Russia Invades Ukraine

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The UK did more than most in response and indeed even before the invasion. Some arms supplies (denied over flight of Germany) and leading proponents of kicking Russia out of Swift while Germany Italy and Hungary dragged their feet.The EU dragged its feet and even Donald Tusk has called the EU response shameful.

 

Meanwhile NL, Slovenia, Lithuania & Poland ( which last time I looked , are in the EU) are piling in with aid. 

In less than a week , Germany has totally changed its policy on defence aid to Ukraine and its own defence spending policy. In less than a week

SWIFT has been denied to Russia.

 

Meanwhile the Fabulous Brexit Boys (eg Hannan & Farage)  have been hammered for their support of Putin - a man who is threatening total nuclear annihilation for millions. 

This is your reminder that the brexit  Leave campaign was paid for by Putin and delivered by a bunch of traitors. 

[Gizmo]

41 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Sometimes it seems on these discussions that people suggest lobbing nukes like you would hand grenades. The way my understanding of nukes is that for example two landing on precise targets could wipe out Edinburgh and all therein. If the big bang didn't get you the after blast radiation would.

Given the proximity of Faslane to the central belt and the strategic targets of Torness and any major city with a University being a target, unfortunately the central belt of Scotland from west to east would be one of the first places to be completely wiped off the face of the earth during a full-on nuclear exchange. 

Perhaps all the folk on this thread displaying such a fervour for use of nukes or NATO intervention on the ground to satisfy their Armchair Generals fetishisation of warfare might consider this first. 

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

You not read the first bit, the relevant bit to the Tories being absolutely up to their baws in filthy Russian money? The bit you started with?

It was 3 individuals already sanctioned and 4 banks nobody had heard of that Johnson led with. Gave the serious players a few days of a window to move assets around. 

Germany Italy and Hungary gave them more time on Swift. Conspiring with Boris presumably.

[Boab]

13 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Given the proximity of Faslane to the central belt and the strategic targets of Torness and any major city with a University being a target, unfortunately the central belt of Scotland from west to east would be one of the first places to be completely wiped off the face of the earth during a full-on nuclear exchange. 

Perhaps all the folk on this thread displaying such a fervour for use of nukes or NATO intervention on the ground to satisfy their Armchair Generals fetishisation of warfare might consider this first. 

If there ever was a full on nuke exchange, it wouldn't matter if you were in Dumbarton or Delhi !

We'd all be ****ed !

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Germany Italy and Hungary gave them more time on Swift. Conspiring with Boris presumably.

Boris gave high net worth individuals plenty time to move stuff around. 

Bill Browder, a man who knows all about the oligarchy, was scathing. 

 

Like I said earlier, he can clear it all up really quickly. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

15 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

Meanwhile the Fabulous Brexit Boys (eg Hannan & Farage)  have been hammered for their support of Putin - a man who is threatening total nuclear annihilation for millions. 

This is your reminder that the brexit  Leave campaign was paid for by Putin and delivered by a bunch of traitors. 

 

That's the long and short of it right there.

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

Meanwhile NL, Slovenia, Lithuania & Poland ( which last time I looked , are in the EU) are piling in with aid. 

In less than a week , Germany has totally changed its policy on defence aid to Ukraine and its own defence spending policy. In less than a week

SWIFT has been denied to Russia.

 

Meanwhile the Fabulous Brexit Boys (eg Hannan & Farage)  have been hammered for their support of Putin - a man who is threatening total nuclear annihilation for millions. 

This is your reminder that the brexit  Leave campaign was paid for by Putin and delivered by a bunch of traitors. 

I was not a supporter of Brexit. And I don't think Hannan and Farage had much to do with the UK response to the Russian invasion. And the UK supplied arms some time before the invasion. While Germany denied over flight rights for the arms delivery. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Francis Albert

[Cruyff]

20 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I think he’ll realise the whole venture isn’t going to work but before they withdraw he’ll make one grand gesture to prove their power. So some poor city is going to get battered the day before a peace agreement is made so he can save face.

It does look increasingly ominous that he will do something mental and desperate. 

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

If there ever was a full on nuke exchange, it wouldn't matter if you were in Dumbarton or Delhi !

We'd all be ****ed !

I remember doing a project on it at secondary school and one of the things was that if a 5 megaton nuke went off on the GPO at the East End the fireball would consume all off the old town and new town. As an example of the power the explosion in Beirut recently was estimated at 0.5 kilo ton explosive power. 

[Sharpie]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

It does look increasingly ominous that he will do something mental and desperate. 

 

I think what might save the world is that in small comments and opinions I have seen in the mass media, there were doubts about he Putin and his objectives. He was allowed to go  a certain distance but will be stopped. My feeling watching some of the news was that he would only be allowed to go so far, it was also discreetly suggested that  any removal would be of a permanent manner.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Sharpie

[dobmisterdobster]

20 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Germany Italy and Hungary gave them more time on Swift. Conspiring with Boris presumably.

 

Boris: Expell Russia from Swift.

 

EU: No.

 

Remainers: See? I told you Boris was a Kremlin puppet!

[Fitzroy Pointon]

Worlds biggest cargo aircraft confirmed destroyed. 

 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

It was a poster called steak that said he went to bed crying about all the suffering of the women, children and OAPS in the Ukraine, It's clearly a look at me post because that's happening every night anyway in other parts of the world. He's probably a celtic fan.

The media is a powerful thing and some people are vulnerable to it's effects and I can empathise with them.

What I can't stomach is the outright hypocrisy of governments and politicians, who have that very same media in their back pocket.

Empathy with Ukrainian civilians is no different to empathy with Yemenis suffering terribly be cause of our government's actions, at the behest of a truly vile regime.

 

[trotter]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Get rid of our nukes and you will see what Russia (and China) can really do.

Going slightly OT, they aren't actually ours. All our Trident missiles are leased from the Americans in exchange for the use of Faslane/Coulport (amongst other things). We do produce the warheads domestically, but they aren't much use without the missiles!

 

Going back OT, Putin may not be rational by our standards, but he his by Russia's. He, and his cabinet know that any use of nuclear weapons will be the end. This is bluster and nothing more, he realizes that he has essentially gotten Russia into another Chechnya situation and is now trying anything to save face, As I said before, and was ridiculed for, he is a bully and nothing more. A very powerful one admittedly, but still just a bully. If he puts his missile regiments on alert, then we tell him our subs are in the Med. Otherwise he will know that everytime he wants to pull this kind of shit in the future, all he has to do is pull the nuclear card and he knows we will back off. It leaves us looking weak, and bullies only respect strength. Of course i'm not advocating launching the bloody things, but he has to know/learn that we are not going to put up with his shit. 

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, trotter said:

Going slightly OT, they aren't actually ours. All our Trident missiles are leased from the Americans in exchange for the use of Faslane/Coulport (amongst other things). We do produce the warheads domestically, but they aren't much use without the missiles!

 

Going back OT, Putin may not be rational by our standards, but he his by Russia's. He, and his cabinet know that any use of nuclear weapons will be the end. This is bluster and nothing more, he realizes that he has essentially gotten Russia into another Chechnya situation and is now trying anything to save face, As I said before, and was ridiculed for, he is a bully and nothing more. A very powerful one admittedly, but still just a bully. If he puts his missile regiments on alert, then we tell him our subs are in the Med. Otherwise he will know that everytime he wants to pull this kind of shit in the future, all he has to do is pull the nuclear card and he knows we will back off. It leaves us looking weak, and bullies only respect strength. Of course i'm not advocating launching the bloody things, but he has to know/learn that we are not going to put up with his shit. 

 

 

But who fires the retaliatory nuclear missiles?

 

[HartleyLegend3]

Corrupt 

[tightrope]

4 minutes ago, trotter said:

Going slightly OT, they aren't actually ours. All our Trident missiles are leased from the Americans in exchange for the use of Faslane/Coulport (amongst other things). We do produce the warheads domestically, but they aren't much use without the missiles!

 

Going back OT, Putin may not be rational by our standards, but he his by Russia's. He, and his cabinet know that any use of nuclear weapons will be the end. This is bluster and nothing more, he realizes that he has essentially gotten Russia into another Chechnya situation and is now trying anything to save face, As I said before, and was ridiculed for, he is a bully and nothing more. A very powerful one admittedly, but still just a bully. If he puts his missile regiments on alert, then we tell him our subs are in the Med. Otherwise he will know that everytime he wants to pull this kind of shit in the future, all he has to do is pull the nuclear card and he knows we will back off. It leaves us looking weak, and bullies only respect strength. Of course i'm not advocating launching the bloody things, but he has to know/learn that we are not going to put up with his shit. 

 

 

I agree, also I would imagine the nuclear deterrent is always on "special alert" 

[The Mighty Thor]

24 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Boris: Expell Russia from Swift.

 

EU: No.

 

Remainers: See? I told you Boris was a Kremlin puppet!

The £2 million we know about makes him in the thrall of the Kremlin.

Bunking off to Lebedev's Italian castle in the middle of the Salisbury poisoning makes him dubious.

Enobling Lebedev months later.....the stench 

[trotter]

6 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

But who fires the retaliatory nuclear missiles?

 

Us, the US or France are the only Western countries that possess them (I'm ignoring Israel for obvious reasons). You can't let it go, so if Russia uses them, there will be a retaliatory strike, probably not at Moscow, but certainly at their missile fields to ensure they can't do it again. But an attack on Russia itself will be an escalation into end times. There is no way to negotiate with nukes, it's why I wish we could dis-invent the ******* things. Nuclear war isn't 'winnable', it's just a matter of who racks up the higher body count before everyone is dead. 

[Costanza]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Given the proximity of Faslane to the central belt and the strategic targets of Torness and any major city with a University being a target, unfortunately the central belt of Scotland from west to east would be one of the first places to be completely wiped off the face of the earth during a full-on nuclear exchange. 

Perhaps all the folk on this thread displaying such a fervour for use of nukes or NATO intervention on the ground to satisfy their Armchair Generals fetishisation of warfare might consider this first. 

I'd like anyone advocating nuclear conflict to watch the film Threads.

Absolutely terrifying watch that.

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, trotter said:

Us, the US or France are the only Western countries that possess them (I'm ignoring Israel for obvious reasons). You can't let it go, so if Russia uses them, there will be a retaliatory strike, probably not at Moscow, but certainly at their missile fields to ensure they can't do it again. But an attack on Russia itself will be an escalation into end times. There is no way to negotiate with nukes, it's why I wish we could dis-invent the ******* things. Nuclear war isn't 'winnable', it's just a matter of who racks up the higher body count before everyone is dead. 

👍

[Francis Albert]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The £2 million we know about makes him in the thrall of the Kremlin.

Bunking off to Lebedev's Italian castle in the middle of the Salisbury poisoning makes him dubious.

Enobling Lebedev months later.....the stench 

£2m???. If Boris did anything to make him in the thrall to Russia or its oligarchs for  a small fraction of the price of a small London flat then Boris is even stupider than I imagined.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Francis Albert

[indianajones]

Pretty terrifying stuff to be honest. 

 

 

[1971fozzy]

That EU statement just out - oooooft.

 

[Cade]

"right, see if youz dae anyhink, im gonnae nuke yez aw likeskay but"

 

Aye Vlad, whatever pal.

 

We'll not be firing the first shot. We'll wait for you to attack NATO then dogpile you.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

4 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

That EU statement just out - oooooft.

 

Yep, not messing about - closing down airspace to Russians (which was already in progress), muzzling RT and Sputnik, and hitting Lukashenko economically.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

10 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I'd like anyone advocating nuclear conflict to watch the film Threads.

Absolutely terrifying watch that.

Or try The Road (Cormac McCarthy book) or film. Surviving a nuclear exchange would be much much worse than dying in it.

[redjambo]

So, Putin's aim to have everybody start to worry about the possibility of nuclear war, and thus try to weaken the resolve of those supporting Ukraine, is working to some degree. It was a predictable move. However, as I said before, all it does in reality is show how weak a position he is currently in. He would never have hinted at it if the invasion was going well.

 

The aim now should be to back him slowly into a situation where he is removed by an internal putsch or he comes to his senses. Not too fast though, for obvious reasons.

[pablo]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

Meanwhile NL, Slovenia, Lithuania & Poland ( which last time I looked , are in the EU) are piling in with aid. 

In less than a week , Germany has totally changed its policy on defence aid to Ukraine and its own defence spending policy. In less than a week

SWIFT has been denied to Russia.

 

Meanwhile the Fabulous Brexit Boys (eg Hannan & Farage)  have been hammered for their support of Putin - a man who is threatening total nuclear annihilation for millions. 

This is your reminder that the brexit  Leave campaign was paid for by Putin and delivered by a bunch of traitors. 

 

A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss now and again. For the likes of yourself, it wouldn't matter if Britain single handedly defeated Putin and liberated the Ukraine. You'd actually hate that. It's great that Germany have found a backbone, but we're doing our bit too. 

 

 

We do need to unconditionally offer asylum to Ukrainians though. We should do that immediately.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

So, Putin's aim to have everybody start to worry about the possibility of nuclear war, and thus try to weaken the resolve of those supporting Ukraine, is working to some degree.

I honestly don’t see that it’s worked at all for him (see latest EU actions). Don’t think this forced Ukraine to the negotiations table either.

[Tazio]

This is an interesting read 

 

[Pap]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Or try The Road (Cormac McCarthy book) or film. Surviving a nuclear exchange would be much much worse than dying in it.

 

I'll raise you, When the Wind Blows.

😭

[indianajones]

Liz Truss supports 'volunteers' from the UK who want to fly over to Ukraine and help with the fight. 

 

Shes almost as dangerous as Putin ffs. What a numpty. 

[Cruyff]

54 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I think what might save the world is that in small comments and opinions I have seen in the mass media, there were doubts about he Putin and his objectives. He was allowed to go  a certain distance but will be stopped. My feeling watching some of the news was that he would only be allowed to go so far, it was also discreetly suggested that  any removal would be of a permanent manner.

He's not got enough troops and equipment to hold ground won in Ukraine nevermind occupy, control and Police a Country the size of France. It's clear he and his commanders have made a massive misjudgement or, he thought he'd have enough to take Kyiv and the whole Country would fall from there. 

 

Now that his objectives seem up in smoke, if he retreats, he's done as President so his only other option may be using some sort of tactical weapon on Kyiv to save face but again, at home and internationally that may make things worse.

 

Nato and China will be pissing themselves at Putin. He's having his kegs breeked in Ukraine.

[redjambo]

Just now, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

I honestly don’t see that it’s worked at all for him (see latest EU actions). Don’t think this forced Ukraine to the negotiations table either.

 

Sorry, I should have been more precise. It appears to have currently taken over a portion of the debate on social media. As you rightly say, it very probably won't affect how other governments react, and as for the Ukrainian government itself, the only thing the threat would do is make them more resolute.

[Costanza]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Or try The Road (Cormac McCarthy book) or film. Surviving a nuclear exchange would be much much worse than dying in it.

I love that book. The writing about what is ostensibly an apocalypse is absolutely beautiful.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Liz Truss supports 'volunteers' from the UK who want to fly over to Ukraine and help with the fight. 

 

Shes almost as dangerous as Putin ffs. What a numpty. 

 

Is it not positive that volunteers appear to be being given a green light like this? As opposed to the ones who went over to fight for the Kurdish YPG against ISIS and were then prosecuted on their return?

[The Mighty Thor]

9 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Liz Truss supports 'volunteers' from the UK who want to fly over to Ukraine and help with the fight. 

 

Shes almost as dangerous as Putin ffs. What a numpty. 

Insta account looking good though 

 

 

[Pap]

That's the EU now sending weapons to Ukraine.

 

Upping the ante a good bit. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pap

[Cade]

Even if Putin "wins" and conquers all of Ukraine, he still loses as sanction won't be lifted.

 

I don't understand his endgame here at all.

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Is it not positive that volunteers appear to be being given a green light like this? As opposed to the ones who went over to fight for the Kurdish YPG against ISIS and were then prosecuted on their return?

 

I wouldn't say it should be encouraged by the UK govt considering Putin has said the West should not get involved and has threatened serious consequences if we do. 

 

All it takes is for some ex squaddy to go over, get shot in his DPM gear and thats Putins evidence of foreign interference (boots on the ground).

 

Very irresponsible from her imo. 

[Costanza]

9 minutes ago, Tazio said:

This is an interesting read 

 

That is very interesting. I wonder if folk like Peter Hitchens and George Galloway who have been banging on about Nazi's in Ukraine with their soft soaping of Russia have referenced this guy. Ahem.

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

A bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss now and again. For the likes of yourself, it wouldn't matter if Britain single handedly defeated Putin and liberated the Ukraine. You'd actually hate that. It's great that Germany have found a backbone, but we're doing our bit too. 

 

 

We do need to unconditionally offer asylum to Ukrainians though. We should do that immediately.

Bull shit.

Perfectly happy to acknowledge UKs contribution - which is vast over recent  years in terms of training & support so spare me the lecture.

Nobody was even bloody talking about brexit when FA came on to stir the shit - and he deliberately went out of context to do it. If he wanted to attack Germany/Italy  for their lack of support I'd be 100% in agreement - but he didn't : he tried  to say it was the EU dragging it's feet when it bloody wasn't. 

 

Happy to support your last para , 100%. 

 

[1971fozzy]

BP exiting Russian market now.

[Don Dan]

Putin may well lash out if he thinks he is being defeated and humiliated. His only option in the face of this pending humiliation is to use a nuclear strike. His orders to ready defensive nuclear forces due to perceived threats is following his rhetoric before he invaded Ukraine. 
My fear is he may well fire a nuclear warhead on a target and quite possibly Kyiv. 
He is literally a wounded bear and is highly unpredictable.

[Vlad Magic]

38 minutes ago, trotter said:

Us, the US or France are the only Western countries that possess them (I'm ignoring Israel for obvious reasons). You can't let it go, so if Russia uses them, there will be a retaliatory strike, probably not at Moscow, but certainly at their missile fields to ensure they can't do it again. But an attack on Russia itself will be an escalation into end times. There is no way to negotiate with nukes, it's why I wish we could dis-invent the ******* things. Nuclear war isn't 'winnable', it's just a matter of who racks up the higher body count before everyone is dead. 

Like a game of tic tac toe. Or noughts and crosses 😇

[Victorian]

BP wipes it's arse with it's £20bn share certificate in Rosneft and posts it to Putin.  Air Mail.  Might be a delivery delay.

[maggieb]

35 minutes ago, trotter said:

Us, the US or France are the only Western countries that possess them (I'm ignoring Israel for obvious reasons). You can't let it go, so if Russia uses them, there will be a retaliatory strike, probably not at Moscow, but certainly at their missile fields to ensure they can't do it again. But an attack on Russia itself will be an escalation into end times. There is no way to negotiate with nukes, it's why I wish we could dis-invent the ******* things. Nuclear war isn't 'winnable', it's just a matter of who racks up the higher body count before everyone is dead. 

Ah trotter , can you pop around for a pint please ? I’ve been trying to explain exactly this…all I get is ,the don’t be silly chat, a wee bit of backup will do ?

 

ah ffs , just realised that’s what the Ukrainian people need and please God they get it soon 🤞🏻

[mrmarkus1981_1]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Even if Putin "wins" and conquers all of Ukraine, he still loses as sanction won't be lifted.

 

I don't understand his endgame here at all.

Someone said it earlier in the thread but I think he is near end of reign/life and is just throwing his 'weight' about, spoiling for a scrap before he goes 🤷‍♂️

[Cade]

"I believe the entire world is ganging up on me!"

"Nobody is ganging up on you"

"Yes but what if you do, one day?"
"That's not going to happen"

"Aye well I'm going to make sure Ukraine can't be part of that gang by invading them"

"Eat sanctions, shite boy"
"SEE, I WAS RIGHT, YOU ARE ALL GANGING UP ON ME"