OTT Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, pablo said: So what? Well exactly. So what about the broad shoulders? You're basically pointing out what every normal country already does and claiming it as a UK success story. The bare minimum IMO can't possibly be described as 'broad shoulders'. If Independent we could have borrowed to create and fund a furlough scheme, the exact same way Ireland, Denmark or any of the other countries around us did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, OTT said: Well exactly. So what about the broad shoulders? You're basically pointing out what every normal country already does and claiming it as a UK success story. The bare minimum IMO can't possibly be described as 'broad shoulders'. If Independent we could have borrowed to create and fund a furlough scheme, the exact same way Ireland, Denmark or any of the other countries around us did. Ah there's the assumptions @Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, pablo said: Ah there's the assumptions @Smithee 'Scotland would have protected workers' 'Gotcha' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 40 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: That's fair enough, my point is that many rampant independent supporters are under the illusion that Scotland will make gazillions of pounds selling water to England, I can't ever see that happening for glaringly obvious reasons, just because Scotland has lots of renewable energy sources and water it doesn't mean England doesn't have any, some would have you believe that in England the sun never shines, the rain never falls, the wind never blows and there's no river mouths or coast line! I'm not really across England's energy production at all so can't really comment on them, but what I do know is that Scotland is an energy sufficient country and yet my gas and electricity are going to nearly 5 grand. I'm not getting much benefit from this union we're in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: That's fair enough, my point is that many rampant independent supporters are under the illusion that Scotland will make gazillions of pounds selling water to England, I can't ever see that happening for glaringly obvious reasons, just because Scotland has lots of renewable energy sources and water it doesn't mean England doesn't have any, some would have you believe that in England the sun never shines, the rain never falls, the wind never blows and there's no river mouths or coast line! Of course they have all these things, just a lot less than Scotland, per capita (OK maybe not sun). So Scotland is in a much better position to profit from the forthcoming renewable bonanza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, XB52 said: Of course they have all these things, just a lot less than Scotland, per capita (OK maybe not sun). So Scotland is in a much better position to profit from the forthcoming renewable bonanza Exactly. As "azores high" events become more common, England will start to run dry relative to population. Noone suggests the US doesnt have water but just go to you tube and type in "Lake Mead" and youll see a huge problem for Vegas and California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) Found this handy chart. Figured since some blame the SNP for everything, we should perhaps have a cut out and keep who is to blame chart! 🤣 Its also a handy where is one hand tied behind our back reference guide for the yessers Hint: near enough everywhere Edited August 13, 2022 by That thing you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 hour ago, pablo said: I'm not making any assumptions, I'm pointing out something that our country actually did. You were saying it was an obvious advantage of being in the UK. It can only be an advantage if you assume less would have happened out of the union 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, That thing you do said: Found this handy chart. Figured since some blame the SNP for everything, we should perhaps have a cut out and keep who is to blame chart! 🤣 Its also a handy where is one hand tied behind our back reference guide for the yessers Hint: near enough everywhere That's a little out of date. Many more powers have been devolved since that graphic was presumably made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 hour ago, pablo said: Ah there's the assumptions @Smithee Its not an assumption that an independent sovereign nation would be able to borrow, its just fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: That's a little out of date. Many more powers have been devolved since that graphic was presumably made. Try here then and build your own https://www.parliament.scot/about/how-parliament-works/devolved-and-reserved-powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: That's a little out of date. Many more powers have been devolved since that graphic was presumably made. You say that like Scotland having more control over its governance is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: That's fair enough, my point is that many rampant independent supporters are under the illusion that Scotland will make gazillions of pounds selling water to England, I can't ever see that happening for glaringly obvious reasons, just because Scotland has lots of renewable energy sources and water it doesn't mean England doesn't have any, some would have you believe that in England the sun never shines, the rain never falls, the wind never blows and there's no river mouths or coast line! Here's a little nugget for you of Tory Party thinking. Open the markets up, just like household energy. Oh wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 12 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: That's fair enough, my point is that many rampant independent supporters are under the illusion that Scotland will make gazillions of pounds selling water to England, I can't ever see that happening for glaringly obvious reasons, just because Scotland has lots of renewable energy sources and water it doesn't mean England doesn't have any, some would have you believe that in England the sun never shines, the rain never falls, the wind never blows and there's no river mouths or coast line! "Many rampant independent supporters" kinda betrays any logical/ rational thought process here. Of course , no one believes the drivel you're projecting onto the independence debate. Independence stands or falls on its own merits , not your hysterical nonsense of selling water to England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 12 hours ago, pablo said: So what? So your "point" is pointless. Westminster didn't do anything every other country on the planet didn't do to save it's people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 12 hours ago, pablo said: Ah there's the assumptions @Smithee There's no assumption. That's what EVERY country on the planet did. It printed money to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: That's fair enough, my point is that many rampant independent supporters are under the illusion that Scotland will make gazillions of pounds selling water to England, I can't ever see that happening for glaringly obvious reasons, just because Scotland has lots of renewable energy sources and water it doesn't mean England doesn't have any, some would have you believe that in England the sun never shines, the rain never falls, the wind never blows and there's no river mouths or coast line! When I saw the headline about 'sharing' water with England, my heart sank. I'm extremely concerned that under the internal market bill they'll find some way of seizing it and ruining it. In Scotland, as you'll know water is paid by council tax, whereas in England its privatised. In England on average its £34 a month. But as we're seeing at the moment with energy prices once privatised, these companies will price gouge the consumer into poverty. I don't want Westminster touching Scotlands water because they are utterly incapable of running a bath! (see what I did there ). RE your point about renewables, the difference between Scotland and England is that we're actively pursuing renewables and green energy, Liz Truss who will be our next prime minister is talking about cracking down on solar panels. Whilst England does have resources to utilise, it doesn't seem to want to. Also worth pointing out that Loch Ness has more water in it than ALL English and Welsh lakes. The water situation in England seems fairly serious. Edited August 14, 2022 by OTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 1 hour ago, OTT said: When I saw the headline about 'sharing' water with England, my heart sank. I'm extremely concerned that under the internal market bill they'll find some way of seizing it and ruining it. In Scotland, as you'll know water is paid by council tax, whereas in England its privatised. In England on average its £34 a month. But as we're seeing at the moment with energy prices once privatised, these companies will price gouge the consumer into poverty. I don't want Westminster touching Scotlands water because they are utterly incapable of running a bath! (see what I did there ). RE your point about renewables, the difference between Scotland and England is that we're actively pursuing renewables and green energy, Liz Truss who will be our next prime minister is talking about cracking down on solar panels. Whilst England does have resources to utilise, it doesn't seem to want to. Also worth pointing out that Loch Ness has more water in it than ALL English and Welsh lakes. The water situation in England seems fairly serious. Specifically southampton up to oxford, over to essex and down to kent is worst affected. You can bet your arse £100 a month water bills are coming to england. Unless they find more water...and thats where we come in. England has 10x less water than Scotland and 10x bigger population. Do the maths, an independent Scotland would make billions pumping water down there, not to mention excess electricity/gas/oil. We are their cash cow. As you rightly say loch ness itself has more water than all lakes in England and Wales combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_R Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 15 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: That's fair enough, my point is that many rampant independent supporters are under the illusion that Scotland will make gazillions of pounds selling water to England, I can't ever see that happening for glaringly obvious reasons, just because Scotland has lots of renewable energy sources and water it doesn't mean England doesn't have any, some would have you believe that in England the sun never shines, the rain never falls, the wind never blows and there's no river mouths or coast line! But crucially Scotland can power the UK far cheaper. The English turbines are mostly offshore and more expensive. What's more Scotland vastly subsides the London and the souths energy by paying up to £30m more to attach to the grid. Scottish renewable energy producers are being asked to pay much more than English power companies to connect to the grid. Scotland is therefore effectively subsidising the rest of the UK’s energy – paying over the odds to provide it with renewable energy, and then paying over the odds again to buy some of that power back. Ofgem allows energy companies to charge Scottish electricity consumers more in standing charges – despite the fact that they are closer to the source of renewable power. People looking out of their windows at wind turbines have to pay more to access electricity than someone in London. These are essentially political choices made by the UK Government and its appointees on GEMA, Ofgem’s decision-making body. As long as Scotland is part of a UK energy network controlled from London, little can be done to change the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 Sheesh our resident snp activists were up late but did provide a chart which underlines that Sturgeon and her team are indeed responsible for most things that are Donald ducked in the country . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 57 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Sheesh our resident snp activists were up late but did provide a chart which underlines that Sturgeon and her team are indeed responsible for most things that are Donald ducked in the country . Oh Oh Oh! Like energy bills of £4200 brought about by mass privatisation and minimal regulation or the housing crisis brought about by a poorly thought out right to buy scheme and failing to attempt to even replace half of those houses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 (edited) . Edited August 14, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Alan_R said: But crucially Scotland can power the UK far cheaper. The English turbines are mostly offshore and more expensive. What's more Scotland vastly subsides the London and the souths energy by paying up to £30m more to attach to the grid. Scottish renewable energy producers are being asked to pay much more than English power companies to connect to the grid. Scotland is therefore effectively subsidising the rest of the UK’s energy – paying over the odds to provide it with renewable energy, and then paying over the odds again to buy some of that power back. Ofgem allows energy companies to charge Scottish electricity consumers more in standing charges – despite the fact that they are closer to the source of renewable power. People looking out of their windows at wind turbines have to pay more to access electricity than someone in London. These are essentially political choices made by the UK Government and its appointees on GEMA, Ofgem’s decision-making body. As long as Scotland is part of a UK energy network controlled from London, little can be done to change the situation. Scotland can power much of the UK cheaper because the infrastructure has been put in, the enewable energy has been massively underused in England, I live in the Forest of Bowland, an area about the same size as the Moorfoots the Lammermuirs put together, there is only one small wind farm with 12 turbines, I'm not sure how many turbines are on the Moorfoots and Lammermuirs but there are many many more. My point was really that England doesn't need Scotlands water, it needs to increase it's storage, England shouldn't really need Scotlands energy either, it's got massive renewable potential, the Pennine chain has virtually no wind turbines, England has more and bigger estuaries and rivers, a huge coastline, I'm sure all this, in the event of Scottish independence, will be utilised as there will be profits to be made, Scotland has ivested in renewables, England hasn't, yet. Edited August 14, 2022 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 9 hours ago, OTT said: When I saw the headline about 'sharing' water with England, my heart sank. I'm extremely concerned that under the internal market bill they'll find some way of seizing it and ruining it. In Scotland, as you'll know water is paid by council tax, whereas in England its privatised. In England on average its £34 a month. But as we're seeing at the moment with energy prices once privatised, these companies will price gouge the consumer into poverty. I don't want Westminster touching Scotlands water because they are utterly incapable of running a bath! (see what I did there ). RE your point about renewables, the difference between Scotland and England is that we're actively pursuing renewables and green energy, Liz Truss who will be our next prime minister is talking about cracking down on solar panels. Whilst England does have resources to utilise, it doesn't seem to want to. Also worth pointing out that Loch Ness has more water in it than ALL English and Welsh lakes. The water situation in England seems fairly serious. The water problem in England isn't serious, it can be serious for a period of time i some areas, it can be reduced by increasing the storage, I've said before that I'm fairly sure that areas of England will be flooded this winter, at no point will anyone then be saying that water should be brought down from Scotland, the argument will be that England needs to store more water in winter. I'm aware about Loch Ness and it's water volume, but it's no good to England as its too far away, why would it need to come to England when England has enough water, it'll be MUCH cheaper for any company to put the infrastructure into the lake district or build reservoirs in the midlands or the south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 9 hours ago, periodictabledancer said: "Many rampant independent supporters" kinda betrays any logical/ rational thought process here. Of course , no one believes the drivel you're projecting onto the independence debate. Independence stands or falls on its own merits , not your hysterical nonsense of selling water to England. It's ot my hysterical nonsense about selling water to England, I'm pointing out that the rampa t independence supporters thinking that Scotland will make a fortune selling water to England is a nonsense. I'm well aware there are other aspects to independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 10 hours ago, periodictabledancer said: There's no assumption. That's what EVERY country on the planet did. It printed money to survive. Printing money? And which currency would Scotland have been printing if Yes had one in 2014? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Sheesh our resident snp activists were up late but did provide a chart which underlines that Sturgeon and her team are indeed responsible for most things that are Donald ducked in the country . Yep. And yet the cry is always if it wasn’t for nasty Westminster everything would be dandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Harriott Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Nationalists can say Scotland is a colony (it isn't) or that England oppresses us (it doesn't). Whatever. The MAJORITY OF SCOTS voted to remain in the UK and that means the MINIORITY OF SCOTS can't get an S30 and can't get a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Nationalists can say Scotland is a colony (it isn't) or that England oppresses us (it doesn't). Whatever. The MAJORITY OF SCOTS voted to remain in the UK and that means the MINIORITY OF SCOTS can't get an S30 and can't get a referendum. This pop up on your facebook news feed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Nationalists can say Scotland is a colony (it isn't) or that England oppresses us (it doesn't). Whatever. The MAJORITY OF SCOTS voted to remain in the UK and that means the MINIORITY OF SCOTS can't get an S30 and can't get a referendum. I don't think there will ever be another legal referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Harriott Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: This pop up on your facebook news feed? Yip I like it thought I would share it with you trolls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Yip I like it thought I would share it with you trolls Excellent. I still prefer you posting shite meme's though. easier to skip past them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Nationalists can say Scotland is a colony (it isn't) I don't think Nats say that Scotland is a colony though. I think they say that Scotland is treated like a colony. Can't even get past the first sentence without it falling apart. 😂 Edited August 16, 2022 by Mysterion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 29 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Yip I like it thought I would share it with you trolls They troll every thread it is tiresome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 44 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Nationalists can say Scotland is a colony (it isn't) or that England oppresses us (it doesn't). Whatever. The MAJORITY OF SCOTS voted to remain in the UK and that means the MINIORITY OF SCOTS can't get an S30 and can't get a referendum. 2,001,926 voters voted to remain part of the UK. Out of a -at that time - population of 5,347,600 that equates to 37.436% Or, in other words, 62.564% - i.e. the MAJORITY OF SCOTS - did NOT vote to remain part of the UK. But I'm sure you knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, Boof said: 2,001,926 voters voted to remain part of the UK. Out of a -at that time - population of 5,347,600 that equates to 37.436% Or, in other words, 62.564% - i.e. the MAJORITY OF SCOTS - did NOT vote to remain part of the UK. But I'm sure you knew that. You could apply this thinking to an endless number of election results. The majority of Scots did not vote to leave either. Pointless argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinks Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, Boof said: 2,001,926 voters voted to remain part of the UK. Out of a -at that time - population of 5,347,600 that equates to 37.436% Or, in other words, 62.564% - i.e. the MAJORITY OF SCOTS - did NOT vote to remain part of the UK. But I'm sure you knew that. What %age of the 5,347,600 were entitled to vote? I would have thought that an abstension would be recorded as a vote for status quo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, Boof said: 2,001,926 voters voted to remain part of the UK. Out of a -at that time - population of 5,347,600 that equates to 37.436% Or, in other words, 62.564% - i.e. the MAJORITY OF SCOTS - did NOT vote to remain part of the UK. But I'm sure you knew that. Will you be applying the same logic to the last Scottish Election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 6 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: You could apply this thinking to an endless number of election results. The majority of Scots did not vote to leave either. Pointless argument. Indeed one could. All I wished to do was draw attention to the poster's glaringly incorrect observation. 6 hours ago, sinks said: What %age of the 5,347,600 were entitled to vote? I don't know. The original poster didn't specify voter eligibility in what I can only assume to be some sort of misguided attempt to claim 'a win'. 6 hours ago, sinks said: I would have thought that an abstension would be recorded as a vote for status quo As is your right. 6 hours ago, pablo said: Will you be applying the same logic to the last Scottish Election? I'm not aware of anybody yet making such a numerically incorrect assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Disgraceful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 5 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Disgraceful Civic joyous Nationalism though..... That's what happens when you spend years stoking grievance based politics and differentiation. Things will be messy for a couple more years too. It's like watching the Nationalists going through a grieving process as the penny drops that's there's no route forward for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Disgraceful Ffs So if you aren’t a rabid Nationalist you are Scum. 😢 Edited August 17, 2022 by Dazo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Dazo said: Ffs So if you aren’t a rabid Nationalist you are Scum. 😢 TRAITOR !! SCUM !! could be a poster from Paisley . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Jeffros Furios said: TRAITOR !! SCUM !! could be a poster from Paisley . Straight from court to abuse some guy at work. Think it’s his New Democratic vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Dazo said: Ffs So if you aren’t a rabid Nationalist you are Scum. 😢 Seems so . They really were pathetic . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 44 minutes ago, pablo said: Civic joyous Nationalism though..... That's what happens when you spend years stoking grievance based politics and differentiation. Things will be messy for a couple more years too. It's like watching the Nationalists going through a grieving process as the penny drops that's there's no route forward for them. It really is . It’s is concerning how far some have sunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, pablo said: Civic joyous Nationalism though..... That's what happens when you spend years stoking grievance based politics and differentiation. Things will be messy for a couple more years too. It's like watching the Nationalists going through a grieving process as the penny drops that's there's no route forward for them. Let's leave Brexit out of this..em..😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janbo1874 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 There can only be a baw hair between the Nats last night and Trump supporters in their blinkered nasty cult like obedience to their cause. Let's wait and see what Sturgeon has to say about this affront on democratic debate. Could be a long wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Reynolds Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 People in glass houses and all that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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