Vaccination certificates needed at Tynecastle?

[luckydug]

14 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Interesting take on it luckydug.

 

Let me post this again. Look at them, killing us with Covid... at a rate less than Scotland, Wales and NI were they all still have restrictions? 

I don't know about figures. 

I was merely pointing out my opinion on the general attitude on England. 

Perhaps they have reached herd immunity. 

I do think they are being reckless and it could come back and bite them. 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I think there are multiple reasons why the population getting vaccinated is a good idea, I don't like the targeting of mass events or night clubs though, I would have preferred a more general restriction to persuade people to get vaccinated.

 

Personally I'd have gone the opposite direction and offered benefits to vaccination rather than restrictions on the unvaccinated.

 

The first one I'd have done was remove all return testing for travel to green listed countries for the vaccinated. 

 

I'd have also played to people's good nature and made a much bigger case of how getting vaccinated even if you felt not at risk yourself would help keep others safe. Instead they went down the route of getting vaccinated as being good for you individually which isn't really that true for certain demographics.

 

If anything I think they've reduced uptake with the approach taken but I've absolutely nothing other than gut feel for that.

[Dennis Denuto]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Personally I'd have gone the opposite direction and offered benefits to vaccination rather than restrictions on the unvaccinated.

 

The first one I'd have done was remove all return testing for travel to green listed countries for the vaccinated. 

 

I'd have also played to people's good nature and made a much bigger case of how getting vaccinated even if you felt not at risk yourself would help keep others safe. Instead they went down the route of getting vaccinated as being good for you individually which isn't really that true for certain demographics.

 

If anything I think they've reduced uptake with the approach taken but I've absolutely nothing other than gut feel for that.

I think those that are still not vaccinated would have been difficult to persuade what ever way it went.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Yes, the study concluded all other things being equal (age sex etc) a vaccinated person is 63% less likely to infect you.

 

That feels like a big thing to allow for. Did the detail what the variation is between ages, sex, weight etc and how they corrected for it?

[The Hogfather]

14 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Good for you. 

 

You stated a vaccinated 25 year old is less likely to get admitted to hospital with Covid symptoms than a non-vaccinated one. 

 

I've my doubts on that so asked for data.

 

Once again, you don't have any. You're very keen to throw out certainties based on seemingly nothing.

 

It's not a debate I'd like to have so have a good evening.

I imagine if I decided to take longer than 30 seconds googling the question, I’d be able to bring up more articles about being vaccinated vs unvaccinated, but here we are after that one quick search. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm

 

Have a good evening sport. 

[Dennis Denuto]

10 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Yes, the study concluded all other things being equal (age sex etc) a vaccinated person is 63% less likely to infect you.

It's an interesting finding if it can be proven. If you can persuade people they are 63% less likely to catch it and therefor pass it on, it could help the vaccine uptake in some cases.

 

I am not sure it makes much difference to the vaccine passport debate though, maybe it does?? 

[been here before]

15 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I would have preferred a more general restriction to persuade people to get vaccinated.

 

 

Keep removing more and more liberties to "persuade" people.

 

Nae bother.

Edited October 18, 2021 by been here before

[Dennis Denuto]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That feels like a big thing to allow for. Did the detail what the variation is between ages, sex, weight etc and how they corrected for it?

I nearly put in my reply that Taffin is going to point out that all things aren't equal though

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

 

Keep removing more and more liberties to "persuade" people.

 

Nae bother.

No, I just don't think that targeting specific sectors in this instance is a fair way to do it.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

I imagine if I decided to take longer than 30 seconds googling the question, I’d be able to bring up more articles about being vaccinated vs unvaccinated, but here we are after that one quick search. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm

 

Have a good evening sport. 

 

I'll be honest in a quick skim I can't see where that looks at it by age, in fact it says they've age standardised it but I'll take your word for it.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, XB52 said:

10 posts and you've seen the light already, well done. 

To you …….

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I nearly put in my reply that Taffin is going to point out that all things aren't equal though

 

😂😂

 

I'm not always like this. Just sporadically, it's a topic that gets my goat I'll be honest.

[Beni]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That feels like a big thing to allow for. Did the detail what the variation is between ages, sex, weight etc and how they corrected for it?

 

It's not detailed in the summary, but there's a PDF attached to it which might have the data you're looking for.

[been here before]

7 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

No, I just don't think that targeting specific sectors in this instance is a fair way to do it.

 

Aye ok then "targetting specific sectors" until you "persuade them".

 

Thats ok then. Nothing at all wrong with that.

Edited October 18, 2021 by been here before

[JudyJudyJudy]

25 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The warning signs?

 

Your cases, hospitalisations and deaths are all on a clear downward curve...without vaccine passports precisely as we've entered autumn. The signs are the opposite of a warning really but worry away.

 

What I shared was from Traveling Tabby and were simply what the number were. No case made either way.

 

Anyway, we're now tied in knots over something very unimportant (the target of vaccine passports) because I didn't agree with another poster. So let's agree to disagree and enjoy our evenings 👍

Oh he’s the glass half empty type . Really is . Never rains but it pours really .  Can’t see to take any positives from stats . 

21 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Personally I'd have gone the opposite direction and offered benefits to vaccination rather than restrictions on the unvaccinated.

 

The first one I'd have done was remove all return testing for travel to green listed countries for the vaccinated. 

 

I'd have also played to people's good nature and made a much bigger case of how getting vaccinated even if you felt not at risk yourself would help keep others safe. Instead they went down the route of getting vaccinated as being good for you individually which isn't really that true for certain demographics.

 

If anything I think they've reduced uptake with the approach taken but I've absolutely nothing other than gut feel for that.

Yes if the Govt had been honest with healthy people about taking the vax they might have been more successful with its uptake but the bullying , lies , coercion and down right dangerous lies ( the amount of kids I’ll in hospital which the “ health “ secretary tweeted) were all pitiful ploys to play on the healthy people’s  “ social responsibility “ 

11 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

 

Keep removing more and more liberties to "persuade" people.

 

Nae bother.

Oh I know he’s outrageous . Makes a serious glib Throwaway comment about people’s right of choice over their own body . 

[Taffin]

16 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

It's not detailed in the summary, but there's a PDF attached to it which might have the data you're looking for.

 

Cheers I'll have a look later on 👍👍

 

And I promise not to bore everyone with whatever I take from it 

[Dennis Denuto]

10 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Aye ok then "targetting specific sectors" until you "persuade them".

 

Thats ok then. Nothing at all wrong with that.

No I am saying that I think it is wrong to do that.

 

I also think that as a public health policy getting people to take the covid vaccinations is a good one.

 

I am not sure if it is passports or getting vaccinated you are against, I only know that you thought your 'Franky' patter was hilarious.

[Mars plastic]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

No, its protect the NHS or start shutting down the economy again and keep everyone indoors.

Oh ma actual sides.  

[been here before]

12 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

No I am saying that I think it is wrong to do that.

 

I also think that as a public health policy getting people to take the covid vaccinations is a good one.

 

I am not sure if it is passports or getting vaccinated you are against, I only know that you thought your 'Franky' patter was hilarious.

 

Surely you should know what I might be against or in favour of? You've obviously read the whole thread.

 

At least Im presuming you've read the whole thread to come out with your maternally overprotective melodramatic "bullying" poor wee franky bullshit.

Edited October 18, 2021 by been here before

[doctor jambo]

My kids are jagged, however- the coercion involved on the part of the scotgov, is pretty wrong.

As healthy, thin kids the vacc is going to not do very much for them, frankly .

And for the first time ever they are being injected with something for someone else’s benefit- and if they don’t, they lose some of their freedoms.

That is most definitely not consent as would be applied anywhere else.

[Dennis Denuto]

17 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

My kids are jagged, however- the coercion involved on the part of the scotgov, is pretty wrong.

As healthy, thin kids the vacc is going to not do very much for them, frankly .

And for the first time ever they are being injected with something for someone else’s benefit- and if they don’t, they lose some of their freedoms.

That is most definitely not consent as would be applied anywhere else.

It’s the first time I’ve lived through a global pandemic that caused society to be shut down, so maybe we can judge things a little differently. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

33 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

My kids are jagged, however- the coercion involved on the part of the scotgov, is pretty wrong.

As healthy, thin kids the vacc is going to not do very much for them, frankly .

And for the first time ever they are being injected with something for someone else’s benefit- and if they don’t, they lose some of their freedoms.

That is most definitely not consent as would be applied anywhere else.

 

Are Kids not exempt?

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

My kids are jagged, however- the coercion involved on the part of the scotgov, is pretty wrong.

As healthy, thin kids the vacc is going to not do very much for them, frankly .

And for the first time ever they are being injected with something for someone else’s benefit- and if they don’t, they lose some of their freedoms.

That is most definitely not consent as would be applied anywhere else.

👍

[doctor jambo]

16 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

It’s the first time I’ve lived through a global pandemic that caused society to be shut down, so maybe we can judge things a little differently. 

Can we?

or rather - should we?

We throw consent and medical confidentiality out the window at our peril.

But then again the public applauded the removal of so many freedoms already, as they nod along in their bovine stupidity.

The reason for the removal of those liberties is irrelevant - all governments think they know what is best for the “people”.

They dont

[doctor jambo]

9 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

Are Kids not exempt?

Just wait until universities ask for vaccine status.

it’s coming ……

 

[been here before]

42 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

My kids are jagged, however- the coercion involved on the part of the scotgov, is pretty wrong.

As healthy, thin kids the vacc is going to not do very much for them, frankly .

And for the first time ever they are being injected with something for someone else’s benefit- and if they don’t, they lose some of their freedoms.

That is most definitely not consent as would be applied anywhere else.

 

Ach its cool though. First time we've lived through a global pandemic for a century so maybe we should veiw this coercion, removal of liberties and freedom of choice "a little differently".

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Just wait until universities ask for vaccine status.

it’s coming ……

 

And high schools and then primary schools , that’s how it all works ,  by stealth . 

[luckydug]

7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Can we?

or rather - should we?

We throw consent and medical confidentiality out the window at our peril.

But then again the public applauded the removal of so many freedoms already, as they nod along in their bovine stupidity.

The reason for the removal of those liberties is irrelevant - all governments think they know what is best for the “people”.

They dont

Are you really a doctor ? 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

8 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Just wait until universities ask for vaccine status.

it’s coming ……

 

 

So what freedoms have they lost?

[doctor jambo]

5 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Ach its cool though. First time we've lived through a global pandemic for a century so maybe we should veiw this coercion, removal of liberties and freedom of choice "a little differently".

Maybe we should make the unvaccinated wear something so they can be identified, instead of us disclosing our private information.

something easily seen so we can identify the threat of the anti-vaccine.

Perhaps an armband .

yes, why not

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

Are you really a doctor ? 

 

Yes, and one that believes utterly in freedom of choice and proper consent- the right to make stupid ass decisions even if harmful.

For a govt that believes in freedom, it doesn’t half like telling us what to do, think and believe.

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

So what freedoms have they lost?

You actually for real?

Evem if you were living in a hole the last year +, you must have noticed nobody else was allowed in?

[been here before]

7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Maybe we should make the unvaccinated wear something so they can be identified, instead of us disclosing our private information.

something easily seen so we can identify the threat of the anti-vaccine.

Perhaps an armband .

yes, why not

 

Its a thought.

 

Then perhaps start curtailing where they can go and what they can do based in their age. Start with the over 80s from leaving their home without good reason. Some sort of official documentation could be brought in detailing why they are out- subject to random spot checks of course by golk patrolling supermarkets and such like. If that doesnt work then ban the 65-70s, then the 55s-65s and so on.

 

Remove the most at risk from the equation.

 

Worth a bash- after all its the first pandemic Ive lived through.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by been here before

[Dennis Reynolds]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You actually for real?

Evem if you were living in a hole the last year +, you must have noticed nobody else was allowed in?

 

You said your kids were coerced into getting it or risk losing some freedoms but kids are exempt? So what are you on about?

 

Edit. Or are they over 18 and you're just still calling them Kids for dramatic effect?

Edited October 18, 2021 by LMc

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Maybe we should make the unvaccinated wear something so they can be identified, instead of us disclosing our private information.

something easily seen so we can identify the threat of the anti-vaccine.

Perhaps an armband .

yes, why not

Armbands in different colours may be a good idea ? 

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You actually for real?

Evem if you were living in a hole the last year +, you must have noticed nobody else was allowed in?

I know . I think some people seem to forget what lockdowns entailed ! Or are just trying to erase it from their collective memory as too painful to think about ? 

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

Its a thought.

 

Then perhaps start curtailing where they can go and what they can do based in their age. Start with the over 80s from leaving their home without good reason. Some sort of official documentation could be brought in detailing why they are out- subject to random spot checks of course by golk patrolling supermarkets and such like. If that doesnt work then ban the 65-70s, then the 55s-65s and so on.

 

Remove the most at risk from the equation.

 

Worth a bash- after all its the first pandemic Ive lived through.

 

 

Personal choice, you know the risks , you can take it or not.

if an 80 year old wants to risk stepping out in pandemic so be it, up to them.

their call. 

[Des Lynam]

24 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Can we?

or rather - should we?

We throw consent and medical confidentiality out the window at our peril.

But then again the public applauded the removal of so many freedoms already, as they nod along in their bovine stupidity.

The reason for the removal of those liberties is irrelevant - all governments think they know what is best for the “people”.

They dont

 

[frankblack]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Maybe we should make the unvaccinated wear something so they can be identified, instead of us disclosing our private information.

something easily seen so we can identify the threat of the anti-vaccine.

Perhaps an armband .

yes, why not

 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

Oh ma actual sides.  

 

[Dennis Denuto]

11 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Personal choice, you know the risks , you can take it or not.

if an 80 year old wants to risk stepping out in pandemic so be it, up to them.

their call. 

But those people then have a knock on effect on public health, loads of people have rightly been concerned about the negative impact on cancer patients and screening caused by lockdown (the pandemic) which can only be returned to normal when there are not loads of cases of Covid requiring treatments. Cancer is just one of the health issues that have been parked in the last 18 months.

 

I would have expected a Doctor to be more concerned with the wider Public Health issues than it looks like you are expressing on here.

[XB52]

12 hours ago, luckydug said:

Are you really a doctor ? 

 

No

[indianajones]

Good to see more and more people are becoming angry at the vaccine passport introduction. 

 

Seems like most people are now realising that they have no effect on public health at all. 

 

 

[Mars plastic]

19 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Good to see more and more people are becoming angry at the vaccine passport introduction. 

 

Seems like most people are now realising that they have no effect on public health at all. 

 

 

You need to a special kind of fruitloop to think they’re necessary. Like, really special. 

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Dennis Denuto said:

But those people then have a knock on effect on public health, loads of people have rightly been concerned about the negative impact on cancer patients and screening caused by lockdown (the pandemic) which can only be returned to normal when there are not loads of cases of Covid requiring treatments. Cancer is just one of the health issues that have been parked in the last 18 months.

 

I would have expected a Doctor to be more concerned with the wider Public Health issues than it looks like you are expressing on here.

The public wellbeing has many factors to ensure happiness and well being.

social contact , financial , employment, entertainment, and so on.

we are social creatures.

Life involves risk.

It also involves personal responsibility.

The wholesale destruction of much of what makes us human has been quite depressing.

The impact on students , education, businesses and personal freedoms has been quite something.

Peak liberty was probably under Blair , and since then there has been a gradual assault on free speech , thinking, Liberty and privacy .

It accelerated under COVID , it worries me, and should worry you too.

 

[frankblack]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

You need to a special kind of fruitloop to think they’re necessary. Like, really special. 

 

Alternatively you have to be hard of thinking to want mass gathering events like Football to return to closed doors and gigs to be cancelled.  Its one or the other - take your pick.

[Mars plastic]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Alternatively you have to be hard of thinking to want mass gathering events like Football to return to closed doors and gigs to be cancelled.  Its one or the other - take your pick.

It’s over, Frank. Go find something else to be petrified of. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

The public wellbeing has many factors to ensure happiness and well being.

social contact , financial , employment, entertainment, and so on.

we are social creatures.

Life involves risk.

It also involves personal responsibility.

The wholesale destruction of much of what makes us human has been quite depressing.

The impact on students , education, businesses and personal freedoms has been quite something.

Peak liberty was probably under Blair , and since then there has been a gradual assault on free speech , thinking, Liberty and privacy .

It accelerated under COVID , it worries me, and should worry you too.

 

 

It was thinking like that that gave us 50m deaths due to Spanish Flu.

 

Do you not think it better to be cautious and shut things down especially when they had no vaccine or proven treatments?

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

It’s over, Frank. Go find something else to be petrified of. 

 

I am looking forward to my gigs and Football matches over the winter.

 

If you let me know which end you are attempting to get into the match on Saturday, I'll arrive early with my popcorn to watch you get launched into a meat wagon arguing with the Police. 

[henryheart]

12 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Personal choice, you know the risks , you can take it or not.

if an 80 year old wants to risk stepping out in pandemic so be it, up to them.

their call. 

 

A lot of things on here are being said with tongue firmly in cheek, but getting back to basics, of course everyone has a freedom of choice. I suppose it is about how you exercise that freedom.

 

It is all very well thinking 'I'm young and I'm fit, so if I catch it I'll be ok,' The vaccination is about more than that. It is also about reducing the risk of catching it and passing it on. If you want to be considerate to others, you get vaccinated and if you don't think about or give a monkey about the consequence for others if you catch it, you might not. Sometimes, in fact quite a lot of the time, what we do in life should not just be about 'me'. I would quite like 80 year olds to be able to go about their daily lives, including going to Tynecastle, without fear of contamination and if getting vaccinated helps to reduce the risk to vulnerable people, then all to the good.    

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I am looking forward to my gigs and Football matches over the winter.

 

If you let me know which end you are attempting to get into the match on Saturday, I'll arrive early with my popcorn to watch you get launched into a meat wagon arguing with the Police. 

There’s a real want about grown men who continually use emojis and gifs to try and convey what they want to say.