Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[KyleLafferty]

1 minute ago, NB GIN said:

Not going to be harsh here cause he did change the formation and they started playing better. What I don’t get is why did he setup this way when it clearly doesn’t work. I honestly think he needs to stick to a formation and leave it far too much pissing about 

Over thinking everytime football is a simple game stop changing formation every week 

He doesn’t change formation every week. We’ve played 3-4-3 every game for the last 10 games.

[Jamhammer]

11 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

We couldn’t start Gino cause he wouldn’t have lasted. He 100% made the difference. Haring looked lost aswell, so hopefully Devlin will come in and replace him. I just think a lot of people are overlooking at how good Celtic have been recently. Dundee left them so much space and they got hammered. When we did get forward it was through counter attacking. Which probably is the right plan for ibrox and parkhead cause they’ll have most of the ball.

When you defend as totally and deeply as we did and allow them the space we did you will get done 

You have to press them from the off. Get at their defenders. The 60k turn early unless they are flying. Same at Ibrox. We are lazy, slow and played like a junior team first half. Scared of them.

If we don’t have the players to, at least compete with them whose fault is that?

Its an attitude, an inferiority that we have as soon as we get into Glasgow

 

[GinRummy]

Just now, KyleLafferty said:

Neilson said Gino had a bug most of the week and hadn’t trained and wouldn’t have got more minutes out him. Might have tried Henderson instead? 
 

See I think it’s a good plan to try and counter attack them cause when their full backs come inside the gaps at the back are massive. You want to suck Celtic in and counter them.

My point was we had the option to start him and then sub him off when he tired. I don't think Henderson would have been a good option. Fine if you want to set up to counter attack but we were never holding out to half time so why not try something during the first half rather than just wait for them to score. 

[KyleLafferty]

Just now, Jamhammer said:

When you defend as totally and deeply as we did and allow them the space we did you will get done 

You have to press them from the off. Get at their defenders. The 60k turn early unless they are flying. Same at Ibrox. We are lazy, slow and played like a junior team first half. Scared of them.

If we don’t have the players to, at least compete with them whose fault is that?

Its an attitude, an inferiority that we have as soon as we get into Glasgow

 

So you press them from the off, they play round you, then what do you do? How do you stop them once they’ve passed your press? 

[Chaps]

Great another Neilson thread. Just what we needed.

[lost in space]

2 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

He doesn’t change formation every week. We’ve played 3-4-3 every game for the last 10 games.

Who were the 3 "forwards" against Celtic?

 

MODS - THINK THIS SHOULD ALL BE PART OF "NEILSONS FAILINGS" THREAD

[KyleLafferty]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

My point was we had the option to start him and then sub him off when he tired. I don't think Henderson would have been a good option. Fine if you want to set up to counter attack but we were never holding out to half time so why not try something during the first half rather than just wait for them to score. 

Don’t think anyone was waiting for them to score. The plan was probably to stop massive gaps appearing in behind so their forward players couldn’t get in behind. It didn’t work, but it worked at tynecastle. I’d love to see hearts dominate the ball at parkhead and press them but we simply do not have the players nor the money to do so. Contain, contain then counter is what I would do. I think haring and Halliday were a mistake, like I said before hopefully Devlin comes in beside beni and we keep more of the ball.

[Kirky Jambo]

25 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It's a fair summary that I doubt if anyone who watched the game would disagree with.

 

There is definitely a group of posters on this site who like to work the conversation towards portraying anyone who criticises Neilson as a raving lunatic.

It would probably be fairer to say anyone defending our first half approach is on the verge of lunacy. We couldn’t have complained if we were 5 or 6 down. I’d guess we had less than 10 touches of the ball in their half. It was as pathetic a display as you are ever likely to see.

[Bazzas right boot]

It's an incredible read. 

 

Robbie gets it tight from some for a 3-2 defeat at parkhead. 

Stendel was praised for his tactics in a 5-0 defeat. 

 

Posters who used the budget  difference last season as a reason to expect 3/4-0 wins every week are ignoring that logic works two ways. 

Folk have also seemed to have  forgotten we beat celtic 2 weeks ago. 

 

Some posters are just trying too hard to be angry that they are now a comedy act. 

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

27 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

There is definitely a group of posters on this site who like to work the conversation towards portraying anyone who criticises Neilson as a raving lunatic.

 

The same bunch with the same shtick when Levein was running us into the ground.

 

Either stupid, at it, or Hibs.

[KyleLafferty]

1 minute ago, lost in space said:

Who were the 3 "forwards" against Celtic?

 

MODS - THINK THIS SHOULD ALL BE PART OF "NEILSONS FAILINGS" THREAD

Well he would have played Gino if he was fit. But it would be boyce, GMS and Halliday would have instructions to get forward into the box. Would it have been better to play Henderson in the Gino role with more pace? 

 

But every other game it’s been 3 forwards.

[SM Sheffield]

I’m not a Neilson fan but we had players unavailable to start which probably necessitated the changes to the system and starting lineup.

That first half was a disaster and he probably should have changed it sooner but he at least recognised it at half time and hooked Halliday who was beyond useless. Problem is at 2-0 down if playing in Glasgow you are almost certainly already out of the tie. We won the 2nd half and performed much better but it was a missed opportunity I think to have a go at a defence that is clearly suspect. Celtic will concede goals if you have a go and if you put crosses and set pieces in their box.

It’s done and we move onto the next one. Aberdeen next which will be a much better yardstick of where we are as a team. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

So you press them from the off, they play round you, then what do you do? How do you stop them once they’ve passed your press? 

We didn't stop them yesterday though. They didn't have to play round us. How can you criticise a tactic we didn't use when we literally could not have been worse playing the way you prefer?

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I'm such a slavering goon I'm now a comedy act. 

 

 

🤡

Edited August 16, 2021 by Governor Tarkin

[Harry Potter]

5 minutes ago, Chaps said:

Great another Neilson thread. Just what we needed.

wont be the last, least im better today, that 1st half floored me.😮.

[KyleLafferty]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

We didn't stop them yesterday though. They didn't have to play round us. How can you criticise a tactic we didn't use when we literally could not have been worse playing the way you prefer?

Somebody quoted me saying press the defence, so I countered it by asking what happens if they break our press? 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Don’t think anyone was waiting for them to score. The plan was probably to stop massive gaps appearing in behind so their forward players couldn’t get in behind. It didn’t work, but it worked at tynecastle. I’d love to see hearts dominate the ball at parkhead and press them but we simply do not have the players nor the money to do so. Contain, contain then counter is what I would do. I think haring and Halliday were a mistake, like I said before hopefully Devlin comes in beside beni and we keep more of the ball.

Everyone watching the game was waiting on them to score. It was very obvious they were going to. 

 

I agree, Haring and Halliday together were a mistake. I think if you are playing three centre mids they can't be as similar.

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Neilson said Gino had a bug most of the week and hadn’t trained and wouldn’t have got more minutes out him. Might have tried Henderson instead? 
 

See I think it’s a good plan to try and counter attack them cause when their full backs come inside the gaps at the back are massive. You want to suck Celtic in and counter them.

 

 

Agreed, but we did drop a bit too deep and have no out ball in the first half , but celtic were also  very good. 

GMS also went missing which never helped. 

 

This Celtic team does visibly slow down tho after about 60/70 minutes, if it had stayed 2-1 a bit longer we might have got a result. 

They look like the try to blow you away in the first half and if they're not winning after 60/70 minutes they might have difficulties, like they did v us at home. 

 

 

 

[KyleLafferty]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Everyone watching the game was waiting on them to score. It was very obvious they were going to. 

 

I agree, Haring and Halliday together were a mistake. I think if you are playing three centre mids they can't be as similar.

I can’t remember the last time we started with those two in centre mid and it’s worked. 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The same bunch with the same shtick when Levein was running us into the ground.

 

Either stupid, at it, or Hibs.

 

 

Being one of the posters who want us papped so Bob gets sacked quicker  you'd have been happy yesterday, eh? 

 

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, KyleLafferty said:

I can’t remember the last time we started with those two in centre mid and it’s worked. 

I agree. Even against Celtic you need someone who can maybe spot a gap or play an ambitious ball to our lone forward. Haring and Halliday are fine at playing short forward passes and keeping the ball moving but they are limited players in an attacking sense. 

[iainmac]

35 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

We couldn’t start Gino cause he wouldn’t have lasted. He 100% made the difference. Haring looked lost aswell, so hopefully Devlin will come in and replace him. I just think a lot of people are overlooking at how good Celtic have been recently. Dundee left them so much space and they got hammered. When we did get forward it was through counter attacking. Which probably is the right plan for ibrox and parkhead cause they’ll have most of the ball.

 

They had most of the ball at Tynecastle too but the difference in that game is we actually had a go at their weakest element, their defence.

 

Why would we give that same defence their easiest afternoon of the season and not even ask one question until the game was effectively over?

 

Baffling.

 

 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Who's failing was having 3 defenders mark their centre forward then he still pop up unmarked to score. ****ing laughable man.

Tell us whose fault you think it was then. 

[lost in space]

11 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Well he would have played Gino if he was fit. But it would be boyce, GMS and Halliday would have instructions to get forward into the box. Would it have been better to play Henderson in the Gino role with more pace? 

 

But every other game it’s been 3 forwards.

But he didnt (play Gino). Not 3 forwards and I really dont think Halliday can be included as anything other than a defensive mid. Other games - yes 3.

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Somebody quoted me saying press the defence, so I countered it by asking what happens if they break our press? 

Their first goal is what happens. Back three all caught too far forward. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Tell us whose fault you think it was then. 

I don't ask questions I know the answer to but I don't think that one is down to RN. Who's fault do you think it was?

[Fozzyonthefence]

47 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It's a fair summary that I doubt if anyone who watched the game would disagree with.

 

There is definitely a group of posters on this site who like to work the conversation towards portraying anyone who criticises Neilson as a raving lunatic.

The same group of posters who were so wrong and so blinkered in their defence of Levein.  Or just trolls.  Take your pick.  I have a couple of them on ignore and they’ll likely have company soon. 

[Governor Tarkin]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Being one of the posters who want us papped so Bob gets sacked quicker  you'd have been happy yesterday, eh? 

 

 

 

Disappointed at the result, disgusted at the first half performance, but delighted in the knowledge that win, lose, or draw, each passing day brings us closer to the time when the Neilson's band of merry sycophant's are greetin into their cornflakes. The only constant between then and now will be you're contemptible posturing on every match thread on the Terrace.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

21 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

He doesn’t change formation every week. We’ve played 3-4-3 every game for the last 10 games.

Yes but then he has changed that to 5-3-2 away at Celtic. Why? A lack of belief that’s what it says to me. It is poor.
 

I am a defender of neilsons. We’ve been playing well in that formation. WHY do you change it to a more defensive approach at Celtic. To get an extra pair of legs in midfield. Haring, a decision that did absolutely nothing but invite them to send an extra man into our half

 

There is no formation in football I despise more than 5-3-2. Absolute scummy, shite, pish, hate it and would like to outlaw it from our club ever being allowed to play it. 

[frankblack]

52 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It's a fair summary that I doubt if anyone who watched the game would disagree with.

 

There is definitely a group of posters on this site who like to work the conversation towards portraying anyone who criticises Neilson as a raving lunatic.

 

There are a group of posters who act like raving lunatics wanting Hearts to sack everybody after every disappointing result, or even a bounce game like Sunderland.

 

Anything and everything negative is repeated ad nauseum as though it is going to make some sort of difference.

[Beni]

2 hours ago, KyleLafferty said:

I love this stuff about attacking Celtic for 90 minutes, fantasy world stuff.

 

Has anyone said that? 

Why not just quote the post(s) you are referring to, so everyone knows what you're talking about.

Although it's certainly easy to beat an argument you've just made up.

Let me give you an example.

 

I love this stuff about Robbie Neilson being the best football manager in history, fantasy world stuff.

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Disappointed at the result, disgusted at the first half performance, but delighted in the knowledge that win, lose, or draw, each passing day brings us closer to the time when the Neilson's band of merry sycophant's are greetin into their cornflakes. The only constant between then and now will be you're contemptible posturing on every match thread on the Terrace.

 

Do you cry a wee bit Everytime Hearts win under the Bobmeister? 

 

 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

There are a group of posters who act like raving lunatics wanting Hearts to sack everybody after every disappointing result, or even a bounce game like Sunderland.

 

Anything and everything negative is repeated ad nauseum as though it is going to make some sort of difference.

I agree. These posters are pulled up by maybe three to four posters every single day. So you've got one group who will defend RN at all costs, just the same when Levein was in charge and another group who want RN out regardless, just like when Levein was in charge. 

 

IMO, both groups are incapable of thinking for themselves and just twist things to suit their argument, are incredibly touchy, take themselves way too seriously and reduce any debate about tactics, formations, individual player performances or indeed the managers plus or minus points to a childish squabble which invariably ends up with one or the other being called out as hibs fans.

 

Every day,

[broxburnjambo]

We have played 3-4-3 for weeks and it was clearly working ( albeit the football is sometimes hard to watch). Nielson changed it to a 5-3-2 yesterday and look what happened. We headed to Glasgow 1 down before a ball was kicked.

 

Its just not Nielson though is it. We have had this mentality for years when visiting the old Firm in Glasgow. 

 

If you set up with a negative attitude you will almost always fail. 

[Rogue Daddy]

35 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

When you defend as totally and deeply as we did and allow them the space we did you will get done 

You have to press them from the off. Get at their defenders. The 60k turn early unless they are flying. Same at Ibrox. We are lazy, slow and played like a junior team first half. Scared of them.

If we don’t have the players to, at least compete with them whose fault is that?

Its an attitude, an inferiority that we have as soon as we get into Glasgow

 

100% this ☝️

 

I didn't see the game yesterday but I was at Tynie a couple of weeks ago. From the off, Celtic had 2 men camped on the edge of our box at a goal kick... we didn't do this until around the 70 minute that day (after the substitutions)... almost immediately, we were giving them a game. I'm guessing yesterday was something similar in the second half. Allowing the uglies to 'have the ball' is NEVER going to end well... as I said elsewhere, the stats from yesterday are embarrassing. You would expect these stats for a Cowdenbeath or Stirling albion game at CP, not us!

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I agree. These posters are pulled up by maybe three to four posters every single day. So you've got one group who will defend RN at all costs, just the same when Levein was in charge and another group who want RN out regardless, just like when Levein was in charge. 

 

IMO, both groups are incapable of thinking for themselves and just twist things to suit their argument, are incredibly touchy, take themselves way too seriously and reduce any debate about tactics, formations, individual player performances or indeed the managers plus or minus points to a childish squabble which invariably ends up with one or the other being called out as hibs fans.

 

Every day,

Typical Hibs fan type post. ☹️

[GinRummy]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Typical Hibs fan type post. ☹️

😀👍

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, broxburnjambo said:

We have played 3-4-3 for weeks and it was clearly working ( albeit the football is sometimes hard to watch). Nielson changed it to a 5-3-2 yesterday and look what happened. We headed to Glasgow 1 down before a ball was kicked.

 

Its just not Nielson though is it. We have had this mentality for years when visiting the old Firm in Glasgow. 

 

If you set up with a negative attitude you will almost always fail. 

Folk wouldn’t even be as bothered if we’d gone there and got beat while at least playing our own game, which has been going well for us. Back yourself. We know Celtic have got the better players. But if you play 5-3-2 against them with Hearts you’re ****ed basically, that is the most flattering scoreline I’ve ever seen hearts get in a game so it concerns me that might delude Neilson into thinking things went well. We could’ve had no complaints at conceding 5-6-7 goals. Unless you’ve got 3 really strong Center half good defenders, where defending is their strong suit.  Which we don’t have. All that formation does is, immediately invite the opposition to send an extra man into your half as they’ve got absolutely nothing to worry about at the back. Hate it. 
 

If we’d stuck with 3-4-3, we would probably still got beat, you hold your hands up they’ve got £15m worth of strikers end of the day. But at least you come home having backed yourself and your way of playing you’re trying to install. 

[Sherbet]

4 minutes ago, broxburnjambo said:

We have played 3-4-3 for weeks and it was clearly working ( albeit the football is sometimes hard to watch). Nielson changed it to a 5-3-2 yesterday and look what happened. We headed to Glasgow 1 down before a ball was kicked.

 

Its just not Nielson though is it. We have had this mentality for years when visiting the old Firm in Glasgow. 

 

If you set up with a negative attitude you will almost always fail. 

This was a cup tie.  A draw was no use unless you get to penalties. You will never win anything unless you are brave or very lucky.  We should adopt an all white strip for playing in glasgow.

[lost in space]

3 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

100% this ☝️

 

I didn't see the game yesterday but I was at Tynie a couple of weeks ago. From the off, Celtic had 2 men camped on the edge of our box at a goal kick... we didn't do this until around the 70 minute that day (after the substitutions)... almost immediately, we were giving them a game. I'm guessing yesterday was something similar in the second half. Allowing the uglies to 'have the ball' is NEVER going to end well... as I said elsewhere, the stats from yesterday are embarrassing. You would expect these stats for a Cowdenbeath or Stirling albion game at CP, not us!

You will probably find that the Robbie Fan Club will tell you that stats dont matter and the only stat that matters is the close 3-2 final score. However when you quote Neilsons failure against ICT - they will say "Aye, but look at the stats....."

They are amusing.

[soonbe110]

26 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don't ask questions I know the answer to but I don't think that one is down to RN. Who's fault do you think it was?

Players, particularly Halkett. At fault with first two goals yesterday. No way they were coached to go crowding round one player like you see in school playgrounds. 

[Bazzas right boot]

16 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Yes but then he has changed that to 5-3-2 away at Celtic. Why? A lack of belief that’s what it says to me. It is poor.
 

I am a defender of neilsons. We’ve been playing well in that formation. WHY do you change it to a more defensive approach at Celtic. To get an extra pair of legs in midfield. Haring, a decision that did absolutely nothing but invite them to send an extra man into our half

 

There is no formation in football I despise more than 5-3-2. Absolute scummy, shite, pish, hate it and would like to outlaw it from our club ever being allowed to play it. 

 

 

Self belief or acknowledgment that celtic are the better team? 

 

532 is OK if your midfielders hold their position and your out ball ( Boycey and GMS hold the ball up and make runs. 

Haring also made a big difference at Tynecastle when he came on so I understand him starting.

 

We dropped too deep tho and some players, GMS in particular went missing. 

 

3 at the back is an issue when the other team has 1 striker as well imo.

 

The reality is celtic ( and rangers) will batter a lot of teams this year as they are simply a level above the others. 

 

 

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, lost in space said:

You will probably find that the Robbie Fan Club will tell you that stats dont matter and the only stat that matters is the close 3-2 final score. However when you quote Neilsons failure against ICT - they will say "Aye, but look at the stats....."

They are amusing.

It’s mystifying. We should have battered ICT in the last 10 mins to avoid a possible tie like yesterday. Much like what they did to us yesterday. They looked like their lives depended on it the way they were going into tackles etc.

Could easily have been avoided.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Players, particularly Halkett. At fault with first two goals yesterday. No way they were coached to go crowding round one player like you see in school playgrounds. 

The first goal was laughable. The one player I didn't expect to find himself in space was Eduard. 

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Self belief or acknowledgment that celtic are the better team? 

 

532 is OK if your midfielders hold their position and your out ball ( Boycey and GMS hold the ball up and make runs. 

Haring also made a big difference at Tynecastle when he came on so I understand him starting.

 

We dropped too deep tho and some players, GMS in particular went missing. 

 

3 at the back is an issue when the other team has 1 striker as well imo.

 

The reality is celtic ( and rangers) will batter a lot of teams this year as they are simply a level above the others. 

 

 

Based on evidence so far Celtic will score for fun this season if they avoid injuries. 
First half yesterday was excellent.  If they play like that in a couple of weeks time Gerrard will be getting his coat. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Boab said:

It’s mystifying. We should have battered ICT in the last 10 mins to avoid a possible tie like yesterday. Much like what they did to us yesterday. They looked like their lives depended on it the way they were going into tackles etc.

Could easily have been avoided.

We played well enough against Inverness and should have had the second goal. Some days they just don't go in.

[soonbe110]

Just now, GinRummy said:

The first goal was laughable. The one player I didn't expect to find himself in space was Eduard. 

Neilson wouldn’t have expected him to be in space all on his own either given we set up with a spare man (Halkett) at the back. But he went charging up the park for no apparent reason. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

The first goal was laughable. The one player I didn't expect to find himself in space was Eduard. 

 

I said before the season kicked off that Halkett isn't up to it at this level.  We need to get a solid centre-half in as a priority for these types of away fixtures where the defence is going to be tested.

[GinRummy]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Neilson wouldn’t have expected him to be in space all on his own either given we set up with a spare man (Halkett) at the back. But he went charging up the park for no apparent reason. 

He did. Given how deep we were it's a ridiculous situation to be in. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

I said before the season kicked off that Halkett isn't up to it at this level.  We need to get a solid centre-half in as a priority for these types of away fixtures where the defence is going to be tested.

I agree. He has improved in the 3 but when we are under that sort of intense pressure he just can't keep it together.