Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

The fact you seem to think we can go out and attract a proven manager who will guarantee to improve us shows your naivety.

We’ll have to wait until there’s a position to fill again but why does it have to be a proven manager to be a success?  No managerial appointment guarantees success anyway, not even Mourinho. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

You mentioned Stendels record against old firm, I just mentioned Neilson’s.  Add in his 100% record against Hibs as well. 

You didn’t though - you only cherry picked the last few games. 
 

Neilson’s win record against Hibs is 28.6% (or 14.3% if, as in your previous post we’re not counting what happens after 90 mins, which would also make your 100% figure a 0%).  Damn statistics eh?!

Edited August 17, 2021 by Fozzyonthefence

[Rudi cant fail]

22 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

You need a vacancy first, mate. 👍

 

 

There was when Stendal left

[Beni]

18 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We’ll have to wait until there’s a position to fill again but why does it have to be a proven manager to be a success?  No managerial appointment guarantees success anyway, not even Mourinho. 

 

They have some sort of script to work through, like call centre workers. It goes something like;

 

Name a proven manager to replace Robbie.

 

Is he available?

 

Can we afford him?

 

If he's ever been sacked then he's obviously a failure, so not worth consideration, (this one doesn't apply to Robbie).

 

Can you guarantee he'd be successful?

 

There's no vacancy.

 

I doubt you're even a Hearts fan.

 

Stop trying to destabilise the club.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Beni

[Fozzyonthefence]

21 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

"We should've got gubbed by 5 or 6 on Sunday".  We didn't on Sunday and didn't in the league match either.  Straw clutching.

 

His record was out of 17 games, W5, D5, L7, with a win percentage of 29% and finished bottom.

 

If you don't approach games in Glasgow with organisation you get thumped - ask Dundee.

It’s not straw clutching at all.  Celtic had 35 shots with over 20 in the first half alone while we had 18% possession and zero shots in the first half.  A league 2 team would struggle to be as bad as that first half. 
 

If you approach games in Glasgow camped on your 18 yard line with no ambition you have no chance of getting a result either.  Just look at our record there for proof of that.  Might get lucky and get a 1 or 2 goal defeat, more often than not it’s a pumping.  

[The Old Tolbooth]

27 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

"We should've got gubbed by 5 or 6 on Sunday".  We didn't on Sunday and didn't in the league match either.  Straw clutching.

 

His record was out of 17 games, W5, D5, L7, with a win percentage of 29% and finished bottom.

 

If you don't approach games in Glasgow with organisation you get thumped - ask Dundee.

 

You seriously think that first half on Sunday was organised?

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Beni said:

 

They have some sort of script to work through, like call centre workers. It goes something like;

 

Name a proven manager to replace Robbie.

 

Is he available?

 

Can we afford him?

 

If he's ever been sacked then he's obviously a failure, so not worth consideration, (this one doesn't apply to Robbie).

 

Can you guarantee he'd be successful?

 

There's no vacancy.

 

I doubt you're even a Hearts fan.

 

Stop trying to destabilise the club.

 

 

 

 

 

As opposed to the doom mongers.

 

- Lose a pre season bounce game to Sunderland - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Miss out on seeding in LC while two teams got it after being awarded 3-0 wins due to covid - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Fail to get much possession against a team with far superior players - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Sit back against a team with far superior players - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Throw caution to the wind and attack a team that rips you apart for arsepaper at the back - sack everyone its a disgrace - why didn't you defend!

- Lose against a team you were expected to get gubbed in by a single goal - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Levein is pulling the strings - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Neilson is unproven at this level - sack everyone and get a proven manager!

- Lose your first match against a superior opponent - first defeat in 7 - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Brora, Alloa etc - repeat ad nauseum and go back to point one if struggling.

 

Batshit logic full of contradictions by sad, desperate people.

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It’s not straw clutching at all.  Celtic had 35 shots with over 20 in the first half alone while we had 18% possession and zero shots in the first half.  A league 2 team would struggle to be as bad as that first half. 
 

 

A game is played over 90 minutes and the manager made changes to fix it, which is his job.

 

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If you approach games in Glasgow camped on your 18 yard line with no ambition you have no chance of getting a result either.  Just look at our record there for proof of that.  Might get lucky and get a 1 or 2 goal defeat, more often than not it’s a pumping.  

 

If you go out and attack with inferior players you usually get hammered.  As it was we lost by the odd goal, which was realistically the best we could have expected.

[Beni]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

As opposed to the doom mongers.

 

- Lose a pre season bounce game to Sunderland - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Miss out on seeding in LC while two teams got it after being awarded 3-0 wins due to covid - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Fail to get much possession against a team with far superior players - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Sit back against a team with far superior players - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Throw caution to the wind and attack a team that rips you apart for arsepaper at the back - sack everyone its a disgrace - why didn't you defend!

- Lose against a team you were expected to get gubbed in by a single goal - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Levein is pulling the strings - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Neilson is unproven at this level - sack everyone and get a proven manager!

- Lose your first match against a superior opponent - first defeat in 7 - sack everyone its a disgrace!

- Brora, Alloa etc - repeat ad nauseum and go back to point one if struggling.

 

Batshit logic full of contradictions by sad, desperate people.

 

I've not said anyone should be sacked, except Neilson after Brora.

Just like you. 😉

[soonbe110]

36 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You didn’t though - you only cherry picked the last few games. 
 

Neilson’s win record against Hibs is 28.6% (or 14.3% if, as in your previous post we’re not counting what happens after 90 mins, which would also make your 100% figure a 0%).  Damn statistics eh?!

Just referred to results since he returned. What he did five years ago is immaterial. It’s today that matters. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

A game is played over 90 minutes and the manager made changes to fix it, which is his job.

 

 

If you go out and attack with inferior players you usually get hammered.  As it was we lost by the odd goal, which was realistically the best we could have expected.

Yes that’s true but are you not concerned about how wrong he sets his teams up in the first half to start with?  Like the semi against Hibs, the final v Celtic then again on Sunday.  All 3 were dire first half performances and much improved 2nd half when we played more on the front foot. 
 

I’ve not seen anyone say we should go all out attack, totally gung ho.  There’s a difference between that and a measured approach with organisation and trying to attack with limited opportunities but actually getting some bodies forward.  That Celtic defence is pish yet we failed to test it in the first half and the game was effectively over. 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Just referred to results since he returned. What he did five years ago is immaterial. It’s today that matters. 

Yip.

It was obvious he was going to be given a shot at this season al least for getting us up.

Huge season for the club. For all our sakes, I hope he succeeds.

[frankblack]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yes that’s true but are you not concerned about how wrong he sets his teams up in the first half to start with?  Like the semi against Hibs, the final v Celtic then again on Sunday.  All 3 were dire first half performances and much improved 2nd half when we played more on the front foot. 
 

I’ve not seen anyone say we should go all out attack, totally gung ho.  There’s a difference between that and a measured approach with organisation and trying to attack with limited opportunities but actually getting some bodies forward.  That Celtic defence is pish yet we failed to test it in the first half and the game was effectively over. 

 

I'd be more concerned that he didn't correct those issues?

 

Some games you get your setup right based on how you think the opponents are going to set up, but they surprise you and force you into changes.   Our starting lineup was affected by illness and personal absences, and we don't have a strong  enough squad to cover.

[Diego10]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I'd be more concerned that he didn't correct those issues?

 

Some games you get your setup right based on how you think the opponents are going to set up, but they surprise you and force you into changes.   Our starting lineup was affected by illness and personal absences, and we don't have a strong  enough squad to cover.

While a lot of that is accurate in concept, none of it applies to Sunday.  There was absolutely nothing surprising about how Celtic played, nor how our set-up would play out.

 

The starting line-up was missing one player.  An important one, but in now way did it mean we needed to completely change to having zero attacking intent.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Diego10 said:

While a lot of that is accurate in concept, none of it applies to Sunday.  There was absolutely nothing surprising about how Celtic played, nor how our set-up would play out.

 

The starting line-up was missing one player.  An important one, but in now way did it mean we needed to completely change to having zero attacking intent.

If you’re going to go there and sit in and try to hit on the counter attack you need pace.  Something we’ve been lacking for years now.  Without Ginnelly I’m struggling to think of anyone with decent pace.  Henderson maybe but probably not good enough, especially for a game like that.  It’s an area of the team that still needs addressed. 

[Shaggy2]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

 

You need a vacancy first, mate. 👍

 

 

People being in the job already didn’t seem to bother Robbie. The first of which, iirc, brought him in as a coach in the first place (and STILL has twice as many wins over Hibs).

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If you’re going to go there and sit in and try to hit on the counter attack you need pace.  Something we’ve been lacking for years now.  Without Ginnelly I’m struggling to think of anyone with decent pace.  Henderson maybe but probably not good enough, especially for a game like that.  It’s an area of the team that still needs addressed. 

 

Exactly.  If Ginnelly gets injured we are in trouble.

 

Not long until the transfer window shuts and we need to get our finger out.

[frankblack]

Just now, Shaggy2 said:

People being in the job already didn’t seem to bother Robbie. The first of which, iirc, brought him in as a coach in the first place (and STILL has twice as many wins over Hibs).

 

Pity about the the results against the Hamiltons and St Mirrens which sent us down.

[Diego10]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If you’re going to go there and sit in and try to hit on the counter attack you need pace.  Something we’ve been lacking for years now.  Without Ginnelly I’m struggling to think of anyone with decent pace.  Henderson maybe but probably not good enough, especially for a game like that.  It’s an area of the team that still needs addressed. 

Henderson is just as quick as Ginnelly.   But you don't need lightning pace to play in behind line that high, you need the ability to hit anyone. Could have been McEneff instead of Halliday, Henderson, or push the wing backs forward when we win the ball.

 

All better than sitting 9 behind the ball with Boyce dropping to 30 yard out before launching it aimlessly hoping GMS would chase something down.

[Shaggy2]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Pity about the the results against the Hamiltons and St Mirrens which sent us down.

Pity he had to play the under 18’s most weeks as well (and he never played Hamilton, that was Robbie that struggled to a 3-3 draw there). I’m not advocating the return of Gary Locke or even claiming he’s a better manager but his treatment is why I dislike Robbie. Stabbed a mate in the back, then did the same to another incumbent, whom he didn’t know, but in full knowledge he hadn’t been informed of Hearts enforcing his relegation clause. All after leaving for the mighty MK Dons, a pub team in comparison to Hearts. 
 

He should never have been brought back. Mickey Mouse would have won The Championship for Hearts last year, and probably not have lost to Brora. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Shaggy2

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Diego10 said:

Henderson is just as quick as Ginnelly.   But you don't need lightning pace to play in behind line that high, you need the ability to hit anyone. Could have been McEneff instead of Halliday, Henderson, or push the wing backs forward when we win the ball.

 

All better than sitting 9 behind the ball with Boyce dropping to 30 yard out before launching it aimlessly hoping GMS would chase something down.

Agreed but it’s not just pace we lack, we’ve been crying out for more creativity in midfield for a while too.  We have a guy that can score goals now but we need to be giving him better ammunition than last time we were in this league. 

[frankblack]

Just now, Shaggy2 said:

Pity he had to play the under 18’s most weeks as well. I’m not advocating the return of Gary Locke or even claiming he’s a better manager but his treatment is why I dislike Robbie. Stabbed a mate in the back, then did the same to another incumbent, whom he didn’t know, but in full knowledge he hadn’t been informed of Hearts enforcing his relegation clause. All after leaving for the mighty MK Dons, a pub team in comparison to Hearts. 
 

He should never have been brought back. Mickey Mouse would have won The Championship for Hearts last year, and probably not have lost to Brora. 

 

Nonsense.

[FTH]

55 minutes ago, Rudi cant fail said:

There was when Stendal left

 

The sad fact is there wasn't actually a vacancy, Stendel hadn't left.

 

Ann decided to offer Dundee United a lump sum severance package to release their manager/head coach in order to employ him in our already filled position.

[Shaggy2]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Nonsense.

Which part?

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, FTH said:

 

The sad fact is there wasn't actually a vacancy, Stendel hadn't left.

 

Ann decided to offer Dundee United a lump sum severance package to release their manager/head coach in order to employ him in our already filled position.

 

Is that strictly true, in that DS apparently had a release clause in his contract for relegation?

 

Given his record with us to date, I'd imagine the board felt he was too much of a risk to attempt to get promotion - especially with all the variables floating around with the pandemic.

[Rudi cant fail]

5 minutes ago, FTH said:

 

The sad fact is there wasn't actually a vacancy, Stendel hadn't left.

 

Ann decided to offer Dundee United a lump sum severance package to release their manager/head coach in order to employ him in our already filled position.

Exactly, an extremely poor way to treat an existing employee who had given up his wages to help the club. 

Possibly even quite sneaky from Robbie too, although things like that might be quite common the world of football management. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Rudi cant fail said:

Exactly, an extremely poor way to treat an existing employee who had given up his wages to help the club. 

Possibly even quite sneaky from Robbie too, although things like that might be quite common the world of football management. 

 

Employers make decisions based on what they see as best for the business not necessarily their employees.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Is that strictly true, in that DS apparently had a release clause in his contract for relegation?

 

Given his record with us to date, I'd imagine the board felt he was too much of a risk to attempt to get promotion - especially with all the variables floating around with the pandemic.

Yes, a two way clause which either the club or Stendel could invoke. The club chose to invoke it without informing Stendel.  Not Budge’s finest hour. 

[frankblack]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yes, a two way clause which either the club or Stendel could invoke. The club chose to invoke it without informing Stendel.  Not Budge’s finest hour. 

 

I've learned the hard way in business myself that employers won't hesitate to make those decisions at their employees expense.  Loyalty works both ways, but you always need to watch your back.

[Pasquale for King]

37 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

People being in the job already didn’t seem to bother Robbie. The first of which, iirc, brought him in as a coach in the first place (and STILL has twice as many wins over Hibs).

It wasn’t Locke it was Murray, they knew he was taking over, Locke wanted Gary Mackay to get the reserves coaching role. 
He and Crawford were on the bench in deep conversation the day we were relegated at Partick, seemed strange at the time. 

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, FTH said:

 

The sad fact is there wasn't actually a vacancy, Stendel hadn't left.

 

Ann decided to offer Dundee United a lump sum severance package to release their manager/head coach in order to employ him in our already filled position.

They didn’t put up much of a fight 😆. 

[FTH]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

They didn’t put up much of a fight 😆. 

 

The only hesitation was probably when they stopped and checked the date to make sure it wasn't the 1st of April before agreeing.

[Shaggy2]

27 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Nonsense.

Still waiting on which part was nonsense. Perhaps you’re concentrating on the fact not all our players were under 18 or the deliberately facetious use of Mickey Mouse? 
 

Other than that, the fact he stabbed Lockie in the back (ask Lockie about it) and also DS, which you now seem to accept makes me question his character. 
 

You say business is business, so hopefully it’s not long before Robbie feels the point of the knife between his shoulder blades…

 

…actually, scratch that, as much as I think he’s a bit of a dick, I’d actually like him to keep winning.

[Fozzyonthefence]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I've learned the hard way in business myself that employers won't hesitate to make those decisions at their employees expense.  Loyalty works both ways, but you always need to watch your back.

The club didn’t treat Levein, Cathro or Neilson like that.  Not sure why they did it with Stendel, it was a poor way to handle things especially considering that he had, unlike Levein, given up his wages to help the club.

[Shaggy2]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It wasn’t Locke it was Murray, they knew he was taking over, Locke wanted Gary Mackay to get the reserves coaching role. 
He and Crawford were on the bench in deep conversation the day we were relegated at Partick, seemed strange at the time. 

Wasn’t sure of that part. 100% sure of Locke’s version of Budgement Day, though. 😳

Edited August 17, 2021 by Shaggy2

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, FTH said:

 

The only hesitation was probably when they stopped and checked the date to make sure it wasn't the 1st of April before agreeing.

Hahahahaha, probably put a lottery on as well, have we ever that kind of luck with a manager 🤔?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

The club didn’t treat Levein, Cathro or Neilson like that.  Not sure why they did it with Stendel, it was a poor way to handle things especially considering that he had, unlike Levein, given up his wages to help the club.

Indeed. 

[Rudi cant fail]

15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Employers make decisions based on what they see as best for the business not necessarily their employees.

Haha aye ok Frank. The club has every right to make decisions on managerial appointments as they see fit. The way the whole situation was handled however was shocking as highlighted in the documentary. Stendel could have at least been told that his services were no longer required directly from the club, and not via the media. The whole “ we tried to contact Daniel” line from Anne was amateurish and embarrassing. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Shaggy2 said:

Wasn’t sure of that part. 100% sure of Locke’s version of Budgement Day, though. 😳

All fell in to place on Budgement day, it was probably the right move but ruthless and showed the rift between Leveins acolytes and Mackays. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Rudi cant fail said:

Haha aye ok Frank. The club has every right to make decisions on managerial appointments as they see fit. The way the whole situation was handled however was shocking as highlighted in the documentary. Stendel could have at least been told that his services were no longer required directly from the club, and not via the media. The whole “ we tried to contact Daniel” line from Anne was amateurish and embarrassing. 

I think it was a mate that told him he’d read it in the media, shocking way for anyone to be treated by any employer. 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think it was a mate that told him he’d read it in the media, shocking way for anyone to be treated by any employer. 

 

If you wait until your contract expires, the alarm bells should be sounding loudly that things aren't right.

[Jambo61]

1 hour ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

You seriously think that first half on Sunday was organised?

Organised chaos?????

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

All fell in to place on Budgement day, it was probably the right move but ruthless and showed the rift between Leveins acolytes and Mackays. 

Don’t necessarily disagree, although it would have been interesting to see how Locke would have done the previous season with Gomis, Buaben, Wotherspoon and Boyd, who were apparently lined up pre-administration. The first two did Robbie a right turn and so did Boyd probably, by signing for Rangers! 
 

Sadly that’s all an, “if ma auntie had baws…,” debate. 

[jr ewing]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think it was a mate that told him he’d read it in the media, shocking way for anyone to be treated by any employer. 

Would make a decent manager think twice before joining. 

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

If you wait until your contract expires, the alarm bells should be sounding loudly that things aren't right.

It hadn’t expired.

[frankblack]

Just now, Shaggy2 said:

It hadn’t expired.

 

Are we talking about Locke or Stendel now?  As I understand it Locke's had expired/was expiring when Budge took over and wasn't renewed.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

Would make a decent manager think twice before joining. 

Not really as it’s a cut throat business, they know they’re either waiting for a guy to be sacked. There’s a way of dealing with it though and I’m not sure Budge is capable of doing it. 

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not really as it’s a cut throat business, they know they’re either waiting for a guy to be sacked. There’s a way of dealing with it though and I’m not sure Budge is capable of doing it. 

Poor show. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

Don’t necessarily disagree, although it would have been interesting to see how Locke would have done the previous season with Gomis, Buaben, Wotherspoon and Boyd, who were apparently lined up pre-administration. The first two did Robbie a right turn and so did Boyd probably, by signing for Rangers! 
 

Sadly that’s all an, “if ma auntie had baws…,” debate. 

We will never know but unfortunately for Locke his record after us show his strength doesn’t really lie in management. 
I would still let him have a few minutes with the team right before a derby. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, jr ewing said:

Poor show. 

Me or Budge?Both 😆?