Neilson ( merged )

[Hearts1975]

36 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

yep, it’s embarrassing.  Halliday is the go to for them but now looks like it’s Cammys turn. Probably be Gordon next if he lets in another goal. They need to have someone to let their ‘whatever it’s called’ out on.

Cammy’s been brilliant for us and his attitude/desire to win is unquestionable 

Making him a target is just mental. 2 weeks ago he was a superstar 

All that said, I reckon that was probably his poorest performance so far in a maroon shirt 

For nothing else, other than him getting dragged out of position constantly 1st half.
I honestly think that’s the gap that they exploited in the middle, and one of the main reasons that we just couldn’t get out 

Devlin will learn from it though. 

[BerraBelieveit]

We can acknowledge Neilson is doing a remarkable job and I absolutely love that he is our manager but we are allowed to give some criticism. 

 

We let them have the ball, in the final third you could see they have quality and are very good but we constantly stood off as they passed the ball about at the back. Neilson has told them to stand off so they cannot play through us but you could see they could through constantly. 

 

When you watch Hearts shape, I've never seen Alex Cochrane playing directly in front of Kingsley. That was a tweak that never worked at all. 

 

Second half much better as we got higher up the park. 

 

Before the game, I expected to impose our game plan on them and use the crowd with a high press but we worried too much about Celtic and not about ourselves which for me is the one weakness of our management team. 

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Cammy’s been brilliant for us and his attitude/desire to win is unquestionable 

Making him a target is just mental. 2 weeks ago he was a superstar 

All that said, I reckon that was probably his poorest performance so far in a maroon shirt 

For nothing else, other than him getting dragged out of position constantly 1st half.
I honestly think that’s the gap that they exploited in the middle, and one of the main reasons that we just couldn’t get out 

Devlin will learn from it though. 

He has been a breath of fresh air. However last night he was poor. Bigger issue though is his anger management capability. He is always just waiting to explode.  Could easily have had two yellows in the one incident last night. Gets away with it most games but not in the big games. 

[Hearts1975]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He has been a breath of fresh air. However last night he was poor. Bigger issue though is his anger management capability. He is always just waiting to explode.  Could easily have had two yellows in the one incident last night. Gets away with it most games but not in the big games. 

I think he is one of these players that has it in his make up. Not necessarily sure he will be able to shift it. He has alluded to it himself

the worry is that referees will start to earmark him for special treatment.
That’s all we need as we hardly get any leeway from them as it is 

Thing is he was fouled when he was booked with their player. If it wasn’t for Ginnelly literally manhandling him and pulling him out the way he could have ended up being sent off, and that all started with him being fouled 

[Hearts1975]

15 minutes ago, BerraBelieveit said:

We can acknowledge Neilson is doing a remarkable job and I absolutely love that he is our manager but we are allowed to give some criticism. 

 

We let them have the ball, in the final third you could see they have quality and are very good but we constantly stood off as they passed the ball about at the back. Neilson has told them to stand off so they cannot play through us but you could see they could through constantly. 

 

When you watch Hearts shape, I've never seen Alex Cochrane playing directly in front of Kingsley. That was a tweak that never worked at all. 

 

Second half much better as we got higher up the park. 

 

Before the game, I expected to impose our game plan on them and use the crowd with a high press but we worried too much about Celtic and not about ourselves which for me is the one weakness of our management team. 

I don’t necessarily think this the the case tbh. In the 1st half I saw Neilson a good few times, waving players desperately up the park. I play footie, all be it at a very low level, but even when we play teams better than us, there is a tendency to fall back and try and hang on 

I know the level of football that I am talking about can’t even be compared, but I wonder if it’s the players that sometimes do it without thinking or being instructed to do it 

 

[henry]

We had a wee break in play last night in the first half and there was an opportunity to get the message on the park to press higher. Neilson sat in the dug out. The biggest issue for me was Ginnelly & Mackay both caught in no man’s land of not pressing and not getting in areas to stop celtic moving up the park. Neilson claims to have changed a few things at halftime but in reality nothing changed until we scored. It’s like the players got a lift off the crowd & we started to chase everything. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk are daft. 

 

Celtic have better players in most positions, they enforced their game on us and we struggled first half. 

 

2nd half, as expected they tired and we should have equalised. 

 

Folk asking why we can't play like the 2nd half in the first half, well the answer is the same reason celtic didn't play the same in the second half as the first. 

There are two teams, which far too many seem to ignore. 

They over powered us with their speed, awareness and quality. It's that simple. 

 

The only thing Robbie got wrong imo  was starting Gino, but after his brace last game I understand why he went with him. 

I'd have played McEneff. 

 

Devlin who I think is decent isn't as good as Beni or Haring in possession and needs to learn to calm down a bit. He was poor. 

 

Gordon also at fault for first goal,, seemed like he tried to push it away and it went through him, caught out by the pace a bit. 

 

At 2-1,the penalty miss is clearly crucial. 

Real shame. 

 

 

Like a few have said tho, I don't have the fear v the OF, I always think we are in the game which is a good feeling to have. You even felt that the celtic fans were still nervous at 2-0.

 

Previously of going down a goal or 2 I'd think we were in for a hiding. 

 

This Hearts eam has a bit quality and character. 

We just don't have as much quality as the 2 above us, yet. 

 

 

. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, BerraBelieveit said:

We can acknowledge Neilson is doing a remarkable job and I absolutely love that he is our manager but we are allowed to give some criticism. 

 

We let them have the ball, in the final third you could see they have quality and are very good but we constantly stood off as they passed the ball about at the back. Neilson has told them to stand off so they cannot play through us but you could see they could through constantly. 

 

When you watch Hearts shape, I've never seen Alex Cochrane playing directly in front of Kingsley. That was a tweak that never worked at all. 

 

Second half much better as we got higher up the park. 

 

Before the game, I expected to impose our game plan on them and use the crowd with a high press but we worried too much about Celtic and not about ourselves which for me is the one weakness of our management team. 

 

 

Reference last paragraph, that was never going to happen. 

 

If you've watched celtic this season you'd know that was never going to happen. 

 

The tactics were a pk  and inside of the post from working. 

 

 

[scott herbertson]

5 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Folk are daft. 

 

Celtic have better players in most positions, they enforced their game on us and we struggled first half. 

 

2nd half, as expected they tired and we should have equalised. 

 

Folk asking why we can't play like the 2nd half in the first half, well the answer is the same reason celtic didn't play the same in the second half as the first. 

There are two teams, which far too many seem to ignore. 

They over powered us with their speed, awareness and quality. It's that simple. 

 

The only thing Robbie got wrong imo  was starting Gino, but after his brace last game I understand why he went with him. 

I'd have played McEneff. 

 

Devlin who I think is decent isn't as good as Beni or Haring in possession and needs to learn to calm down a bit. He was poor. 

 

Gordon also at fault for first goal,, seemed like he tried to push it away and it went through him, caught out by the pace a bit. 

 

At 2-1,the penalty miss is clearly crucial. 

Real shame. 

 

 

Like a few have said tho, I don't have the fear v the OF, I always think we are in the game which is a good feeling to have. You even felt that the celtic fans were still nervous at 2-0.

 

Previously of going down a goal or 2 I'd think we were in for a hiding. 

 

This Hearts eam has a bit quality and character. 

We just don't have as much quality as the 2 above us, yet. 

 

 

. 

 

 

That's exactly how i saw it.

 

Shame, as that was probably our best chance but they got the first goal and it was always going to be difficult after that.

[Diego10]

5 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Reference last paragraph, that was never going to happen. 

 

If you've watched celtic this season you'd know that was never going to happen. 

 

The tactics were a pk  and inside of the post from working. 

 

 

We stayed in the game, but the first hour tactically was not good at all. 

 

We repeatedly tried to go long over the top and it worked I think once.

 

It's harder to press them when they are flying at the start of games, I'd totally accept that - so you either go toe to toe and hope to outplay them which is really hard or you get extra bodies in midfield and try to stifle them.  We did half and half, badly

[Boyces beard]

7 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Folk are daft. 

 

Celtic have better players in most positions, they enforced their game on us and we struggled first half. 

 

2nd half, as expected they tired and we should have equalised. 

 

Folk asking why we can't play like the 2nd half in the first half, well the answer is the same reason celtic didn't play the same in the second half as the first. 

There are two teams, which far too many seem to ignore. 

They over powered us with their speed, awareness and quality. It's that simple. 

 

The only thing Robbie got wrong imo  was starting Gino, but after his brace last game I understand why he went with him. 

I'd have played McEneff. 

 

Devlin who I think is decent isn't as good as Beni or Haring in possession and needs to learn to calm down a bit. He was poor. 

 

Gordon also at fault for first goal,, seemed like he tried to push it away and it went through him, caught out by the pace a bit. 

 

At 2-1,the penalty miss is clearly crucial. 

Real shame. 

 

 

Like a few have said tho, I don't have the fear v the OF, I always think we are in the game which is a good feeling to have. You even felt that the celtic fans were still nervous at 2-0.

 

Previously of going down a goal or 2 I'd think we were in for a hiding. 

 

This Hearts eam has a bit quality and character. 

We just don't have as much quality as the 2 above us, yet. 

 

 

. 

Good post, we are as strong as we have been for many a year and we are only going to get better with the recruitment team we have in place. Even after going 2-0 down there was still the feeling we where not out of the game. This was proved to be correct and we deserved a point based on our 2nd half performance.

 

Previous Hearts teams would have gone on to take a 4 or 5 goal spanking. This Hearts team is different, i just don't have that same feeling of dread anymore when we go behind to one of the arse cheeks. This tells me we are doing something right and Robbie is doing a good job.

[Gizmo]

11 hours ago, jamborich said:

Frustrates the hell out of me thought we handled auchinleck brilliantly a game we should win but potential banana skin, tonight feck me tactics atrocious fail to see how that first half is acceptable 

They did to us, what we did to Auchinleck, at least in the first half. If you can see it when we are dominating, surely you can see it when the roles are reversed. 

Celtic are the best away side in the league by far. They swarmed us and overwhelmed us - making good players lose shape and focus. Despite this, and their multi-million dollar squad, we nearly got back on parity in the second-half. I reckon the days of 0-7 drubbings from them at home are over - but there is still a massive chasm in terms of resources to conquer. 

With that disparity in funding, they should be tonking us and everyone else 10-0. We are punching WAY above our weight to be competitive against them and to actually beat them in the league is quite an achivement

Harsh cold facts, I know we don't want to hear them. But let's not forget what we are up against - and that's before we add-in all their other "advantages".  

[One five]

5 hours ago, GinRummy said:

People going on about tactics and formations may have a point, a small point.  Too many of our guys played poorly in the first half. We made it easy to get closed down because when in possession we were way to static. You need to put in a good team performance against the old firm. Too many of our guys were looking after themselves. 

Good post , agreed with all the points 👍

[NextGenerationJambo]

Really don’t understand why folk are gushing over that celtic performance in the first half. You cannot give a team with their speed and creativity the time on the ball that we did - it’s absolute suicide, and lets be real here, we are lucky it wasn’t more than 2-0 at half time. The game could have easily been out of sight and that is not because celtic were unplayable, it’s because we did not match them man for man and continually gave them yards of space in our own third.
 

Blame the players all you want, and yes there was far too many passengers last night, but this is becoming a recurring theme. We are out of the game before we even get going. It is the manager’s job to recognise and fix that. Neilson has improved vastly from last year, albeit he has better players at his disposal, but unfortunately he fails to set us up properly for these games time and time again. 
 

If the aspiration is to truly challenge at the top and split the old firm we cannot afford to continually concede 45/60 minutes every game against them. They are better teams than us but that is absolutely no excuse to accept a pummelling for 45 minutes before we eventually decide to get our arses in gear. The old firm have a psychological stronghold over us and until the day comes that the manager, players and fans believe that we are actually capable of beating them, nothing will change. 
 

We may talk a good game and say we are confident in our own abilities and can take the game to anyone but that first half performance was not indicative of a team that believes in themselves. It is Neilson’s job to motivate the players and ultimately the responsibility lies with him. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Diego10 said:

We stayed in the game, but the first hour tactically was not good at all. 

 

We repeatedly tried to go long over the top and it worked I think once.

 

It's harder to press them when they are flying at the start of games, I'd totally accept that - so you either go toe to toe and hope to outplay them which is really hard or you get extra bodies in midfield and try to stifle them.  We did half and half, badly

 

More to do with players struggling v Celtic Tbh, lost a bit composure. 

Devlin was also a bit all over the place, however as I said I've had put McEneff in for Gino so the midfield was more compact and used Gino as a sub. 

 

However, he scored a brace last game so I understand why he started, also likey with the plan to make celtic wary about pushing the defensive line higher up. 

 

 

[John Findlay]

8 hours ago, henry said:

We had a wee break in play last night in the first half and there was an opportunity to get the message on the park to press higher. Neilson sat in the dug out. The biggest issue for me was Ginnelly & Mackay both caught in no man’s land of not pressing and not getting in areas to stop celtic moving up the park. Neilson claims to have changed a few things at halftime but in reality nothing changed until we scored. It’s like the players got a lift off the crowd & we started to chase everything. 

You obviously missed him giving that message to Haring.

[Factuer Moi]

Yikes, Robbie getting the old Jobbie again. We were playing Celtic though, not Partick Thistle. We paid for the mistakes, got some luck then lost it. Not great , was not the worst we have played V them though by any means. Regardless of the so called Under strength patter. They are a level above Us, have been for ages.

[Burford Jamtart]

9 hours ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

Really don’t understand why folk are gushing over that celtic performance in the first half. You cannot give a team with their speed and creativity the time on the ball that we did - it’s absolute suicide, and lets be real here, we are lucky it wasn’t more than 2-0 at half time. The game could have easily been out of sight and that is not because celtic were unplayable, it’s because we did not match them man for man and continually gave them yards of space in our own third.
 

Blame the players all you want, and yes there was far too many passengers last night, but this is becoming a recurring theme. We are out of the game before we even get going. It is the manager’s job to recognise and fix that. Neilson has improved vastly from last year, albeit he has better players at his disposal, but unfortunately he fails to set us up properly for these games time and time again. 
 

If the aspiration is to truly challenge at the top and split the old firm we cannot afford to continually concede 45/60 minutes every game against them. They are better teams than us but that is absolutely no excuse to accept a pummelling for 45 minutes before we eventually decide to get our arses in gear. The old firm have a psychological stronghold over us and until the day comes that the manager, players and fans believe that we are actually capable of beating them, nothing will change. 
 

We may talk a good game and say we are confident in our own abilities and can take the game to anyone but that first half performance was not indicative of a team that believes in themselves. It is Neilson’s job to motivate the players and ultimately the responsibility lies with him. 

Spot on!

 

Gordon

Atkinson

Halkett

Souttar

Kingsley

 

Beni

Devlin

McAneff

McKay

Mackay Steven

 

Ginnelly

 

4-2-3-1. or 4-5-1. either way, wouldn’t have allowed them to dominate like they did.  Lucky game wasn’t over at half time.

 

My point is he’d never play the side above or go on the front foot, he’s too defensive and guarded in the big games and that’s why we continually play catch up.  He goes for the reliable/safe in Smith, Boyce, Haring - but all too slow in my opinion if you want to be in their faces/on the front foot/get up the park or in behind them.  That’s how you turn over the Old Firm not by dropping off and trying to counter attack with 3 players one of whom too slow!!

 

 

[Sherbet]

53 minutes ago, Burford Jamtart said:

Spot on!

 

Gordon

Atkinson

Halkett

Souttar

Kingsley

 

Beni

Devlin

McAneff

McKay

Mackay Steven

 

Ginnelly

 

4-2-3-1. or 4-5-1. either way, wouldn’t have allowed them to dominate like they did.  Lucky game wasn’t over at half time.

 

My point is he’d never play the side above or go on the front foot, he’s too defensive and guarded in the big games and that’s why we continually play catch up.  He goes for the reliable/safe in Smith, Boyce, Haring - but all too slow in my opinion if you want to be in their faces/on the front foot/get up the park or in behind them.  That’s how you turn over the Old Firm not by dropping off and trying to counter attack with 3 players one of whom too slow!!

 

 

Thought he would have learned after the 20 final.  Tho if we had been 2 up at half time he would have defended 2 nd half. Probably same result

[feedthefox]

Some utter knee jerk garbage being spewed out on here . Celtic were tbf outstanding in that opening 45 but they were never going to be able to sustain it in second half. Hearts were v poor in first half but were always going to be better in second. Celtic's budget runs into 10s of millions so you pretty much have to expect at some point they will get their recruitment right and we and others will struggle, they also appear to have a pretty decent manager. So all things considered I think Robbie (plus his team) and Joe Savage are doing a fantastic job.

[feedthefox]

Gino has to play through middle all day long. Mckay who's easily our biggest influence on a game must love having someone like Gino ahead of him.

 

Gino is half the player out wide and seems to me to be more of a natural finisher than Boyce.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 hours ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

Really don’t understand why folk are gushing over that celtic performance in the first half. You cannot give a team with their speed and creativity the time on the ball that we did - it’s absolute suicide, and lets be real here, we are lucky it wasn’t more than 2-0 at half time. The game could have easily been out of sight and that is not because celtic were unplayable, it’s because we did not match them man for man and continually gave them yards of space in our own third.
 

Blame the players all you want, and yes there was far too many passengers last night, but this is becoming a recurring theme. We are out of the game before we even get going. It is the manager’s job to recognise and fix that. Neilson has improved vastly from last year, albeit he has better players at his disposal, but unfortunately he fails to set us up properly for these games time and time again. 
 

If the aspiration is to truly challenge at the top and split the old firm we cannot afford to continually concede 45/60 minutes every game against them. They are better teams than us but that is absolutely no excuse to accept a pummelling for 45 minutes before we eventually decide to get our arses in gear. The old firm have a psychological stronghold over us and until the day comes that the manager, players and fans believe that we are actually capable of beating them, nothing will change. 
 

We may talk a good game and say we are confident in our own abilities and can take the game to anyone but that first half performance was not indicative of a team that believes in themselves. It is Neilson’s job to motivate the players and ultimately the responsibility lies with him. 

 

 

That is not the game I watched.

 

No way did we get or accept a "pummelling" for 45 mins. We started on the front foot and created a half chance or two early on but Celtic are a good team with good players. They were happy to keep possession. We could have pressed harder but doing so could have tired us out and created more space for them, resulting in us getting a genuine pummelling in the 2nd half or still conceding more in the first. 

 

In fact, Gordon didn't have a single non-routine save to make and they needed a long range worldie and an offside goal to go in ahead. We still had enough in the tank to come out and "pummel" them in the second half and can consider ourselves very unlucky not to have got at least a point.

 

Let's not rewrite games. We weren't at the races for 35 mins in the first half but we also had Celtic under pressure for at least that much time in the 2nd. We certainly didn't get "pummelled" in the first or second half. 

[NextGenerationJambo]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

That is not the game I watched.

 

No way did we get or accept a "pummelling" for 45 mins. We started on the front foot and created a half chance or two early on but Celtic are a good team with good players. They were happy to keep possession. We could have pressed harder but doing so could have tired us out and created more space for them, resulting in us getting a genuine pummelling in the 2nd half or still conceding more in the first. 

 

In fact, Gordon didn't have a single non-routine save to make and they needed a long range worldie and an offside goal to go in ahead. We still had enough in the tank to come out and "pummel" them in the second half and can consider ourselves very unlucky not to have got at least a point.

 

Let's not rewrite games. We weren't at the races for 35 mins in the first half but we also had Celtic under pressure for at least that much time in the 2nd. We certainly didn't get "pummelled" in the first or second half. 

Starting on the front foot counts for absolutely nothing if you drop back in to your own third, where you still refuse to close the ball down. The first 10 minutes showed exactly why we should have pressed them and not given them all the time in the world because that is when they struggle. As happy as they were to have the ball, we were equally as happy to let them have it. Are you suggesting we don’t press and attempt to keep it tight? That tactic has worked fantastically well over the years for a multitude of teams. When you press a team, you force them in to moving the ball quicker and more often. Pressuring them in to doing things they are not comfortable with and disrupting their game plan. That tires them as well as us, it’s a two way street. 
 

Gordan may not of had to pull off wonder saves to keep us in the game but that was more down to poor finishing from celtic (the incredible team we could never dream of beating) and some superb blocks from our defenders. The fact of the matter is they were getting in dangerous positions regularly and we were doing very little to counteract it. I was pleased with how we played in the second half. Had we started the game in that manner we may well have gotten something from it instead of once again talking about ifs, buts and maybes. 
 

I can admit I was being slightly hyperbolic with the term “pummelling” but to say we weren’t at the races is a complete understatement. We were awful. My original point stands - the first half completely killed us. Inviting pressure and hoping we make it to 70 minutes without too much damage so that we can mount a late surge when they are tired is evidently not a successful tactic. It may well be the expectation but that does not mean that it should dictate how the game pans out -that’s down to the manager, to set us up correctly, and the players to execute it. 

The difference in mentality is frightening - celtic will be disappointed with that game. They’ll be happy they won obviously but frustrated that they dropped off so much and didn’t capitalise when they were dominating us. We, on the other hand, are clearly disappointed but also blindly accepting that a loss is just the expected result in these games, right? The better team always wins doesn’t it? We should be pleased that it wasn’t 5-0 eh! What a relief. We can compete with celtic. The problem is we (I include the fans in this) don’t believe we can compete with celtic. This mentality NEEDS to change, we stand to gain nothing from accepting that they will simply always be better than us. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

Starting on the front foot counts for absolutely nothing if you drop back in to your own third, where you still refuse to close the ball down. The first 10 minutes showed exactly why we should have pressed them and not given them all the time in the world because that is when they struggle. As happy as they were to have the ball, we were equally as happy to let them have it. Are you suggesting we don’t press and attempt to keep it tight? That tactic has worked fantastically well over the years for a multitude of teams. When you press a team, you force them in to moving the ball quicker and more often. Pressuring them in to doing things they are not comfortable with and disrupting their game plan. That tires them as well as us, it’s a two way street. 
 

Gordan may not of had to pull off wonder saves to keep us in the game but that was more down to poor finishing from celtic (the incredible team we could never dream of beating) and some superb blocks from our defenders. The fact of the matter is they were getting in dangerous positions regularly and we were doing very little to counteract it. I was pleased with how we played in the second half. Had we started the game in that manner we may well have gotten something from it instead of once again talking about ifs, buts and maybes. 
 

I can admit I was being slightly hyperbolic with the term “pummelling” but to say we weren’t at the races is a complete understatement. We were awful. My original point stands - the first half completely killed us. Inviting pressure and hoping we make it to 70 minutes without too much damage so that we can mount a late surge when they are tired is evidently not a successful tactic. It may well be the expectation but that does not mean that it should dictate how the game pans out -that’s down to the manager, to set us up correctly, and the players to execute it. 

The difference in mentality is frightening - celtic will be disappointed with that game. They’ll be happy they won obviously but frustrated that they dropped off so much and didn’t capitalise when they were dominating us. We, on the other hand, are clearly disappointed but also blindly accepting that a loss is just the expected result in these games, right? The better team always wins doesn’t it? We should be pleased that it wasn’t 5-0 eh! What a relief. We can compete with celtic. The problem is we (I include the fans in this) don’t believe we can compete with celtic. This mentality NEEDS to change, we stand to gain nothing from accepting that they will simply always be better than us. 

 

You forget celtic are the better team with better players. 

 

When you accept that you can then understand why the game played out the way it did. 

 

If you don't accept or understand that then you will get angry and frustrated. 

 

Celtic beat us 2-1 and we missed a pk when on top. That is competing. 

We also beat them this season. 

 

Fine margins. 

[NextGenerationJambo]

47 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

You forget celtic are the better team with better players. 

 

When you accept that you can then understand why the game played out the way it did. 

 

If you don't accept or understand that then you will get angry and frustrated. 

 

Celtic beat us 2-1 and we missed a pk when on top. That is competing. 

We also beat them this season. 

 

Fine margins. 

In my original post I quite literally stated that both the old firm teams are clearly better and recognised celtic’s speed and creativity, so I’m not forgetting anything. 
 

I also understand why the game played out the way it did and that is because we allowed celtic to dominate us and get a 2 goal lead, essentially killing the game. They may be a better team but they’re hardly bayern munich. Regardless, the better team doesn’t always win - if that was the case the bookies would be bankrupt - and I certainly hope that is not the attitude of the players and coaching staff. 
 

Anger and frustration are completely justified emotions after watching us play the exact same way that has failed us time and time again against these better teams. When will we learn? 
 

I agree the game was fine margins, which only amplifies the frustration. Exactly, we’ve already beaten them this season and also surrendered a 2-0 lead to them in the cup game. It appears as if we learned nothing from those matches. 
 

As I mentioned our issue is clearly a psychological one. The talk off the field does not match the tactics and application on it (not for the first half of most games anyway). Accepting that they are a better team and therefore are somehow more entitled to win these games is not the way to go about breaking the mental block. It’s 11 v 11 and we need to remember that. 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

In my original post I quite literally stated that both the old firm teams are clearly better and recognised celtic’s speed and creativity, so I’m not forgetting anything. 
 

I also understand why the game played out the way it did and that is because we allowed celtic to dominate us and get a 2 goal lead, essentially killing the game. They may be a better team but they’re hardly bayern munich. Regardless, the better team doesn’t always win - if that was the case the bookies would be bankrupt - and I certainly hope that is not the attitude of the players and coaching staff. 
 

Anger and frustration are completely justified emotions after watching us play the exact same way that has failed us time and time again against these better teams. When will we learn? 
 

I agree the game was fine margins, which only amplifies the frustration. Exactly, we’ve already beaten them this season and also surrendered a 2-0 lead to them in the cup game. It appears as if we learned nothing from those matches. 
 

As I mentioned our issue is clearly a psychological one. The talk off the field does not match the tactics and application on it (not for the first half of most games anyway). Accepting that they are a better team and therefore are somehow more entitled to win these games is not the way to go about breaking the mental block. It’s 11 v 11 and we need to remember that. 

 

 

Disagree Tbh. 

[NextGenerationJambo]

9 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Disagree Tbh. 

Fair enough, we’re all entitled to our opinions. 
 

Some people may be satisfied being a “nearly” team but I, for one, am not and I sincerely, sincerely hope that the players and coaching staff are not content with that either. 

[Diego10]

9 hours ago, feedthefox said:

Gino has to play through middle all day long. Mckay who's easily our biggest influence on a game must love having someone like Gino ahead of him.

 

Gino is half the player out wide and seems to me to be more of a natural finisher than Boyce.

Well, it's a take.

[The Bannon Flick]

22 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Folk are daft. 

 

Celtic have better players in most positions, they enforced their game on us and we struggled first half. 

 

2nd half, as expected they tired and we should have equalised. 

 

Folk asking why we can't play like the 2nd half in the first half, well the answer is the same reason celtic didn't play the same in the second half as the first. 

There are two teams, which far too many seem to ignore. 

They over powered us with their speed, awareness and quality. It's that simple. 

 

The only thing Robbie got wrong imo  was starting Gino, but after his brace last game I understand why he went with him. 

I'd have played McEneff. 

 

Devlin who I think is decent isn't as good as Beni or Haring in possession and needs to learn to calm down a bit. He was poor. 

 

Gordon also at fault for first goal,, seemed like he tried to push it away and it went through him, caught out by the pace a bit. 

 

At 2-1,the penalty miss is clearly crucial. 

Real shame. 

 

 

Like a few have said tho, I don't have the fear v the OF, I always think we are in the game which is a good feeling to have. You even felt that the celtic fans were still nervous at 2-0.

 

Previously of going down a goal or 2 I'd think we were in for a hiding. 

 

This Hearts eam has a bit quality and character. 

We just don't have as much quality as the 2 above us, yet. 

 

 

. 

Excellent post ☝️

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, NextGenerationJambo said:

Fair enough, we’re all entitled to our opinions. 
 

Some people may be satisfied being a “nearly” team but I, for one, am not and I sincerely, sincerely hope that the players and coaching staff are not content with that either. 

 

Being satisfied is irrelevant either way  tho. 

 

It's ambition v reality. 

 

I want us to win the league, the ucl in fact, however the reality is that is not going to happen. 

 

Can we get third, get European football, prize money and get better players to close the gap-yes. 

 

Can we then do that consistently - yes

 

If we do that, can we then get closer to the OF- yes. 

 

That for me is realistic and can help us achieve ambition. 

 

Celtic and rangers are better than us atm, quite a bit. Ambition or settling has nothing to do with it, it's a fact. 

A fact hammered home even more as our best defender leaves to join one of them. 

 

If we can be consistently better than Aberdeen and Hibs we'll be doing well, we are on our way to do that. 

Once we do that consistently then talk of splitting the of can become a serious ambition and not just a dream. 

 

 

 

 

[Absolute Scenes]

On 27/01/2022 at 08:49, hmfc_liam06 said:

I'd encourage some folk to maybe spend a wee bit of time watching the dugout next time. That first half was on the players.

Absolutely this. Watch the frustration from them when the players don’t follow through with what’s asked of them

[EH11 2NL]

Neilson is having a great season. Next 2 games could see us more comfortable in third than we have been in a long long time. Neilson deserves huge credit for that. 

[Rudolf]

On 27/01/2022 at 00:51, jamborich said:

Frustrates the hell out of me thought we handled auchinleck brilliantly a game we should win but potential banana skin, tonight feck me tactics atrocious fail to see how that first half is acceptable 

Someone else that knows F all about football 🤣

[Bull's-eye]

You can tell the posters that just believe any old guff spouted to them by another dumb dumb who listened to another dumb dumb.

 

Then there's the posters who comment about what they see with their own eyes. 

 

I'd say we're at about 50/50 on this thread. 

[NextGenerationJambo]

1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Being satisfied is irrelevant either way  tho. 

 

It's ambition v reality. 

 

I want us to win the league, the ucl in fact, however the reality is that is not going to happen. 

 

Can we get third, get European football, prize money and get better players to close the gap-yes. 

 

Can we then do that consistently - yes

 

If we do that, can we then get closer to the OF- yes. 

 

That for me is realistic and can help us achieve ambition. 

 

Celtic and rangers are better than us atm, quite a bit. Ambition or settling has nothing to do with it, it's a fact. 

A fact hammered home even more as our best defender leaves to join one of them. 

 

If we can be consistently better than Aberdeen and Hibs we'll be doing well, we are on our way to do that. 

Once we do that consistently then talk of splitting the of can become a serious ambition and not just a dream. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of what you are saying, I am not for one minute suggesting that in our current situation we should be splitting the old firm or even beating them. My point is that Tuesday night’s first half performance is not the way to go about it, regardless of the quality of our team. I’m puzzled as to how anyone thinks that the way we were set up and the tactics during the game were going to result in a positive outcome. 
 

Ambition and reality don’t have to be mutually exclusive. We can be both realistic and ambitious. We look as if we are on a promising path to long term success and of course it will take time, however until we change the mentality and our psyche, particularly surrounding these big games, our potential will be limited. Neilson has done a great job and no one expected us to even be at this end of the table but the onus is still on him to make the players believe in themselves and leave everything out on the field - that’s the difference between good and great managers. 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

I agree with most of what you are saying, I am not for one minute suggesting that in our current situation we should be splitting the old firm or even beating them. My point is that Tuesday night’s first half performance is not the way to go about it, regardless of the quality of our team. I’m puzzled as to how anyone thinks that the way we were set up and the tactics during the game were going to result in a positive outcome. 
 

Ambition and reality don’t have to be mutually exclusive. We can be both realistic and ambitious. We look as if we are on a promising path to long term success and of course it will take time, however until we change the mentality and our psyche, particularly surrounding these big games, our potential will be limited. Neilson has done a great job and no one expected us to even be at this end of the table but the onus is still on him to make the players believe in themselves and leave everything out on the field - that’s the difference between good and great managers. 

 

 

Don't buy Into the last sentence. 

 

If we can get 3rd 2/3/4 seasons in a row and build Neilson will have done a fantastic job. 

 

 

 

 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

11 minutes ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

I agree with most of what you are saying, I am not for one minute suggesting that in our current situation we should be splitting the old firm or even beating them. My point is that Tuesday night’s first half performance is not the way to go about it, regardless of the quality of our team. I’m puzzled as to how anyone thinks that the way we were set up and the tactics during the game were going to result in a positive outcome. 
 

Ambition and reality don’t have to be mutually exclusive. We can be both realistic and ambitious. We look as if we are on a promising path to long term success and of course it will take time, however until we change the mentality and our psyche, particularly surrounding these big games, our potential will be limited. Neilson has done a great job and no one expected us to even be at this end of the table but the onus is still on him to make the players believe in themselves and leave everything out on the field - that’s the difference between good and great managers. 

I agree with some of your comments but we did the high press for the first ten minutes chased and harried their defence into mistakes i think for whatever reason the players started to drop back I’m only twenty yards from dugout and can assure you he was telling players to get forward anyway two wins in next games and were out of sight 

[The Treasurer]

A new Robbie oot thread? 

We must have lost a game, as these only appear when we haven't won. 

Thankfully these type of threads are getting fewer and fewer, much to the disappointment of quite a few posters on here 

[NB GIN]

On 27/01/2022 at 00:53, PhoenixHearts said:

What's your solution?

Stop changing the formation and play the players that suit the role.

 

I think a forward 3 with Mackay Woodburn and ginelly pressing would have taken Celtic on Wednesday. 
 

To sit back is a recipe for disaster but some think this is a good idea against a very average Celtic team. 
 

Believe !!

[NB GIN]

3 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

A new Robbie oot thread? 

We must have lost a game, as these only appear when we haven't won. 

Thankfully these type of threads are getting fewer and fewer, much to the disappointment of quite a few posters on here 

I would not have him out he is very good at changing the game. He does seem to struggle setting up against the old firm personally think he is scared of a hiding.

Obviously they have a better team but they are nowhere near the teams of old. 
We have a good squad now and it’s capable of massive progression but that first half in Wednesday is as bad as I have seen. 
 

50/50 going forward if he is the right man for the job I hope so.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Stop changing the formation and play the players that suit the role.

 

I think a forward 3 with Mackay Woodburn and ginelly pressing would have taken Celtic on Wednesday. 
 

To sit back is a recipe for disaster but some think this is a good idea against a very average Celtic team. 
 

Believe !!

 

You are getting mixed up with sitting back and a better team forcing you back. 

 

[NextGenerationJambo]

18 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Don't buy Into the last sentence. 

 

If we can get 3rd 2/3/4 seasons in a row and build Neilson will have done a fantastic job. 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree. After where we have came from achieving 3rd place consistently will be a job well done but we are the third biggest team in Scotland and 3rd should be our bare minimum. We need trophies and in order to get those you have to beat the old firm more often than not. If it is not Neilson's job to motivate the players and instil belief into them then whose job is it? The responsibility has to lie with someone.

 

14 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

I agree with some of your comments but we did the high press for the first ten minutes chased and harried their defence into mistakes i think for whatever reason the players started to drop back I’m only twenty yards from dugout and can assure you he was telling players to get forward anyway two wins in next games and were out of sight 

The first 10 minutes is all the evidence you need. Celtic were poor and they were uncomfortable on the ball... until we allowed them not to be. I am aware of Neilson telling the team to push up the park and if dropping deep was not part of his tactics then you have to ask the question why were the players not sticking to the tactics? Either way, it's the failing of the manager.

 

We can accept Neilson has done a good job and still criticise elements of his management style, not everything has to be black or white. We have gotten into a bad habit of playing a certain way in these games, it's not just a one off and I would like to think we are doing more than just talking a good game to the media in order to rectify this. 

 

Next 2 games are massive and will tell us a lot about the character and mentality of the team. 

[Homme]

I'd have loved to have seen posters reactions if we pressed them hard up the pitch and let them obliterate us on the counter.

 

Wonder who's fault that would have been then.

 

Neilson's probably.

[Wee Mikey]

33 minutes ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

I agree with most of what you are saying, I am not for one minute suggesting that in our current situation we should be splitting the old firm or even beating them. My point is that Tuesday night’s first half performance is not the way to go about it, regardless of the quality of our team. I’m puzzled as to how anyone thinks that the way we were set up and the tactics during the game were going to result in a positive outcome. 
 

Ambition and reality don’t have to be mutually exclusive. We can be both realistic and ambitious. We look as if we are on a promising path to long term success and of course it will take time, however until we change the mentality and our psyche, particularly surrounding these big games, our potential will be limited. Neilson has done a great job and no one expected us to even be at this end of the table but the onus is still on him to make the players believe in themselves and leave everything out on the field - that’s the difference between good and great managers. 

 

Overall, not a bad take on things. But, I for one, fully expected us to be at this end of the table. The changes were in progress and all the pre-season chat about being in a relegation battle have been shown to be the ramblings of folks who have a curiously negative mind-set and forever seeking to denigrate.

 

One could even be forgiven for thinking that some posters were wishing for failure of some sort!

 

Ach, still a long way to go yet so let's hope that we see to our next two matches with aplomb. We really should having witnessed both Motherwell's and Hibs' recent performances.

[The Treasurer]

17 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

I would not have him out he is very good at changing the game. He does seem to struggle setting up against the old firm personally think he is scared of a hiding.

Obviously they have a better team but they are nowhere near the teams of old. 
We have a good squad now and it’s capable of massive progression but that first half in Wednesday is as bad as I have seen. 
 

50/50 going forward if he is the right man for the job I hope so.

If players are having an off night or misplacing passes is not down to the manager, unless he doesn't try to change things during the game, but as you say, he does make changes when required 

[Wee Mikey]

2 minutes ago, Homme said:

I'd have loved to have seen posters reactions if we pressed them hard up the pitch and let them obliterate us on the counter.

 

Wonder who's fault that would have been then.

 

Neilson's probably.

 

Too true! Mind you, I'm of the opinion that the best way to get the better of Celtic is to get right in about them. The number of times I've witnessed us 'giving them' time on the ball? Having said that, I honestly don't think that was the case on Wed.

 

Smith was struggling, and Atkinson blundered prior to getting a grip.

 

I think Wed was a wee bit like earlier in the season when we were still gathering players ... a good start but then tripped up in several matches where we would've not done so had we had said players for a few more weeks.

 

Atkinson? Clearly a talent but needing a few games to bed in? Simm? Didn't even have the opportunity to train with the squad and yet showed promise.

 

Now, we have Sibbick. Again, I'll not be surprised if it takes a few outings for things to gel.

 

I'm glad that I'm not the manager. 😁

 

[Rudolf]

20 minutes ago, Homme said:

I'd have loved to have seen posters reactions if we pressed them hard up the pitch and let them obliterate us on the counter.

 

Wonder who's fault that would have been then.

 

Neilson's probably.

No, you don't understand.

 

All you have to do is press and you win the game.

 

The quality of the opposition is irrelevant.

[Wee Mikey]

27 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

You are getting mixed up with sitting back and a better team forcing you back. 

 

 

True though that may very well be, we kinda made a mess of things in the 1st half, for whatever reason. Celtic were kicking balls into touch and were looking shaky in defence.

 

Just our misfortune that we were forced into early changes? Och, I dunno. It was a game that, ultimately, could've gone either way. It's all too easy post-hoc to question the starting 11, but, as always, the coaches see our players in training every day and make decisions. They're the experts, and their decisions are made in good faith.

[hmfc_liam06]

2 hours ago, Absolute Scenes said:

Absolutely this. Watch the frustration from them when the players don’t follow through with what’s asked of them

Folk are seeing what they want to see because it suits their preconceived agenda, it’s mental. Neilson was raging at that first half on Wednesday.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

True though that may very well be, we kinda made a mess of things in the 1st half, for whatever reason. Celtic were kicking balls into touch and were looking shaky in defence.

 

Just our misfortune that we were forced into early changes? Och, I dunno. It was a game that, ultimately, could've gone either way. It's all too easy post-hoc to question the starting 11, but, as always, the coaches see our players in training every day and make decisions. They're the experts, and their decisions are made in good faith.

 

Makes sense. 

 

Our players weren't at it the first half, basic control, Composure and passing escaped many for a bit. 

 

However, Celtic are a good team, too many on here think press and run about is the tactic that wins every game. 

It doesn't. 

 

Even in the first half, Gordon was relatively Quiet and only well hit shot / mistake   and an offside goal was the difference. 

We weren't ripped to bits or carved open often, if at all. 

 

In the second half Gordon was busier in the first ten minutes than he'd been in the whole first half. 

 

After that we dictated the play. 

 

Folk thinking if we pressed from the start we were quids in are off on one.