Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

I guess the downside of us winning 3 cups from 98-2012 is the rise of self-entitled supporters that weren't there in the 70s up to 98.

Oh dear.

Entitlement aye?

I grew up watching Hearts from the mid 70s.

You support Neilson I support Hearts .

Suck up shite football if you want .

Hes no idea how to coach a team other than negatively.

Leveins apprentice.

Night night 

 

[Jambo61]

44 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 x ♾ 

 

I bet Dundee consider their 5-0 defeat a week ago less embarrassing than a 3-2 loss.

Laughable,,,,,,,,,said your partner!

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Byyy The Light said:

All my mates who watched it said the same as you so I’m not deluding myself. They were just as raging. That’s how Robbie thinks we can beat them. Play in bursts. He knows if we try and attack them for 90 mins we’ll get carved open.

 

Pragmatically I do agree with him. They’ve got better players, we’ll not go toe to toe for 90 mins and come out on top.

We didn’t hit anything in bursts though, the the two strikers were 30 yards from goal, we barely got out our own half. 
For whatever reason we did much better in the 2nd half, off our own back and should’ve played the whole game like that.

[jambo_74]

30 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Seriously mate........lots of teams get beat regularly, but less embarrassingly!

Last year we were told just because we were best funded we shouldn't expect to beat everyone, they raised their game you know!

We turn up defeated generally against the huns and tic............or has that passed your tiny mind?

Why the insult? Has it occurred to you that Celtic perhaps raise their game even higher when they are playing Hearts and let things slide a little against the so called lesser teams in the league? Hearts have managed a grand total of seven wins against Celtic since 05/06, forgetting Rangers, only Hibs have matched that in the same time period. Next highest is Aberdeen with five wins. Only Rangers win in what could be classed as a regular occurance against Celtic, that's been the case for way longer than I have been on the planet and I would assume it's the same for you. 

[frankblack]

Just now, 160598 said:

Tactics cost fukall ~cove rangers

 

You think tactics is the difference between us and Celtic, and nothing to do with better players?

[Niemi’s gloves]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not at all, we gave them a game for 35 minutes until poppadom hands threw a few goals in. Today we had Gordon who had done great saves before and after scoring an own goal.  

I’ve never understood people who don’t think you should count goalkeepers as part of the overall performance. Clearly we have made progress at least  in the GK department. And at the end of the day, we scored 2 goals which self evidently we didn’t in a 5-0 defeat

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

If you post derogatory terms against posters then expect them to treat you likewise. 👌

If you think happy clappers is derogatory you should catch the posts I’ve been marked absent for, and if you do take that badly that says more about you I’m afraid. Too close to the truth perhaps?

[Hectormasson]

2 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Laughable,,,,,,,,,said your partner!

6 was it not ?

[Byyy The Light]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We didn’t hit anything in bursts though, the the two strikers were 30 yards from goal, we barely got out our own half. 
For whatever reason we did much better in the 2nd half, off our own back and should’ve played the whole game like that.

 

You think it’s a coincidence the cup final and today we had a go second half?

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Maybe if we had Celtic's budget we could aspire for that too?

We had a similar gulf last season, would you say you or the Neilson defenders aspired to hammering the tinpot outfits we played against?

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Byyy The Light said:

 

You think it’s a coincidence the cup final and today we had a go second half?

You think it’s a coincidence that it failed both times? We were lucky not to be 5 or 6 down in both games, these tactics are flawed. This manager is flawed. 

[160598]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You think tactics is the difference between us and Celtic, and nothing to do with better players?

No - but i do think thats the only way to get a result

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, Ked said:

Oh dear.

Entitlement aye?

I grew up watching Hearts from the mid 70s.

You support Neilson I support Hearts .

Suck up shite football if you want .

Hes no idea how to coach a team other than negatively.

Leveins apprentice.

Night night 

 

 

What is Hearts win percentage from then until now at Parkhead, and what makes yesterday worse than the regular hammerings we have had over those decades?

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Maybe if we had Celtic's budget we could aspire for that too?

We could aspire to have outlets defending corners.

We could aspire to when playing teams last season to try and work on movement of the ball attack minded movement.

Work during the week perhaps on ser pieces.

Encouraging our forward thinking players.

You can still coach a team to actually go forward.

Its insidious at the club.

We seem unable to move off the ball going forward.

There is nothing I've seen last season or the first 6 games that shows anything different from the disaster that was Leveins garbage.

Get real

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

No - but i do think thats the only way to get a result

 

I think you have a very loose understanding on how professional football works based on your comments.

[Byyy The Light]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

You think it’s a coincidence that it failed both times? We were lucky not to be 5 or 6 down in both games, these tactics are flawed. This manager is flawed. 

Did you miss my post that said I’m not a Robbie fan boy or the guy to give us long term success? I think he’s got it wrong.

 

My point was questioning why folk are losing their shit so much over a game we’re not expected to win. The double standards are mental and I just don’t understand it.

 

We’ll never beat Celtic 5 times in a season. We’ll get it wrong and get beat more often than not.

 

Bit like how we dealt with Raith last season. They got lucky win, we played them off the park in other games. 

 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

I’ve never understood people who don’t think you should count goalkeepers as part of the overall performance. Clearly we have made progress at least  in the GK department. And at the end of the day, we scored 2 goals which self evidently we didn’t in a 5-0 defeat

I think my post clearly states that the GK made a difference, we played better in the first half under Stendel than we did today was the point. 
We scored 2 in the second half the last time we played them in Glasgow. The performance in the cup final was eerily similar, they just got an own goal today. There was no progress in any way shape or form today from that game, that’s why people are frustrated as we’ve seen this movie before with the same unhappy ending.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

We could aspire to have outlets defending corners.

We could aspire to when playing teams last season to try and work on movement of the ball attack minded movement.

Work during the week perhaps on ser pieces.

Encouraging our forward thinking players.

You can still coach a team to actually go forward.

Its insidious at the club.

We seem unable to move off the ball going forward.

There is nothing I've seen last season or the first 6 games that shows anything different from the disaster that was Leveins garbage.

Get real

 

 

I keep hearing Levein get brought up time and time again on this thread.  He is gone and has no influence or relevance.

 

6 wins out of 7 and you are still greetin.  Suck it up or move on because those numbers won't result in managerial changes any time soon.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

What is Hearts win percentage from then until now at Parkhead, and what makes yesterday worse than the regular hammerings we have had over those decades?

The way we set up.

The way we play.

It's boring and dire to watch.

Do you go to games ?

His style(🙄) is Levein.

It's awful.

You cant win games in your own box.

Even given the financial disparity that didnt transpire last season to our performances.

Why ?

Because our manager doesnt coach good football.

Sorry but it's just dire stuff theres no other way to describe what I'm watching.

I'm off now as I feel like I've been rude to you.

I'm totally fed up with the direction our club had went on the pitch and the buck stops with 2 shite negative managers.

 

[160598]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think you have a very loose understanding on how professional football works based on your comments.

Faiiry nough but i started in 1974 at DCPE, have all my badges, Started Murray Intl metals, support an Edinburgh team HMFC  financially and coached Under 18 football on an Intl level

[Ked]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I keep hearing Levein get brought up time and time again on this thread.  He is gone and has no influence or relevance.

 

6 wins out of 7 and you are still greetin.  Suck it up or move on because those numbers won't result in managerial changes any time soon.

Those results won last long.

4 of them should be expected

1 of them lucky 

None of the performances gave me hope.

Levein is brought up because it's the same style.

I'm definitely not commenting anymore.

No point.

 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Byyy The Light said:

Did you miss my post that said I’m not a Robbie fan boy or the guy to give us long term success? I think he’s got it wrong.

 

My point was questioning why folk are losing their shit so much over a game we’re not expected to win. The double standards are mental and I just don’t understand it.

 

We’ll never beat Celtic 5 times in a season. We’ll get it wrong and get beat more often than not.

 

Bit like how we dealt with Raith last season. They got lucky win, we played them off the park in other games. 

 

 

 

 

No I didn’t miss it. If you had bothered to read the thread you would see that people are frustrated at watching the same failed tactics in a game that we could’ve won, in a competition we never do well in, against a team with an awful defence who i would maybe swap our RB for theirs. 
Probably also sick of accepting mediocrity and still chugging along with a dead duck manager who it appears never learns. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Ked said:

The way we set up.

The way we play.

It's boring and dire to watch.

Do you go to games ?

His style(🙄) is Levein.

It's awful.

You cant win games in your own box.

Even given the financial disparity that didnt transpire last season to our performances.

Why ?

Because our manager doesnt coach good football.

Sorry but it's just dire stuff theres no other way to describe what I'm watching.

I'm off now as I feel like I've been rude to you.

I'm totally fed up with the direction our club had went on the pitch and the buck stops with 2 shite negative managers.

 

Good post 👍🏽

[Byyy The Light]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No I didn’t miss it. If you had bothered to read the thread you would see that people are frustrated at watching the same failed tactics in a game that we could’ve won, in a competition we never do well in, against a team with an awful defence who i would maybe swap our RB for theirs. 
Probably also sick of accepting mediocrity and still chugging along with a dead duck manager who it appears never learns. 

Same old shit been happening for 50 years regardless of what dead duck we’ve had in charge.

 

The accepting mediocrity chat is a lot of nonsense. 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Same old shit been happening for 50 years regardless of what dead duck we’ve had in charge.

 

The accepting mediocrity chat is a lot of nonsense. 

 

 

You just disproved you’re own point, It’s been happening for 50 years so why are people upset about it? I can’t speak for everyone but I’m sick of the mediocrity over the last 50 years against the uglies and even more so the shit show this regime has overseen since the dead duck waddled off to Milton Keynes. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Byyy The Light]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

You just disproved you’re own point, It’s been happening for 50 years so why are people upset about it? I can’t speak for everyone but I’m sick of the mediocrity over the last 50 years against the uglies and even more so the shit show this regime has overseen since the dead duck waddled off the Milton Keynes. 

Cool. Two different takes on the same point.

 

I’ve accepted that being a Hearts fan is like walking in to casino. If you think that Hearts will one day own the casino then fair play to you. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Cool. Two different takes on the same point.

 

I’ve accepted that being a Hearts fan is like walking in to casino. If you think that Hearts will one day own the casino then fair play to you. 

I don’t want us to own it, just win the jackpot as much as possible. We all want that though obviously 👍🏽. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Byyy The Light]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I don’t want us to own it, just win the jackpot as much as possible. 

Just try not get too upset when it doesn’t happen because it’s set up that way

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Just try not get too upset when it doesn’t happen because it’s set up that way

That’s part of the enjoyment, for me anyway 🤪😜.

[TheOak88]

Just checked and we have lost our last 10 games at Celtic Park (going back to 2016). I don’t expect us to win their regularly, and we will take the odd heavy defeat but surely it’s not an unrealistic expectation that we could win 1 out of 10 games there. 

 

Or even if we didn’t win any, at least pick up a couple of draws there. 

[GinRummy]

5 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Last time we visited Celtic Park we lost 5-0 under Stendel. Perhaps losing 3-2 is some progress?

Aye that’s how it works right enough. 

[DG_HMFC]

5 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

Did you miss my post that said I’m not a Robbie fan boy or the guy to give us long term success? I think he’s got it wrong.

 

My point was questioning why folk are losing their shit so much over a game we’re not expected to win. The double standards are mental and I just don’t understand it.

 

We’ll never beat Celtic 5 times in a season. We’ll get it wrong and get beat more often than not.

 

Bit like how we dealt with Raith last season. They got lucky win, we played them off the park in other games. 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I disappointed we lost, yes, but like you said we're not expected to go there any win, fair enough point.

 

What I, and most Hearts fans I've spoken to are disappointed with is the manner in which we approach games. Celtic have a massive budget and are miles ahead in that respect, and it showed, so why, last season, did we not perform with dominance and authority against inferior sides? We won the league, great, but it was a struggle every week against teams who sat in, something we did yesterday and looked shocking doing it. The manager isn't good enough, his tactics, motivation or whatever he's trying to do isn't good enough.

[KyleLafferty]

I love this stuff about attacking Celtic for 90 minutes, fantasy world stuff.

[Jambof3tornado]

6 hours ago, Ked said:

The way we set up.

The way we play.

It's boring and dire to watch.

Do you go to games ?

His style(🙄) is Levein.

It's awful.

You cant win games in your own box.

Even given the financial disparity that didnt transpire last season to our performances.

Why ?

Because our manager doesnt coach good football.

Sorry but it's just dire stuff theres no other way to describe what I'm watching.

I'm off now as I feel like I've been rude to you.

I'm totally fed up with the direction our club had went on the pitch and the buck stops with 2 shite negative managers.

 

Good post.

[Debut 4]

22 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

Am I disappointed we lost, yes, but like you said we're not expected to go there any win, fair enough point.

 

What I, and most Hearts fans I've spoken to are disappointed with is the manner in which we approach games. Celtic have a massive budget and are miles ahead in that respect, and it showed, so why, last season, did we not perform with dominance and authority against inferior sides? We won the league, great, but it was a struggle every week against teams who sat in, something we did yesterday and looked shocking doing it. The manager isn't good enough, his tactics, motivation or whatever he's trying to do isn't good enough.

Agree.  Most of us know you aren’t going to go to Parkhead and dominate or even win all the time, but at least portray you believe you can. There’s a mentality issue imo.

 

We’ve had a horrendous record through there for a decade or so now but there was a wee spell prior to that in the noughties , home and away, where we notched the odd win more regular than in comparison to other periods. 
 

Like us, Celtic expect to win at home against most teams and with their resources it should happen. But it shouldn’t stop us believing we can be the best we can or win through there more often. Too many people submit or make excuses.  What’s happened to punching above your weight?  Hearts have lost those traits over the last few years. Our better managers got scudded through in Glasgow but they got the odd win more regular, or at least had their team being positive , because they had the desire to push Hearts over the time they were in charge. 
 

They never gave up. 

[GinRummy]

28 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

I love this stuff about attacking Celtic for 90 minutes, fantasy world stuff.

There isn't too much of that though. I think most people would just prefer us not to play to Celtic's strengths. 

[bobby bombscare]

34 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

Am I disappointed we lost, yes, but like you said we're not expected to go there any win, fair enough point.

 

What I, and most Hearts fans I've spoken to are disappointed with is the manner in which we approach games. Celtic have a massive budget and are miles ahead in that respect, and it showed, so why, last season, did we not perform with dominance and authority against inferior sides? We won the league, great, but it was a struggle every week against teams who sat in, something we did yesterday and looked shocking doing it. The manager isn't good enough, his tactics, motivation or whatever he's trying to do isn't good enough.

Because the bulk of the team last season was still comprised of the passengers that were more than happy to lose every week in the prem and pick up there wage regardless. That is slowly changing with some of the incoming signings like gordon, McEneff, Ginelly, GMS, Beni, Cochran etc. and the return of souttar and harring. 

Basically, last year we were still full of the same wasters that had no hunger and didn't care about the club. Just lining their pockets. This season, a lot of those players have been replaced with players that WANT to win and WANT to play for the jersey. We might have supposedly had quality and experience in abundance last couple seasons, but this season shows that hunger and ambition wins games. 


I'd also like to point out that although he got it tactically wrong first half yesterday, we have only been beat this season by a Celtic team that has hit form, in a full capacity parkhead with no hearts fans allowed (and we previously beat them 2 weeks ago).. He HAS to start getting these games tactically right but, excluding a loss at a stadium where we havent won since 2009, he had delivered our first win away against st midden in a decade and had us unbeaten in our first 6.

[GinRummy]

Who's failing was having 3 defenders mark their centre forward then he still pop up unmarked to score. ****ing laughable man.

[KyleLafferty]

Games against Celtic at parkhead at the minute shouldn’t define Neilson. What will is our away record to other teams in the league like St.johnstone, Dundee teams, Aberdeen etc. If he sorts that out then we can move on to getting better results through there. If we win 10 away games this year we will be in with a shout of 3rd or 4th. 9 more to get.

[GinRummy]

Just now, KyleLafferty said:

Games against Celtic at parkhead at the minute shouldn’t define Neilson. What will is our away record to other teams in the league like St.johnstone, Dundee teams, Aberdeen etc. If he sorts that out then we can move on to getting better results through there. If we win 10 away games this year we will be in with a shout of 3rd or 4th. 9 more to get.

It won't define him. The St Mirren game was a much better away performance than we've been used to and hopefully we can improve on that. Be interesting to see if the players can lift themselves for Saturday first though, Huge game.

[HMFC 86]

6 hours ago, Ked said:

The way we set up.

The way we play.

It's boring and dire to watch.

Do you go to games ?

His style(🙄) is Levein.

It's awful.

You cant win games in your own box.

Even given the financial disparity that didnt transpire last season to our performances.

Why ?

Because our manager doesnt coach good football.

Sorry but it's just dire stuff theres no other way to describe what I'm watching.

I'm off now as I feel like I've been rude to you.

I'm totally fed up with the direction our club had went on the pitch and the buck stops with 2 shite negative managers.

 

Good post, totally agree.

[Aussie Jambo]

Nielson interview yesterday on his tactics against Celtic. 

(Not to be mistaken with Nielsen below he’s a good guy.)

[Spellczech]

37 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Games against Celtic at parkhead at the minute shouldn’t define Neilson. What will is our away record to other teams in the league like St.johnstone, Dundee teams, Aberdeen etc. If he sorts that out then we can move on to getting better results through there. If we win 10 away games this year we will be in with a shout of 3rd or 4th. 9 more to get.

Very true. However I think it is the approach that is troubling people not the result. We can never expect a result against the OF but we can hope for one. The problem we have is that Neilson seems to be fine as a manager for the second half of games but seldom the first. This wasn't the case in his first spell. In his first spell when in the Championship he was more like Burley, seeking to blitz a team in the first 30 mins and if that didn't work, would rely on superior fitness to get the result in the last 30. Neilson Mk2 seems more akin to Levein Mk2 who seeks to keep it tight for the first 45 in the hope of still being in the game so he can ramp it up in the second 45...The result is that we almost always look like we start games on the back foot and are playing the wrong formation from kick-off.

[Diego10]

1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

I love this stuff about attacking Celtic for 90 minutes, fantasy world stuff.

There's a lot of water between that and setting up with Mackay-Steven as our furthest forward player on the edge of the centre circle with no intent to get forward.

 

The first half tactics yesterday were awful.  When we did win the ball, no-one was available to play it up to.  It just kept coming back in waves.  It's a lack of bravery, because Taylor and Ralston haven't become Cafu and Carlos overnight

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

I love this stuff about attacking Celtic for 90 minutes, fantasy world stuff.

 

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

There isn't too much of that though. I think most people would just prefer us not to play to Celtic's strengths. 

 

Exactly GR. Suggesting we don't sit in right on top of the keeper and boot the ball into touch when we get it or aimlessly towards Boyce isn't saying we should be attacking Celtic for 90 minutes. What we did second half was fine. They still looked very dangerous and more often that not would still have beaten us, but we were in the game at least and gave ourselves a chance. We didn't attack Celtic for the entire 45 minutes though, we just put the right players in the right positions and stepped up the park a bit giving ourselves an outball and some impetus.

 

There aren't two options of park the bus or all out attack. There's a huge array of options in between.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Taffin

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Exactly GR. Suggesting we don't sit in right on top of the keeper and boot the ball into touch when we get it or aimlessly towards Boyce isn't saying we should be attacking Celtic for 90 minutes. What we did second half was fine. They still looked very dangerous and more often that not would still have beaten us, but we were in the game at least and gave ourselves a chance. We didn't attack Celtic for the entire 45 minutes though, we just put the right players in the right positions and stepped up the park a bit giving ourselves an outball and some impetus.

 

There aren't two options of park the bus or all out attack. There's a huge array of options in between.

It's a fair summary that I doubt if anyone who watched the game would disagree with.

 

There is definitely a group of posters on this site who like to work the conversation towards portraying anyone who criticises Neilson as a raving lunatic.

[KyleLafferty]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It's a fair summary that I doubt if anyone who watched the game would disagree with.

 

There is definitely a group of posters on this site who like to work the conversation towards portraying anyone who criticises Neilson as a raving lunatic.

We couldn’t start Gino cause he wouldn’t have lasted. He 100% made the difference. Haring looked lost aswell, so hopefully Devlin will come in and replace him. I just think a lot of people are overlooking at how good Celtic have been recently. Dundee left them so much space and they got hammered. When we did get forward it was through counter attacking. Which probably is the right plan for ibrox and parkhead cause they’ll have most of the ball.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

We couldn’t start Gino cause he wouldn’t have lasted. He 100% made the difference. Haring looked lost aswell, so hopefully Devlin will come in and replace him. I just think a lot of people are overlooking at how good Celtic have been recently. Dundee left them so much space and they got hammered. When we did get forward it was through counter attacking. Which probably is the right plan for ibrox and parkhead cause they’ll have most of the ball.

So we could have started Gino then? We left ourselves no means to counter attack for the entire first half during which they had the ball the whole time,  88 percent. That isn't the best we could have done. Celtic had their peckers up and would have been hard to stop for any side but we need to do better when we get the ball. If you think we played better than Dundee in the first half you are simply wrong. 

 

The second half, on the other hand, was good. Players held their positions and with one or two exceptions done their job well. 

 

Overall, it's not a good game plan to defend from the halfway line against Celtic. It is exactly what they want us to do, we played into their hands.

[KyleLafferty]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

So we could have started Gino then? We left ourselves no means to counter attack for the entire first half during which they had the ball the whole time,  88 percent. That isn't the best we could have done. Celtic had their peckers up and would have been hard to stop for any side but we need to do better when we get the ball. If you think we played better than Dundee in the first half you are simply wrong. 

 

The second half, on the other hand, was good. Players held their positions and with one or two exceptions done their job well. 

 

Overall, it's not a good game plan to defend from the halfway line against Celtic. It is exactly what they want us to do, we played into their hands.

Neilson said Gino had a bug most of the week and hadn’t trained and wouldn’t have got more minutes out him. Might have tried Henderson instead? 
 

See I think it’s a good plan to try and counter attack them cause when their full backs come inside the gaps at the back are massive. You want to suck Celtic in and counter them.

[NB GIN]

Not going to be harsh here cause he did change the formation and they started playing better. What I don’t get is why did he setup this way when it clearly doesn’t work. I honestly think he needs to stick to a formation and leave it far too much pissing about 

Over thinking everytime football is a simple game stop changing formation every week