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Neilson's failings during season 2021/2


lost in space

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4 minutes ago, Ked said:

Can anyone tell me the tactics of our by kicks today?

What the reasoning is.

 

 

I commented on this earlier but was called out. Giving the ball straight back to them every time

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Bazzas right boot
49 minutes ago, lost in space said:

A bit selective there, Tosh. We are 3rd biggest club and European group stage is much harder to achieve now (more rounds).

Criticism of Levein touch a nerve???

 

Nope, but as per the poster I replied too if we can replicate the form of a young CL as manager we'll be doing well. 

 

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We played the game with a wee club mentality and it just doesn’t do it for me.

 

RN has balls the size of peanuts and it showed…..for the third game in a row he’s let Celtic have all the ball and banked on them not taking advantage of the huge possession percentage.

 

Its a real losers mentality imo. It’s no wonder so many fans don’t like him.

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Just now, Newton51 said:

I commented on this earlier but was called out. Giving the ball straight back to them every time

For me it just showed them we had no intent to attack.

We all know Celtic have very good players.

If that's the case why let them have the ball all the time.

 

But I dont recall ever seeing that tactic before smith at one corner of the 6 yard box and Kingsley at the other.

What is that ?

 

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Silvery_Moon
1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Aye, nothing to do with a team full of better players pushing us back and playing well. 

All Robbies fault. 🤷‍♂️

 

The only thing that is abysmal and embarrassing is the Robbie oot Brigade. 

Absolute melts to a person. 

 

If I'm being honest I think the truth about the first half is somewhere in the middle. 

 

Celtic's stars did push us back but my word we were poor. 

 

I've said elsewhere though the biggest issue was not getting the 2nd goal v Inverness which ultimately cost us our place in the competition. 

 

That's Robbie's 8th Cup competition for us (Not including 2020 Scottish Cup) and only once has he made a Quarter Final (League Cup 2015).

 

It's very disappointing for a club like us that should always be challenging for trophies and cup failures are a tag that Robbie is going to always be labelled with unless he can find a way to change that horrendous statistic. 

 

 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
14 minutes ago, Ked said:

No.

Most Hearts supporters I know and all who I attend games with are past greeting.

They are fed up .

Sick of watching shite football.

A lot of us went together in late 70s so we know all about the ups and downs of supporting Hearts.

I dont think I've ever had a period of time watching us that has made me so despondent.

 

I mean what the hell was the bye kick scenario today all about.

My pile of shite as you describe it is the overwhelming opinion of every Hearts supporter I know ,work beside and go to games with.

And not one I know thinks Neilson is the man for the job.

Its dire.

And if we as a club have minimal standards then surely those were met last season.

How he still has a job I dont know.

Hopefully hes not as Inept as Levein.

Do you not think we gave Levein far too long ?

 

 

As I said, big pile of shite. 

Folk in the huff because they never got what they wanted. 

We get beat of a celtic at parkhead and all the howlers who have been quiet for a few weeks come out. 

 

Tragic really. 

 

I'd have replaced him after the final, but we never so I continued to support him and the team as I have every manager. 

 

I don't or didn't whine and greet about it and bang on about it. 

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Bazzas right boot
3 minutes ago, Silvery_Moon said:

If I'm being honest I think the truth about the first half is somewhere in the middle. 

 

Celtic's stars did push us back but my word we were poor. 

 

I've said elsewhere though the biggest issue was not getting the 2nd goal v Inverness which ultimately cost us our place in the competition. 

 

That's Robbie's 8th Cup competition for us (Not including 2020 Scottish Cup) and only once has he made a Quarter Final (League Cup 2015).

 

It's very disappointing for a club like us that should always be challenging for trophies and cup failures are a tag that Robbie is going to always be labelled with unless he can find a way to change that horrendous statistic. 

 

 

 

 

 

We've won 3 cups out of about the last 120 competitions. 

Doddie who imo was a verry good manager was shite in the cups as well. 

 

Hopefully we can improve in the cups but after the last few years I want us in th top parts of the league and go from there. 

 

 

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Fozzyonthefence
14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Dundee United and St Mirren were awarded 3-0 wins due to Covid.

 

Is it fair that those teams got seeded by virtue of an undeserved 3 points and +3 goal average added while only having actually played 3 games?

 

I personally think those points and goals weren't earned so should be excluded from the seeding calculation.  However that is academic.

A bit harsh on us but that’s the rules - what scoreline would you suggest was fair or how should it have been resolved?  It would also have been unfair on the teams that played a game less, not getting a chance to boost their goal difference - no ideal outcome to suit everyone.  We can’t really complain though after they concocted a 2 point deduction rather than 3 last season for fielding an ineligible player which kept us in it. 
 

Bottom line is it was in our own hands to be seeded (having already qualified) going into the last game and we only had to win 2-0 or 2-1 at home to a poor ICT team.   I think we’d all have taken that scenario before the first game. 

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1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

As I said, big pile of shite. 

Folk in the huff because they never got what they wanted. 

We get beat of a celtic at parkhead and all the howlers who have been quiet for a few weeks come out. 

 

Tragic really. 

 

I'd have replaced him after the final, but we never so I continued to support him and the team as I have every manager. 

 

I don't or didn't whine and greet about it and bang on about it. 

I will ignore your summing up of my post.

It's what Hearts supporters I speak with say.

Most of whom support the club in the way it matters most.

Financially.

You support Neilson all you want .

I am expressing my and most Hearts supporters feelings.

You can call it out as a pile of shite all you want but the bottom line for me is that's what I've been watching the last 4 or 5 years.

The last 6 games doesnt cut it I hope I'm wrong but it's going to be more drudgery from this management.

Just a hint supporting Hearts doesnt mean accepting someone who is not up to the job.

 

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Fozzyonthefence
5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

As I said, big pile of shite. 

Folk in the huff because they never got what they wanted. 

We get beat of a celtic at parkhead and all the howlers who have been quiet for a few weeks come out. 

 

Tragic really. 

 

I'd have replaced him after the final, but we never so I continued to support him and the team as I have every manager. 

 

I don't or didn't whine and greet about it and bang on about it. 


You just greet and whine and bang on about Hearts fans.  Every ****ing day, non stop.  You’re the biggest howler on here. 
 

In what way do you support him?  That must mean a lot to him. Most of us go to support the team.  I tend to watch the action on the pitch rather than the dug out. 
 

 

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No One should be surprised that Neilson arrived in Glasgow and tried the tactics designed by his Mentor.

 

It should be no surprise that these tactics yielded the exact same result. Our tactics in Glasgow are a complete embarrassment to a club of our  stature. We are mental-ally beat before a ball is kicked.

 

It shows Neilson is incapable of bringing a team to Glasgow with any chance of winning the game. The fact that this was a cup tie, is inexcusable.

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4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

A bit harsh on us but that’s the rules - what scoreline would you suggest was fair or how should it have been resolved?  It would also have been unfair on the teams that played a game less, not getting a chance to boost their goal difference - no ideal outcome to suit everyone.  We can’t really complain though after they concocted a 2 point deduction rather than 3 last season for fielding an ineligible player which kept us in it. 
 

 

So there we have it - it was bad luck we didn't get seeded.

 

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Bottom line is it was in our own hands to be seeded (having already qualified) going into the last game and we only had to win 2-0 or 2-1 at home to a poor ICT team.   I think we’d all have taken that scenario before the first game. 

 

We played well enough in that game but a mix of their keeper being inspired and bad finishing kept the score down.

 

Its straw clutching desperation to search for someone to blame.

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9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

A bit harsh on us but that’s the rules - what scoreline would you suggest was fair or how should it have been resolved?  It would also have been unfair on the teams that played a game less, not getting a chance to boost their goal difference - no ideal outcome to suit everyone.  We can’t really complain though after they concocted a 2 point deduction rather than 3 last season for fielding an ineligible player which kept us in it. 
 

Bottom line is it was in our own hands to be seeded (having already qualified) going into the last game and we only had to win 2-0 or 2-1 at home to a poor ICT team.   I think we’d all have taken that scenario before the first game. 

Nailed it

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Bazzas right boot
3 minutes ago, Ked said:

I will ignore your summing up of my post.

It's what Hearts supporters I speak with say.

Most of whom support the club in the way it matters most.

Financially.

You support Neilson all you want .

I am expressing my and most Hearts supporters feelings.

You can call it out as a pile of shite all you want but the bottom line for me is that's what I've been watching the last 4 or 5 years.

The last 6 games doesnt cut it I hope I'm wrong but it's going to be more drudgery from this management.

Just a hint supporting Hearts doesnt mean accepting someone who is not up to the job.

 

The last 6 games doesn't cut it... 

 

4 wins in the lc

2 league wins out of 2

1 defeat at parkhead. 

 

😂😂😂

 

4/5 years... Robbies not been manager that term. 

 

You'd definitely be better of taking Bobs advice and go watch man City or the likes if 6 wins out if 7 does not cut it. 

You're in for a long season. 

 

 

 

 

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Silvery_Moon
2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

We've won 3 cups out of about the last 120 competitions. 

Doddie who imo was a verry good manager was shite in the cups as well. 

 

Hopefully we can improve in the cups but after the last few years I want us in th top parts of the league and go from there. 

 

 

Doddie got us to the 1986 Scottish Cup final, and the semis in 1987 and 1988. I know as I was at the games 🙂

 

I'm sure one League Cup semi as well - 1988.

 

Robbie has got nowhere near that - yet. 

 

I don't want him gone (I did after Brora) but would be really nice to have big games at Hampden to look forward to. 

 

 

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

So there we have it - it was bad luck we didn't get seeded.

 

 

We played well enough in that game but a mix of their keeper being inspired and bad finishing kept the score down.

 

Its straw clutching desperation to search for someone to blame.


What part of it was entirely in our own hands are you failing to grasp?

 

And your solution seems to be to punish the opponent of the teams who couldn’t fulfill the fixture.  Strange concept. 

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Jambo in Yorkshire
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

So there we have it - it was bad luck we didn't get seeded.

 

 

We played well enough in that game but a mix of their keeper being inspired and bad finishing kept the score down.

 

Its straw clutching desperation to search for someone to blame.

We didn’t even take a defender off for a forward v ICT, nothing to lose and we didn’t go for it, keeper making saves and players missing chances doesn’t stop the manager throwing caution to the wind and going for the 2nd goal.

If he couldn’t take risks in that game he never will.

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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, Silvery_Moon said:

Doddie got us to the 1986 Scottish Cup final, and the semis in 1987 and 1988. I know as I was at the games 🙂

 

I'm sure one League Cup semi as well - 1988.

 

Robbie has got nowhere near that - yet. 

 

I don't want him gone (I did after Brora) but would be really nice to have big games at Hampden to look forward to. 

 

 

 

 

Considering we were a top 2/3 side for a good number of years our cup record was poor imo, different discussion tho and irrelevant. 

 

Robbie also  had us 2 pk from winning it. 

 

Agree, big games would be welcome. 

If we are at the top end of the table regularly then cup runs will eventually come imo. 

We've Litterally just been promoted. 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, chrisg8 said:

Sadj 🤣🤣🤣

Yes? Got an issue with what I said? Does it not fit wi your stand in the plaza wi your bedsheets position?

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2 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

No One should be surprised that Neilson arrived in Glasgow and tried the tactics designed by his Mentor.

 

It should be no surprise that these tactics yielded the exact same result. Our tactics in Glasgow are a complete embarrassment to a club of our  stature. We are mental-ally beat before a ball is kicked.

 

It shows Neilson is incapable of bringing a team to Glasgow with any chance of winning the game. The fact that this was a cup tie, is inexcusable.

 

How many teams can go to Ibrox and Parkhead and expect a result?

 

You can bitch and moan all you like but their teams are going to beat us most of the time through there and if you had followed Hearts for the past 4 decades you would know that is primarily because they have far stronger squads.  This goes back well before Levein or even Jefferies.  This mentor pish is truly cringeworthy.

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5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


What part of it was entirely in our own hands are you failing to grasp?

 

And your solution seems to be to punish the opponent of the teams who couldn’t fulfill the fixture.  Strange concept. 


As opposed to punishing those teams who did?

 

I'm not the one greeting about being unseeded.

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Greedy Jambo
Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Considering we were a top 2/3 side for a good number of years our cup record was poor imo, different discussion tho and irrelevant. 

 

Robbie also  had us 2 pk from winning it. 

 

Agree, big games would be welcome. 

If we are at the top end of the table regularly then cup runs will eventually come imo. 

We've Litterally just been promoted. 

 

 

The past doesn't matter anymore, we're in a better position financially than we've ever been and it's time to start fulfilling our potential. 

Your last sentence is just another excuse. 

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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, Greedy Jambo said:

The past doesn't matter anymore, we're in a better position financially than we've ever been and it's time to start fulfilling our potential. 

Your last sentence is just another excuse. 

 

Excuse for what? 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, sadj said:

Yes? Got an issue with what I said? Does it not fit wi your stand in the plaza wi your bedsheets position?

You are a belter a love it man 🤣🤣

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Your manager's job is to consistently get the best out of his squad and maximise your chances of winning any game he plays.

 

Will there be times the opposition are much better?  Obviously.

 

The way Neilson approached today's game was like trying to climb everest but no bothering with an oxygen tank and strapping some lead boots on as you leave.  It was 100% guaranteed to give us the result we saw.

 

That's not uncommon in his approach to cup games.

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3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

The last 6 games doesn't cut it... 

 

4 wins in the lc

2 league wins out of 2

1 defeat at parkhead. 

 

😂😂😂

 

4/5 years... Robbies not been manager that term. 

 

You'd definitely be better of taking Bobs advice and go watch man City or the likes if 6 wins out if 7 does not cut it. 

You're in for a long season. 

 

 

 

 

Can I ask if you go to the games?

 

The last 4 or 5 years have been the type of football still practised by Neilson.

Take aside Celtics quality of players.

They obviously are coached to make runs and coached to attack.

We are not.

Our games last season and the last 6 have not seen any pattern that tells me Neilson will take us forward.

As for the jibe about man city I dont know what age you are but I've followed Hearts and supported them through good times and bad.

Wont be told by someone like yourself who cannot talk about the club without insulting the views of us who have for many years supported them.

And yes 6 games doesnt cut it when 4 of them should be expected wins and 1 against Celtic where we got lucky.

And still doesnt make up for the shameful results last season.

 

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Greedy Jambo
2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Excuse for what? 

 

 

 

An excuse for still being mediocre. 

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17 minutes ago, Ked said:

I will ignore your summing up of my post.

It's what Hearts supporters I speak with say.

Most of whom support the club in the way it matters most.

Financially.

You support Neilson all you want .

I am expressing my and most Hearts supporters feelings.

You can call it out as a pile of shite all you want but the bottom line for me is that's what I've been watching the last 4 or 5 years.

The last 6 games doesnt cut it I hope I'm wrong but it's going to be more drudgery from this management.

Just a hint supporting Hearts doesnt mean accepting someone who is not up to the job.

 

Absolutely agree with your posts Ked. We must have the same circle of Hearts supporting mates.:mw_rolleyes:

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8 minutes ago, Jambo in Yorkshire said:

We didn’t even take a defender off for a forward v ICT, nothing to lose and we didn’t go for it, keeper making saves and players missing chances doesn’t stop the manager throwing caution to the wind and going for the 2nd goal.

If he couldn’t take risks in that game he never will.

 

Ifs buts maybes.  Hindsight is wonderful.

 

If the players converted their chances we would have been seeded but that didn't happen.  That is down to the players - managers don't score goals.

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Fozzyonthefence
2 minutes ago, frankblack said:


As opposed to punishing those teams who did?

 

I'm not the one greeting about being unseeded.


Well effectively you are - you’re greeting about teams being awarded 3-0 wins and pointing at that for the reason we weren’t seeded rather than failing to score another goal v ICT.  I don’t have a problem with the 3-0 wins, it’s not like it’s a new concept or anything. And you’ve still not said what your fairer alternative would’ve been?

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1 hour ago, lost in space said:

A bit selective there, Tosh. We are 3rd biggest club and European group stage is much harder to achieve now (more rounds).

Criticism of Levein touch a nerve???


Everytime!

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Robbie lost the vast majority of fans last year and myself included. I was happy when he left 1st time. After Levein,  coco the clown would have been accepted we were that desperate

 

Its only a matter of time until now he's emptied 

 

You're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise 

 

It's simply a countdown now until he's sacked 

 

We all know it, and the longer Budge persists with him,  the more distant we become with the owner. Another year wasted with mediocrity sadly 

 

6 on the bounce now

 

Could be a decade until we sort this mess out 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

We played the game with a wee club mentality and it just doesn’t do it for me.

 

RN has balls the size of peanuts and it showed…..for the third game in a row he’s let Celtic have all the ball and banked on them not taking advantage of the huge possession percentage.

 

Its a real losers mentality imo. It’s no wonder so many fans don’t like him.


In that first half we took the kind of battering you’d expect to see a League 2 side (or lower) take. No possession, no efforts on or off target, no sign that the manager had a clue how to change things. After 15 or 20 minutes of relentless pressure you have to be trying something to stem the tide. Once you’re two down, it’s too late.

 

While I think Celtic have improved in the last couple of weeks, they’re still no great shakes and defensively vulnerable. We made them look very good indeed. That was an embarrassing performance from a club of our stature. 5-0 at half-time would not have flattered them in the least.

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1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Well effectively you are - you’re greeting about teams being awarded 3-0 wins and pointing at that for the reason we weren’t seeded rather than failing to score another goal v ICT.  I don’t have a problem with the 3-0 wins, it’s not like it’s a new concept or anything. And you’ve still not said what your fairer alternative would’ve been?

 

Actually if you go back to my original post on the subject you will see I said it was academic.

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Silvery_Moon
2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Considering we were a top 2/3 side for a good number of years our cup record was poor imo, different discussion tho and irrelevant. 

 

Robbie also  had us 2 pk from winning it. 

 

Agree, big games would be welcome. 

If we are at the top end of the table regularly then cup runs will eventually come imo. 

We've Litterally just been promoted. 

 

 

Not really irrelevant to be fair. I pointed out 4 occasions that Doddie made Hampden in response to you saying he had a poor cup record. 

 

2020 Scottish Cup provided arguably Robbies most important victory for us and shame we couldn't finish the job off but we will never know if we'd have got as far as the semis had Robbie started that campaign - I think we would have lost at Falkirk but that's conjecture on my part admittedly. 

 

I will say this though in favour of Robbie. - Had he been in charge of the 2019/20 campaign we would not have been bottom of the league in March. 

 

He is definitely a 'safe pair of hands' who will keep us at a consistent level in the league - just don't expect to win anything soon. 

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Ifs buts maybes.  Hindsight is wonderful.

 

If the players converted their chances we would have been seeded but that didn't happen.  That is down to the players - managers don't score goals.


Ah, so now it’s our own fault?  Exactly what I was saying.  
 

 

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Certainly don't think Neilson should be sacked, at the end of the day Celtic are a much better side than us technically but, Neilsons tactics first half were a disgrace, totally shat the bed. He parked the bus and that was unacceptable. We were playing Celtic, not Man Utd ffs. We're better than that and we were good enough to play a higher block and create something on the break. 

 

He did make the right changes though, Gino was great, Aaron scored, maybe he should have put Hendo on instead of Walker but Robbie did the right thing 2nd half. 

 

I just hope he learns from this and he doesn't do it again because it was ****ing embarrassing stuff 1st half. 

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Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:


Ah, so now it’s our own fault?  Exactly what I was saying.  
 

 

 

Nope I said it was unlucky. 👍

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19 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

The last 6 games doesn't cut it... 

 

4 wins in the lc

2 league wins out of 2

1 defeat at parkhead. 

 

😂😂😂

 

4/5 years... Robbies not been manager that term. 

 

You'd definitely be better of taking Bobs advice and go watch man City or the likes if 6 wins out if 7 does not cut it. 

You're in for a long season. 

 

 

 

 


Jeez give your shite a break for once 

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Bazzas right boot
3 minutes ago, Silvery_Moon said:

Not really irrelevant to be fair. I pointed out 4 occasions that Doddie made Hampden in response to you saying he had a poor cup record. 

 

2020 Scottish Cup provided arguably Robbies most important victory for us and shame we couldn't finish the job off but we will never know if we'd have got as far as the semis had Robbie started that campaign - I think we would have lost at Falkirk but that's conjecture on my part admittedly. 

 

I will say this though in favour of Robbie. - Had he been in charge of the 2019/20 campaign we would not have been bottom of the league in March. 

 

He is definitely a 'safe pair of hands' who will keep us at a consistent level in the league - just don't expect to win anything soon. 

 

 

And imo for the level we were at that was a poor cup record. 

You are saying his record was decent, considering we were often the 2nd best team in the country imo it was poor. 

Either way it's irrelevant to our situation now. 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
3 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:


Jeez give your shite a break for once 

 

That's one of your more thought out and intelligent posts. 

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1 hour ago, iainmac said:

 

No, not with the Bob Apologists.

 

Don't forget, they were exactly the same with Levein.


Yup the same half dozen JKB mafiosi who slaughtered anybody on here who questioned where Levein was taking the Club - you would think that the embarrassment of getting that so wrong would temper their comments but no they still spew out their personal abuse!

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Nope I said it was unlucky. 👍


No, you said it was the players’ fault for missing chances.  I know you were just deflecting the blame from the manager but at least it was an acceptance that it was our own fault. 

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As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our club and the SPFL, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones, however one thing is for sure Robbie Neilson is not the one.  THAT WE KN0W ALREADY.

 

 

 

With help from Donald Rumsfeld.

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Jambo in Yorkshire
9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Ifs buts maybes.  Hindsight is wonderful.

 

If the players converted their chances we would have been seeded but that didn't happen.  That is down to the players - managers don't score goals.

Managers make changes that affects games, we all knew before the game we had to score 2 goals or more, that’s not hindsight but being happy with a win and a clean sheet was hardly inspiring stuff.

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45 minutes ago, Ked said:

For me it just showed them we had no intent to attack.

We all know Celtic have very good players.

If that's the case why let them have the ball all the time.

 

But I dont recall ever seeing that tactic before smith at one corner of the 6 yard box and Kingsley at the other.

What is that ?

 

Think we do it sometime so mix up playing out instead of hoofs up the park but we took an age to do either 

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The Future's Maroon

How did I know before logging in, this thread would be top over the actual match thread!

 

Yes, horrendous first half/tactics but some folk were waiting on this result purely cos results were going well it was silent? Sad!

Edited by The Future's Maroon
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19 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Certainly don't think Neilson should be sacked, at the end of the day Celtic are a much better side than us technically but, Neilsons tactics first half were a disgrace, totally shat the bed. He parked the bus and that was unacceptable. We were playing Celtic, not Man Utd ffs. We're better than that and we were good enough to play a higher block and create something on the break. 

 

He did make the right changes though, Gino was great, Aaron scored, maybe he should have put Hendo on instead of Walker but Robbie did the right thing 2nd half. 

 

I just hope he learns from this and he doesn't do it again because it was ****ing embarrassing stuff 1st half. 


Did you really expect anything different from Neilson?

A leopard can’t change its spots. 🤷‍♂️

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Pasquale for King
21 minutes ago, Thomaso said:


Yup the same half dozen JKB mafiosi who slaughtered anybody on here who questioned where Levein was taking the Club - you would think that the embarrassment of getting that so wrong would temper their comments but no they still spew out their personal abuse!

It means they need to be proved right this time, but unfortunately for them . . . . 

DFAE9C0B-9C11-4BD2-9A88-CECCC9F64033.jpeg

Edited by Pasquale for King
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