Russia Invades Ukraine

[Cade]

43 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Still confused as to why this wasn't their first plan. Surely would have been easier to just ramp things up in Donbass rather than try to take the whole country.

 

Did they they really just under estimate the defence of Kiev and other cities or was the early front just a distraction tactic? 

 

If Russia had just kept funneling money and arms to the two 'seperatist' states then I doubt the EU/NATO/US would have imposed a single sanction.

 

20,000 dead soldiers, 1 sunken flagship and countless destroyed or captured tanks is one hell of a distraction, likes.

 

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Still confused as to why this wasn't their first plan. Surely would have been easier to just ramp things up in Donbass rather than try to take the whole country.

 

Did they they really just under estimate the defence of Kiev and other cities or was the early front just a distraction tactic? 

 

If Russia had just kept funneling money and arms to the two 'seperatist' states then I doubt the EU/NATO/US would have imposed a single sanction.

 

They honestly thought that Kyiv would fall within a matter of days and that they would replace the government. That way they would have control over the whole country. Very naive, but typical of divorced from reality thinking.

[Cade]

Russia steamrolled Georgia (population 3 million) in 2008 and has spent years skooshing the poorly armed militias in Syria.

 

That has led to arrogance and complacency.

 

Ukraine, with a population of 41 million, is a much different prospect and it has pretty decent equipment which is mostly on par with Russia.
The Ukrainians have shown the tactical nous to use it in the most effective way.

Not to mention that it has the financial and military backing of The West.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Russia steamrolled Georgia (population 3 million) in 2008 and has spent years skooshing the poorly armed militias in Syria.

 

That has led to arrogance and complacency.

 

Ukraine, with a population of 41 million, is a much different prospect and it has pretty decent equipment which is mostly on par with Russia.
The Ukrainians have shown the tactical nous to use it in the most effective way.

Not to mention that it has the financial and military backing of The West.

 

Add to that the skimming of military equipment along the chain, as well as Putin's subordinates, including those in the FSB, only telling him what he wants to hear, despite that being at odds with reality.

[Mikey1874]

Russians carrying on policy of destroying everything and killing civilians. First new city taken in East. 

 

 

[Cade]

Well, I suppose that if you kill all the population and destroy every building, then by default you've stopped the "neo-nazi Ukrainian regime" from being in control of the towns and people.

 

Putain's logic is flawless.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

They honestly thought that Kyiv would fall within a matter of days and that they would replace the government. That way they would have control over the whole country. Very naive, but typical of divorced from reality thinking.

 

Indeed, the Russian troops who stormed Hostomel Airport only had 2-3 days supplies with them, there was seemingly no plans to re-supply them, as they didn't think they would need it as it would all be over within a couple of days.

[JFK-1]

Reportedly in Mariupol there are around a couple of thousand soldiers and civilian volunteers holed up in a steel plant. Which btw might be an ideal place for a last stand. I have worked in steel mills and they were filled with piles of solid steel slabs and ingots waiting to be heated and rolled to the desired shape.

They varied in weight from around 10 tons to 30 tons and hiding behind a pile of them would be like being behind a wall of solid steel weighing maybe a hundred tons in total and 3 feet thick. Ideal ready made and movable defences.

Though I have wondered if Zelelensky should instruct these people to surrender given the insurmountable odds. But then he's trying to retain every square inch he can. And make them fight tooth and nail for every square inch they take.

A brutal situation for those in that steel mill. I hope they aren't ultimately gassed to weed them out of there.

[Cade]

10 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Reportedly in Mariupol there are around a couple of thousand soldiers and civilian volunteers holed up in a steel plant. Which btw might be an ideal place for a last stand. I have worked in steel mills and they were filled with piles of solid steel slabs and ingots waiting to be heated and rolled to the desired shape.

They varied in weight from around 10 tons to 30 tons and hiding behind a pile of them would be like being behind a wall of solid steel weighing maybe a hundred tons in total and 3 feet thick. Ideal ready made and movable defences.

Though I have wondered if Zelelensky should instruct these people to surrender given the insurmountable odds. But then he's trying to retain every square inch he can. And make them fight tooth and nail for every square inch they take.

A brutal situation for those in that steel mill. I hope they aren't ultimately gassed to weed them out of there.

 

There's also hundreds of civilians in the basement levels of that complex.

I believe that the Mariupol steel plant covers an area of around ten square miles. It's a big place.

 

Meanwhile, on the eastern front, reports are saying that the attacking infantry are Syrian, Libyan and Chechen militias, not Russian soldiers.

They're attacking with no armoured support, only air and cannon artillery fire.

Seems that Putain doesn't want any more grieving families of his own soldiers back home and is willing to use up foreign mercenaries instead.

[Pap]

Absolute bravery. Cant even imagine whats going through their minds.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-news-live-mariupol-steel-plant-final-message-as-russia-takes-first-city-of-new-offensive-12541713?postid=3750123#liveblog-body

[Mikey1874]

I think the principle of fighting to the last will be the key influence to send a message to everyone though at some point the safety of the civilians may take precedence. 

[JFK-1]

50 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

There's also hundreds of civilians in the basement levels of that complex.

I believe that the Mariupol steel plant covers an area of around ten square miles. It's a big place.

 

Meanwhile, on the eastern front, reports are saying that the attacking infantry are Syrian, Libyan and Chechen militias, not Russian soldiers.

They're attacking with no armoured support, only air and cannon artillery fire.

Seems that Putain doesn't want any more grieving families of his own soldiers back home and is willing to use up foreign mercenaries instead.

 

I have read there are an estimated 100,000 civilians still scattered around the city. It's almost entirely wrecked so they must be surviving in the ruins.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

5 hours ago, Cade said:

Meanwhile, on the eastern front, reports are saying that the attacking infantry are Syrian, Libyan and Chechen militias, not Russian soldiers.

So if western countries could send in their special forces and target these chancers then they wouldn't be attacking Russia directly, just saying!

[Cade]

The West has so far sent in specialists to train the Ukrainians with their new toys.

Yanks have sent a big bunch of 155m howitzers in the last day or two, as well as lots of (ancient) APCs.

[redjambo]

Planes. The Ukrainians need planes. For the past few weeks, there has been a procession of "They've been given planes", "Ah, no they hivnae" comments and media releases, and nothing much, if anything at all, has come of any of these.

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

Planes. The Ukrainians need planes. For the past few weeks, there has been a procession of "They've been given planes", "Ah, no they hivnae" comments and media releases, and nothing much, if anything at all, has come of any of these.

The US need to revisit the Mig-29 proposal from Poland and other Countries. If NATO countries can supply them with everything they need short of manpower, Ukraine can defeat Russia. 

[scott herbertson]

12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

The US need to revisit the Mig-29 proposal from Poland and other Countries. If NATO countries can supply them with everything they need short of manpower, Ukraine can defeat Russia. 

#]

 

This from earlier

 

It appears they have not been given planes - just the fuselages and wings and presumably some Airfix glue

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraines-military-gets-more-aircraft-and-parts-to-repair-others-pentagon-says/ar-AAWnzX2?ocid=uxbndlbing&pfr=1

 

 

 

[Cruyff]

15 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

#]

 

This from earlier

 

It appears they have not been given planes - just the fuselages and wings and presumably some Airfix glue

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraines-military-gets-more-aircraft-and-parts-to-repair-others-pentagon-says/ar-AAWnzX2?ocid=uxbndlbing&pfr=1

 

 

 

I saw that the US claimed they had facilitated planes for Ukraine, they technically did, unfortunately old ones that can be stripped for parts.

[Don Dan]

Where’s the Iron Dome? I would have thought that would have been a good defensive weapon to give Ukrainian 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Imaman said:

Where’s the Iron Dome? I would have thought that would have been a good defensive weapon to give Ukrainian 

 

One opinion on the possibility:

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/explained-why-israel-s-iron-dome-won-t-really-help-ukraine-against-russia-1.10690475

[Don Dan]

51 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

One opinion on the possibility:

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/explained-why-israel-s-iron-dome-won-t-really-help-ukraine-against-russia-1.10690475

Thanks Red 

[Mikey1874]

Lots going on with weapons. 

 

Ukraine have 20 new aircraft as got parts to repair them. 

 

US being secretive also. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

God bless JC 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/20/jeremy-corbyn-would-like-to-see-nato-ultimately-disband?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR20QVrj6NLdIOih8iAHlZ3AneA0MJZEGhD305XgLRXaMSk9xqlHnfQRB8A#Echobox=1650486237

 

 

 

[Cade]

Russia carries out successful test launch of a new multi-warhead ICBM

 

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Russia carries out successful test launch of a new multi-warhead ICBM

 

 

Does it have a 60% failure rate? The scrap they're firing at Ukraine does. 

[JFK-1]

So Wednesday has come and gone and the defenders of Mairupol still stand. Given what they're up against and how little they have to fight back with this is a siege for the ages. 

 

Quote

‘Days or hours left’: Russia tightens the noose in Mariupol

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by JFK-1

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Does it have a 60% failure rate? The scrap they're firing at Ukraine does. 

 

Something which all those countries who buy their weapons from Russia should be sitting up and taking notice off.

This war has exposed many weaknesses in the Russian military machine.

[redjambo]

Possible fifth column activities (or government cover-up action?) in Russia as fires have reportedly broken out at the Central Research Institute of the Aerospace Defence Forces in Tver, and Dmitrovsky chemical plant in Kineshma.

[redjambo]

Russian gas oligarch Sergey Protosenya and his family have been found dead in Spain in a possible murder-suicide. It comes the day after former Kremlin official and Gazprombank vice-president Vladislav Avayev and his wife and daughter were found dead with gunshot wounds in Moscow.

[Malinga the Swinga]

11 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

So Wednesday has come and gone and the defenders of Mairupol still stand. Given what they're up against and how little they have to fight back with this is a siege for the ages. 

 

 

 

Or alternatively, Russia playing long game and simply waiting till starvation and fatigue take inevitable hold.

No point in them fighting hand to hand or wasting hardware, when just surrounding place will have same effect.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

Russian gas oligarch Sergey Protosenya and his family have been found dead in Spain in a possible murder-suicide. It comes the day after former Kremlin official and Gazprombank vice-president Vladislav Avayev and his wife and daughter were found dead with gunshot wounds in Moscow.

 

A Putin purge or foreign agents sending a message to Putin?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

51 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Or alternatively, Russia playing long game and simply waiting till starvation and fatigue take inevitable hold.

No point in them fighting hand to hand or wasting hardware, when just surrounding place will have same effect.

 

That's exactly what the Russians have said they are going to do, seal it off so even a fly can't get in or out.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

A Putin purge or foreign agents sending a message to Putin?

 

I have no idea. Neither the fires or the oligarch deaths are coincidences in my eyes though. Something may be afoot.

[JFK-1]

The recent whackings, and that's what they are, are entirely Putin related without a doubt. Everybody knows this entire escapade has been a shitshow from day one.

 

And there have to be some in there who object to this insanity. Putin is leading their country to utter destruction in one way or another. His government if you can call it that in the circumstances clearly weren't on board with this madness. And knew nothing about it till it was sprung.

Nobody, outside presumably a small circle around him knew this was going to happen. And that's just one reason their military performance has been so abysmal. The army didn't know this was going to happen, it's akin to telling Montgomery one day with no previous discussion we're going to invade Normandy today, go get it done.

But one irony in that, Western intelligence agencies knew it was going to happen. Biden kept saying it daily for a week before it happened. How did he know that?

Guesstimate how many people around Putin would have known this was going to happen. At least one of them talked outside the circle. Putin knows that, and is conducting a version of Hitler's revenge following the July 20th plot which narrowed failed to kill him with a bomb.

[New Town Loafer]

 

Ah yes! The ‘controversial’ Azov battalion. The BBC has zero credibility left.

[New Town Loafer]

BBC:

 

Marine Le Pen = far-right.

 

Azov Battalion = controversial.

[Mikey1874]

Azov is mainstream. Neo-nazis might have started it but its part of the Ukraine armed forces. 

 

Russian propaganda. 

[indianajones]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Azov is mainstream. Neo-nazis might have started it but its part of the Ukraine armed forces. 

 

Russian propaganda. 

 

Mainstream nazis yes. 

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Mainstream nazis yes. 

 

So what does that mean in practice? 

 

Are Ukraine wrong to resist the Russians? Is Putin correct that Ukraine is a Nazi country and killing civilians helps to make it less Nazi? 

[indianajones]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So what does that mean in practice? 

 

Are Ukraine wrong to resist the Russians? Is Putin correct that Ukraine is a Nazi country and killing civilians helps to make it less Nazi? 

 

No.

 

They should resist with whatever they have.

 

MSM should be calling Azov for what they are though. Not just 'controversial'. Its fine to call them out for it.

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, indianajones said:

MSM should be calling Azov for what they are though. Not just 'controversial'. Its fine to call them out for it.

 

MSM are calling Azov Battalion what they are - integrated part of the Ukrainian armed forces. 

 

In the middle of a war its not the biggest priority. What they are is a fearsome unit under the Ukrainian armed forces. Resisting the Russians pretty well. Up to Ukraine to sort out any extremism. One of the challenges they have in joining EU. As is a degree of corruption and poor control of air pollution. Do you want the BBC to highlight that as well!? 

 

Same as in every other army. Studies of the British Army found some pretty horrible attitudes that could be called far right wing. US as well. 

 

Plenty pro Russian propaganda out there about them if you want to confirm your views. 

 

But reporting other matters is a higher priority just now not feeding Russian propaganda. 

 

Though maybe the Azov Battalion not the Russians did this. 

 

 

 

[Cade]

Reports claim that are Russia organising another sham independence referendum in the occupied south of Ukraine.

Considering that they've forcibly deported or killed about half the population, this is an obvious sham.

 

 

[Cade]

Whatever is medically wrong with this man, I hope it's causing extreme pain.

 

 

[Dagger Is Back]

On 21/04/2022 at 18:38, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

A Putin purge or foreign agents sending a message to Putin?

Would be a hugely audacious move for a foreign agent to off someone in Moscow to deliver a message in the current climate no?

 

In fact maybe replace audacious with reckless?

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Whatever is medically wrong with this man, I hope it's causing extreme pain.

 

 

Tapping his foot as if he doesn't want to be there or bursting for a P please Bob, hope he wet himself the bassa 

[Cade]

1 minute ago, The Maroon Pound said:

Tapping his foot as if he doesn't want to be there or bursting for a P please Bob, hope he wet himself the bassa 

 

Theories about that he may have parkinson's related tremors, which is why he keeps a death grip on that table for twelve minutes and may also explain the fidgeting feet.

More theories reckon he's on massive doses of steroids after a heart attack which is why he's bloated and weak.

He did come through cancer a few years back so it could also be related to that.

 

Either way, he's clearly not right.

And that's possibly a bad thing. A dying man with a fragile state of mind won't think twice about launching nukes. What does he care? He'll be deid soon anyhow. Not his problem.

[Mister T]

This one is even more telling 

[Pap]

If he was to drop dead now. I wonder what would happen?

 

Even if his successor said he wanted to continue the war, i can imagine the feeling for every Ukrainian soldier would be like having a shot of adrenaline.

 

It could possibly result in another collapse of their country.

[JFK-1]

Can Putin Be Ousted From Within Russia?

 

Nadya Tolokonnikova, a founding member of the Russian protest punk band “Pussy Riot” who served time in prison in Siberia for actively speaking out against Putin, discusses her work and the war in Ukraine with MSNBC’s Ari Melber and analyst Bill Kristol. The trio also discuss recent anti-Russian sentiment in the West.

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

Ali Velshi reports on four separate instances of Kremlin-connected, extremely wealthy Russians with ties to the oil industry who have died by suicide since Russia's war in Ukraine began.