Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[Boab]

17 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Perhaps not surprising about the 90s being more successful against Celtic - they were Tam Kite for most of that decade as they struggled to even finish top 2 as Rangers went on to 9 in a row.  Iirc Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell all finished 2nd during that period.  But not Hibs of course, the flairmeisters continued to be shite. 

Sheep finished 2nd four times in the 90’s, us once and Motherwell once.

[jambo_74]

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Perhaps not surprising about the 90s being more successful against Celtic - they were Tam Kite for most of that decade as they struggled to even finish top 2 as Rangers went on to 9 in a row.  Iirc Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell all finished 2nd during that period.  But not Hibs of course, the flairmeisters continued to be shite. 

Correct, the biscuit tin was empty for a large part of the nineties. Hibs, enough said really.

[Sherbet]

19 minutes ago, Mr Nobody said:

We have gone to Celtic Park with an increasingly negative gameplan as the years have gone on. 

 

Are managers more worried about keeping their jobs or the damage a heavy defeat does for the rest of the season if they took a real humping through there? 

 

When there is such a huge gap in the financial clout between the teams the team spending most will win most of the time regardless of what gameplan you go with.

Robbies job Is ultra safe so no excuse for tactics

[stevie1874]

3 hours ago, KyleLafferty said:

Cause those ‘average European teams’ still function with a bigger budget and Better players then us 😂

Mitdjylland? Nobody is saying Celtic don’t have better players and a bigger budget and on their day should beat us because of that,  so how you set the team up and tactics take on a greater relevance. What we witnessed twice against Celtic was sit tight for 60 minutes in the hope we are still in the game and then have a bit of a go. It worked once and we rode our luck but that was never going to happen yesterday. We could debate this all day I guess I just want better for Hearts than what I think our coaching team can deliver because looking at our squad we look decent on paper. 

[Mr Nobody]

6 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Robbies job Is ultra safe so no excuse for tactics

He's on a loser though. Plays negative and we lose 3 2 or 2 0 or something. 

 

Opens up and maybe cops a 5 or 6 nil and you know where that is headed. 

 

Tactics aren't going to overcome the financial gulf that exists other than the odd game in here and there when we are on and they are off like last time.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Mr Nobody

[stevie1874]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

So, what we’re saying is Hearts couldn’t have played better to a man even in defeat?

 

Maybe people waiting to pounce on Neilson have taken their chance in the last 18 hours but football will always be scrutinised, performances will.  
 

You’ve got a mix on here who just want to quickly skip over things(which is precarious in football if you don’t recognise failings) and others who are just out to savage.  
 

Whether it’s a loss v Celtic or a loss v Hamilton, the manager should have the nous to recognise where he and the players went wrong. You don’t improve accepting poor performances. 
 

Dangerous game to play and something we never learned from under Levein. 

Good post. Some are just to quick to raise the white flag nowadays. 

[Sherbet]

1 minute ago, Mr Nobody said:

He's on a loser though. Plays negative and we lose 3 2 or 2 0 or something. 

 

Opens up and maybe cops a 5 or 6 nil and you know where that is headed. 

 

Tactics aren't going to overcome the financial gulf that exists other than the odd game in hear when we are on and they are off like last time.

There is a financial gulf between us and raith rovers and QoTS  who both attacked and won at tynecastle last season

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Mitdjylland? Nobody is saying Celtic don’t have better players and a bigger budget and on their day should beat us because of that,  so how you set the team up and tactics take on a greater relevance. What we witnessed twice against Celtic was sit tight for 60 minutes in the hope we are still in the game and then have a bit of a go. It worked once and we rode our luck but that was never going to happen yesterday. We could debate this all day I guess I just want better for Hearts than what I think our coaching team can deliver because looking at our squad we look decent on paper. 

Add in Cluj and Ferencvaros to name two of many with less or similar budgets as us who have exploited Celtics weak defence in the last few years. 

[Dazo]

9 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

There is a financial gulf between us and raith rovers and QoTS  who both attacked and won at tynecastle last season

But over the course of a season they were no where near us. Upsets will always occur, that’s football. However it’s mainly down to the favourites not having a great day and the underdog playing above themselves. Generally not a lot you can do about it. On paper and budgets we should be mikes away from Celtic but we have beaten them and they have beaten them us. The logic of attacking them will yield results is pretty flawed and results over the years prove this, just ask Stendel for more recent proof. 

[Homme]

Cluj and Ferencvaros both operate on bigger budgets than us.

[Homme]

Midtjylland also. 

 

Way above us financially.

[Mr Nobody]

19 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

There is a financial gulf between us and raith rovers and QoTS  who both attacked and won at tynecastle last season

 

Your right but how often has that happened over the years against those teams? 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, jambo_74 said:

I'm bored, so thought I would check out the stats. In the league against Celtic, we managed two more wins in the noughties than we did in the period between 2010-11 and 2019-20. We won four times at home and twice away compared to four wins at home and no wins away. We fell into administration , played essentially a youth team, got relegated twice in the latter period which may help account for the two less positive results. I'm not trying to suggest going to Celtic Park and capitulating is somehow acceptable, its definitely not.  I just think we look back at the past with maroon tinted spectacles, believing in the halcyon days which have gone before. Nostalgia can play tricks on the mind, I am convinced that the 90's at Celtic park were better than the nougthies. I shall now put my mind at rest by checking if I am right 😀. 

Haha🙂. But what does it take just to be 3 or 4 wins better over a decade?  Being a bit braver but there’s no doubt you need the players and manager too.

 

I checked ages ago what we were like v the OF, home and away, from the mid 80s and into the early 90s. It actually wasn’t bad when you consider you’re always up against it v them, but also the how the way our own team is run through the years is a main factor too.  
 

Something like 25 in AMac’s period and into Joe Jordan’s.  Like you, I’d need to re-check 😁👍🏻 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Debut 4

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Not a love-in at all. Cant stand them. But wiling enough to say what I saw my own eyes - they were excellent first half and a huge step up from what I saw from them last season, or even two weeks ago. Rangers on the other hand seem to be regressing and may have to ship players out for financial reasons. 

Any team can look good with 10 men in the opposition's half. In the first half we allowed them so much room they didn't need any defenders,. They had two players harassing our defenders and stopped us going forward, added to the fact ALL our players were in our own box most of the game. I can count on one hand the number of times we played in their half. Credit to Robbie he changed things second half, but by then the damage was irreversible. On the negative side, Robbie got it all wrong, first half, and I thought everyone and their dog knew that defending against the bigot twins is suicide. By playing so many defensive minded players he handed the win to them on a plate.

Can only hope he doesn't do as Levein did and change our tactics every game, stick with the same players as much as possible and get stuck in, harass and harry the opposition players and play a striker in front of Boyce.

[iainmac]

2 hours ago, jambo_74 said:

I'm bored, so thought I would check out the stats. In the league against Celtic, we managed two more wins in the noughties than we did in the period between 2010-11 and 2019-20. We won four times at home and twice away compared to four wins at home and no wins away. We fell into administration , played essentially a youth team, got relegated twice in the latter period which may help account for the two less positive results. I'm not trying to suggest going to Celtic Park and capitulating is somehow acceptable, its definitely not.  I just think we look back at the past with maroon tinted spectacles, believing in the halcyon days which have gone before. Nostalgia can play tricks on the mind, I am convinced that the 90's at Celtic park were better than the nougthies. I shall now put my mind at rest by checking if I am right 😀. 

 

It is acceptable (at Board level), irrespective of who is in charge, as there are never any consequences to losing to either of the OF.

 

Managers & coaches see it as a "free hit" and we get what we get.

 

Until that mindset changes, we'll all just have to suck it up.

[Mars plastic]

The apologists still peddling the Real Madrid comparisons. Tragic stuff.

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, Mr Nobody said:

He's on a loser though. Plays negative and we lose 3 2 or 2 0 or something. 

 

Opens up and maybe cops a 5 or 6 nil and you know where that is headed. 

 

Tactics aren't going to overcome the financial gulf that exists other than the odd game in here and there when we are on and they are off like last time.

Nobody is suggesting opening up and taking them on. It’s no coincidence that the manager who parked the bus in Glasgow more than any other hearts manager also has the worst record. Celtic expect to come up against packed defences and the added bonus of leaving ourselves with no outball just made the first half an absolute stroll for them. 

[iainmac]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Nobody is suggesting opening up and taking them on. It’s no coincidence that the manager who parked the bus in Glasgow more than any other hearts manager also has the worst record. Celtic expect to come up against packed defences and the added bonus of leaving ourselves with no outball just made the first half an absolute stroll for them. 

 

It's as if some people have totally convinced themselves that there are no options between parking the bus & Tora, Tora, Tora!

 

It doesn't have to be one or the other but putting that Celtic defence under some kind of pressure during the whole game would've been appreciated.

[GinRummy]

Just now, iainmac said:

 

It's as if some people have totally convinced themselves that there are no options between parking the bus & Tora, Tora, Tora!

 

It doesn't have to be one or the other but putting that Celtic defence under some kind of pressure during the whole game would've been appreciated.

People are just deliberately missing the point because they see any criticism of RN as unacceptable behaviour. I don’t think even RN would have been happy with how his tactics panned out in the first half. 

[iainmac]

Just now, GinRummy said:

People are just deliberately missing the point because they see any criticism of RN as unacceptable behaviour. I don’t think even RN would have been happy with how his tactics panned out in the first half. 

 

Well according to him, he has "no regrets", which suggests he was happy.

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Well according to him, he has "no regrets", which suggests he was happy.

Didn’t hear that. Disappointing tbh.

Edited August 16, 2021 by GinRummy

[iainmac]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Didn’t hear that. Disappointing tbh.

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/robbie-neilson-no-regrets-over-21317973

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/robbie-neilson-no-regrets-over-21317973

Thanks

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Sherbet said:

There is a financial gulf between us and raith rovers and QoTS  who both attacked and won at tynecastle last season

 

We also beat Raith 4-0 away - twice......

 

[lost in space]

29 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/robbie-neilson-no-regrets-over-21317973

THIS is why he won't change - he NEVER accepts his mistakes. How very "Craig Levein".

[stevie1874]

1 hour ago, Homme said:

Midtjylland also. 

 

Way above us financially.

Don’t think so, they have a rich owner but don’t think he bankrolls them. Turnover in line with ours I think?

[iainmac]

Just now, lost in space said:

THIS is why he won't change - he NEVER accepts his mistakes. How very "Craig Levein".

 

Like CL, he doesn't have to change because there is no pressure coming from above.

[martoon]

Only way I can see us building a squad to, at the very least, trouble the OF is via Europe.

 

If we can get a season or two of even Conference League football it will raise the clubs profile and income streams.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to make that a target.

 

Although while Neilson's coach it probably is. Not a cheap jibe, btw, just a hunch/fear/opinion that it's not within him to get us there.

 

Club yes; Neilson no.

[Mars plastic]

4 minutes ago, lost in space said:

THIS is why he won't change - he NEVER accepts his mistakes. How very "Craig Levein".

We're going absolutely nowhere with this guy in charge.

[mickycameron98]

One cup defeat in Glasgow and all the Robbie haters are out in force. 1st defeat of the season against a Celtic team with 13.5 million pound strike force ffs. We've never even signed a player for 1 million let alone that. 

 

Celtic would have troubled most teams the way they started yesterday and unfortunately when they play like that it's very hard to compete. 

 

It's like you all can't wait for him to fail. Defeat to Aberdeen and the helicopter will be out gaurenteed!

[jr ewing]

11 minutes ago, mickycameron98 said:

One cup defeat in Glasgow and all the Robbie haters are out in force. 1st defeat of the season against a Celtic team with 13.5 million pound strike force ffs. We've never even signed a player for 1 million let alone that. 

 

Celtic would have troubled most teams the way they started yesterday and unfortunately when they play like that it's very hard to compete. 

 

It's like you all can't wait for him to fail. Defeat to Aberdeen and the helicopter will be out gaurenteed!

Not hate. He's just not any good. Guaranteed. 

[Rudi cant fail]

You can kind of excuse him a little for playing this way against Celtic yesterday, but this is how he will set us up at Easter Road and Pittodrie and potentially other away venues if teams  are in a bit of form.
 

[Homme]

43 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Don’t think so, they have a rich owner but don’t think he bankrolls them. Turnover in line with ours I think?

 

Doesn't really matter about the turnover. They can pay millions for players and we can't. 

 

They are semi regular in the CL and in Europe every year. Household European names.

[jr ewing]

Teams will certainly have a go at Tynecastle this season. 

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Rudi cant fail said:

You can kind of excuse him a little for playing this way against Celtic yesterday, but this is how he will set us up at Easter Road and Pittodrie and potentially other away venues if teams  are in a bit of form.
 

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

Teams will certainly have a go at Tynecastle this season. 

 

Will make a difference from last season in the Championship then, and leave more opportunities for us to attack. 👍

Edited August 16, 2021 by frankblack

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Homme said:

Midtjylland also. 

 

Way above us financially.

Nonsense, two of those turnover is around the same as ours and Cluj is half of it if the figures I found were correct. 

[Pasquale for King]

18 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Doesn't really matter about the turnover. They can pay millions for players and we can't. 

 

They are semi regular in the CL and in Europe every year. Household European names.

That’s is correct for Cluj and Midtjylland, not Ferencvárosi though. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Homme]

35 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s is correct for Cluj and Midtjylland, not Ferencvárosi though. 

 

Ferencvaros are Euro regulars and have spent just shy of 6m on transfers in the close season

 

[stevie1874]

45 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Doesn't really matter about the turnover. They can pay millions for players and we can't. 

 

They are semi regular in the CL and in Europe every year. Household European names.

Sorry my knowledge of Danish football is not as good as yours, but no names stuck out when they played Celtic and it was seen as a shock when they beat them. Millions for players you say who were they?

[Homme]

41 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Nonsense, two of those turnover is around the same as ours and Cluj is half of it if the figures I found were correct. 

 

Turnover doesn't win you games. Better players usually does and all teams mentioned here supposedly around our level could buy almost all our playing squad if they wanted to.

[Homme]

2 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Sorry my knowledge of Danish football is not as good as yours, but no names stuck out when they played Celtic and it was seen as a shock when they beat them. Millions for players you say who were they?

 

I dont need any knowledge of Danish football. Just do a little research before posting.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, stevie1874 said:

Sorry my knowledge of Danish football is not as good as yours, but no names stuck out when they played Celtic and it was seen as a shock when they beat them. Millions for players you say who were they?

 

Why don't you do your own research into their transfers in and out and turnover? 

 

I just went to Google and this page came back with transfer values of its players: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-midtjylland/startseite/verein/865

 

I don't know this website, but that was just a 2 minute query on google.

[martoon]

1 hour ago, mickycameron98 said:

One cup defeat in Glasgow and all the Robbie haters are out in force. 1st defeat of the season against a Celtic team with 13.5 million pound strike force ffs. We've never even signed a player for 1 million let alone that. 

 

Celtic would have troubled most teams the way they started yesterday and unfortunately when they play like that it's very hard to compete. 

 

It's like you all can't wait for him to fail. Defeat to Aberdeen and the helicopter will be out gaurenteed!

 

Helicopter and haters?

 

Wrong on both accounts, micky.

 

It was a plane and negative posts are from Hearts supporters who simply don't believe that Neilson is the way forward.

 

We've had a good start, I've bought the ST but, like many, I still feel we're wasting valuable time and money on the Neilson project.

 

There are no haters, just doubters.

 

Not on this site, imo.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Ferencvaros are Euro regulars and have spent just shy of 6m on transfers in the close season

 

Not last year they hadnt when they beat Celtic home and away. 

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Turnover doesn't win you games. Better players usually does and all teams mentioned here supposedly around our level could buy almost all our playing squad if they wanted to.

Indeed, we saw that last season when we struggled against teams with a tiny turnover compared to ours. European earnings does come under turnover though. 
Midtjyland especially seem to have splashed a lot of cash. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

The apologists still peddling the Real Madrid comparisons. Tragic stuff.

What other interests in life do you have other than insulting other Hearts fans and belittling our manager and owner ? 

Get a new hobby ffs

[Cardiff Hearts]

Having calmed down ( a little) after yesterday’s shambolic 1H, and whilst I understand the anger at Robbie and the players, I think we as fans also need to take stock. Our squad is limited and not

materially different to that which won the Championship where there were issues ( particularly away from home) and our manager is unproven at this level. We need to ensure we remain in this league first and build for next season and beyond. A top six finish would be an acceptable short term result but we lack the quality and consistency to make inroads on the bigger clubs. 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What other interests in life do you have other than insulting other Hearts fans and belittling our manager and owner ? 

Get a new hobby ffs

 

He's a poster that is all over this place after a defeat but no where to be seen after a win. 

 

Tragic. 

 

 

[OldGorgie]

It’s self evident our manager and his coaches are not up to it. If Neilson wasn’t an exHearts player, he would have been out on his erse a long time ago. Last season we played in a weak Championship and made heavy work of it. Yesterday was an embarrassment and possibly the worst effort I have seen from a Hearts team at Parkhead. What makes it worse is the feeble excuses from Neilson.