Russia Invades Ukraine

[highlandjambo3]

23 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Simple solution, don't buy any Swiss made ammo or equipment again from them. Hit them where it'll hurt them, in their bank account.

They can ram their Army knives as well 😄

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

They can ram their Army knives as well 😄

 

Best thing about the Swiss army knife is the Billy Connolly stand-up routine about them.  

[highlandjambo3]

22 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I spent 8 years in 7th Armoured brigade (desert rats) and, commanders higher up in the chain always emphasised getting inside the enemy’s “information loop”…….that loop is the time it takes the enemy to receive information and, more critically, to act on it.  Basically it only works if junior commanders on the ground are able to identify *THEN EXPLOIT a situation to their benefit rather than identify a situation, report it and wait to be told what to do (the Russian way)…..liken the Russian way is like trying to do a 3 point turn in an oil tanker.  There  is absolutely no way their junior commanders have the leeway to impute any flexibility in their daily current mission.  The Russian military will have learned a lot (at their expense) but highly likely to be able to adapt in such a short period…..particularly with their decades of ingrained storm drills they use in training exercises.

 

* A key point of success in a highly mobile war.

[Maple Leaf]

On 26/04/2022 at 14:29, SwindonJambo said:

There's very little endearing about that country..Neutral my arse. It's the biggest tax haven, safe haven for bent bread and enabler of dodgy regimes on the planet.

 

They can stick their cuckoo clocks up their arses.

 

If anyone is looking for additional reasons to dislike the Swiss, their air defences shot down numerous Allied bombers during the war, mostly British, killing several dozen airmen.  The bombers had inadvertently strayed into Swiss airspace. The Swiss used German manufactured aircraft for air defence, M-109s to be exact.

 

The other side of the coin is that, toward the end of the war, American bombers accidentally bombed Swiss border towns on two or three occasions, killing dozens of Swiss citizens.

[Ked]

Again if we are boycotting Swiss products for not allowing Germany to arm the Ukranians should we boycott Germany and France for arming the Russians despite it not being allowed by their own  rules with billions of Euros worth of weaponry.

 

I

[jack D and coke]

I don’t watch it too closely it all feels surreal to me. Then sometimes I see this…

We’re surely not teetering on this insanity…

Everything that the world needs to fix and these utter ****wits are talking about dropping the bombs to end it all…

 

[Cade]

Boris fecks it up (yet again) by revealing that Ukrainian troops are receiving training in use of anti-aircraft systems in Poland and in using NATO standard tanks in the UK.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Liz Truss banging on about how vital it is that Ukraine win the war while simultaneously doing **** all to help

Edited April 28, 2022 by Dusk_Till_Dawn

[indianajones]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Liz Truss banging on about how vital it is that Ukraine win the war while simultaneously doing **** all to help

 

She just makes it worse. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, indianajones said:

 

She just makes it worse. 

Like most politicians, completely unqualified for the job she’s in 

[Boab]

9 hours ago, Ked said:

Again if we are boycotting Swiss products for not allowing Germany to arm the Ukranians should we boycott Germany and France for arming the Russians despite it not being allowed by their own  rules with billions of Euros worth of weaponry.

 

I

In the world of arms manufacture and sale, you can’t have morals…or friends !

[JFK-1]

24 minutes ago, Boab said:

In the world of arms manufacture and sale, you can’t have morals…or friends !

 

 

[SuperstarSteve]

Not sure if it’s being mentioned or if anyone’s heard similar but it’s sounding like Poland are gearing up for something kicking off soon. They are forcing men (I say force but no idea what the consequences are to saying no) to pick up rifles for practice and separating them from their family’s. I believe it’s for 22 days only. 

 

Polish guy who owns the company next to us has been informed his worker who went on holiday didn’t make it out airport and won’t be back on the date he was supposed to return. 

 

He was due to visit next month but has cancelled over fears his business won’t survive if he’s caught up in the same situation. 

[Boab]

15 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Was thinking about this the other day.

 

When you see foreign governments, like Russia for example, do you think Lavrov is a specialist in foreign affairs and stays in that role, or do they ruffle them around like we do. To me, shifting portfolios seems like madness as you can end up changing the direction of policy so rapidly. No wonder countries like China and Russia don't respect our leaders when they change so often.

It’s not so much changing, it’s the thought that that idiot is the Foreign Sec.

A scary thought right now.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

35 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Was thinking about this the other day.

 

When you see foreign governments, like Russia for example, do you think Lavrov is a specialist in foreign affairs and stays in that role, or do they ruffle them around like we do. To me, shifting portfolios seems like madness as you can end up changing the direction of policy so rapidly. No wonder countries like China and Russia don't respect our leaders when they change so often.

Take that massive prick Chris Grayling as an example. What did he know about the Ministry of Justice? Absolutely nothing, as proven by his attempt to half privatise probation. Then he moves to Transport, which he ****s up as well. He’s an expert in neither and there’s probably nobody in the world with the right qualifications to go from overseeing justice to overseeing transport overnight. They’re completely different fields. But because of how cabinets are set up, inept ministers just shuffle from brief to brief - hence how Liz ****ing Truss ends up running defence 

[Greenbank2]

Read this morning that despite all the sanctions, Russia has DOUBLED it's revenue from oil and gas since the start of this conflict. Courtesy of increased pricing. This whole situation really has gone to shit. Outside North America and the EU, other than some diplomatic sabre rattling, the rest of the world doesn't care. Russia is economically very strong and Putin has unprecedented support courtesy of his propaganda machine, in his own country. Russia is militarily in a different league from Ukraine and whether we acknowledge it or not, the "west" is fighting a proxy war by supplying equipment. Ukraine is not "pushing back" Russian forces, but is inflicting damage to Russian units including equipment and men. These will simply be replaced ad infinitum. At best, this will go on for years, until Ukraine is reduced to rubble. The refugees will never go home as there will be nothing left to return to. There are only 2 ways out. Either the UN insists that the west and Zeleynski sit down with Russia with absolutely no pre-conditions and start a dialogue on what it will take to stop this, or we drift towards world war 3.

 

To all of those  who advocate some sort of Western/UN/EU/UK intervention - wake up and smell the coffee, because that only ends in you and yours (and me) ending up being dead. And that escalation will happen very very quickly. Should the status quo be maintained, my opinion, and it is only that, is that Russia will take the full territory along the Black Sea coast opening up a corridor to Transnistria which has been a Russian protectorate for years. I was there in 2007 and prevented from entering or traveling through Transnistria by the regional militia - make no mistake, this region does not operate as part of Moldova and never has. BTW, Moldova is akin to a 19th century Victorian village. It is Russia in all but name. Will the West use the conquering of Odessa as a trigger to escalate their involvement? Who knows.

 

I think our governments know that Russia - whatever you may think of them - is a different beast from the Cold War and is again a world power with massive natural resources, a re-built economy and military and has decided it is time to stop dancing to the post USSR, American tune and rules originating from the EU and USA. But "we" have painted ourselves into a corner by sponsoring a proxy war and supporting a version of Ukraine that we are told is a westernized democracy politically and culturally. It's not. By breaking out of their cocoon, Putin has shown that he has reinvented Russia as a global bully and the scary thing is that unlike the cold war, this is not about political ideology but is about demonstrating that there is a new school bully. So get used to it. As for the other big swinging dicks, China and to a lesser extent India, they don't care - as long as school bully doesn't turn its focus to them.

 

I know there is an attitude which is "we don't give in to Bullies". Fair enough, but how much of Europe will end up a wasteland by pursuing conflict?

 

I don't know what will happen, but I do think that the world order has changed for the next generation. As long as "we" cling on to the old order, or try and protect it, the higher the risk we won't be around to see the next one.

[Boab]

6 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

Read this morning that despite all the sanctions, Russia has DOUBLED it's revenue from oil and gas since the start of this conflict. Courtesy of increased pricing. This whole situation really has gone to shit. Outside North America and the EU, other than some diplomatic sabre rattling, the rest of the world doesn't care. Russia is economically very strong and Putin has unprecedented support courtesy of his propaganda machine, in his own country. Russia is militarily in a different league from Ukraine and whether we acknowledge it or not, the "west" is fighting a proxy war by supplying equipment. Ukraine is not "pushing back" Russian forces, but is inflicting damage to Russian units including equipment and men. These will simply be replaced ad infinitum. At best, this will go on for years, until Ukraine is reduced to rubble. The refugees will never go home as there will be nothing left to return to. There are only 2 ways out. Either the UN insists that the west and Zeleynski sit down with Russia with absolutely no pre-conditions and start a dialogue on what it will take to stop this, or we drift towards world war 3.

 

To all of those  who advocate some sort of Western/UN/EU/UK intervention - wake up and smell the coffee, because that only ends in you and yours (and me) ending up being dead. And that escalation will happen very very quickly. Should the status quo be maintained, my opinion, and it is only that, is that Russia will take the full territory along the Black Sea coast opening up a corridor to Transnistria which has been a Russian protectorate for years. I was there in 2007 and prevented from entering or traveling through Transnistria by the regional militia - make no mistake, this region does not operate as part of Moldova and never has. BTW, Moldova is akin to a 19th century Victorian village. It is Russia in all but name. Will the West use the conquering of Odessa as a trigger to escalate their involvement? Who knows.

 

I think our governments know that Russia - whatever you may think of them - is a different beast from the Cold War and is again a world power with massive natural resources, a re-built economy and military and has decided it is time to stop dancing to the post USSR, American tune and rules originating from the EU and USA. But "we" have painted ourselves into a corner by sponsoring a proxy war and supporting a version of Ukraine that we are told is a westernized democracy politically and culturally. It's not. By breaking out of their cocoon, Putin has shown that he has reinvented Russia as a global bully and the scary thing is that unlike the cold war, this is not about political ideology but is about demonstrating that there is a new school bully. So get used to it. As for the other big swinging dicks, China and to a lesser extent India, they don't care - as long as school bully doesn't turn its focus to them.

 

I know there is an attitude which is "we don't give in to Bullies". Fair enough, but how much of Europe will end up a wasteland by pursuing conflict?

 

I don't know what will happen, but I do think that the world order has changed for the next generation. As long as "we" cling on to the old order, or try and protect it, the higher the risk we won't be around to see the next one.

👍
Spot on.

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

Read this morning that despite all the sanctions, Russia has DOUBLED it's revenue from oil and gas since the start of this conflict. Courtesy of increased pricing. This whole situation really has gone to shit. Outside North America and the EU, other than some diplomatic sabre rattling, the rest of the world doesn't care. Russia is economically very strong and Putin has unprecedented support courtesy of his propaganda machine, in his own country. Russia is militarily in a different league from Ukraine and whether we acknowledge it or not, the "west" is fighting a proxy war by supplying equipment. Ukraine is not "pushing back" Russian forces, but is inflicting damage to Russian units including equipment and men. These will simply be replaced ad infinitum. At best, this will go on for years, until Ukraine is reduced to rubble. The refugees will never go home as there will be nothing left to return to. There are only 2 ways out. Either the UN insists that the west and Zeleynski sit down with Russia with absolutely no pre-conditions and start a dialogue on what it will take to stop this, or we drift towards world war 3.

 

To all of those  who advocate some sort of Western/UN/EU/UK intervention - wake up and smell the coffee, because that only ends in you and yours (and me) ending up being dead. And that escalation will happen very very quickly. Should the status quo be maintained, my opinion, and it is only that, is that Russia will take the full territory along the Black Sea coast opening up a corridor to Transnistria which has been a Russian protectorate for years. I was there in 2007 and prevented from entering or traveling through Transnistria by the regional militia - make no mistake, this region does not operate as part of Moldova and never has. BTW, Moldova is akin to a 19th century Victorian village. It is Russia in all but name. Will the West use the conquering of Odessa as a trigger to escalate their involvement? Who knows.

 

I think our governments know that Russia - whatever you may think of them - is a different beast from the Cold War and is again a world power with massive natural resources, a re-built economy and military and has decided it is time to stop dancing to the post USSR, American tune and rules originating from the EU and USA. But "we" have painted ourselves into a corner by sponsoring a proxy war and supporting a version of Ukraine that we are told is a westernized democracy politically and culturally. It's not. By breaking out of their cocoon, Putin has shown that he has reinvented Russia as a global bully and the scary thing is that unlike the cold war, this is not about political ideology but is about demonstrating that there is a new school bully. So get used to it. As for the other big swinging dicks, China and to a lesser extent India, they don't care - as long as school bully doesn't turn its focus to them.

 

I know there is an attitude which is "we don't give in to Bullies". Fair enough, but how much of Europe will end up a wasteland by pursuing conflict?

 

I don't know what will happen, but I do think that the world order has changed for the next generation. As long as "we" cling on to the old order, or try and protect it, the higher the risk we won't be around to see the next one.

 

 

 

[Boab]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

 

So...just go to war with them ?

We'll win, aye ?

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Boab said:

So...just go to war with them ?

We'll win, aye ?

 

NATO is too strong for Russia to attack. And their economy is in the shit.

 

Some guy above thinks otherwise. But all the evidence is Russia is weak overall. 

 

Russia could still destroy Ukraine though. 

[XB52]

45 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

Read this morning that despite all the sanctions, Russia has DOUBLED it's revenue from oil and gas since the start of this conflict. Courtesy of increased pricing. This whole situation really has gone to shit. Outside North America and the EU, other than some diplomatic sabre rattling, the rest of the world doesn't care. Russia is economically very strong and Putin has unprecedented support courtesy of his propaganda machine, in his own country. Russia is militarily in a different league from Ukraine and whether we acknowledge it or not, the "west" is fighting a proxy war by supplying equipment. Ukraine is not "pushing back" Russian forces, but is inflicting damage to Russian units including equipment and men. These will simply be replaced ad infinitum. At best, this will go on for years, until Ukraine is reduced to rubble. The refugees will never go home as there will be nothing left to return to. There are only 2 ways out. Either the UN insists that the west and Zeleynski sit down with Russia with absolutely no pre-conditions and start a dialogue on what it will take to stop this, or we drift towards world war 3.

 

To all of those  who advocate some sort of Western/UN/EU/UK intervention - wake up and smell the coffee, because that only ends in you and yours (and me) ending up being dead. And that escalation will happen very very quickly. Should the status quo be maintained, my opinion, and it is only that, is that Russia will take the full territory along the Black Sea coast opening up a corridor to Transnistria which has been a Russian protectorate for years. I was there in 2007 and prevented from entering or traveling through Transnistria by the regional militia - make no mistake, this region does not operate as part of Moldova and never has. BTW, Moldova is akin to a 19th century Victorian village. It is Russia in all but name. Will the West use the conquering of Odessa as a trigger to escalate their involvement? Who knows.

 

I think our governments know that Russia - whatever you may think of them - is a different beast from the Cold War and is again a world power with massive natural resources, a re-built economy and military and has decided it is time to stop dancing to the post USSR, American tune and rules originating from the EU and USA. But "we" have painted ourselves into a corner by sponsoring a proxy war and supporting a version of Ukraine that we are told is a westernized democracy politically and culturally. It's not. By breaking out of their cocoon, Putin has shown that he has reinvented Russia as a global bully and the scary thing is that unlike the cold war, this is not about political ideology but is about demonstrating that there is a new school bully. So get used to it. As for the other big swinging dicks, China and to a lesser extent India, they don't care - as long as school bully doesn't turn its focus to them.

 

I know there is an attitude which is "we don't give in to Bullies". Fair enough, but how much of Europe will end up a wasteland by pursuing conflict?

 

I don't know what will happen, but I do think that the world order has changed for the next generation. As long as "we" cling on to the old order, or try and protect it, the higher the risk we won't be around to see the next one.

You seem to be just posting pro Russian propaganda. Had a look back on your posts and you were deriding people on here and western governments for saying Russia was going to invade Ukraine. 

[Cade]

NATO would win an open conflict with Russia.  

And Russia knows it.

Not only do we have far more men and equipment, but it's all of better quality. 

More advanced technology, much better troop training.

We also have a significant financial advantage.

 

Putin is just trying to take by force every non-NATO aligned nation near to Russia before they join NATO and become 100% untouchable.

He's a wee man with big dreams.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

NATO would win an open conflict with Russia.  

And Russia knows it.

Not only do we have far more men and equipment, but it's all of better quality. 

More advanced technology, much better troop training.

We also have a significant financial advantage.

 

Putin is just trying to take by force every non-NATO aligned nation near to Russia before they join NATO and become 100% untouchable.

He's a wee man with big dreams.

 

He’s full of shit and the whole nuclear weapons thing is a bluff. 

[Mikey1874]

Gas and oil imports to Europe will have ended by the end of next year.

 

It is ironic that the free market economy has assisted war. Around 1980 Ronald Reagan tried to do what the West is doing now - isolate Russia. But Margaret Thatcher and others in EU argued free trade was more important. Then the gas pipelines from Russia to Europe were built.

 

But it's a different world now. 

[Jeffros Furios]

54 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

Read this morning that despite all the sanctions, Russia has DOUBLED it's revenue from oil and gas since the start of this conflict. Courtesy of increased pricing. This whole situation really has gone to shit. Outside North America and the EU, other than some diplomatic sabre rattling, the rest of the world doesn't care. Russia is economically very strong and Putin has unprecedented support courtesy of his propaganda machine, in his own country. Russia is militarily in a different league from Ukraine and whether we acknowledge it or not, the "west" is fighting a proxy war by supplying equipment. Ukraine is not "pushing back" Russian forces, but is inflicting damage to Russian units including equipment and men. These will simply be replaced ad infinitum. At best, this will go on for years, until Ukraine is reduced to rubble. The refugees will never go home as there will be nothing left to return to. There are only 2 ways out. Either the UN insists that the west and Zeleynski sit down with Russia with absolutely no pre-conditions and start a dialogue on what it will take to stop this, or we drift towards world war 3.

 

To all of those  who advocate some sort of Western/UN/EU/UK intervention - wake up and smell the coffee, because that only ends in you and yours (and me) ending up being dead. And that escalation will happen very very quickly. Should the status quo be maintained, my opinion, and it is only that, is that Russia will take the full territory along the Black Sea coast opening up a corridor to Transnistria which has been a Russian protectorate for years. I was there in 2007 and prevented from entering or traveling through Transnistria by the regional militia - make no mistake, this region does not operate as part of Moldova and never has. BTW, Moldova is akin to a 19th century Victorian village. It is Russia in all but name. Will the West use the conquering of Odessa as a trigger to escalate their involvement? Who knows.

 

I think our governments know that Russia - whatever you may think of them - is a different beast from the Cold War and is again a world power with massive natural resources, a re-built economy and military and has decided it is time to stop dancing to the post USSR, American tune and rules originating from the EU and USA. But "we" have painted ourselves into a corner by sponsoring a proxy war and supporting a version of Ukraine that we are told is a westernized democracy politically and culturally. It's not. By breaking out of their cocoon, Putin has shown that he has reinvented Russia as a global bully and the scary thing is that unlike the cold war, this is not about political ideology but is about demonstrating that there is a new school bully. So get used to it. As for the other big swinging dicks, China and to a lesser extent India, they don't care - as long as school bully doesn't turn its focus to them.

 

I know there is an attitude which is "we don't give in to Bullies". Fair enough, but how much of Europe will end up a wasteland by pursuing conflict?

 

I don't know what will happen, but I do think that the world order has changed for the next generation. As long as "we" cling on to the old order, or try and protect it, the higher the risk we won't be around to see the next one.

Absolute bollocks 

[Boab]

22 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

NATO is too strong for Russia to attack. And their economy is in the shit.

 

Some guy above thinks otherwise. But all the evidence is Russia is weak overall. 

 

Russia could still destroy Ukraine though. 

I'm not disputing that.

It's actually more dangerous that they are are in that position as they won't back down now unless there are serious diplomatic attempts to stop this.

That's my point. Irresponsible comments by western politicians about weakening Russia to a point where they can't function militarily or clearing them out of Ukraine entirely, will only exacerbate the conflict.

If they feel that the conventional route is doomed to failure and that there is even a chance of a threat to Russia...we're ****ed !

It will take big minds and big decisions to stop this. 

The ramblings of a moron like Truss, briefed or no, won't help solve a potentially catastrophic situation.

It's easy to say he's bluffing. How far do the West go to prove that ?

[Mikey1874]

14 minutes ago, Boab said:

I'm not disputing that.

It's actually more dangerous that they are are in that position as they won't back down now unless there are serious diplomatic attempts to stop this.

That's my point. Irresponsible comments by western politicians about weakening Russia to a point where they can't function militarily or clearing them out of Ukraine entirely, will only exacerbate the conflict.

If they feel that the conventional route is doomed to failure and that there is even a chance of a threat to Russia...we're ****ed !

It will take big minds and big decisions to stop this. 

The ramblings of a moron like Truss, briefed or no, won't help solve a potentially catastrophic situation.

It's easy to say he's bluffing. How far do the West go to prove that ?

 

 

Weakening Russia is simply a change from 'free trade stops war'. 

 

The only mistake has been Russia invading Ukraine.

 

You're focussing on irrelevant matters. NATO countries have chosen to stand up to Russia. Maybe they are bit embarrassed at not stopping Russia. But the weapons provided are killing Russian soldiers so you can't get much more provocative. Except NATO is in a position of strength. 

 

All the mental statements are from Russia. Try watching their TV discussions. They want to take over Eastern Europe and go to war with NATO. Though that's probably just tv ratings they are chasing.

 

Meantime the Russian army just want to destroy Ukraine while their Government is being half arsed about it. 

[Boab]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Weakening Russia is simply a change from 'free trade stops war'. 

 

The only mistake has been Russia invading Ukraine.

 

You're focussing on irrelevant matters. NATO countries have chosen to stand up to Russia. Maybe they are bit embarrassed at not stopping Russia. But the weapons provided are killing Russian soldiers so you can't get much more provocative. Except NATO is in a position of strength. 

 

All the mental statements are from Russia. Try watching their TV discussions. They want to take over Eastern Europe and go to war with NATO. Though that's probably just tv ratings they are chasing.

 

Meantime the Russian army just want to destroy Ukraine while their Government is being half arsed about it. 

Again, not disputing that, well, apart from the bit about me focussing on irrelevant matters !

It's entirely relevant to say that they won't back down now from the position they are in now. The only way that would happen is for serious diplomatic discussions to take place. 

They won't accept a removal of gains made since 2014. No chance.

It's not appeasement now, it's about not increasing the chance of a wider conflict, one that would be devastating for everyone, with the horrible situation for Ukraine at the minute, in everyone's minds.

If sanctions will dramatically affect Russia, then why the talk of sending even more arms and aircraft to Ukraine ?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

What's the fecking point in sanctions?

 

When German, Austrian, Hungarian & Slovak energy companies are set to pay the Russians in roubles for their oil & gas.

The way it's going to be done is that these companies will pay in Euro's into Gazprom's Swiss bank account, who will then convert that money into Roubles.   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846

 

Imo this just makes a mockery of the sanctions, when there is such an easy workaround.

[Greenbank2]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

You seem to be just posting pro Russian propaganda. Had a look back on your posts and you were deriding people on here and western governments for saying Russia was going to invade Ukraine. 

I was wrong and hold my hand up. I never thought that they would invade.

 

Here's something else  hope I'm wrong about. Those that think Putin would not use Nukes are wrong.

[Greenbank2]

 

2 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Absolute bollocks 

Because?

[Lord Montpelier]

6 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Liz Truss banging on about how vital it is that Ukraine win the war while simultaneously doing **** all to help

She's an international liability 

[Footballfirst]

40 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

What's the fecking point in sanctions?

 

When German, Austrian, Hungarian & Slovak energy companies are set to pay the Russians in roubles for their oil & gas.

The way it's going to be done is that these companies will pay in Euro's into Gazprom's Swiss bank account, who will then convert that money into Roubles.   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846

 

Imo this just makes a mockery of the sanctions, when there is such an easy workaround.

I don't see the issue here. If EU countries are paying in Euros as per the contracts, then Russia or its banks are free to convert them into anything they want, be it Roubles, tanks or bottles of vodka

 

The Russians wanted EU countries to buy Roubles through the EU banking system to prop up the Rouble's value, then use them to buy gas and oil.  The sanctions made that impossible within the EU.

 

If the Russians have found a country that is willing to convert Euros to Roubles on their behalf, then that is their call.

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Boab said:

Again, not disputing that, well, apart from the bit about me focussing on irrelevant matters !

It's entirely relevant to say that they won't back down now from the position they are in now. The only way that would happen is for serious diplomatic discussions to take place. 

They won't accept a removal of gains made since 2014. No chance.

It's not appeasement now, it's about not increasing the chance of a wider conflict, one that would be devastating for everyone, with the horrible situation for Ukraine at the minute, in everyone's minds.

If sanctions will dramatically affect Russia, then why the talk of sending even more arms and aircraft to Ukraine ?

 

You need to kill Russian soldiers now.

 

Impoverishing Russian citizens is a longer term outcome. 

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

What's the fecking point in sanctions?

 

When German, Austrian, Hungarian & Slovak energy companies are set to pay the Russians in roubles for their oil & gas.

The way it's going to be done is that these companies will pay in Euro's into Gazprom's Swiss bank account, who will then convert that money into Roubles.   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61257846

 

Imo this just makes a mockery of the sanctions, when there is such an easy workaround.

Feckin Swiss- corruption enablers

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I don't see the issue here. If EU countries are paying in Euros as per the contracts, then Russia or its banks are free to convert them into anything they want, be it Roubles, tanks or bottles of vodka

 

The Russians wanted EU countries to buy Roubles through the EU banking system to prop up the Rouble's value, then use them to buy gas and oil.  The sanctions made that impossible within the EU.

 

If the Russians have found a country that is willing to convert Euros to Roubles on their behalf, then that is their call.

 

Which was never going to happen due to the sanctions, which is why the Russians opened up Swiss bank accounts, thus allowing EU countries to pay via Switzerland and not to Russian banks directly.  Might not be against the sanctions but imo stinks to high hell and just shows how much hold Russia really has over some European countries.

[Lord Montpelier]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

 

Ha ha very good. She's awful isn't she. 

[Boab]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You need to kill Russian soldiers now.

 

Impoverishing Russian citizens is a longer term outcome. 

OK. I see where you are here.

Good luck with that, Dr Strangelove !

👍

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

OK. I see where you are here.

Good luck with that, Dr Strangelove !

👍

 

Supporting Russia is okay if that's your thing.

 

 

[Ked]

13 hours ago, Boab said:

In the world of arms manufacture and sale, you can’t have morals…or friends !

But that world of arms manufacturing was sanctioned against their own rules by 12 European countries. that sold to Russia.

Why are we not boycotting their goods but the Swiss are the bad guys.

Am I the only one reading some of the posts and seeing a sort of jingoistic war language?

 

[Ked]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Which was never going to happen due to the sanctions, which is why the Russians opened up Swiss bank accounts, thus allowing EU countries to pay via Switzerland and not to Russian banks directly.  Might not be against the sanctions but imo stinks to high hell and just shows how much hold Russia really has over some European countries.

The hypocrisy was something I mentioned.

The narrative of we stand with Ukraine is utter bullshit.

12 EU nations broke their own rules selling  arms to Russia after the invasion of crimea .

 

No one seems to bother.

Instead all I read is some shite about Swiss enablers.

It's not just the Swiss.

 

Russian aggression has been armed and financed primarily by Germany and France.

By the back door.

 

 

 

[Ked]

7 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I don't see the issue here. If EU countries are paying in Euros as per the contracts, then Russia or its banks are free to convert them into anything they want, be it Roubles, tanks or bottles of vodka

 

The Russians wanted EU countries to buy Roubles through the EU banking system to prop up the Rouble's value, then use them to buy gas and oil.  The sanctions made that impossible within the EU.

 

If the Russians have found a country that is willing to convert Euros to Roubles on their behalf, then that is their call.

You don't see the issue ?

 

Seriously .

 

[Boab]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Supporting Russia is okay if that's your thing.

 

 

Not my thing.
I want it to end, not continue.
Who wants more people dead ?
 

[Boab]

16 minutes ago, Ked said:

But that world of arms manufacturing was sanctioned against their own rules by 12 European countries. that sold to Russia.

Why are we not boycotting their goods but the Swiss are the bad guys.

Am I the only one reading some of the posts and seeing a sort of jingoistic war language?

 

Exactly my point. 
Hypocrisy. Staggeringly so.

[Ked]

6 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You need to kill Russian soldiers now.

 

Impoverishing Russian citizens is a longer term outcome. 

Why don't you fly over and do some killing then?

 

[Ked]

10 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Gas and oil imports to Europe will have ended by the end of next year.

 

 

I doubt that .

[JFK-1]

This is game changing, Putin, genius that he is, decides he's going to take out Ukraine because they're friendly with the West. Doesn't want potential NATO candidates on his border.

And now this, good luck trying to do a Ukraine on Finland, that's been tried before by Stalin and was disastrous.

 

Finland and Sweden are said to be considering a joint bid to join Nato despite fears of retaliation from Russia

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

I doubt that .

 

If Putin is still in power I don't doubt it at all. There is no going back from this, it's a history changing moment.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If Putin is still in power I don't doubt it at all. There is no going back from this, it's a history changing moment.

You seriously don't think Europe will take oil or gas from Russia even if Putin is still in power?

 

Absolutely no chance will that happen.

He annexed Crimea and the 

Major 2 powers of Europe continued to not only buy oil and gas .

They sold him billions worth of weapons..

 

We will see .

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If Putin is still in power I don't doubt it at all. There is no going back from this, it's a history changing moment.

I agree, it seems unlikely that Europe will accept supply at Russia's whim. Now the cards are on the table, it'll surely be easier to cut them out and deal with more stable suppliers.

It's got little to do with punishing them for being bad.