Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[frankblack]

10 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No, you said it was the players’ fault for missing chances.  I know you were just deflecting the blame from the manager but at least it was an acceptance that it was our own fault. 

 

 

Its the manager's/club's fault winning 4 out of 4 while others didn't?

 

I'm not one of the torn-faced bairms greeting because we didn't get seeded.   Seeking to apportion blame here makes you look bitter and desperate.

 

[Cruyff]

21 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Did you really expect anything different from Neilson?

A leopard can’t change its spots. 🤷‍♂️

I didn't expect him to be as cautious and negative as he was. 

[Mars plastic]

The apologists are like the the flies from that scene in The Dissident. 

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I didn't expect him to be as cautious and negative as he was. 

😳

[Bull's-eye]

Our fight isn't with either of the uglies, to suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.

 

I find myself mildly disappointed when we lose to them comprehensively, which in the main, is the norm. I suspect everybody on here including the trolls feel exactly the same, this is backed up by the near euphoria when we upset the Apple cart occasionally and put them to the sword.

 

I had us down before the game getting a pasting for no other reason than us wounding them big style the other week, unfortunately playing in the Disney league against the same teams every other week, there is little to zero chance of ever breaking the duopoly because at merest hint of trouble the Uglies press the panic button and strengthen immediately. 

 

Robbie probably knows this and the more intelligent players probably have a fair grasp of the reality of it. Losing to either of them doesn't quantify as failure in my book. 

 

Losing points to everybody else in the League does though, then I do get disappointed. 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, HMFC 86 said:

Jeez give your shite a break for once 

[Vlad Magic]

8 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Our fight isn't with either of the uglies, to suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.

 

I find myself mildly disappointed when we lose to them comprehensively, which in the main, is the norm. I suspect everybody on here including the trolls feel exactly the same, this is backed up by the near euphoria when we upset the Apple cart occasionally and put them to the sword.

 

I had us down before the game getting a pasting for no other reason than us wounding them big style the other week, unfortunately playing in the Disney league against the same teams every other week, there is little to zero chance of ever breaking the duopoly because at merest hint of trouble the Uglies press the panic button and strengthen immediately. 

 

Robbie probably knows this and the more intelligent players probably have a fair grasp of the reality of it. Losing to either of them doesn't quantify as failure in my book. 

 

Losing points to everybody else in the League does though, then I do get disappointed. 

 

 

This is a good post 👍

[Ked]

43 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It means they need to be proved right this time, but unfortunately for them . . . . 

I'm afraid this is the most accurate post on this thread.

 

[Pasquale for King]

So the apologists reckon it’s the players that shat the bed in the first half and not Bob, neglecting to acknowledge that it’s his job to give them the confidence to play as they did in the second half 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

[davie1980]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So the apologists reckon it’s the players that shat the bed in the first half and not Bob, neglecting to acknowledge that it’s his job to give them the confidence to play as they did in the second half 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

 

No

[Sertse]

1 hour ago, HMFC 86 said:

Jeez give your shite a break for once 

👍

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

1 hour ago, Tasavallan said:

As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our club and the SPFL, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones, however one thing is for sure Robbie Neilson is not the one.  THAT WE KN0W ALREADY.

 

 

 

With help from Donald Rumsfeld.

[Fozzyonthefence]

39 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Its the manager's/club's fault winning 4 out of 4 while others didn't?

 

I'm not one of the torn-faced bairms greeting because we didn't get seeded.   Seeking to apportion blame here makes you look bitter and desperate.

 

Yet you just blamed the players for missing chances.  Make your mind up, you’re all over the place!

 

Show me where I blamed the manager?  That’s right, I didn’t because I didn’t see the ICT game so I’m not going to blame the manager.  If we missed umpteen open goals though, as you’re suggesting, then yes, that’s the players’ fault.  No point greeting about teams getting awarded 3-0 wins like you were when the other team can’t field a team against them. 

And I wasn’t greeting about not being seeded either - just pointing out that you were barking up the wrong tree for blaming the authorities rather than looking closer to home when it was all within our own hands but we failed.  

 

I’m quite relaxed about losing today.  Thankfully I had other priorities so I only caught the last 10 minutes but I was told I was lucky to miss it.  A 3-2 defeat there shouldn’t harm confidence, although sounds like it wasn’t a true reflection of the game.  

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

 

No

No they’re not?

[fast_blood]

31 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Our fight isn't with either of the uglies, to suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.

 

I find myself mildly disappointed when we lose to them comprehensively, which in the main, is the norm. I suspect everybody on here including the trolls feel exactly the same, this is backed up by the near euphoria when we upset the Apple cart occasionally and put them to the sword.

 

I had us down before the game getting a pasting for no other reason than us wounding them big style the other week, unfortunately playing in the Disney league against the same teams every other week, there is little to zero chance of ever breaking the duopoly because at merest hint of trouble the Uglies press the panic button and strengthen immediately. 

 

Robbie probably knows this and the more intelligent players probably have a fair grasp of the reality of it. Losing to either of them doesn't quantify as failure in my book. 

 

Losing points to everybody else in the League does though, then I do get disappointed. 

 

 

 

Exactly where I'm at. Was expecting an absolute dry humping score-wise. Result was expected so time to focus on Aberdeen. 

[Silvery_Moon]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

And imo for the level we were at that was a poor cup record. 

You are saying his record was decent, considering we were often the 2nd best team in the country imo it was poor. 

Either way it's irrelevant to our situation now. 

 

 

I'll take 2nd and a cup win this season - I'm not greedy. 

[davie1980]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No they’re not?

 

Not from where I'm sitting

 

I'd probably be classed as an apologist.

 

Robbie got it wrong today, the players never turned up first half and probably underperformed, Celtic are a very good team and played very well first half, we were away from home and they had a full house with no away supporters in and we never got any luck or favours (2 minutes injury time at 3-2, after 7 sub, 3 goals second half for instance)

 

Lots of factors and Robbie will take a portion of the blame 

But not as black and white as "the apologists reckon it’s the players that shat the bed in the first half and not Bob"

 

But when you come on JKB and are greeted by the pant wetters telling you it was entirely Robbies tactics, the same people that want him sacked for only winning 1-0 at Inverness and celebrating a win over Celtic by moaning that he let them have possession for 70 minutes, then you defend that by adding some context. And yes the players didn't do their job well enough first half regardless of tactics. 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by davie1980

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Silvery_Moon said:

I'll take 2nd and a cup win this season - I'm not greedy. 

 

That's a plan. 

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Yet you just blamed the players for missing chances.  Make your mind up, you’re all over the place!

 

Show me where I blamed the manager?  That’s right, I didn’t because I didn’t see the ICT game so I’m not going to blame the manager.  If we missed umpteen open goals though, as you’re suggesting, then yes, that’s the players’ fault.  No point greeting about teams getting awarded 3-0 wins like you were when the other team can’t field a team against them. 

And I wasn’t greeting about not being seeded either - just pointing out that you were barking up the wrong tree for blaming the authorities rather than looking closer to home when it was all within our own hands but we failed.  

 

I’m quite relaxed about losing today.  Thankfully I had other priorities so I only caught the last 10 minutes but I was told I was lucky to miss it.  A 3-2 defeat there shouldn’t harm confidence, although sounds like it wasn’t a true reflection of the game.  

 

I didn't "blame" anybody and you have been going round in circles selectively quoting arguments out of context with other posters.

[160598]

17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So the apologists reckon it’s the players that shat the bed in the first half and not Bob, neglecting to acknowledge that it’s his job to give them the confidence to play as they did in the second half 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

I agree. BUT I COULD SHOUT THIS - ITS NOT CONFIDENCE - THERES A DECENT SQUAD THERE IN THE MAKING - THE PLAYERS WERE BEING PLAYED IN A POOR FORMATION - FUKKED FROM THE OFF. IRONICALLY THERE TACTICS WERE WHAT RN HAS BEEN SAYING HOW HE WANTS HEARTS TO PLAY FOR A YEAR

[160598]

9 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

 

Not from where I'm sitting

 

I'd probably be classed as an apologist.

 

Robbie got it wrong today, the players never turned up first half and probably underperformed, Celtic are a very good team and played very well first half, we were away from home and they had a full house with no away supporters in and we never got any luck or favours (2 minutes injury time at 3-2, after 7 sub, 3 goals second half for instance)

 

Lots of factors and Robbie will take a portion of the blame 

But not as black and white as "the apologists reckon it’s the players that shat the bed in the first half and not Bob"

 

But when you come on JKB and are greeted by the pant wetters telling you it was entirely Robbies tactics, the same people that want him sacked for only winning 1-0 at Inverness and celebrating a win over Celtic by moaning that he let them have possession for 70 minutes, then you defend that by adding some context. And yes the players didn't do their job well enough first half regardless of tactics. 

 

I agree but players play where there told to. Theres a weeks worth of drilling it into them. It was 3-2 - they were superb first half - we changed tactics ...........eventually and won the second half - thats tactics only - regards

Edited August 15, 2021 by 160598

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

I agree buy players play where there told to. Theres a weeks worth of drilling it into them. It was 3-2 - they were superb first half - we changed tactics ...........eventually and won the second half - thats tactics only - regards

 

 

No its not. 

 

Absolute drivel. 

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

I agree buy players play where there told to. Theres a weeks worth of drilling it into them. It was 3-2 - they were superb first half - we changed tactics ...........eventually and won the second half - thats tactics only - regards

What?

[160598]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

No its not. 

 

Absolute drivel. 

Care to elaborate - or just post drivel.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

An excuse for still being mediocre. 

 

You're not making any sense. 

 

Who's excusing who for being mediocre. 

What's the excuse? 

What's mediocre? 

 

 

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

Care to elaborate - or just post drivel.

I think he means that the difficulty level of understanding your post, was high.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

Care to elaborate - or just post drivel.

 

 

It's not "tactics only". 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, 160598 said:

I agree. BUT I COULD SHOUT THIS - ITS NOT CONFIDENCE - THERES A DECENT SQUAD THERE IN THE MAKING - THE PLAYERS WERE BEING PLAYED IN A POOR FORMATION - FUKKED FROM THE OFF. IRONICALLY THERE TACTICS WERE WHAT RN HAS BEEN SAYING HOW HE WANTS HEARTS TO PLAY FOR A YEAR

Definitely.
All because we don’t have a CH capable of playing beside Souttar in a 4. Smith could but we don’t have another RB. Both these positions need strengthened in the next few weeks. I still don’t think that will help with a manager that openly talked about and thinks he’s clever in how Boyce is learning more about his defensive work 🤔🙈. 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

It means they need to be proved right this time, but unfortunately for them . . . . 

Classic!

[The Future's Maroon]

50 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Our fight isn't with either of the uglies, to suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.

 

I find myself mildly disappointed when we lose to them comprehensively, which in the main, is the norm. I suspect everybody on here including the trolls feel exactly the same, this is backed up by the near euphoria when we upset the Apple cart occasionally and put them to the sword.

 

I had us down before the game getting a pasting for no other reason than us wounding them big style the other week, unfortunately playing in the Disney league against the same teams every other week, there is little to zero chance of ever breaking the duopoly because at merest hint of trouble the Uglies press the panic button and strengthen immediately. 

 

Robbie probably knows this and the more intelligent players probably have a fair grasp of the reality of it. Losing to either of them doesn't quantify as failure in my book. 

 

Losing points to everybody else in the League does though, then I do get disappointed. 

 

 

👏👏👏

 

possibly the best post on this forum in a long time 

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

 

Not from where I'm sitting

 

I'd probably be classed as an apologist.

 

Robbie got it wrong today, the players never turned up first half and probably underperformed, Celtic are a very good team and played very well first half, we were away from home and they had a full house with no away supporters in and we never got any luck or favours (2 minutes injury time at 3-2, after 7 sub, 3 goals second half for instance)

 

Lots of factors and Robbie will take a portion of the blame 

But not as black and white as "the apologists reckon it’s the players that shat the bed in the first half and not Bob"

 

But when you come on JKB and are greeted by the pant wetters telling you it was entirely Robbies tactics, the same people that want him sacked for only winning 1-0 at Inverness and celebrating a win over Celtic by moaning that he let them have possession for 70 minutes, then you defend that by adding some context. And yes the players didn't do their job well enough first half regardless of tactics. 

 

My point, that you missed, was that whether the players didn’t turn up or the tactics were too negative is that both are the managers fault. You can’t say the players didn’t turn up but not accept that it’s the managers job to get them ready with the proper belief and tactics for the team we were facing. He failed on both accounts. 
All together the manager and the players sorted it in the second half showing that they could’ve started like that, hence the frustration. 
Im not sure 800 mini huns with UJs singing Hello Hello and GSTQ would make much of a difference to the team. 
Im no pant wetter and didn’t want him sacked for not attacking more v ICT, or playing a higher line v Celtic. I have no faith in him as a manager but I realise he’s not going anywhere anytime soon, unfortunately. 

[160598]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely.
All because we don’t have a CH capable of playing beside Souttar in a 4. Smith could but we don’t have another RB. Both these positions need strengthened in the next few weeks. I still don’t think that will help with a manager that openly talked about and thinks he’s clever in how Boyce is learning more about his defensive work 🤔🙈. 

Well apparently Dave Bates is a done deal ????

[160598]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

My point, that you missed, was that whether the players didn’t turn up or the tactics were too negative is that both are the managers fault. You can’t say the players didn’t turn up but not accept that it’s the managers job to get them ready with the proper belief and tactics for the team we were facing. He failed on both accounts. 
All together the manager and the players sorted it in the second half showing that they could’ve started like that, hence the frustration. 
Im not sure 800 mini huns with UJs singing Hello Hello and GSTQ would make much of a difference to the team. 
Im no pant wetter and didn’t want him sacked for not attacking more v ICT, or playing a higher line v Celtic. I have no faith in him as a manager but I realise he’s not going anywhere anytime soon, unfortunately. 

I think when people say he got it wrong somehow turns into i hate the guy. I dont he got it wrong - he admitted it in the post match interview

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

Well apparently Dave Bates is a done deal ????

According to some yes, can’t say I know much about him but hopefully he’s learnt his trade in Germany. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, 160598 said:

I think when people say he got it wrong somehow turns into i hate the guy. I dont he got it wrong - he admitted it in the post match interview

Let’s hope it’s the last time. 

[19052012]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Our fight isn't with either of the uglies, to suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.

 

I find myself mildly disappointed when we lose to them comprehensively, which in the main, is the norm. I suspect everybody on here including the trolls feel exactly the same, this is backed up by the near euphoria when we upset the Apple cart occasionally and put them to the sword.

 

I had us down before the game getting a pasting for no other reason than us wounding them big style the other week, unfortunately playing in the Disney league against the same teams every other week, there is little to zero chance of ever breaking the duopoly because at merest hint of trouble the Uglies press the panic button and strengthen immediately. 

 

Robbie probably knows this and the more intelligent players probably have a fair grasp of the reality of it. Losing to either of them doesn't quantify as failure in my book. 

 

Losing points to everybody else in the League does though, then I do get disappointed. 

 

 

Bang on bud.

[160598]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

According to some yes, can’t say I know much about him but hopefully he’s learnt his trade in Germany. 

Id take Norman Bates over Halkett right now - thought he would've kicked on but seems to have regressed after initially impressing

[stevie1874]

7 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Please tell me when we ever had a good record against them through there?

So let’s just except we’ll go there with no hope? We have the same game plan we had years ago it doesn’t work. Time to change maybe ?

[160598]

3 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

So let’s just except we’ll go there with no hope? We have the same game plan we had years ago it doesn’t work. Time to change maybe ?

Dont be sensible.

[brunoatemyhamster]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

Our fight isn't with either of the uglies, to suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.

 

I find myself mildly disappointed when we lose to them comprehensively, which in the main, is the norm. I suspect everybody on here including the trolls feel exactly the same, this is backed up by the near euphoria when we upset the Apple cart occasionally and put them to the sword.

 

I had us down before the game getting a pasting for no other reason than us wounding them big style the other week, unfortunately playing in the Disney league against the same teams every other week, there is little to zero chance of ever breaking the duopoly because at merest hint of trouble the Uglies press the panic button and strengthen immediately. 

 

Robbie probably knows this and the more intelligent players probably have a fair grasp of the reality of it. Losing to either of them doesn't quantify as failure in my book. 

 

Losing points to everybody else in the League does though, then I do get disappointed. 

 

 

I agree with most of this, and see where your coming from. 

But this was a cup game,and as far as I saw, he set up in the first half to try and avoid a gubbing.

Why? It's a cup game that we're not expected to win. Would it have killed him just once to give Celtic something gdifferent to think about in the first half, rather than set up to let them play their own game..... Again? 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, 160598 said:

Id take Norman Bates over Halkett right now - thought he would've kicked on but seems to have regressed after initially impressing

Definitely, more of a killer instinct required 😱😜. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I didn't "blame" anybody and you have been going round in circles selectively quoting arguments out of context with other posters.

You put it down to “bad finishing” v ICT.  Your words.  If that’s not blaming the players I don’t know what is. As I say, I didn’t see the game so you might be right. 
 

You also suggested it wasn’t fair awarding teams 3-0 wins when their opponents couldn’t field a team yet didn’t come up with a fairer proposal.  The fact is we should’ve had an advantage being the last tie of the round and knowing exactly what we had to do. 

It’s done now though, just the one trophy left we can win now.  At least seeding doesn’t come into that one.

 

[Jambo61]

The good news is Neilson knows what you have to do to compete in Glasgow according to the Evening News. So we can relax, he has it in hand!

[160598]

2 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

The good news is Neilson knows what you have to do to compete in Glasgow according to the Evening News. So we can relax, he has it in hand!

Ill bet he does

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

So let’s just except we’ll go there with no hope? We have the same game plan we had years ago it doesn’t work. Time to change maybe ?

 

Our record at Ibrox and Parkhead has been poor pretty much my entire lifetime and the first thing to consider is the gulf in quality of our squads.

 

Being a realist that gulf isn't going to change anytime soon as they have revenues far in excess of ours.

 

That needs to put in context with those saying today's game was a "free hit".

[Jambo61]

1 minute ago, 160598 said:

Ill bet he does

Like your mind!

[Jambo61]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Our record at Ibrox and Parkhead has been poor pretty much my entire lifetime and the first thing to consider is the gulf in quality of our squads.

 

Being a realist that gulf isn't going to change anytime soon as they have revenues far in excess of ours.

 

That needs to put in context with those saying today's game was a "free hit".

And yet 'teams perceived as lower and financially more limited' achieve better results and performances on a more regular basis than us! Interesting!

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You put it down to “bad finishing” v ICT.  Your words.  If that’s not blaming the players I don’t know what is. As I say, I didn’t see the game so you might be right. 
 

You also suggested it wasn’t fair awarding teams 3-0 wins when their opponents couldn’t field a team yet didn’t come up with a fairer proposal.  The fact is we should’ve had an advantage being the last tie of the round and knowing exactly what we had to do. 

It’s done now though, just the one trophy left we can win now.  At least seeding doesn’t come into that one.

 

 

How many times do you need to be told that my comments were qualified as academic in the one post you chose not to selectively quote from?

 

Do you have difficulty understanding what that means?  

 

As I said you are straw clutching to allocate blame because everything must be the fault of the manager. 

[Rocky jamboa]

On 11/08/2021 at 12:24, Paulp74 said:

Sunday is a good opportunity for Robbie to win over more fans. Hoping we go through there with the right mentality and not our usual bottle job. 

I posted this last Wednesday, hoping we'd play with a bit of belief but deep down, we pretty much all knew we'd get that negative first half performance today - maybe not as bad right enough!

 

Anyone watching celtic this season can see you need to have a go at them and attack their crappy defence. The majority of fans were hoping for that on the match day thread. Why did Robbie not see it? So disappointing the way he set us up and sitting so deep. Plus then taking 45 minutes to change it. 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

And yet 'teams perceived as lower and financially more limited' achieve better results and performances on a more regular basis than us! Interesting!

 

Who are you trying to blame for that?

 

Maybe you should try following one of those teams if you can't hack it as a Hearts supporter?