Should Scotland be an independent country?

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

ok

They harmed their own image but no one was hurt.
People need to chill out about these things really it was some dafties shouting. 
Imagine the miners strikes now or have people forgotten the hounding John Major got from Labour supporters when he was going for election?
People are fragile now. 

It was literally nothing. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, pablo said:

 

Then why would the UK ever agree to one? Would Germany allow a vote for Bavaria to leave?

 

There will never be another legal referendum.

Aye ok. 

[Unknown user]

29 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

it was more than that. Language is powerful. Come on your now almost defending them. 

 

I'm actually defending them, this stuff happened in ancient Greece ffs, it's how it works. How do the disenfranchised voice their displeasure to a ruling group that doesn't listen to them?

 

The *******s getting shouted at deserve to get shouted at, they couldn't GAF about normal people or the troubles they face.

[Boab]

15 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Agreed, I should have said representing some of the Indy support. Not all of it all. Obviously. 

 

Btw what about if the pensioner is a Unionist Truss lover ?  

The same, James.

 

Although Truss lovers is a big pool..allegedly ! 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm actually defending them, this stuff happened in ancient Greece ffs, it's how it works. How do the disenfranchised voice their displeasure to a ruling group that doesn't listen to them?

 

The *******s getting shouted at deserve to get shouted at, they couldn't GAF about normal people or the troubles they face.

Yes i do agree with protest. Nothing wrong with that but it just felt rather nasty last night . Some may see it as not a good look if you are trying to win over people to a cause. 

[pablo]

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Aye ok. 

 

I genuinely don't think there will be. Unless of course the Supreme Court ruling changes things in a couple of months. If support for breaking up the UK grew to something like 75% and was consistently so over a long enough time, Westminster would just say get on with it there's no need for a referendum. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes i do agree with protest. Nothing wrong with that but it just felt rather nasty last night . Some may see it as not a good look if you are trying to win over people to a cause. 

 

Hand wringers gonna wring hands 

[Konrad von Carstein]

19 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Yes, a thing the SNP made up. 

They said they would only press for another referendum if there was a material change, Brexit is that,  SNP comment wasn't challenged at the time.

Surely TF you can see why there's been a material change.

The current bin fire at Westminster isn't helping either, with them running over the top of devolved matters.

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

They said they would only press for another referendum if there was a material change, Brexit is that,  SNP comment wasn't challenged at the time.

Surely TF you can see why there's been a material change.

The current bin fire at Westminster isn't helping either, with them running over the top of devolved matters.

 

They were committed to it the morning after losing in 2014. I'm not even sure there's anything much wrong with that, it's what they exist for.

 

The material change thing is just nonsense. After all, had the SNP won in 2014 Scotland would have been out of the EU sooner than Brexit took the UK out.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Showing your intolerance of others is always a useful way of proving you’re on the good side. Can’t wait until the referendum campaign begins in earnest if this is the quality of discourse we can look forward to.

 

Like I say, hand wringers gonna wring hands no matter what.

 

 

Scotland's electorate should be the only people who decide Scotland's government, this is a self evident truth.

[pablo]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

 

Scotland's electorate should be the only people who decide Scotland's government, this is a self evident truth.

 

Scotland's electorate do decide the Scottish Government. We also get a vote in the UK election to return the UK Government. 

[Pans Jambo]

Shouting like an arsehole at the BBC reporter guy is at the very least, strange behaviour. 

The real shame is that over the last 5 - 10 years we have had Farage, Nick Griffin, Mogg, Boris, Trump and now Truss.

They have managed to drag the debate down to this level. I'm not surprised folk are going a bit radio rental.

Used to be Politicians had the good grace to resign and Joe Public had the good grace to riot and smash things up.

Now they just shout SCUM, spit on pensioners and turn into keyboard warriors of an evening. Dearie me!

[periodictabledancer]

24 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

They were committed to it the morning after losing in 2014. I'm not even sure there's anything much wrong with that, it's what they exist for.

 

The material change thing is just nonsense. After all, had the SNP won in 2014 Scotland would have been out of the EU sooner than Brexit took the UK out.

Folk like you keep repeating this "fact" while deliberately avoiding the point that this would have been an informed choice en route to self determination with a longer aim of some kind of EU membership post independence'. To suggest 2016 delivered the same outcome as a 2014 SNP victory would have done is utter tripe but it gets repeated endlessly on social media.

 

As for the pious unionists that have been expressing outrage at one banner in Perth - grow up. 

 

 

 

 

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Shouting like an arsehole at the BBC reporter guy is at the very least, strange behaviour. 

The real shame is that over the last 5 - 10 years we have had Farage, Nick Griffin, Mogg, Boris, Trump and now Truss.

They have managed to drag the debate down to this level. I'm not surprised folk are going a bit radio rental.

Used to be Politicians had the good grace to resign and Joe Public had the good grace to riot and smash things up.

Now they just shout SCUM, spit on pensioners and turn into keyboard warriors of an evening. Dearie me!

 

Always someone else's fault.

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Who's wringing their hands? Folk are, rightfully IMO, drawing attention to the ned behaviour last night. There's There's difference between protest and damaging your cause.

 

As to your second point... they already have. It's an SNP minority government propped up by a hair shirter and his loopy Big Bird lookalike partner in crime.

👍

[jack D and coke]

You’d think there was riots in Perth last night tbh  

Scottish people are so passive. You’ve even got people suggesting it’s all intolerant by some tame AF messages posted on a fitba board😐

I’d have been all for them being showered in bottles of pish etc tbh and having to run the gauntlet! At least that would’ve been something to truly get excited about😂
Instead it feels like I’ve been watching videos of Neymar barely getting brushed and him rolling around on the floor play acting trying to get everyone sent off. 
The tears if there ever is a Yes will truly be something.
Then you’ll see violence imo. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by jack D and coke

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Always someone else's fault.

Yep always the default position. Can see it on this. Minimising those behaviours by saying others are worse.  Thats not the point. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Shooter McGavin said:

I do find it a bit bizarre that the same people who’ve glossed over the cost-of-living crisis, energy bills skyrocketing 200%+, fuel at all-time high prices, more and more people in full-time employment relying on foodbanks, newly introduced warmbanks,

 

but have somehow drawn the line at some toolboxes behaving like idiots in Perth yesterday 😂

 

Nice to see what some peoples priorities are.

It's what they're encouraged to see.

 

The behaviour last night is unacceptable. No debate.

 

But it's a great distraction for the Tories though. Keeps people talking about anything but inflation at a 40 year high, wages down 6% and energy bills up 215%.

 

It worked too because all the unionists on here are apoplectic 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Folk like you keep repeating this "fact" while deliberately avoiding the point that this would have been an informed choice en route to self determination with a longer aim of some kind of EU membership post independence'. To suggest 2016 delivered the same outcome as a 2014 SNP victory would have done is utter tripe but it gets repeated endlessly on social media.

 

As for the pious unionists that have been expressing outrage at one banner in Perth - grow up. 

 

 

 

 

 

The absolute outcome would have been the same, out of the EU. Only sooner.

 

Everything after that is mere conjecture. Could you provide some detail please on the timescale of a sovereign country becoming candidate nation to a fully fledged member of the UK please. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

The absolute outcome would have been the same, out of the EU. Only sooner.

 

Everything after that is mere conjecture. Could you provide some detail please on the timescale of a sovereign country becoming candidate nation to a fully fledged member of the UK please. 

I posted it the other day. We’d have likely been the best qualified (having had all the necessary regulation for the last 40 odd years) and fastest entry ever to the EU. Finland took less than 4 years having never been in it before.

Around 3-4 years is almost certain. 
 

[pablo]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yep always the default position. Can see it on this. Minimising those behaviours by saying others are worse.  Thats not the point. 

 

Absolutely. But then those that are doing that are those that bang on about Tory scum, Huns, Gammons etc etc. Civic and joyous mind. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It's what they're encouraged to see.

 

The behaviour last night is unacceptable. No debate.

 

But it's a great distraction for the Tories though. Keeps people talking about anything but inflation at a 40 year high, wages down 6% and energy bills up 215%.

 

It worked too because all the unionists on here are apoplectic 

Yeah, nobody is talking about inflation/energy bills/wages

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

Absolutely. But then those that are doing that are those that bang on about Tory scum, Huns, Gammons etc etc. Civic and joyous mind. 

Yep.  I thought lessons might be learned after David Ames death .  But clearly not. The " debate" will be even more toxic than 2014 cause i Yes know if they lose again thats it. Its over. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Yeah, nobody is talking about inflation/energy bills/wages

Lots of people are, just not the Tories. 

 

Not heard a peep out the most vocal on this thread though. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Yeah, nobody is talking about inflation/energy bills/wages

LOL some never stop talking about all 3 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Lots of people are, just not the Tories. 

 

Not heard a peep out the most vocal on this thread though. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

There are other threads for that tbf

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Truss saying she'll never ever allow "the family" to break up just reminds me of this. (This is from the Hamilton musical, King George III responding to the US Declaration of Independence.)

 

 

When I hear one member of a family saying they'll never ever allow another one to leave . . . that's not what I'd call a happy family.

[Shooter McGavin]

12 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Yeah, nobody is talking about inflation/energy bills/wages

To be fair, I don’t think that’s what the poster has suggested.

 

I think the issue here is that during an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis, the sitting PM is going off on holidays (plural), and the rest of the tory party are more bothered about infighting and who their next leader will be. 
 

Meanwhile, the rest of us are sitting in this limbo where people are already, or approaching, dire straits.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Shooter McGavin

[Pans Jambo]

What folk need to ask is: Why is the tories even in Perth? about 7 folk and a cat care about them up here!

[Pans Jambo]

28 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Always someone else's fault.

Who's fault?

[The Mighty Thor]

9 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There are other threads for that tbf

Which misses my point of distraction.

 

The MSM and clearly, given the posters on here, right wing Facebook news feeds are full of it. It's the biggest news story. Not inflation hitting a 40 year high, James Cook got shouted at. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Those threads, where everyone is more or less in agreement, are boring AF. This is where I come to see if I can help out those who suffer from donkey brainism. Alas, very few breakthroughs as yet.

 

I read that as Donkeys Knob. 

 

No breakthrough on that front either. 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Which misses my point of distraction.

 

The MSM and clearly, given the posters on here, right wing Facebook news feeds are full of it. It's the biggest news story. Not inflation hitting a 40 year high, James Cook got shouted at. 

It honestly is the biggest story😂

For the love of **** man. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

I really wonder where all the pent up hatred in Scotland stems from.

 

 

 

 

[FWJ]

You don’t need to be a unionist or Tory to be bemused and disappointed at the behaviour of a few dozen folk outside the Concert Hall last night.  
 

I’ll say again, it’s not a good look.  If they’d limited their shouts to inflation, the cost-of-living crisis, the oncoming recession etc and avoided ‘scum’ and ‘traitor’ (I mean WTF?  Traitor? Hyperbole much?) they’d have plenty more people on-side.

 

I am as sure as I can be that the party will be sick-and-tired of these people and the damage they cause to their reputation.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I really wonder where all the pent up hatred in Scotland stems from.

 

 

 

 

Ah you missed your window on it. That would have had potential to probably be funny, in your own mind, around 7.30 this morning. 

 

0/10

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah you missed your window on it. That would have had potential to probably be funny, in your own mind, around 7.30 this morning. 

 

0/10

 

 

She’s a right ned though, eh?

[pablo]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Well said.

 

It's like seeing Hearts fans singing about the Pope and the IRA. Being patriotic and supporting independence need not be about hating others, but these guys made it look that way. 

 

Although Nationalism of any kind leads to conflict with others. I mean you'll get old firm fans who aren't bigoted, but scratch the surface......

 

For many who say Westminster, they really mean the English. We've sleepwalked into this shitshow. 

[The Mighty Thor]

12 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

She’s a right ned though, eh?

I can't tell from that clip. I stopped German when I left school in 1984.

[JudyJudyJudy]

36 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I really wonder where all the pent up hatred in Scotland stems from.

 

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, pablo said:

For many who say Westminster, they really mean the English.

le elephant in the room.  Just like with the cost of living crisis.  Its being blamed squarely on Brexit and Ukraine.  Scatch underneath that and think about the economic damages of lockdowns ! But some posters wont acknowledge that as it'll be critical of the great leader.  

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

Who's wringing their hands? Folk are, rightfully IMO, drawing attention to the ned behaviour last night. There's There's difference between protest and damaging your cause.

 

As to your second point... they already have. It's an SNP minority government propped up by a hair shirter and his loopy Big Bird lookalike partner in crime.

 

Hand wringers 🤷‍♂️

 

The English electorate decide the national government, let's not pretend we don't understand that this is the central point!

[Unknown user]

27 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Although Nationalism of any kind leads to conflict with others. I mean you'll get old firm fans who aren't bigoted, but scratch the surface......

 

For many who say Westminster, they really mean the English. We've sleepwalked into this shitshow. 

 

 

 

We want Scotland's electorate to decide Scotland's national government.

 

The depths you lot will go to in order to tarnish that perfectly understandable desire!

[Konrad von Carstein]

47 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

le elephant in the room.  Just like with the cost of living crisis.  Its being blamed squarely on Brexit and Ukraine.  Scatch underneath that and think about the economic damages of lockdowns ! But some posters wont acknowledge that as it'll be critical of the great leader.  

Aye. The Scottish government were the only government who posed lockdowns eh?

Your visceral hatred of NS turns you into a complete spangle at times.

Lockdowns, especially early in the pandemic, were accepted as an appropriate measure.

And it's "Dear" Leader, if you're going to use pathetic tropes, at least get them right.  

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Konrad von Carstein

[Konrad von Carstein]

54 minutes ago, jonesy said:

For some, but not the majority, I reckon.

 

Agree re Nationalism. In this day and age, anyone being all dreamy about a nation state strikes me as being a bit dopey.

Dopey here I'm all dreamy about nationalism/independence because I want Scotland to make it's own way in the world, nothing to do with the tired cliché of hating England or English people, Christ I'd be hating members of my extended family FGS.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Aye. The Scottish government were the only government who posed lockdowns eh?

Your visceral hatred of NS turns you into a complete spangle at times.

Lockdowns, especially early in the pandemic, were accepted as an appropriate measure.

And it's "Dear" Leader, if you're going to use pathetic tropes, at least get them right.  

 

No they weren’t “accepted “ . They were imposed . I meant “ great “ as that’s what that mob calls her . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Dopey here I'm all dreamy about nationalism/independence because I want Scotland to make it's own way in the world, nothing to do with the tired cliché of hating England or English people, Christ I'd be hating members of my extended family FGS.

Fantasy island more like . 

[Konrad von Carstein]

39 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

We want Scotland's electorate to decide Scotland's national government.

 

The depths you lot will go to in order to tarnish that perfectly understandable desire!

Fair comment, comrade!

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Fair comment, comrade!

 

Aye and look what happened to him ! 

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

No they weren’t “accepted “ . They were imposed . I meant “ great “ as that’s what that mob calls her . 

Of course they were imposed you 🍩, imposed as, at the time, it was universally agreed it was the only way to limit infection and stop hospitals being over run, you do remember the films from Italian hospitals eh?