minutes ago, OTT said:

It is really frustrating. Wrong calls on formation and tactics. He needs to focus on what we’re good at. Setting up to contain Celtic doesn’t work and will never work. 
 

Press them and they’ll make mistakes. If we lose, we lose. I’d rather go down swinging. 

 

It's already worked this season 

[vegas-voss]

19 minutes ago, briever said:

 

You think 2-2 would have been a fair result?  

On the reflection of the whole game it definitely would have been

[NB GIN]

I said last night we will get hammered first half he will change it and we will play well. 
He seems to be very good at resolving what isn’t working but never gets it right against the Glasgow 2.Stick with the formation and stop changing 🤡

[Dia Liom]

In the end we were unlucky to lose to a much better team.  Our team deserve credit for that.  Robbie has us really well set up against better teams - at least I always feel we have a chance, which has not been the case over the years.  Anyway, once his shocking lack of tactical nous takes effect and we slip down the table and start losing every week, then at least the experts will have a leg to stand on.  

[Bazzas right boot]

21 minutes ago, briever said:

 

We never got close to dominating them.

 

All over them last 30 minutes. 

 

Their players timewasting and falling about with cramp. 

 

Unfortunately, a pk was the difference against them, again

 

[Bazzas right boot]

28 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

I'd encourage some folk to maybe spend a wee bit of time watching the dugout next time. That first half was on the players.

 

 

Celtic are a good team as well. 

Folk forget that. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Agree with this. Not saying the tactics were spot on but you’ll never know when you have so many passengers. Most if not all the players were poor for a lot of the match. 

Think it was largely a case of the young boys, Devlin, Cochrane, Ginelly getting caught in the headlights first half. All three had their worst 45 mins of the season. Three men down against any team is tough. 

[soonbe110]

7 hours ago, Paris 84 said:

 

Was there one Hearts fan who went to that game tonight and thought “we really need to sit off them and surrender the whole of their half to them, before we even try to shut them down”.  Or did EVERY Hearts fan think, they’ve got half a team of their first picks out, let’s get intae these ***** and put them under pressure? Since Neilson’s came back we’ve played Celtic five times. Giving him the benefit of the doubt (although I’ve no idea why), we’ve been absolutely ****in horrific in four of those five first halves. It’s not fighting spirit to come back into a game when you’re beat if you do it regularly, it’s cowardice not to fight until the game’s out of reach FFS! 

 

Now before anyone accuses me of wanting him to be sacked, I don’t. However, as it stands it’s obvious he will be sacked from this role (at some point), not for being a shite manager, or that the team aren’t coached properly; no, it’ll be because he can’t help but set us up like a team frightened of their opposition. 

We started on the front foot and were  going after them!!! Unfortunately we had three or four players who were not at the races last night and as a result misplaced passes, poor positional play and missed tackles gave Celtic all the possession and space they needed to take control.  Second half Neilson sorted it, removed the guys that were struggling and we had much the better of the second half. Had Beni started instead of Devlin probably would have been a different game. 

[davie1980]

8 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

Aye, we beat a tier 7 part-time team 5-0, so we should've done the same against the team second in our division that has about 10x our budget and wage bill.

 

Booooo Nheilshon OUt bhooooo 

 

My thoughts exactly

[1971fozzy]

36 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Looks like the fuds in our support have found their next target now that gnanduillet is away 

yep, it’s embarrassing.  Halliday is the go to for them but now looks like it’s Cammys turn. Probably be Gordon next if he lets in another goal. They need to have someone to let their ‘whatever it’s called’ out on.

[davie1980]

Does anyone think Celtic "sat off us and let us play" second half?

 

Or do they credit our team with playing well and taking advantage of Celtic tiring (a trend that has been obvious each time we've played them)

[Boyces beard]

1st half last night was on the players, they did not work as a team when pressing. This allowed Celtic to play through us with relative ease. Robbie deserves credit for changing things up at half time and having us press more as a unit. The new lad Simms made a difference playing along side Boyce, it gave them less time on the ball forcing them to go more direct.

 

 

[adso7]

2 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Celtic are a good team as well. 

Folk forget that. 

Agree, first half they looked turbo charged. You could see some of our players were really struggling to keep up and getting dragged all over the place. They were on their game, beating any press with a first time pass or a round the corner flick. In contrast nothing was coming off for us, possibly as the players were working their hardest trying to keep up with them.

 

Second half was a marked contrast. For me, you could see their players now running out of gas, struggling to break the press. As a result we get our tails up, start getting our passes away and the game changes.

 

If (big if I know) the penalty goes in, I think we win the game but of course we didn't. I was as disappointed as anyone at half time but you need to take into account the performance of the opposition sometimes. Celtic were good in the first half. Second half I was disappointed with the result but pleased that we made a game of it. I've been to countless games v the old firm where we've failed to do that.

[benny]

2 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Players where to blame for tonight. Could not pass five yards some points

This.Nothing to do with tactics.The passing was terrible until the last half hour.

[thewiseone]

7 hours ago, Paris 84 said:

 

Was there one Hearts fan who went to that game tonight and thought “we really need to sit off them and surrender the whole of their half to them, before we even try to shut them down”.  Or did EVERY Hearts fan think, they’ve got half a team of their first picks out, let’s get intae these ***** and put them under pressure? Since Neilson’s came back we’ve played Celtic five times. Giving him the benefit of the doubt (although I’ve no idea why), we’ve been absolutely ****in horrific in four of those five first halves. It’s not fighting spirit to come back into a game when you’re beat if you do it regularly, it’s cowardice not to fight until the game’s out of reach FFS! 

 

Now before anyone accuses me of wanting him to be sacked, I don’t. However, as it stands it’s obvious he will be sacked from this role (at some point), not for being a shite manager, or that the team aren’t coached properly; no, it’ll be because he can’t help but set us up like a team frightened of their opposition. 

Hammer, nail, head! 

[Hearts1975]

2 hours ago, Bing1874 said:

The only reason the dominated us was because poor tactics..they had a free man in the middle of the park at all times during the first 45..anyone with half a football brain could see it..the question is why does Neilson persistently wait until a game is lost before he recognises that his tactics where so wrong?

The reason they had a free man in the middle was because Devlin was running all over the place and as a result, getting caught out of position, time and time again, and as a result, leaving Haring exposed. That was the issue. 
I really like Devlin but that’s the first time I have questioned his positional awareness. 
No co incidence that when we replaced him with Beni we started to get on the ball and make things happen. 

 

[Jamhammer]

3 hours ago, Squirt said:

Incredible that so many people can watch a game of football and not notice that there’s two teams playing as opposed to one.

 

Celtic players don’t panic as much us ours under pressure, they don’t make as many silly mistakes, take as many heavy touches, play as many passes 2 yards to far in front of their man. They’re a better team.

 

First 5 minutes before Celtic settled we were trying to play our game. They didn’t let us. Piled on the pressure, we got scared, players went into themselves and lost a goal to a great strike. Cue even more pressure, even more fear, more sitting back and trying to soak up the pressure for as long as possible. Lose another. Got a goal back and momentum completely changes, they start to worry, they start to tire. That game last night was a game of fine margins, which considering the number of times I’ve gone to Tynecastle and seen as be turned over 3-0/4-0 in the last few years that tells me we’re moving in the right direction, on a comparatively small budget.

 

Subs changed the game as well.

 

It’s never the players when it goes wrong, but never Robbie when it goes right for some people. 
 

All in all, meh. 

I’m not a Robbie fan but you’ve pretty much nailed it.

The players are mentally weak when it comes to the OF. They don’t BELIEVE, especially when the opposition are on it, like Celtic were first half.

Does a better manager instil that belief? Maybe but I think pretty much everyone was happy with the team selection pre kick off 

My gripe is, usually he leaves it too long to change things.

Devlin should have been replaced earlier and I always think we defend too deep/lose midfield to them.

What frustrates most of us is we are capable of performing like we did second half but, also like we did in the first.
 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jamhammer