Russia Invades Ukraine

[ri Alban]

Seriously, tho. What are they gonnae talk about, that couldn't be said before this. 

Ukraine"So?" 

Putin "Gie's the land" 

Ukraine "Feck off" 

Putin  " "

[ri Alban]

Tho I think NATO should be 'Projecting it's Power'  it's good to see the Russian Myth being trounced.

Edited February 28, 2022 by ri Alban

[Herbert.]

6 hours ago, Pap said:

 

Russia actually has very little debt. Obviously the West have moved to stop them borrowing but China for sure will help them.

 

 

China has said it won't be helping Russia.

[Herbert.]

6 hours ago, jonesy said:

The tragedy of your own willy being so small you've got to wave yer pal's around to make yourself feel better.

 

 

You know our nukes are rented from America. 

[ri Alban]

Just on this Liz Truss saying people should go and fight. What if folk feel like going to fight for Russia,  Do these people lose their passports on return. Technically, it's all the same.

 

And if it's good enough for Joe public, send in the Military.

[Mister T]

45 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

You know our nukes are rented from America. 

Never Never. In more than one way. 

[Pap]

53 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

China has said it won't be helping Russia.

 

I think they will.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/55d86391-2d05-4eb4-869c-83a7878b8942

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 hours ago, Pap said:

 

Russia actually has very little debt. Obviously the West have moved to stop them borrowing but China for sure will help them.

 

True but his war chests must be going down at some rate of knots and the longer it drags on at £15billion a day it won't take too long to deplete them completely.

[Bindy Badgy]

 

[Dazo]

We should probably name this thread could argue in a empty house thread. At least we’ve found another topic Victorian is an expert in, some of you will blame the tories for anything and Wee nippy will be loving it. 😂😂😂

[il Duce McTarkin]

8 minutes ago, Barack said:

Rouble crashing. 20% interest rates in Russia, up from 9.5%. With almost certainty to go higher still.

 

People causing potential runs on the banks, & shortly could be struggling to pay for the most basic commodities.

 

A war at home and abroad on the cards. 

 

And nuking folk isn't going to change any of that to Russia's benefit.

 

Hopefull the other crime-lords in and around the Kremlin are unimpressed with the damage that Putin is doing to 'business'.

 

It's being exposed as the nuclear armed petrol/gas station run by the mafia that we've always suspected that it is.

[The Real Maroonblood]

51 minutes ago, Dazo said:

We should probably name this thread could argue in a empty house thread. At least we’ve found another topic Victorian is an expert in, some of you will blame the tories for anything and Wee nippy will be loving it. 😂😂😂

Nicola in your head again?

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Just on this Liz Truss saying people should go and fight. What if folk feel like going to fight for Russia,  Do these people lose their passports on return. Technically, it's all the same.

 

And if it's good enough for Joe public, send in the Military.

you are on a roll on this thread.. firstly  NATO should project it’s power, then claiming it’s the same thing to go and fight for Russia.

 

got is a rest man, read the room - folk not in the mood for trolling. (I’m going to assume you aren’t dumb enough to really mean it)

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Nicola in your head again?

 

Me as well it seems.  What a weirdo.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Me as well it seems.  What a weirdo.

[Jeff]

Apparently Putin is thinking about charging each citizen 60 rubles each of something.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

50 minutes ago, Barack said:

Rouble crashing. 20% interest rates in Russia, up from 9.5%. With almost certainty to go higher still.

 

People causing potential runs on the banks, & shortly could be struggling to pay for the most basic commodities.

 

A war at home and abroad on the cards. 

They've raised the rates to try to entice people into investing in the Rouble.

 

Meanwhile there's reportedly huge queues at ATMs and banks as folk try to get out what they can. 

 

It'll not be long before they're back to the good old days of the 80's bread queues. 

[milky_26]

14 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

They've raised the rates to try to entice people into investing in the Rouble.

 

Meanwhile there's reportedly huge queues at ATMs and banks as folk try to get out what they can. 

 

It'll not be long before they're back to the good old days of the 80's bread queues. 

Or the days where people were paid with jars of pickles

[AlimOzturk]

Putin is ****ing his own citizens. Hope they uprise and get rid of him. 

[kingantti1874]

13 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Putin is ****ing his own citizens. Hope they uprise and get rid of him. 

the problem is the majority of them don’t know that, social media being sanitised and all the are being broadcast is RT..

 

if you’ve watched RT Ukraine is full of terrorists, Russia are undertaking a special operation and precision strikes to remove said terrorists and liberate the people.. the west is pushing unprovoked sanctions.. 

 

we know how effective. That propaganda can be.. we’ve had brexit lies and independence lies and the gullible fall for it time and time again..

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

We should probably name this thread could argue in a empty house thread. At least we’ve found another topic Victorian is an expert in, some of you will blame the tories for anything and Wee nippy will be loving it. 😂😂😂

Here was me thinking this thread was one subject we could all agree on but no some people just can't put their petty local political football team mentality to one side. 

Using a serious discussion thread in this way shows disrespect. 

The thread title has been changed and people should stick to the point. 

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

True but his war chests must be going down at some rate of knots and the longer it drags on at £15billion a day it won't take too long to deplete them completely.

I don't know where that figure came from but the accountant in me says it's not an incremental cash burn.

 

It may include the cost of weaponry being used (all of which was bought and paid for over the last few years) and wages to the military personnel, which would have been paid anyway. I just don't imagine that Putin's having to go to the cash machine and withdraw £15bn every day.

 

1 hour ago, Barack said:

Rouble crashing. 20% interest rates in Russia, up from 9.5%. With almost certainty to go higher still.

 

People causing potential runs on the banks, & shortly could be struggling to pay for the most basic commodities.

 

A war at home and abroad on the cards. 

So, I could withdraw a few bob from my current account, buy loads of Roubles (20-25% more than yesterday) and get a nice 20% return on it? Doesn't sound to bad. Where do I sign up?

[Herbert.]

38 minutes ago, jonesy said:

It's only fair. We sent them James Cordon, and he's an utter weapon.

 

 

We deserve nuked for letting that talentless prick gain any kind of fame. 

[Herbert.]

7 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I don't know where that figure came from but the accountant in me says it's not an incremental cash burn.

 

It may include the cost of weaponry being used (all of which was bought and paid for over the last few years) and wages to the military personnel, which would have been paid anyway. I just don't imagine that Putin's having to go to the cash machine and withdraw £15bn every day.

 

So, I could withdraw a few bob from my current account, buy loads of Roubles (20-25% more than yesterday) and get a nice 20% return on it? Doesn't sound to bad. Where do I sign up?

 

 

It was some "expert" that came up with the figure but war isn't cheap even if the numbers are off and Russia is being shut off from the rest of the world. If this dragged on for a few months Russia could end up like Zimbabwe.

[AlimOzturk]

The whole world have nothing to gain from this war. Not even Russia. A nuclear war would **** the whole entire world back Stone Age times so even China and other dictatorship communist regimes must be very worried at the prospect. Putin for the sake of the world has to for the sake of humanity. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Nobody is going to be launching nuclear weapons, bud. It's all hardman posturing with a bit of domestic politics thrown in.

 

Yep, and if they do, we're all fecked anyway, so no point worrying about it

[I P Knightley]

14 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

It was some "expert" that came up with the figure but war isn't cheap even if the numbers are off and Russia is being shut off from the rest of the world. If this dragged on for a few months Russia could end up like Zimbabwe.

Oooh! I could maybe spend my trillion dollar bill!

[AlimOzturk]

8 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Nobody is going to be launching nuclear weapons, bud. It's all hardman posturing with a bit of domestic politics thrown in.

Whilst the chances are low of anyone firing nukes the prospect is terrifying. 

 

Putin either way has to Go. He must have a target on his head. 
 

 

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Nicola in your head again?

You’ve read that all wrong trm, I was laughing at those who bring her into this thread. 😊

[Cade]

Belarus "votes" to re-introduce nuclear weapons on their soil.

[redjambo]

I suspect that with the recent news of sanctions and military support to Ukraine that the Russians will soon be attempting to change the narrative domestically to one of this being a fight for the very existence of Russia itself.

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Oooh! I could maybe spend my trillion dollar bill!

 

I can only think that the cost of supply lines, ammo used, missiles fired, fuel burned, damage to economy etc is being added up, when much of it is, as you say, already spent.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

And nuking folk isn't going to change any of that to Russia's benefit.

 

Hopefull the other crime-lords in and around the Kremlin are unimpressed with the damage that Putin is doing to 'business'.

 

It's being exposed as the nuclear armed petrol/gas station run by the mafia that we've always suspected that it is.

Putin is fllowing the Soviet doctrine play book which is why Biden isn't saying anything and Ben Wallace has made it clear it's what was expected. Hence no retaliatory action form NATO.

Soviets never expected to win a ground war against NATO* (poorer equipment , poorer quality soldiers) so have a go-to policy on nukes pretty early.

ANd if it does happen it'll all be over pretty quick.😄

 

I know - it's not NATO, but Russia's worst nightmare is here. Only overwhelming numbers of soldiers will swing it to a "quick" win. Turning Kyiv into Grozny will be a horror show and a long & painful battle. . Hence Putin shopping around (Kazak & Belaruss) for reinforcements. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by NANOJAMBO

[dobmisterdobster]

Bolsonaro is not denouncing Russia. BRIC allies are sticking together.

[Pap]

27 minutes ago, Cade said:

Belarus "votes" to re-introduce nuclear weapons on their soil.

 

I dont think this makes much difference. Except for a quicker end to Ukraine and the start of WW3.

 

I cant help but feel somewhere down the line that Belarus are going to invade Latvia or Lithuania. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Pap

[Taffin]

What's the angle of Ukraine joining the EU all about?

 

Why would that currently help Ukraine firstly? 

 

Secondly, how could they possibly currently meet the criteria to join?

Edited February 28, 2022 by Taffin

[Victorian]

Nobody can rely on any previous doctrine or any theoretical playbook until the most important variable can be evaluated.  Putin's state of mind / his sanity.  A reasonably sane,  rational thinking Putin might operate to known doctrine.  If he's unstable along a spectrum of mental disorder then nothing can be taken for granted.

 

 

[Pap]

15 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Bolsonaro is not denouncing Russia. BRIC allies are sticking together.

 

Not quite. South Africa have been quite vocal about it.

[dobmisterdobster]

3 minutes ago, Pap said:

 

Not quite. South Africa have been quite vocal about it.

 

Brazil Russia India China

[highlandjambo3]

Germany sending 5,000 helmets to Ukraine……….JKB could have easily matched that 😁

[Mikey1874]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I've got too much time on my hands and bloody awful insomnia , but this is a really fascinating take on the current war in Ukraine. Quite a background - he went to StAndrews. 

 

The title should probably say "Why Russia might lose the war".

 

If you're on Twitter , take a look. 

 

@kamilkazani

 

Why Russia will lose this war?

Much of the "realist" discourse is about accepting Putin's victory, cuz it's *guaranteed*. But how do we know it is?

I'll argue that analysts 1) overrate Russian army 2) underrate Ukrainian one 3) misunderstand Russian strategy & political goals🧵

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Basically Putin expectes an easy victory. And Ukrainians have become stronger since 2014.

 

The pro Russian propaganda is Russia hasn't sent more overwhelmingly forces to save comrade Ukrainian lives.

 

Says only option to win is bomb cities as in Syria but the civilian casualties (war crimes) and possible NATO response makes that tricky. 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mikey1874

[JFK-1]

 

[Pap]

8 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Brazil Russia India China South Africa

 

FTFY

 

You cant just miss one country out to suit your point

Edited February 28, 2022 by Pap

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cheers

 

Basically Putin expectes an easy victory. And Ukrainians have become stronger since 2014.

 

The pro Russian propaganda is Russia hasn't sent more overwhelmingly forces to save comrade Ukrainian lives.

 

Says only option to win is bomb cities as in Syria but the civilian casualties (war crimes) and possible NATO response makes that tricky. 

 

It's a hell of a read - he has much more low-level detail on the history of Putin and the Crimea/Ukr situation but he's definitely in step with other stuff I'm reading. 

[ArcticJambo]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What's the angle of Ukraine joining the EU all about?

 

Why would that currently help Ukraine firstly? 

 

Secondly, how could they possibly currently meet the criteria to join?

 

It's a pretty big inflamatory GIRUY you from Zelensky, and probably won't help matters.  It appears to me anyway, that Putin does genuniely have respect for Ukraine and its people ( see https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2021-07-13/putins-article-historical-unity-russians-and-ukrainians ) but does not obviously have the same opinion on those currently running the country. To date the military instructions have been to invade and occupy, and avoid any cicvilian casulaties and keep damage to imfrastructure to a minuimum. 

 

His objective however, does not seem to have been met under those conditions.  At this point riling him up by twisting the knife from those he's try8ing to oust will most likely not go down very well.

[hughesie27]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Cheers

 

Basically Putin expectes an easy victory. And Ukrainians have become stronger since 2014.

 

The pro Russian propaganda is Russia hasn't sent more overwhelmingly forces to save comrade Ukrainian lives.

 

Says only option to win is bomb cities as in Syria but the civilian casualties (war crimes) and possible NATO response makes that tricky. 

 

Defeat? What defeat...

 

"I don’t understand at all where they got this thesis about blitzkrieg and 72 hours for the entire operation. Apparently, from 72 TsIPSO.

First of all, there are no idiots in the General Staff, and hardly anyone took less than two weeks for an operation. And no one expected an easy walk. This is absolutely certain.

I will say this - being a witness to the US operation in Iraq - the Russian army is operating quite successfully. You can, of course, say something about the unsuccessful course of the Russian operation, only now Kyiv is blocked, and the AFU units cannot come to the aid of the capital (!) Because they are bound by battles in the south and east. At the same time, they leave the cities, retreat. Even despite the fact that they are provided with full technical and intelligence support from NATO countries.

I hope no one has any illusions that the Ukrainian military in this case is just a tool of Washington and London? So, the tool is slowly breaking down. The infrastructure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been largely destroyed, the losses of personnel are very large, the losses of equipment are huge. In Kyiv, armed lunatics are beating each other with their machine guns, increasing the panic every day.

So comparing with Iraq. In the same way, the advance of the coalition troops was difficult - not only the United States fought there. Also, the Americans lost equipment in battles. Only now they were able to block Baghdad only at the end of the second week of the war. What is the day of the operation? And this despite the fact that in Iraq the entire south did not fight against the coalition at all, because the Shiites immediately went over to its side.

And despite the fact that the US Air Force bombed everything that came to hand. Residential areas were demolished only on the way if there was information that there were military units there or someone of their Iraqi leaders was hiding. And the Russian Aerospace Forces, as we see, operate in a completely different way.

Now, in general, the main destruction of civilian infrastructure is the result of the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which, when retreating, blow up bridges and mine roads.

On the fifth day of the operation, we have the besieged capital, the second largest city, advancement in the direction of the DPR / LPR and the breaking of the defense, the blockaded Mariupol. And a considerable territory under the control of the Russian army.

Well, if all this, according to Western analysts and information front fighters from Ukraine, is a failed operation, then tell me what a successful operation looks like."

https://t.me/MedvedevVesti/7928

Edited February 28, 2022 by hughesie27

[ArcticJambo]

Has anybody seen any pics/videos of military casualties?  I've seen a few vids of destroyed vehicles and some 'cool' explosions but nothing like what we saw in the ME conflicts of th epast 20 yrs.  Just wondering, though I will conced I've not been making any real effort to dig these up.

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

 

It's a pretty big inflamatory GIRUY you from Zelensky, and probably won't help matters.  It appears to me anyway, that Putin does genuniely have respect for Ukraine and its people ( see https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/analyses/2021-07-13/putins-article-historical-unity-russians-and-ukrainians ) but does not obviously have the same opinion on those currently running the country. To date the military instructions have been to invade and occupy, and avoid any cicvilian casulaties and keep damage to imfrastructure to a minuimum. 

 

His objective however, does not seem to have been met under those conditions.  At this point riling him up by twisting the knife from those he's try8ing to oust will most likely not go down very well.

 

Cheers. It struck me as nothing more than sticking two fingers up at Putin but I wasn't sure if I was missing some key thing it would trigger.

 

Seems like it may be an unwise move in terms of de-escalation.

[indianajones]

4 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Has anybody seen any pics/videos of military casualties?  I've seen a few vids of destroyed vehicles and some 'cool' explosions but nothing like what we saw in the ME conflicts of th epast 20 yrs.  Just wondering, though I will conced I've not been making any real effort to dig these up.

 

I've seen a few horrible videos showing casualties but more videos of Russian PoWs. 

 

Probably a good idea not to go searching. There is some horrible stuff out there i would rather of not seen. 

[hughesie27]

5 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Has anybody seen any pics/videos of military casualties?  I've seen a few vids of destroyed vehicles and some 'cool' explosions but nothing like what we saw in the ME conflicts of th epast 20 yrs.  Just wondering, though I will conced I've not been making any real effort to dig these up.

Yeah. Only on the Ukranian side thanks to the pro Russia Telegram group. And not all that many.