Des Lynam Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: Binary is the only way to be because of what we've endured over the last few seasons... We need to change the mindset and think these results are unacceptable. That and saying that losing in Glasgow is just what happens. It's a shite attitude that needs to change. Did alloa not beat us twice last year? I think we know it’s unacceptable. We’ve all moaned about it enough. We are where we are and there’s no point going on about Alloa and Brora in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Auldbenches said: I thought they got a win on the leagu against us which was their first ever win over us. I'm sure someone on here claimed the cup game as a draw... I think we won all 3 league games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Des Lynam said: I think we know it’s unacceptable. We’ve all moaned about it enough. We are where we are and there’s no point going on about Alloa and Brora in my humble opinion. Until it happens again. And it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: I think we won all 3 league games The cup lose was our only ever defeat to them? Still no excuses with the players we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: So it was a premiership team that lost to them? I definitely recall us being in the Championship when we played them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, davemclaren said: I definitely recall us being in the Championship when we played them. With practically the same team we are going into the top flight with. We may have been on the championship, but it was with the same premiership players we are using this season. It wasn't down to is having a championship team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: The cup lose was our only ever defeat to them? Still no excuses with the players we had. Yes, I believe they’d never beaten us before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: With practically the same team we are going into the top flight with. We may have been on the championship, but it was with the same premiership players we are using this season. It wasn't down to is having a championship team. So Dundee were a Premiership team as well last season, and Hamilton and Kilmarnock were Championship teams, as they have many of the same players? I’m out. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Yes, I believe they’d never beaten us before. They haven’t had many opportunities, thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, davemclaren said: They haven’t had many opportunities, thankfully. Likewise with Brora! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Only one competitive defeat to Alloa. Other defeat was a Victory Cup game just after WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Brora was our worst result since the Boer war afaik. Away at Spion Kop on a balmy January evening, always a hard place to go. Salisbury oot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Likewise with Brora! 100% record against us competitively I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, jr ewing said: Until it happens again. And it will. We won’t lose to a Highland League team again. But every chance we can lose to a part time lower league team in one of the cups again. The last few seasons has been grim - lost to East Fife as well as Alloa and Brora! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Boris said: Away at Spion Kop on a balmy January evening, always a hard place to go. Salisbury oot! Just before my time. 🥸 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said: We won’t lose to a Highland League team again. But every chance we can lose to a part time lower league team in one of the cups again. The last few seasons has been grim - lost to East Fife as well as Alloa and Brora! You could say the same for everyone outside the old firm, based on the Raith vs Aberdeen result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: We won’t lose to a Highland League team again. But every chance we can lose to a part time lower league team in one of the cups again. The last few seasons has been grim - lost to East Fife as well as Alloa and Brora! Peterhead as well but that wasn’t on Robbie’s watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, frankblack said: You could say the same for everyone outside the old firm, based on the Raith vs Aberdeen result. Aberdeen rested practically their entire first team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, The Old Tolbooth said: Aberdeen rested practically their entire first team Its still a defeat, and other premiership teams occasionally get knocked out by teams in lower divisions especially away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 39 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I still think losing at home to Forfar and Montrose in cups were worse results. Losing away to a team in your own league isn’t particularly uncommon. Brora was a far different kettle of fish. We could've played for 10 hours against Alloa and never scored that night. Not sure we ought to be splitting hairs trying to say one was worse than the other - Both were disgraceful performances first and foremost, and both led to disgraceful results. Some people park bad results and move onto the next game(1), others remember them and demand no repeats(2), and still others use them as a stick to beat the manager with every time he loses a game(3). I'd place myself in the middle camp (2). Losing to Celtic at CP will never make me want to sack a manager, neither will an inept first half performance like we saw...However, we do see too many inept performances and this must change or at least be limited to ONLY games against the OF in Glasgow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Just before my time. 🥸 Hahaha. Just... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: We could've played for 10 hours against Alloa and never scored that night. Not sure we ought to be splitting hairs trying to say one was worse than the other - Both were disgraceful performances first and foremost, and both led to disgraceful results. Some people park bad results and move onto the next game(1), others remember them and demand no repeats(2), and still others use them as a stick to beat the manager with every time he loses a game(3). I'd place myself in the middle camp (2). Losing to Celtic at CP will never make me want to sack a manager, neither will an inept first half performance like we saw...However, we do see too many inept performances and this must change or at least be limited to ONLY games against the OF in Glasgow... I think we will have other inept performances as most, if not all teams, do. It’s that number and regularity that would be the concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, frankblack said: Its still a defeat, and other premiership teams occasionally get knocked out by teams in lower divisions especially away from home. It's hardly the same though is it? They dropped almost their entire first team because they've got a European tie against Qarabag coming up this week in Baku, we didn't have any important games coming up and dropped no one for that game (Alloa, we played a weaker side at Brora, stupidly!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, The Old Tolbooth said: It's hardly the same though is it? They dropped almost their entire first team because they've got a European tie against Qarabag coming up this week in Baku, we didn't have any important games coming up and dropped no one for that game (Alloa, we played a weaker side at Brora, stupidly!) My point still stands that other teams are going to get knocked out by teams in the league below them, most notably in the Scottish Cup when its straight knock-out without the groups. It happens in England, its just what happens when teams take their eye off the ball or are out of form. Edited August 17, 2021 by frankblack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 No Hearts manager should have survived last season and the only reason Robbie is still here, is he was brought in to win it and he did. Results didn't matter to those running the club as getting back up was the one and only target. As for winning/losing in Glasgow, I can take a loss, as long as we play like we did in the second half, having said that ,play like that and we could have won. It's all about the manager's mind set and if he thinks defending in Glasgow is the way to go then that alone should be enough to say good bye. We need a manager that is not afraid of any team in the league as all are there to be beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 12 hours ago, ToqueJambo said: The best coach we can ever have is the one who has us at the right end of the table most of the time, beats Hibs more often than not, and occasionally delivers a good day out or two at a cup semi or final. Neilson has done all of the above every season he's managed us. Although the semi and final day outs were "day ins". He’s won two, lost two and drawn 3 against Hibs. In two wins Hibs missed a penalty in both, he’s never got us to a single semi final in any cup. Your grasp of facts is actually shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: No Hearts manager should have survived last season and the only reason Robbie is still here, is he was brought in to win it and he did. Results didn't matter to those running the club as getting back up was the one and only target. As for winning/losing in Glasgow, I can take a loss, as long as we play like we did in the second half, having said that ,play like that and we could have won. It's all about the manager's mind set and if he thinks defending in Glasgow is the way to go then that alone should be enough to say good bye. We need a manager that is not afraid of any team in the league as all are there to be beaten. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: He’s won two, lost two and drawn 3 against Hibs. In two wins Hibs missed a penalty in both, he’s never got us to a single semi final in any cup. Your grasp of facts is actually shocking. He did get us to a final by beating Hibs, so wind your neck in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Auldbenches said: The difference in budget seems to matter when neilson shites himself at Parkhead but it doesn't matter when Alloa and Brora beat us. Hypocrisy to justify neilson's failings. Anyone trying to find reasons to play down those cup results last session doesn't care as much for the team as much as they do individuals. How the **** can anyone say the Alloa loss wasn't that bad? First time they had ever beat us 🙈. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 If Hibs hibsed it in the early KO on Sunday, we’ll go top with a victory over the sheep, who, hopefully, will be just back from the back of beyond ! Bit of positivity, guys ! 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said: That's exactly it mate, no one is expecting to go there and dominate, but at least have some sort of game plan, because that first have had absolutely zero game plan whatsoever, and I hate myself for agreeing with Michael Stewart, but he was bang on, I mean a little Danish club with a fraction of the resources that Celtic have came up with a game plan and knocked them out, it's not impossible to do. He was spot on and having been in the last Hearts team to have done this he would obviously know. The current manager was away by then but surely must’ve played in victories there also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, The Old Tolbooth said: Spot on, for the record here's the budget for Midtyjlland, it's larger than ours but not massively, the Celtic budget is huge in comparison https://salarysport.com/football/danish-superliga/football-club-midtjylland/ Ferencvaros was similar to ours last season when they beat them home and away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, frankblack said: You could say the same for everyone outside the old firm, based on the Raith vs Aberdeen result. Raith aren’t part time though or at least are mostly full time and were in the Premiership play offs so it’s not really a comparison. You’re taking straw clutching to a new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: First time they had ever beat us 🙈. Unacceptable unless it happens again this season. Should he go if that type if result happens in the cup this season? I don't think he cares about the cups Look at his comments when the draw was made and the money spinner one after the hibs draw. We knew what was needed to get seeded and failed. I'd rather a cup win than a shot at Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, frankblack said: He did get us to a final by beating Hibs, so wind your neck in! An extremely lucky win, he is unlikely to get us anywhere near another game at Hampden ever again. Then shat the bed as he did on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, Boab said: Peterhead as well but that wasn’t on Robbie’s watch. I don’t think East Fife was either was it? I was talking in general rather than any specific manager. We do seem to struggle more against diddy teams than Aberdeen or Hibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 47 minutes ago, davemclaren said: So Dundee were a Premiership team as well last season, and Hamilton and Kilmarnock were Championship teams, as they have many of the same players? I’m out. 😄 It's your point I'm trying to grasp. It was practically the same team as this season. If we struggled against Alloa we are ****ed this season. I reckon the vast majority of fans think it wasn't acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: Unacceptable unless it happens again this season. Should he go if that type if result happens in the cup this season? I don't think he cares about the cups Look at his comments when the draw was made and the money spinner one after the hibs draw. We knew what was needed to get seeded and failed. I'd rather a cup win than a shot at Europe. Exactly, winning the Scottish Cup could see St Johnstone into this new diddy trophy league format after a full house of their own fans for the first time in a long time if ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Auldbenches said: It's your point I'm trying to grasp. It was practically the same team as this season. If we struggled against Alloa we are ****ed this season. I reckon the vast majority of fans think it wasn't acceptable. What does not acceptable mean though? If it means defeat against a lower ranked team in the same division means sacking the manager then I don’t think that’s a sustainable model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, davemclaren said: What does not acceptable mean though? If it means defeat against a lower ranked team in the same division means sacking the manager then I don’t think that’s a sustainable model. The division we were in and the comparative resources isnt the same as losing to a lower team on the top flight. Did he learn from that defeat? We then lost to a highland league team. If it happens in the cup this season in that ae lose to someone like alloa, does he survive? If yes, then we are stuck with accepting results alone this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: The division we were in and the comparative resources isnt the same as losing to a lower team on the top flight. Did he learn from that defeat? We then lost to a highland league team. If it happens in the cup this season in that ae lose to someone like alloa, does he survive? If yes, then we are stuck with accepting results alone this. The likelihood is that he would survive another Alloa type cup defeat (probably not Brora though), as long as not in the relegation zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Exactly, winning the Scottish Cup could see St Johnstone into this new diddy trophy league format after a full house of their own fans for the first time in a long time if ever. If the Europa Conference League is a diddy trophy, I shudder to think what that makes the Premier Sports Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: The likelihood is that he would survive another Alloa type cup defeat (probably not Brora though), as long as not in the relegation zone. League position came into my thoughts as I was typing. I'd say if we weren't in the top 6 and lost to a part time team, then he should go. Sunday doesn't help build your hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auldbenches Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Exactly, winning the Scottish Cup could see St Johnstone into this new diddy trophy league format after a full house of their own fans for the first time in a long time if ever. We haven't moved on from Budge claiming getting to the quarter finals against Motherwell was a success. This attitude seems to be part of the club now. Europe will take care of itself when we start winning things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Boab said: If the Europa Conference League is a diddy trophy, I shudder to think what that makes the Premier Sports Cup. The diddiest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Auldbenches said: We haven't moved on from Budge claiming getting to the quarter finals against Motherwell was a success. This attitude seems to be part of the club now. Europe will take care of itself when we start winning things. Indeed, as much as European nights are fantastic winning trophies is the main objective, even this diddy cup that we haven’t won in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Auldbenches said: League position came into my thoughts as I was typing. I'd say if we weren't in the top 6 and lost to a part time team, then he should go. Sunday doesn't help build your hopes up. It maybe explains why Robbie thought Celtic away was a good draw. Possibly a good draw for him personally as he won’t get sacked for losing a cup tie at Parkhead. He was probably delighted to avoid another Alloa or Brora away. But obviously it wasn’t a good draw for the club. Edited August 17, 2021 by Fozzyonthefence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvery_Moon Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: It maybe explains why Robbie thought Celtic away was a good draw. Possibility a good draw for him personally as he won’t get sacked for losing a cup tie at Parkhead. He was probably delighted to avoid another Alloa or Brora away. But obviously it wasn’t a good draw for the club. I really believe that to be the case as he knew he couldn't be blamed for a defeat in Glasgow. As I've said before though the failure was not getting the job done v Inverness where a 1-0 win was as useful to us as a 100-0 defeat. Both of those results would have qualified us unseeded for the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Silvery_Moon said: I really believe that to be the case as he knew he couldn't be blamed for a defeat in Glasgow. As I've said before though the failure was not getting the job done v Inverness where a 1-0 win was as useful to us as a 100-0 defeat. Both of those results would have qualified us unseeded for the next round. But only one would have got him sacked. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Indeed, as much as European nights are fantastic winning trophies is the main objective, even this diddy cup that we haven’t won in my lifetime. But football has changed. Finance is king, like it or not. The benefits of European participation far outweigh domestic completion, or at least you would think it would to someone like Budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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