Russia Invades Ukraine

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

15 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry, I should have been more precise. It appears to have currently taken over a portion of the debate on social media. As you rightly say, it very probably won't affect how other governments react, and as for the Ukrainian government itself, the only thing the threat would do is make them more resolute.

 

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

I wouldn't say it should be encouraged by the UK govt considering Putin has said the West should not get involved and has threatened serious consequences if we do. 

 

All it takes is for some ex squaddy to go over, get shot in his DPM gear and thats Putins evidence of foreign interference (boots on the ground).

 

Very irresponsible from her imo. 

 

If that concerns you, you're not going to like Ukraine's new International Brigade then, nor the French Foreign Legion's decision I mentioned earlier. My impression was that she wasn't encouraging such volunteers, just saying that if that was their choice then she wouldn't stand against them. Which, with the position she holds, was effectively a signal that they wouldn't get prosecuted here for taking part in the war as volunteers. Which, I hasten to add, many argue should have also been the case for those supporting the YPG while they were fighting ISIS.

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Bull shit.

Perfectly happy to acknowledge UKs contribution - which is vast over recent  years in terms of training & support so spare me the lecture.

Nobody was even bloody talking about brexit when FA came on to stir the shit - and he deliberately went out of context to do it. If he wanted to attack Germany/Italy  for their lack of support I'd be 100% in agreement - but he didn't : he tried  to say it was the EU dragging it's feet when it bloody wasn't. 

 

Happy to support your last para , 100%. 

 

The EU wasn't dragging its feet? An attempt to get the EU to act on Swift was vetoed by Germany Italy and Hungary. Tusk himself described it as shameful. Fortunately it didn't drag its feet for long.

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

If that concerns you, you're not going to like Ukraine's new International Brigade then, nor the French Foreign Legion's decision I mentioned earlier. My impression was that she wasn't encouraging such volunteers, just saying that if that was their choice then she wouldn't stand against them. Which, with the position she holds, was effectively a signal that they wouldn't get prosecuted here for taking part in the war as volunteers. Which, I hasten to add, many argue should have also been the case for those supporting the YPG while they were fighting ISIS.

 

She said she 'supports them if thats what they want to do'. Easily taken as encouragement and pretty washy from her which isn't a surprise i suppose. Either way, i honestly cant see it as anything else other than irresponsible given the enemy has threatened a nuclear attack. 

 

Slightly different situations in the middle east seen as they dont have the capabilities of flattening a major city with the press of a button.

 

I am not against it by the way. Its just a terrifying situation. 

 

 

[redjambo]

13 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Bull shit.

Perfectly happy to acknowledge UKs contribution - which is vast over recent  years in terms of training & support so spare me the lecture.

Nobody was even bloody talking about brexit when FA came on to stir the shit - and he deliberately went out of context to do it. If he wanted to attack Germany/Italy  for their lack of support I'd be 100% in agreement - but he didn't : he tried  to say it was the EU dragging it's feet when it bloody wasn't. 

 

Happy to support your last para , 100%. 

 

 

Sorry for keeping the thread off the main subject, but what you're describing illustrates the approach of many to the EU - that it acts in affairs like these as a single globular entity. It tries to when it can, but only after reaching consensus on affairs over which individual countries have control. The airspace issue here amply illustrates, in the same way that the closing of borders during Covid did, that individual members have significant power over their own jurisdictions, as we also did when a member. The EU only "dragged its feet" on the airspace issue because it had to wait to gain the consensus it needed before acting. Various of the members went much more quickly. Nice to see the UK so quick off the mark on this issue though.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

First real life confirmation I’ve seen that the flight bans are being implemented.

[Footballfirst]

17 minutes ago, Victorian said:

BP wipes it's arse with it's £20bn share certificate in Rosneft and posts it to Putin.  Air Mail.  Might be a delivery delay.

BP is to offload its 19.75% stake in Russian state-owned oil firm Rosneft after Russia's "act of aggression in Ukraine".

The oil giant had come under pressure from the UK government to make the move since Thursday's invasion.

It has held the shareholding in the Russian company since 2013.

BP chief executive Bernard Looney has resigned "with immediate effect" from the Rosneft board, as has fellow BP-nominated director Bod Dudley.

Mr Looney had been on the Rosneft board since 2020, alongside its chairman Igor Sechin, who is a close friend and ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The PA News agency reported Mr Looney was in Russia as recently as October, when he appeared on a panel with Mr Putin, which he later described as a "privilege".

Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng spoke to the BP boss on Friday and left him in "no doubt about the seriousness of government concerns about BP's overexposure to Russian interests" according to an official.

 

Now if only the Tories would get rid of all it's "overexposure to Russian interests" ...... but ..... but .... but !!!

[Jambo_jim2001]

I hope to hell this never plays out in any way or form.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWqWAi_H_9o

[Japan Jambo]

28 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Insta account looking good though 

 

 

 

jeez pretty narcissistic 

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The EU wasn't dragging its feet? An attempt to get the EU to act on Swift was vetoed by Germany Italy and Hungary. Tusk himself described it as shameful. Fortunately it didn't drag its feet for long.

 

Come on, FA, you just blatantly contradicted yourself there. It wasn't the EU which dragged its feet, it was, as you expressed so well yourself, a small number of particular member countries who did. They got there in the end. It's actually very positive to see that the EU puts so much emphasis on gaining consensus, but you may not see it that way.

 

Anyway, back to Ukraine... (and not hopefully a 10-page thread of Francis Albert's usual semantic contortions)

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry for keeping the thread off the main subject, but what you're describing illustrates the approach of many to the EU - that it acts in affairs like these as a single globular entity. It tries to when it can, but only after reaching consensus on affairs over which individual countries have control. The airspace issue here amply illustrates, in the same way that the closing of borders during Covid did, that individual members have significant power over their own jurisdictions, as we also did when a member. The EU only "dragged its feet" on the airspace issue because it had to wait to gain the consensus it needed before acting. Various of the members went much more quickly. Nice to see the UK so quick off the mark on this issue though.

When I said the EU was dragging its feet I knew it was because the EU needs unanimity from its members. 

[dobmisterdobster]

4 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

First real life confirmation I’ve seen that the flight bans are being implemented.

 

"Getting a lot of replies suggesting this flight should crash, or someone should shoot it down."

 

Social media was a mistake.

[Tazio]

4 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

First real life confirmation I’ve seen that the flight bans are being implemented.

On the flight tracker app it’s already marked as “diverted to Moscow” 

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

I hope to hell this never plays out in any way or form.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWqWAi_H_9o

 

As I said, Putin's calculated mention of nuclear weapons is having the desired effect on social media conversations.

Edited February 27, 2022 by redjambo

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

"Getting a lot of replies suggesting this flight should crash, or someone should shoot it down."

 

Social media was a mistake.

 

 

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

When I said the EU was dragging its feet I knew it was because the EU needs unanimity from its members. 

 

Good. And I'm sure you also appreciate that this might take a wee bit longer than one country making a decision on its own, and that if anyone "holds out" from that unanimity, it is not the fault of the EU as a whole that they do so.

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Come on, FA, you just blatantly contradicted yourself there. It wasn't the EU which dragged its feet, it was, as you expressed so well yourself, a small number of particular member countries who did. They got there in the end. It's actually very positive to see that the EU puts so much emphasis on gaining consensus, but you may not see it that way.

 

Anyway, back to Ukraine... (and not hopefully a 10-page thread of Francis Albert's usual semantic contortions)

Contradiction? If an organisation needs unanimity of members whose interests differ then it will likely drag its feet. As you say in this case fortunately not for long.

 

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

I hope to hell this never plays out in any way or form.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWqWAi_H_9o

 

Two years ago we were presented with something that profoundly challenged our idea of what is possible.  How life can be blighted so completely.  It was hard to conceive of.

 

Nuclear war is another one of those inconceivable constructs that numbs the senses.  The culmination of all things in their present form.  

 

As someone said,  you're better off as a puff of smoke.  Big time.

 

A lot has happened in 4 days.  A lot.  Most of it quite bad and I include the results of the praiseworthy efforts of the free world.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Victorian

[Francis Albert]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Good. And I'm sure you also appreciate that this might take a wee bit longer than one country making a decision on its own, and that if anyone "holds out" from that unanimity, it is not the fault of the EU as a whole that they do so.

No. But is maybe a weakness of the EU in dealing with things like Ukraine if it has pretensions to be a sort of world power.

[The Real Maroonblood]

48 minutes ago, Pap said:

 

I'll raise you, When the Wind Blows.

😭

My son saw it with the school when it was released.

It sacred the shit out of him.

I watched it later and I can understand why.

Mind boggling.

 

[trotter]

23 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

She said she 'supports them if thats what they want to do'. Easily taken as encouragement and pretty washy from her which isn't a surprise i suppose. Either way, i honestly cant see it as anything else other than irresponsible given the enemy has threatened a nuclear attack. 

 

Slightly different situations in the middle east seen as they dont have the capabilities of flattening a major city with the press of a button.

 

I am not against it by the way. Its just a terrifying situation. 

 

 

Would you not agree that threatening a nuclear attack is somewhat more irresponsible than stating there won't be repercussions if people decide to stand up for what is right?

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No. But is maybe a weakness of the EU in dealing with things like Ukraine if it has pretensions to be a sort of world power.

The EU a trading bloc. A club of members. 

The notion it views itself as a 'world power' is disingenuous. Its precisely the kind of utter shite that powered the Russian sponsored Brexit you mentioned earlier. 

[Francis Albert]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

The EU a trading bloc. A club of members. 

The notion it views itself as a 'world power' is disingenuous. Its precisely the kind of utter shite that powered the Russian sponsored Brexit you mentioned earlier. 

The EU is just a trading bloc? Really?

[Cade]

Kyiv is now totally surrounded and officially under siege.

 

 

[indianajones]

4 minutes ago, trotter said:

Would you not agree that threatening a nuclear attack is somewhat more irresponsible than stating there won't be repercussions if people decide to stand up for what is right?

 

Obviously.

 

Its a fragile situation and we dont need Truss saying that anyone who fancies a fight can go over the the Ukraine and join in is all im saying. IF it comes to it, we have professionals for that job ffs. 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No. But is maybe a weakness of the EU in dealing with things like Ukraine if it has pretensions to be a sort of world power.

 

It was you who changed the idea of consensus to one of unanimity. Are you telling me that if all the EU countries had decided to close their airspace except Slovenia, that it would have made any difference at all? Nope. The EU couldn't have been able to say that Russian planes were excluded from all EU airspace, but the effect would have been the same. And meanwhile, in the background, the other countries would have been saying to Slovenia "Why not?" and trying to alleviate any concerns they might have had.

 

On SWIFT, if all the EU countries apart from Romania had been in favour of SWIFT restrictions for Russian entities, do you think it wouldn't have gone ahead? Codswallop. It was far better to speak as one entity, but it wasn't necessary. All it needed was the biggest players to agree. As I said, the EU likes to speak as one when it has consensus (not necessarily unanimity), but unless you're touting for the EU to be one globular nation, it has to do things the way it does, taking into consideration the input of all its members.

 

Anyway, I've had enough of this. I've seen you gleefully suck others into mind-numbing pedantic debate and I have better things to do like go and have my tea.

[dobmisterdobster]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Kyiv is now totally surrounded and officially under siege.

 

 

 

Where is the Ghost of Kyiv when you need him?

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It was you who changed the idea of consensus to one of unanimity. Are you telling me that if all the EU countries had decided to close their airspace except Slovenia, that it would have made any difference at all? Nope. The EU couldn't have been able to say that Russian planes were excluded from all EU airspace, but the effect would have been the same. And meanwhile, in the background, the other countries would have been saying to Slovenia "Why not?" and trying to alleviate any concerns they might have had.

 

On SWIFT, if all the EU countries apart from Romania had been in favour of SWIFT restrictions for Russian entities, do you think it wouldn't have gone ahead? Codswallop. It was far better to speak as one entity, but it wasn't necessary. All it needed was the biggest players to agree. As I said, the EU likes to speak as one when it has consensus (not necessarily unanimity), but unless you're touting for the EU to be one globular nation, it has to do things the way it does, taking into consideration the input of all its members.

 

Anyway, I've had enough of this. I've seen you gleefully suck others into mind-numbing pedantic debate and I have better things to do like go and have my tea.

Thank you for indulging in such a long if incoherent response. And it wasn't me who decided the EU requires unanimity.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Francis Albert

[hughesie27]

11 minutes ago, Cade said:

Kyiv is now totally surrounded and officially under siege.

 

 

Wasn't tonight the spoken about deadline for Russia to take control? Could see a lot of action in the next few hours if they are serious.

[NANOJAMBO]

 

[joondalupjambo]

52 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Putin may well lash out if he thinks he is being defeated and humiliated. His only option in the face of this pending humiliation is to use a nuclear strike. His orders to ready defensive nuclear forces due to perceived threats is following his rhetoric before he invaded Ukraine. 
My fear is he may well fire a nuclear warhead on a target and quite possibly Kyiv. 
He is literally a wounded bear and is highly unpredictable.

Funny I said similar on the day this started saying, "Do not poke the Bear with a stick".  His arguements at the here and now are with Ukraine but by goading him too much he may become too irrational, get frustrated and order something we all regret. It has to be a balancing act at the moment and all politicians need to tread warily with both words and actions without being seen to be weak.  Tough, very tough especially for some of them with less diplomatic skills than others.

 

Saying he has gone full Tonto or suggesting we would be happy for our people to volunteer and go to Ukraine to fight are a couple of recent examples of less than sensible things to say given how much social media is in play these days.  To me that is poking the Bear.

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Funny I said similar on the day this started saying, "Do not poke the Bear with a stick".  His arguements at the here and now are with Ukraine but by goading him too much he may become too irrational, get frustrated and order something we all regret. It has to be a balancing act at the moment and all politicians need to tread warily with both words and actions without being seen to be weak.  Tough, very tough especially for some of them with less diplomatic skills than others.

 

Saying he has gone full Tonto or suggesting we would be happy for our people to volunteer and go to Ukraine to fight are a couple of recent examples of less than sensible things to say given how much social media is in play these days.  To me that is poking the Bear.

I posted further up the thread that if it continues to go against the Russian forces he’ll order one last large gesture before cancelling the operation. Probably one town getting everything they can muster as a punishment. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

Belarus are going to be pariah’s if this ends bad for Putin. Here’s hoping.

[joondalupjambo]

How hard is it to stop a Russian, State owned tanker from docking in Orkney?  Can no politician or senior business Executive make the decision because it is the weekend?  

 

One thing is that the terminal staff could just down tools and strike thus leaving nobody to service the tankers visit.  Hopefully it is refused access on Monday when the docket gets signed off in triplicate.

[jb102]

Or unload the oil and don’t pay for it. 

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, jb102 said:

Or unload the oil and don’t pay for it. 

i believe it is going to orkney to collect oil rather than offload some

[Malinga the Swinga]

World on brink of war, down to actions of one power mad maniac, and we have the usual two three eejits whose sole focus in the whole thing is 'blame the Tories'.

So myopic in what they see it's both laughable and sad.

[Japan Jambo]

.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Japan Jambo

[Spirit Of Excellence]

2 hours ago, Costanza said:

I'd like anyone advocating nuclear conflict to watch the film Threads.

Absolutely terrifying watch that.

The image of Ruth Beckett's daughter being born into the world by way of Ruth selling her body to a rando on the street in exchange for a couple of dead and possibly radioactive rats haunts me to this day. 

I'm in awe at the defiance of the Ukrainians. 

[kila]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

World on brink of war, down to actions of one power mad maniac, and we have the usual two three eejits whose sole focus in the whole thing is 'blame the Tories'.

So myopic in what they see it's both laughable and sad.

 

Who should we blame for the Russian influence being accepted/encouraged in the UK then?

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Who should we blame for the Russian influence being accepted/encouraged in the UK then?

 

Exactly.

[Cade]

Nowt to do with the Tories.

Except all their Russian donors.

And Russkies in the Lords.

And the Tories having been in power for 12 years and opened up London as a playground for rich Russians to embezzle their cash.

And the CIA stating that the British Government is fundamentally compromised because of all of this.

Nothing to see here, comrade!

 

 

 

[Japan Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Spirit Of Excellence said:

The image of Ruth Beckett's daughter being born into the world by way of Ruth selling her body to a rando on the street in exchange for a couple of dead and possibly radioactive rats haunts me to this day. 

I'm in awe at the defiance of the Ukrainians. 

 

haven't seen that film for years, just watching it again on Tubi

[graygo]

English FA saying they won't play football at any age group or level against Russia for the foreseeable future.

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

English FA saying they won't play football at any age group or level against Russia for the foreseeable future.

FIFA ban russia playing at home and they need to compete under football union of russia

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Insta account looking good though 

 

 

Chin up, tits out; that's the girl!

 

Wearing the maroon, though.

 

28 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

World on brink of war, down to actions of one power mad maniac, and we have the usual two three eejits whose sole focus in the whole thing is 'blame the Tories'.

So myopic in what they see it's both laughable and sad.

So myopic in what you don't see.

 

Yes, there's a power mad maniac but, to counter his aggressive acts, I would far rather we had someone in Downing Street who wasn't bought and paid for by that power mad maniac.

[I P Knightley]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

FIFA ban russia playing at home and they need to compete under football union of russia

...but they're still Russia.

 

FIFA and the Olympic Committee are as bent as each other.

[Francis Albert]

37 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Who should we blame for the Russian influence being accepted/encouraged in the UK then?

 

The Russian influence long predates Tory governments. As does the Arab influence with its nasty regimes. 

[graygo]

20 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

FIFA ban russia playing at home and they need to compete under football union of russia

 

I'm sure folk know what I meant but thanks for the correction anyway. 👍

[Footballfirst]

Over to you Home Secretary