Russia Invades Ukraine

[Ked]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Crimea is occupied not lost. 

 

It is true there is some degree of willingness, not just by you to meet Russian demands. 

 

But Crimea is still vulnerable to attack. Putin may regret not agreeing to Ukrainian suggestion to give independence to Crimea and occupied Dombass. 

I don't want to meet Russian demands....????

Don't know how you came to that conclusion.However I would like the war to be resolved as the impact on Europe especially fuel wise isn't handy .

I was answering Reds post about how to help Russia save face.

I don't think that's possible without slapping Ukraines face.

Occupied/lost Crimea was already the mark imo for tougher sanctions.

 

There is bad blood now and imo a change internally Russian wise seems the only solution.

 

[Ked]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Russia needs to leave Ukraine completely and then find and put everyone who has committed crimes on trial. 

 

And compensate the families of everyone who died and pay to rebuild Ukraine. 

 

Putin can stay in power then. 

In a parallel universe maybe

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, Ked said:

In a parallel universe maybe

 

You may not support Russia but you allow or excuse them when you question their defeat being the only good option. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Some folk on here really have a high opinion of themselves. Do they actually believe that Putin gives a **** what a few jumped up Hearts supporters believe Russia should or shouldn't do.

Then when someone dares to point an opposite point of view, they're a BOT or a Russian sympathiser, when in fact, they're just a Hearts supporter who has their own opinion.

It's like a parody on here.

 

[Ked]

7 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You may not support Russia but you allow or excuse them when you question their defeat being the only good option. 

Please explain how you expect to defeat them?

As another poster has said this has look of 10 to 15 years of conflict.

You are thousands of miles away from it.

I answered that imo only an internal coup would bring an end to that.

I allow or excuse nothing.

I have not once made an excuse for them.

 

[Ked]

26 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Some folk on here really have a high opinion of themselves. Do they actually believe that Putin gives a **** what a few jumped up Hearts supporters believe Russia should or shouldn't do.

Then when someone dares to point an opposite point of view, they're a BOT or a Russian sympathiser, when in fact, they're just a Hearts supporter who has their own opinion.

It's like a parody on here.

 

It's not real.

Some actually wanting to expand the war from the comfort of their laptop.

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Some folk on here really have a high opinion of themselves. Do they actually believe that Putin gives a **** what a few jumped up Hearts supporters believe Russia should or shouldn't do.

Then when someone dares to point an opposite point of view, they're a BOT or a Russian sympathiser, when in fact, they're just a Hearts supporter who has their own opinion.

It's like a parody on here.

 

 

What a very peculiar thing to say. No, no-one on here will be thinking that. We're just all expressing our views, and if you want to join in, rather than just having a pot shot at fellow Hearts fans, then please do so.

[redjambo]

43 minutes ago, Ked said:

Please explain how you expect to defeat them?

As another poster has said this has look of 10 to 15 years of conflict.

You are thousands of miles away from it.

I answered that imo only an internal coup would bring an end to that.

I allow or excuse nothing.

I have not once made an excuse for them.

 

 

That's one opinion, an opinion I happen to disagree with. It will be a much shorter-term conflict than that.

[Jeffros Furios]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

What a very peculiar thing to say. No, no-one on here hat will be thinking that. We're just all expressing our views, and if you want to join in, rather than just having a pot shot at fellow Hearts fans, then please do so.

Aye wee Vlad is going to nuke Tynecastle , the wee gremlin ain't happy with kickback 

[Ulysses]

13 hours ago, Ked said:

10 -15 years.

Sore one for Ukraine.

I'd have hoped something sooner from within .

It's hard to tell how strong Putins grip is though .

 

 

There isn't really any alternative.  NATO and the EU have to work on the assumption that no disruption will come from inside Russia.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Putin definitely reads KB and bases decisions on foreign policy depending on what's said on here. Thinking otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

Привет, товарищ.

[Ked]

19 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

That's one opinion, an opinion I happen to disagree with. It will be a much shorter-term conflict than that.

Maybe.

But it's been going on in a smaller scale since the occupation of Crimea.

I can only look at what history has shown involving Russia.

And it points to a long conflict .

 

 

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

When did Ukraine suggest independence for these places?

 

Putin has recognised two of them as independent. Crimea is now part of Russia. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/21/russia-to-recognise-ukraine-breakaway-region-kremlin-confirms  An attack on Crimea is an attack on Russia,attacking it might turn a special military operation into a full scale war. What would be the point in making Crimea independent anyway they have already expressed a clear wish to be a part of Russia. 

 

Crimea (and Sevastopol), Luhansk and Donetsk expressed a clear democratic wish to be part of an independent Ukraine.  The results in Crimea (and Sevastopol) could potentially be open to argument because of a low turnout.  But that's not the case in Donetsk or Luhansk.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Some folk on here really have a high opinion of themselves. Do they actually believe that Putin gives a **** what a few jumped up Hearts supporters believe Russia should or shouldn't do.

Then when someone dares to point an opposite point of view, they're a BOT or a Russian sympathiser, when in fact, they're just a Hearts supporter who has their own opinion.

It's like a parody on here.

 

 

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

There isn't really any alternative.  NATO and the EU have to work on the assumption that no disruption will come from inside Russia.

Unfortunately.

For the people that it affects the most.

I have no real knowledge of what's going on in Russian politics .

This isn't ending anytime soon.

[Ulysses]

29 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

That's one opinion, an opinion I happen to disagree with. It will be a much shorter-term conflict than that.

 

I'm suggesting that it is in the interests of NATO and the EU to make it a longer conflict than that.  Ukraine can't prevail in the short term; logically, it follows that the only way to end the conflict in the short term is a Russian win.  That is the worst of all outcomes for Ukraine, and for the easternmost members of NATO and the EU.  Therefore, the best strategy NATO and the EU can adopt is to prolong the conflict.  They can't do that with "boots on the ground", but they can help with money and equipment.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

13 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Only a handful of countries accept that Crimea is part of Russia. As far as the rest are concerned, it is illegally occupied.

 

The mechanism and results of the 2014 Referendum have also been rejected by most countries.

 

You are a one.

 

I mean to be completely pedantic saying that Crimea is part of Russia is like saying Scotland is part of England. Crimea is a Republic in the Russian Federation that tried and failed to break away, in part due to the absolutely brutal siege of Grozny.

 

As for "invading Crimea," how exactly would that happen? Across the Black Sea, all the way through Georgia, and up and over the Caucuses?

 

What could possibly happen is that if the Russian military is overextended enough in Ukraine, the various separatists that are already organized around Russia could somehow coordinate an uprising such that the Russian military couldn't deal with it. But those are very different situations than Ukraine, which sits on the border with several NATO countries who can walk arms across the border in a pinch.

 

Aside from the small fact that NATO arms crossing into Russian territory is generally agreed as the thing that might cause Russia to start actually firing nukes.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Some folk on here really have a high opinion of themselves. Do they actually believe that Putin gives a **** what a few jumped up Hearts supporters believe Russia should or shouldn't do.

Then when someone dares to point an opposite point of view, they're a BOT or a Russian sympathiser, when in fact, they're just a Hearts supporter who has their own opinion.

It's like a parody on here.

 

I don't think anyone believes they are talking directly to Putin. It's their opinion of what they think or would like Putin to do . It's the same with any subject. 

 

I'd say your post is more self indulgent than any written word on this thread. You can put the trumpet away, now.

 

 

 

 

[Mister T]

7 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

Putin definitely reads KB and bases decisions on foreign policy depending on what's said on here. Thinking otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

Привет, товарищ.

I heard it was Romanov that reads KB and then he faxes the best bits to Putin so he doesn't have to scroll through all the dross and petty arguments. 

[coconut doug]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Crimea (and Sevastopol), Luhansk and Donetsk expressed a clear democratic wish to be part of an independent Ukraine.  The results in Crimea (and Sevastopol) could potentially be open to argument because of a low turnout.  But that's not the case in Donetsk or Luhansk.

 

Prior to this in 1990 around 70% of all Ukrainians voted to remain in the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was broken up and land with comparatively few ties to Ukraine was now deemed to be part of the Ukraine. That was Crimea.

 

  You are correct in saying people wanted to remain a part of Ukraine. They did so in a multi-option opinion survey in which the options for greater local autonomy proved the most popular. I can't find any reference to a referendum which showed the results you describe so i would be interested to see it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums  Very few wanted union with Russia or the status quo. This was the democratic basis for the Minsk agreements which Ukraine failed to implement preferring to imprison thousands, torture and murder hundreds and shell civilian targets instead. This proved to be the catalyst for a big change in public opinion according to other western based polls referenced on the same website with a German newspaper survey showing 94.6% in favour of separation immediately after the attacks on civilians. According to this article sentiment changed after the murders of Russians and Trades unionists in Odessa https://consortiumnews.com/2022/04/30/curfew-for-anniversary-of-odessa-massacre-that-sparked-rebellion/ . Some of that sentiment must remain since the Ukrainians have imposed a curfew on the anniversary of the murders.

 

James mates ITN report at the time demonstrated the behaviour of the Ukrainians and the sentiments of locals in Mariopul at the time. https://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-09/mariupol-seethes-with-anger-after-a-day-of-deadly-clashes/

Mates' last sentence sums it up well. "It is a curios way to persuade ordinary people they have a future in Ukraine" 

 

  

[Jeffros Furios]

The above poster  thinks Russia is liberating Ukraine from nazis and he thought the Bucha killings were staged by the Ukranians .  Probably over 25,000 civilians killed by Russians in 2 months yet he still peddles pro Russian garbage .

 

[SectionDJambo]

There is one indisputable fact about this conflict in Ukraine.

Russia repeatedly said they had no intention of invading Ukraine. They were only having a military exercise on there own territory.

They lied.

They then came up with the "special operation" tag to further lie.

Why should anyone believe anything they say now about the West and Ukraine stitching them up with misinformation about massacres, other civilian deaths, bombing of hospitals and deportation of Ukrainian people to Russia?

It's history repeating itself from the 1930s and 40s, except the National Socialists are Russian this time.

 

[redjambo]

11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'm suggesting that it is in the interests of NATO and the EU to make it a longer conflict than that.  Ukraine can't prevail in the short term; logically, it follows that the only way to end the conflict in the short term is a Russian win.  That is the worst of all outcomes for Ukraine, and for the easternmost members of NATO and the EU.  Therefore, the best strategy NATO and the EU can adopt is to prolong the conflict.  They can't do that with "boots on the ground", but they can help with money and equipment.

 

I'm not so sure about this, Uly. There's a lot of military support coming in to Ukraine, and it has a different feel to it than the usual "balanced" war of attrition. I can see Ukraine pushing Russia back to pre-invasion borders within a few months. They probably won't recapture Crimea or the "breakaway republics" (I'm a bit more unsure about the latter), and so they will be back to square 1, except for a lot of folk having been killed, injured and displaced in the interim. After that, I can see the conflict entering, or re-entering, the phase you're talking about, very similar to the 2014-2022 situation.

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Jeffros Furios said:

The above poster  thinks Russia is liberating Ukraine from nazis and he thought the Bucha killings were staged by the Ukranians .  Probably over 25,000 civilians killed by Russians in 2 months yet he still peddles pro Russian garbage .

 

 

I'm not peddling anything. I post things i think are relevant and sometimes i challenge things others have said if i think they are wrong or misleading e.g your claim that the Russians have killed 25,000 civilians. Statista and other sites put the current figure at around 3,000 which is considerably less than the number of civilians killed in the last 8 years from Ukrainian shelling of ethnic Russian areas. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/ Of course a great many of that 3,000 or so have been killed directly by Ukrainian forces and indirectly as they have been using civilians as human shields.

       I have seen no definitive proof of what happened at Bucha but i have seen plenty of contradictory evidence including recent forensic evidence claiming that many Bucha residents were killed by flechetes. I don't know what happened and never claimed that i did. I merely questioned the circumstantial evidence put forward by some as being fact.

 

    I do not and did not support the invasion but that is not to say that i don't understand why it happened i.e. i have a different view from that which says Putin is mad and wants reinstate the Soviet Union. The videos i have recently posted show how people feel about their situation and how that sentiment has changed over the years. People have changed their minds about wanting to be a part of Ukraine because of how they have been treated. The extent to which these people may have been oppressed by Nazis may be debateable but there are many people who identify with Nazism and many in Eastern Ukraine who perceive their oppressors as being Nazis or fascists.

   I can show you many testimonies of people who claim they were used as humans hields in Mariopul, in particular. Up until yesterday they continued hide behind civilians in Azovstal I can show you a video of captured mercenaries admitting they killed civilians and used them as human shields. I can show you a video of a Ukrainian soldier admitting his unit shot the captured Russian soldiers. I have seen Ukrainian citizens claiming they witnessed summary executions and rapes by Russian soldiers and had their houses destroyed and belongings stolen. All of these are convincing to me and are just what you might expect in a war situation.

    Choosing as you do to ardently support one side against the other without ever once considering that there may be opposing arguments suggests to me that it is you who is the victim of propaganda here and not me. The name calling and misrepresentation do you no favours either.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

 

After considering all of the available evidence, I'm on the Russian's side too, tbh. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I'm not peddling anything. I post things i think are relevant and sometimes i challenge things others have said if i think they are wrong or misleading e.g your claim that the Russians have killed 25,000 civilians. Statista and other sites put the current figure at around 3,000 which is considerably less than the number of civilians killed in the last 8 years from Ukrainian shelling of ethnic Russian areas. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/ Of course a great many of that 3,000 or so have been killed directly by Ukrainian forces and indirectly as they have been using civilians as human shields.

       I have seen no definitive proof of what happened at Bucha but i have seen plenty of contradictory evidence including recent forensic evidence claiming that many Bucha residents were killed by flechetes. I don't know what happened and never claimed that i did. I merely questioned the circumstantial evidence put forward by some as being fact.

 

    I do not and did not support the invasion but that is not to say that i don't understand why it happened i.e. i have a different view from that which says Putin is mad and wants reinstate the Soviet Union. The videos i have recently posted show how people feel about their situation and how that sentiment has changed over the years. People have changed their minds about wanting to be a part of Ukraine because of how they have been treated. The extent to which these people may have been oppressed by Nazis may be debateable but there are many people who identify with Nazism and many in Eastern Ukraine who perceive their oppressors as being Nazis or fascists.

   I can show you many testimonies of people who claim they were used as humans hields in Mariopul, in particular. Up until yesterday they continued hide behind civilians in Azovstal I can show you a video of captured mercenaries admitting they killed civilians and used them as human shields. I can show you a video of a Ukrainian soldier admitting his unit shot the captured Russian soldiers. I have seen Ukrainian citizens claiming they witnessed summary executions and rapes by Russian soldiers and had their houses destroyed and belongings stolen. All of these are convincing to me and are just what you might expect in a war situation.

    Choosing as you do to ardently support one side against the other without ever once considering that there may be opposing arguments suggests to me that it is you who is the victim of propaganda here and not me. The name calling and misrepresentation do you no favours either.

 

Very good posting. 

[Cade]

Moscow trolls all over this thread now.

Disappointing.

 

I love to play devil's advocate but there really is no such thing in the case of this unwarranted Russian invasion.

There is no excuse.

There is no reason.

There is no ambiguity.

There is no validity.

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

Moscow trolls all over this thread now.

Disappointing.

 

It's called discussion and difference of opinion. I'm not sure why that should be disappointing.

 

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

I love to play devil's advocate but there really is no such thing in the case of this unwarranted Russian invasion.

 

Only when you decide, righto? 

 

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

There is no excuse. 

The Russians have given plenty. 

 

There is no reason.

Apart from all of the ones the Russians have given. 

 

There is no ambiguity.

There's a shitload of ambiguity. The first casualty of war... blah blah...

 

There is no validity.

If you base your opinion solely Western propaganda, sorry, 100 percent truthful and accurate news reporting and totally impartial internet content. 

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Are some people seriously believing what a Russian regime under the rule of a tyrant who poisons his opponents says. If you are trolling though it says a lot about you!

[milky_26]

it looks like Lavrov has went full nutter with nonsense. accoring to him hitler had jewish blood and some of the worst anti-semites are jewish

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-61296682

[Herbert.]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

it looks like Lavrov has went full nutter with nonsense. accoring to him hitler had jewish blood and some of the worst anti-semites are jewish

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-61296682

 

 

Seemingly true. Hitlers grandad on his dad's side was part jew seemingly, also the hitlers came from a part of Austria that was big on incest. 

 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

I'm not peddling anything. I post things i think are relevant and sometimes i challenge things others have said if i think they are wrong or misleading e.g your claim that the Russians have killed 25,000 civilians. Statista and other sites put the current figure at around 3,000 which is considerably less than the number of civilians killed in the last 8 years from Ukrainian shelling of ethnic Russian areas. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/ Of course a great many of that 3,000 or so have been killed directly by Ukrainian forces and indirectly as they have been using civilians as human shields.

 

 

Statista gives the figure from OHCHR which also states 

 

Quote

Most of the civilian casualties recorded were caused by the use of explosive weapons with a wide impact area, including shelling from heavy artillery and multiple launch rocket systems, and missile and air strikes.

 

Which kinda goes against your next point unless of course you think that the Ukrainians have been using human shields against heavy artillery and air strikes. Now, I've never been in a war, but I can say with a high degree of certainty that that's probably not worth the hassle. Not just that, but their own heavy artillery and air strikes....

 

I think the more obvious answer here is that you find and put together exactly what you want to see/read whilst disregarding any and all other relevant information that would discredit what you want to believe. Just to further that point, on that very link you posted you seem to have failed to add in that it comes with a pretty huge and relevant caveat. Don't worry, I'll post it for you.

 

Quote

OHCHR believes that the actual figures are considerably higher, as the receipt of information from some locations where intense hostilities have been going on has been delayed and many reports are still pending corroboration.

 

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll go away and watch a video somewhere and you'll hear exactly what you want to hear, then come on here and criticise everyone for believing the opposite without a single shred of irony. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Moscow trolls all over this thread now.

Disappointing.

And of course the uni-troll. 

 

Any topic. Any subject. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

26 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Are some people seriously believing what a Russian regime under the rule of a tyrant who poisons his opponents says. If you are trolling though it says a lot about you!

 

Some folks heids only button up one side, bud, others button up both.

 

21 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Hitler had jewish blood and some of the worst anti-semites are jewish

 

Knew it! 

[Unknown user]

33 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

Seemingly true. Hitlers grandad on his dad's side was part jew seemingly, also the hitlers came from a part of Austria that was big on incest. 

It's been pretty much debunked. It isn't known 100% who his grandfather was, but none of the candidates were jewish except for this one guy who's basically only rumoured to have existed.

Although the birth certificate doesn't say, Hitler's dad Alois said that his dad was Johann Hiedler, and he changed his surname from his mother's (with the small familiar error we know)

If he hadn't changed his name, it would have been Adolf Schicklgruber terrorising Europe.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Smithee

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

41 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Some folks heids only button up one side, bud, others button up both.

 

 

Knew it! 

If you were to give an opinion that opposed the government line in Moscow you wouldn't have a head left to button up, bud.

[il Duce McTarkin]

27 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

If you were to give an opinion that opposed the government line in Moscow you wouldn't have a head left to button up, bud.

 

Correct, it's a well known fact that the Russian state summarily executes every regular Ivan that disagrees with them and it's in no way hyperbolic to suggest such a thing.

[coconut doug]

3 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Very good posting. 

 

Cheers James, i appreciate the comment. I suspect you understand the difficulty in getting your point over when so many want to make personal attacks and misrepresent what you say. I think in many cases we are the bigger men here.😏

[il Duce McTarkin]

10 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Cheers James, i appreciate the comment. I suspect you understand the difficulty in getting your point over when so many want to make personal attacks and misrepresent what you say. I think in many cases we are the bigger men here.😏

 

Correct. James is the real victim here, doug. You can certainly know how to see straight through all the bullshit.

 

[coconut doug]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Moscow trolls all over this thread now.

Disappointing.

 

I love to play devil's advocate but there really is no such thing in the case of this unwarranted Russian invasion.

There is no excuse.

There is no reason.

There is no ambiguity.

There is no validity.

 

You are confusing this special military operation to denazify parts of Ukraine with unwarranted invasions and attacks on Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and the lack of help for Yemen, Palestine, The Rohingha and others. There were no WMD in Iraq. The Libyan's did not go on a viagra fuelled raping spree. There were no babies emptied out of incubators in Kuwait. The Syrians did not use chemical weapons. The West has not intervened in human rights violations in Palestine. How many times does this have to happen before you spot a pattern?

 

The West has left all these countries/people in ruins and now it's Ukraine's turn. Big profits for the arms manufacturers though. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

35 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

Correct, it's a well known fact that the Russian state summarily executes every regular Ivan that disagrees with them and it's in no way hyperbolic to suggest such a thing.

How's Navalny getting on? 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Just now, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

How's Navalny getting on? 

 

He still has his head.

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 minute ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

He still has his head.

 

The novichok dose a little bit low perhaps?

[Jeffros Furios]

31 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Cheers James, i appreciate the comment. I suspect you understand the difficulty in getting your point over when so many want to make personal attacks and misrepresent what you say. I think in many cases we are the bigger men here.😏

[Jeffros Furios]

9 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

You are confusing this special military operation to denazify parts of Ukraine with unwarranted invasions and attacks on Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and the lack of help for Yemen, Palestine, The Rohingha and others. There were no WMD in Iraq. The Libyan's did not go on a viagra fuelled raping spree. There were no babies emptied out of incubators in Kuwait. The Syrians did not use chemical weapons. The West has not intervened in human rights violations in Palestine. How many times does this have to happen before you spot a pattern?

 

The West has left all these countries/people in ruins and now it's Ukraine's turn. Big profits for the arms manufacturers though. 

You definitely watch too much Russia Today 

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

The novichok dose a little bit low perhaps?

 

It must have been. Better luck next time.

 

3 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

You definitely watch too much Russia Today 

 

You definately watch too much Western brainwashing TV amd arebprobably a CIA bot.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

It must have been. Better luck next time.

 

 

 

The Russians will need to work on improving the product just as you will need to improve on your trolling, never mind you have two others on here who can give you some help on that 🤣

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

The Russians will need to work on improving the product just as you will need to improve on your trolling, never mind you have two others on here who can give you some help on that 🤣

 

No trolling here, bud, just facts.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

11 minutes ago, Dirk McClaymore said:

 

No trolling here, bud, just facts.

As David Icke once said 😄

[il Duce McTarkin]

18 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

As David Icke once said 😄

 

No he didn't.