Russia Invades Ukraine

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Ali Velshi reports on four separate instances of Kremlin-connected, extremely wealthy Russians with ties to the oil industry who have died by suicide since Russia's war in Ukraine began. 

 

 

 

There's definately something going on, they all can't be a coincidence, surely.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 hours ago, Cade said:

Either way, he's clearly not right.

And that's possibly a bad thing. A dying man with a fragile state of mind won't think twice about launching nukes. What does he care? He'll be deid soon anyhow. Not his problem.

 

Yip, that's my fear as well, he's on his way out and will try and take the rest of us with him.

[Dawnrazor]

31 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yip, that's my fear as well, he's on his way out and will try and take the rest of us with him.

I honestly don't think so, I think he wants a legacy, statues, public holidays ect, he wants to be remembered as great leader of his country like Stalin (not my idea of a "great leader" before anyone says it), I don't think he waats to go down as the one who cost Russia the results of a nuclear war. I hope I'm correct. 

[Cade]

11 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I honestly don't think so, I think he wants a legacy, statues, public holidays ect, he wants to be remembered as great leader of his country like Stalin (not my idea of a "great leader" before anyone says it), I don't think he waats to go down as the one who cost Russia the results of a nuclear war. I hope I'm correct. 

 

But his actions have already undone all the progress made since the fall of the USSR.

Russia had a chance to become a normal, responsible member of the international community.

It has vast natural resources to offer and could have become a very rich trading nation, sharing technology and building friendly relations with everyone.

Maybe if he'd gone down that road, neighbouring nations would have a tough choice between joining the EU or the Russian Federation.

 

But instead he's dragged it backwards to the dark days of Stalin.

Interfering in foreign elections, invading neighbours on flimsy excuses, propping up dictators all over the world.

Internationally isolated.

Economically ruined.

Any and all good will long gone.

 

And what does he have to show for it?

 

[Dawnrazor]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

But his actions have already undone all the progress made since the fall of the USSR.

Russia had a chance to become a normal, responsible member of the international community.

It has vast natural resources to offer and could have become a very rich trading nation, sharing technology and building friendly relations with everyone.

Maybe if he'd gone down that road, neighbouring nations would have a tough choice between joining the EU or the Russian Federation.

 

But instead he's dragged it backwards to the dark days of Stalin.

Interfering in foreign elections, invading neighbours on flimsy excuses, propping up dictators all over the world.

Internationally isolated.

Economically ruined.

Any and all good will long gone.

 

And what does he have to show for it?

 

I don't disagree with any of that, imo he thinks he's doing the right thing for his own legacy rather than the good of Russia or it's people.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

43 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't disagree with any of that, imo he thinks he's doing the right thing for his own legacy rather than the good of Russia or it's people.

 

That's the sign of a dictator, let's hope he croaks before the penny drops and he finds out just how much his own people hate him.

I know some latest polls in Russia say his popularity has increased, it's the same with any dictator, they enjoy almost 100% popularity........until the end, when they realise it was all just false adulation.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

I get one of those YouTube channels in my recommendations where people in Russia are interviewed in the street and when asked about Putin about a third say they like him another third say they would like a change sooner rather later but the last third refuse to answer, you can see the fear in them. It is that group who hopefully game the confidence to rise against him. 

A huge majority say they don't want the war in Ukraine to continue though and know how damaging it is becoming.

[Cade]

Ukraine hits the command centre of the Russian 49th army.

 

2 (more) generals killed, a third in critical condition.

 

 

[Pap]

"The top investigative body in Russia is looking at whether the SAS is "organising sabotage" in Ukraine."

 

 

 

 

 

[New Town Loafer]

49 minutes ago, Cade said:

Ukraine hits the command centre of the Russian 49th army.

 

2 (more) generals killed, a third in critical condition.

 

 

There’s no way the regular Ukrainian army is responsible for this level of sabotage. Foreign influence. 

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

There’s no way the regular Ukrainian army is responsible for this level of sabotage. Foreign influence. 

 

The command centre was located close to the front line in Russian-occupied Kherson Oblast. Of course the Ukrainian army had the capacity to mount an attack on it.

 

 

[Pap]

It could have been a tip off from a Western government that came from a satellite image.

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

There’s no way the regular Ukrainian army is responsible for this level of sabotage. Foreign influence

 

You not been following events clearly.

 

Ukraine is secretive about what it does and how. But it has it's own communications network and satellites to find targets and plenty bombs to hit them. 

 

And Russian forces have insecure communications that are easily hacked and generals on front line due to incompetence of its forces.

 

Quite simple. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Pap said:

It could have been a tip off from a Western government that came from a satellite image.

 

Is being helped but Ukraine has it's own satellites and communications. Top of the pile in its networks. 

[New Town Loafer]

13 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The command centre was located close to the front line in Russian-occupied Kherson Oblast. Of course the Ukrainian army had the capacity to mount an attack on it.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You not been following events clearly.

 

Ukraine is secretive about what it does and how. But it has it's own communications network and satellites to find targets and plenty bombs to hit them. 

 

And Russian forces have insecure communications that are easily hacked and generals on front line due to incompetence of its forces.

 

Quite simple. 

I meant generally, throughout the war. Unless the Russians are spectacularly poorly led it feels like there are outside influences on the ground.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

 

I meant generally, throughout the war. Unless the Russians are spectacularly poorly led it feels like there are outside influences on the ground.

 

From all accounts, they are. Add to that a professional well-trained, and now reasonably well-armed, Ukrainian army that has been preparing for a more widescale Russian invasion since 2014, assisted by a population on the ground assisting it in any way it can, it's no great surprise that the Ukrainians are holding their own and fighting back.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

 

I meant generally, throughout the war. Unless the Russians are spectacularly poorly led it feels like there are outside influences on the ground.

 

There is that, but it's also the fact that the Ukraine Russia invaded in 2022 is a completely different beast from the Ukraine Russia invaded in 2014, the Ukrainians haven't been sitting by doing nothing over the last 8 years, It's not only Russia which has been planning this invasion, Ukraine knew it was only matter of time before Russia invaded again.

[Mikey1874]

15 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

 

I meant generally, throughout the war. Unless the Russians are spectacularly poorly led it feels like there are outside influences on the ground.

 

Yes definitely. Getting intelligence from US mainly.

[redjambo]

 

[highlandjambo3]

1 hour ago, Pap said:

"The top investigative body in Russia is looking at whether the SAS is "organising sabotage" in Ukraine."

 

 

 

 

 

That won’t be happening.

[Ked]

We stand with Ukraine seems a bit hollow.

Add to this the continued monies for the Russians fuel .

That's difficult of course but this arming them ....

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/23/ukraine-france-and-germany-sents-arms-to-russia-despite-eu-blockade-16521171/

[Footballfirst]

14 minutes ago, Ked said:

We stand with Ukraine seems a bit hollow.

Add to this the continued monies for the Russians fuel .

That's difficult of course but this arming them ....

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/23/ukraine-france-and-germany-sents-arms-to-russia-despite-eu-blockade-16521171/

Like everything else, when there is money to be made, companies will find a way round any embargoes.

 

The fuel use will be diminishing week on week, particularly by Germany who is looking to end its oil imports by the end of the year.  Gas will take a bit longer, but it will gradually generate more pressure on the Russian economy.

 

If what the Russians appear to be suggesting about controlling the south as well as the east of Ukraine, the war will still be going on when the EU imports of oil and gas do come to an end.

 

Nato continues to fight its proxy war with Russia and as long as the western governments continue to provide the weapons then the war will go on. Those same governments are currently prepared to fight to the last (Ukrainian) man and woman. 

[Mikey1874]

The problem though currently is there can't be serious  negotiations. 

 

Russia needs to accept an end to its move further in to Ukraine and the atrocities make it impossible for Ukraine to concede much. 

 

So it will go on. 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Like everything else, when there is money to be made, companies will find a way round any embargoes.

 

The fuel use will be diminishing week on week, particularly by Germany who is looking to end its oil imports by the end of the year.  Gas will take a bit longer, but it will gradually generate more pressure on the Russian economy.

 

If what the Russians appear to be suggesting about controlling the south as well as the east of Ukraine, the war will still be going on when the EU imports of oil and gas do come to an end.

 

Nato continues to fight its proxy war with Russia and as long as the western governments continue to provide the weapons then the war will go on. Those same governments are currently prepared to fight to the last (Ukrainian) man and woman. 

We will see.

These arms were sold right up until the invasion and after the annexing of Crimea.

I'd suppose that intelligence would have had an idea that this was on the horizon.

Of course what you say about making money is true.

But it was facilitated by 10 governments in the EU so just laying the blame at greedy companies isn't the whole picture.

And also the UK although on a much smaller scale.

Add into our government and its involvement with the Russian mafia.

Yes it's money driven but we are complicit (the west) .

And I suppose I'm being idealistic its about time the arms industry was scrutinised like never before.

And it's just not Ukraine which seems to be the fashionable cause.

The UK and France to name but two.

supply the tools for murder in plenty other horror shows.

Nobody will care in 10 years time when our industry of murder supplies another Putin it will just be the actions of a madman.

 

It's kind of comparable to the gun situation  in the US .

Yes it's individuals who do the killing but there's such an obvious way to dramatically reduce that.

 

 

[Ked]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The problem though currently is there can't be serious  negotiations. 

 

Russia needs to accept an end to its move further in to Ukraine and the atrocities make it impossible for Ukraine to concede much. 

 

So it will go on. 

Brutal conflict echos for years and sometimes centuries.

The exception to that rule perhaps is Germanys role in WW2.

Certainly in the former Soviet bloc many Eastern Europeans do not hold a good view of Russians.

[Cruyff]

57 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The problem though currently is there can't be serious  negotiations. 

 

Russia needs to accept an end to its move further in to Ukraine and the atrocities make it impossible for Ukraine to concede much. 

 

So it will go on. 

Agree. There's no end in sight to this. It looks like it's escalating. 

[Class of 75]

5 hours ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I get one of those YouTube channels in my recommendations where people in Russia are interviewed in the street and when asked about Putin about a third say they like him another third say they would like a change sooner rather later but the last third refuse to answer, you can see the fear in them. It is that group who hopefully game the confidence to rise against him. 

A huge majority say they don't want the war in Ukraine to continue though and know how damaging it is becoming.

Russians unfortunately like to be led. They will never stand up, and follow their  leaders like lemmings. 

[Ked]

Just now, Class of 75 said:

Russians unfortunately like to be led. They will never stand up, and follow their  leaders like lemmings. 

You can pretty much point that finger at China,USA currently.

Germany recently.

The threat of violence is powerful and its easy to be brave when living without that threat.

The USA is more sophisticated and try to remember it wasn't long ago we bombed the shite out of Iraq.

And televised it with a name.

Shock and Awe.

 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Russians unfortunately like to be led. They will never stand up, and follow their  leaders like lemmings. 

Like the revolution against the tsars.

 

Call Russia out by all means its actions are brutal.

But lemmings ffs.

In that case humans are all lemmings .

Following or failing to stand up against their own countries crimes.

Please tell me what you did to stop our involvement in our governments crimes.

 

Sorry but that post has irked me.

 

[Class of 75]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

Like the revolution against the tsars.

 

Call Russia out by all means its actions are brutal.

But lemmings ffs.

In that case humans are all lemmings .

Following or failing to stand up against their own countries crimes.

Please tell me what you did to stop our involvement in our governments crimes.

 

Sorry but that post has irked me.

 

Didn't mean to irk you sorry. I know what they did in 1905 and 1918/19 I just feel that in the last few years they could have done more to question what is being done by their government. However, I appreciate that they can only react to what they see, and they are not getting to see the truth

Edited April 23, 2022 by Class of 75

[Debut 4]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There is that, but it's also the fact that the Ukraine Russia invaded in 2022 is a completely different beast from the Ukraine Russia invaded in 2014, the Ukrainians haven't been sitting by doing nothing over the last 8 years, It's not only Russia which has been planning this invasion, Ukraine knew it was only matter of time before Russia invaded again.

Yip, it’s been mentioned many times.  It’s not just the Ukraine that knew though.  I repeated the story before, that a couple of Lithuanian lads I worked beside in 2015 said this was coming and that they were glad to be in the UK.  

 

Most countries in that part of the world have known for years about Russia’s ambition.  
 

 

 

[Ked]

15 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Didn't mean to irk you sorry. I know what they did in 1905 and 1918/19 I just feel that in the last few years they could have done more to question what is being done by their government. However, I appreciate that they can only react to what they see, and they are not getting to see the truth

Sorry buddy.

I get idealistic about the whole shit show and our hypocrisy.

And I'm no better.

Must have high blood pressure tonight.

👍

[Class of 75]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Sorry buddy.

I get idealistic about the whole shit show and our hypocrisy.

And I'm no better.

Must have high blood pressure tonight.

👍

No worries my friend.👍

[Mikey1874]

From the bunker, the steel plant blockaded

 

 

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

12 hours ago, Pap said:

It could have been a tip off from a Western government that came from a satellite image.

Most likely just eyes on ground giving intel, mobile phones really are useful in war.

[redjambo]

Explosions reported in Tiraspol (Transnistria), while earlier today 2 oil storage depots in Bryansk, Russia, were hit by explosions (unconfirmed reports state that these were caused by Ukrainian drones). Looks as if the Ukrainians may well be taking the fight to the Russians.

[redjambo]

In the meantime, there have been two train derailments within 2 days in Russia, in Belgorod and near Bryansk, both near the Ukrainian border.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-bryansk-train-derails-railway-track-damaged-photos-1700512

[Cade]

Sweden and Finland to submit simultaneous applications to join NATO in as little as three or four weeks time.

 

 

[Don Dan]

These boys and similar are always flying around the Ukrainian Skys and on the borders of Russia 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Imaman

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, Imaman said:

These boys and similar are always flying around the Ukrainian Skys and on the borders of Russia 

 

Ukrainian skies, nope (for now), but along the borders of Ukrainian airspace, indubitably.

 

[OBE]

13 hours ago, redjambo said:

Explosions reported in Tiraspol (Transnistria), while earlier today 2 oil storage depots in Bryansk, Russia, were hit by explosions (unconfirmed reports state that these were caused by Ukrainian drones). Looks as if the Ukrainians may well be taking the fight to the Russians.

 

Bryansk just, 246 miles from Moscow, the windae's in Red 🟥, may start rattlin very shortly...

[indianajones]

We are ****ed. 

 

Scary times. 

[Pap]

"Moscow says it is effectively at war with NATO - and has warned that Western weapons are inflaming the conflict in Ukraine."

 

It's been like this for a while now. I think this is another hint that Russia isnt doing as well as it wants.

[OBE]

45 minutes ago, indianajones said:

We are ****ed. 

 

Scary times. 

 

We?

[indianajones]

7 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

We?

 

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

If Russia was genuinely at war with NATO then they'd be fecked. 

 

They're just peeved that the West is doing what the Russians themselves have done since 2014 by arming and funding the war in the East of Ukraine. 

 

American rhetoric in the last few days hasn't been helpful, mind.

 

The devastation WW3 would cause would be horrendous. 

 

[OBE]

20 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

 

The devastation WW3 would cause would be horrendous. 

 

 

Aye, could be the quickest in history...best way to go would be a nuke down one's own lum...

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, OBE said:

 

Aye, could be the quickest in history...best way to go would be a nuke down one's own lum...

 

Just looking more and more likely now. Rhetoric ramping up.

[OBE]

30 minutes ago, jonesy said:

If Russia was genuinely at war with NATO then they'd be fecked. 

 

They're just peeved that the West is doing what the Russians themselves have done since 2014 by arming and funding the war in the East of Ukraine. 

 

American rhetoric in the last few days hasn't been helpful, mind.

 

War Poker...

[Boab]

30 minutes ago, jonesy said:

If Russia was genuinely at war with NATO then they'd be fecked. 

 

They're just peeved that the West is doing what the Russians themselves have done since 2014 by arming and funding the war in the East of Ukraine. 

 

American rhetoric in the last few days hasn't been helpful, mind.

It hasn’t helped at all. The US saying they want to weaken Russia to the point that they can’t do things like now, is a red rag to a bull….or a bear !

What did they expect the response to be ?

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

It hasn’t helped at all. The US saying they want to weaken Russia to the point that they can’t do things like now, is a red rag to a bull….or a bear !

What did they expect the response to be ?

 

Its almost as if they want it to be honest. The response that is.