Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

Let's be honest here. Celtic are good. If we'd attacked wth that first team we'd have been absolutely skelped.

 

Given Ginnelly was fit for 45 mins though, there's valid criticism that we should have played him and got at them from the start instead of the start of the 2nd half. However, if he was only fit for a half, that could also have simply seen what happen din the game reversed in terms of how each half went.

 

 

Many teams are going to get hammered at Parkhead this season, as most won't see that much of the ball.

 

The desperation on here to downplay how strong their squad is staggering.

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Another reading is he's proven many times that he doesn't ask players to do things they can't do. We didn't have the players today to go at Celtic. Or who would you have picked?

Thats not true though , we did have the players to press today. Be it due to losing gnando n gino we stepped off them and let them come at us , we dropped too deep we never looked like having an outball first half.

[The Mercer Takeover]

Just now, PhoenixHearts said:

Are you talking about the Scottish cup final we played our way back into and lost on penalties?

The game was lost in the first half, due to horrific tactics.

[Gambo]

3 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

Are you talking about the Scottish cup final we played our way back into and LOST on penalties?

Learnt hee haw from that day.

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, The Mercer Takeover said:

Neilson simply doesn't have the bottle to cut it as a quality manager. 

 

The slightest opportunity to revert to percentage, defensive football, he grabs it.

 

We have all seen it before. Last season's Scottish Cup final was a classic example. That game was lost before it even started and a horrific first half sealed our fate.

 

Today showed us probably the worst 45 minutes of football I have seen in 50+ years. He should have been sacked on the spot at half time. We will will nothing with him in charge.

 

Away from home he will revert to type with, dull, slow, predictable, defensive football, looking for draws. Simply not acceptable.

 

Seen it all before.

 

Neilson must go now.

 

 

Sacked on the spot of half time.   

 

Aye, that’s always happening at football matches.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We wouldn't play like that against other teams though. Personnel changes had a big say in how we set up today. It sounds like the original intention was to be more positive. A fully fit Ginnelly playing from the start could have made a difference but we still would have been under the cosh - like most teams will be against Celtic this season. Maybe that was Neilson's mistake today - not playing Ginnelly from the start and keeping Walker as the impact player instead.

 

All I'm saying is Celtic were not excellent the way some are making out. They were there for the taking, we made then look world beaters by giving them all the time and space they needed to play their game. That's entirely on us and our approach to the game.

 

We're ludicrously short of wingers and strikers for the formations we're trying to play. If only the transfer window had been open for 6 weeks...

[CostaJambo]

Diddy cup just a sideshow this season, needs more league games before we decide his worth IMO.

[1971fozzy]

Yawn.

 

maybe give him a round of fixtures ?  

Edited August 15, 2021 by 1971fozzy

[sadj]

1 minute ago, leginten said:

So many similarities with the last Cup final, including the fact that Celtic are still weak defensively. If anything we were far worse today than in the first half at Hampden. The half-time scoreline could and probably should have been utterly embarrassing for us. Seems to me that RN doesn’t learn.

He said wed only get 60/70 mins out of gino today. His thought is obvs defend first try gino after. Id have gone gino first…we could easily have been in the game or ahead flipping the script. Yh we were shocking first half

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Thats not true though , we did have the players to press today. Be it due to losing gnando n gino we stepped off them and let them come at us , we dropped too deep we never looked like having an outball first half.

 

Something we need to learn from.  Boyce does tend to fall back at times, and we need a player to give us the out ball.

[ri Alban]

 

 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, sadj said:

Thats not true though , we did have the players to press today. Be it due to losing gnando n gino we stepped off them and let them come at us , we dropped too deep we never looked like having an outball first half.

 

Press in a defensive sense maybe. I think we hoped it would go the same way as the last game and we did at least avoid the skelping better managers than Neilson have been on the end of at CP. 

 

We probably have a good enough squad to be pretty strong against most teams this season. We do need more attacking WBs and some extra firepower off the bench though against the likes of Celtic and Rangers. Losing Boyce through injury for example would be a disaster.

Edited August 15, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[JackLadd]

Gordon kept it respectable. RN hasn't got a clue 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Perhaps, though for me, and many others, we got it wrong tactically. That’s why the first half was so bad. 

Prob a bit of tactics n a bit of players not doing as asked/needed

[Scott Leitch]

6 minutes ago, sadj said:

Awesome so a newbie who isnt a newbie and who just likes snydey remarks sure we will discover your previous moniker 🤣.
 

You didn’t debate. You said hes a shitebag , hasnt learnt from the cup final. Attacked second half n showed what we can do. Them called the poster a daftie because he doesnt agree with you

 

 

I can assure you I have never been here before. I did call him a dafty but only after he had a go at me. Not allowed to give some back on here? 

 

Out of interest what part of what I said do you disagree with? Neilson is a coward and learnt nothing from sitting off Celtic in the first half of the cup final. He cost us then and he's cost us today. Now maybe that isn't a big deal to you but it's infuriating to me. We deserve better than what he is giving us. Anyone watching that first half can't in anyway defend Neilson. That was the worst performance I've ever witnessed by us in the first half at Parkhead. He changes it (same as the final) and low and behold we look dangerous. Football doesn't have to be this difficult my friend. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Scott Leitch

[The Real Maroonblood]

19 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

His tactics first half were a disgrace to the club. Embarrassing. Hopefully he learns. 

The clown will never learn.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

All I'm saying is Celtic were not excellent the way some are making out. They were there for the taking, we made then look world beaters by giving them all the time and space they needed to play their game. That's entirely on us and our approach to the game.

 

We're ludicrously short of wingers and strikers for the formations we're trying to play. If only the transfer window had been open for 6 weeks...

 

I think their early season form is misleading. They don't need to be strong defensively with that attacking talent. They really were very good going forward today. I see what you're getting at, but if we attacked amore we'd have given their attackers even more space. It's a tricky one tactically. I would also llove us to attack in Glasgow but I also know how that could easily lead to a very embarrassing defeat.

Edited August 15, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

Gordon kept it respectable. RN hasn't got a clue 

Apart from scoring the third goal 😂

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Prob a bit of tactics n a bit of players not doing as asked/needed

Certain players got out under more pressure they could cope with and heads went up their arse. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Scott Leitch said:

 

 

I can assure you I have never been here before. I did call him a dafty but only after he had a go at me. Not allowed to give some back on here? 

 

Out of interest what part of what I said do you disagree with? Neilson is a coward and learnt nothing from sitting off Celtic in the first half of the cup final. He cost us then and he's cost us today. Now maybe that isn't a big deal to you but it's infuriating to me. We deserve better than what he is giving us. Anyone watching that first half can't in anyway defend Neilson. That was the worst performance I've ever witnessed by us in the first half. He changes it (same as the final) and low and behold we look dangerous. Football doesn't have to be this difficult my friend. 

 

 

Wow. You make football sound so easy. You're basically saying if we'd payed in the 1st half like we did in the 2nd of both the cup final and this game we'd have won. Maybe but maybe not, given Celtic would still be very dominant and we could ru. out of steam in the 2nd half.

[kila]

15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

See my other reply.

 

You need to be able to go to Parkhead and withstand the initial onslaught from them before you get into the game.  Our players aren't good enough.

You didn’t even see the game

Your pal Robbie isn’t good enough I’m afraid.

[Fort Vallance]

8 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

That’s the biggest cop out I’ve ever read. We lose big games under Neilson because he doesn’t ask players to do things they cant 😂😂
 

I’d have picked a half fit ginnelly and tried to win game before taking him off, rather than waiting until game was effectively over. If not play at least one of walker, McEneff or Henderson. Don’t play 5 defenders and 3 defensive midfielders and wait to get picked off. As shown again today, it doesn’t work. 

 

glad you’re ok with another cup exit though. 

Bang on.

[Diego10]

The first half set-up was criminal.  Doubly so because that Celtic team are awful at the back.  Even the most basic ball over the top got us a goal.

 

Maybe we'd have been out the game at half time having a go, maybe not.  But effectively playing a back 10 isn't going to get you anywhere

[loveofthegame]

13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We don't lose all our big games under Neilson though. What exactly have McEneff and Henderson done to make you think they'd make a difference in a game against a good Celtic team on their patch?

That was a horsing in all but score line (75% possession, 35 shots) Craigy Gordon and some decent blocks only thing that saved us a humiliating defeat. Which we’ve all seen time and time again at Parkhead. But, and it’s a big but, the second half showed they could be got at and are vulnerable at the back if you get at them.

 

the set up today played right into their hands, no ability to get out and get at their very average back 4, allowed them to play their way into the game and by time we changed it we were only lucky not to be 4/5 down. 
 

Ginnelly was the answer as others have said. He should started, get on the front foot, make Celtic nervous, try get in front. Fans on their back. Maybe then it’s a completely different game. 
 

If Ginnelly isn’t fit (he clearly was for at least a half), Henderson has some legs at least to try do that job first half.

 

i don’t think it’s too much to try to ask for something new. Go, set up to try not to lose by inviting Celtic on to us, lose. Funny that eh?!

 

As for all our big games, ever since the Championship winning season (the first time), Neilson has set up negatively away from home in big games. I and I’d suggest the majority are fed up of that. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by loveofthegame

[Scott Leitch]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Wow. You make football sound so easy. You're basically saying if we'd payed in the 1st half like we did in the 2nd of both the cup final and this game we'd have won. Maybe but maybe not, given Celtic would still be very dominant and we could ru. out of steam in the 2nd half.

 

We gave Celtic a 2 goal start in both games with being set up negatively. That's facts. 

[Fort Vallance]

3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The clown will never learn.

He's a shitebag and he always will be. 

[frankblack]

Just now, kila said:

You didn’t even see the game

 

 

 

Yeah, its my fault the channel got disabled I paid for.

 

 

Just now, kila said:

Your pal Robbie isn’t good enough I’m afraid.

 

 

Maybe you can get your pal Pep in and we will win the CL in a couple of years...

[Mr Rabbit]

The first half was disappointing based on how much better we’ve been playing 3-4-3. Switching Ginnelly for another defensive player was always going to end up with them dominating. 
 

The second half had shades on the cup final although unfortunately the third goal sunk us. Gordon has been class for us since he’s been back so can’t be faulted but he really can’t kick with his right foot.

 

The reaction from a lot on here though has been predictable though 😂 

[loveofthegame]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

All I'm saying is Celtic were not excellent the way some are making out. They were there for the taking, we made then look world beaters by giving them all the time and space they needed to play their game. That's entirely on us and our approach to the game.

 

We're ludicrously short of wingers and strikers for the formations we're trying to play. If only the transfer window had been open for 6 weeks...

Celtic looked like Barcelona first half because our tactics allowed it. No other reason. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk wanting a Hearts manager punted for getting beat by  a goal in Glasgow. 

😂😂😂😂

 

Absolute melons 

 

Bob was right, they do need to go and watch man citeh. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[Cruyff]

Just now, Scott Leitch said:

 

We gave Celtic a 2 goal start in both games with being set up negatively. That's facts. 

There's setting up to hit on the counter then there is parking the bus. Robbie parked the bus. That was unacceptable anyway you look at it and no amount of Torque spin will change that fact. 👍

[frankblack]

Just now, Mr Rabbit said:

The first half was disappointing based on how much better we’ve been playing 3-4-3. Switching Ginnelly for another defensive player was always going to end up with them dominating. 
 

The second half had shades on the cup final although unfortunately the third goal sunk us. Gordon has been class for us since he’s been back so can’t be faulted but he really can’t kick with his right foot.

 

The reaction from a lot on here though has been predictable though 😂 

 

 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Scott Leitch said:

 

 

I can assure you I have never been here before. I did call him a dafty but only after he had a go at me. Not allowed to give some back on here? 

 

Out of interest what part of what I said do you disagree with? Neilson is a coward and learnt nothing from sitting off Celtic in the first half of the cup final. He cost us then and he's cost us today. Now maybe that isn't a big deal to you but it's infuriating to me. We deserve better than what he is giving us. Anyone watching that first half can't in anyway defend Neilson. That was the worst performance I've ever witnessed by us in the first half at Parkhead. He changes it (same as the final) and low and behold we look dangerous. Football doesn't have to be this difficult my friend. 

Had a go at ya 🤣 i do not believe for a second you havent been here before but fire on.

 

I dont think he is a coward , I think it was a mix of tactics and players not performing as required. We deserve better do we 6 wins out of 7 should be 7 🤷🏻‍♂️ What does that even Mean. 
 

Yes the first half was disgraceful but that was down to two things not just Robbie is bad as you are saying .

 

Aye football is simple , i assume youll be taking over from Robbie this week as its so simple

[Taffin]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think their early season form is misleading. They don't need to be strong defensively with that attacking talent. They really were very good going forward today. I see what you're getting at, but if we attacked amore we'd have given their attackers even more space. It's a tricky one tactically. I would also llove us to attack in Glasgow but I also know how that could easily lead to a very embarrassing defeat.

 

I actually struggle to think how we could have given them more space than we already did first half. They were poor going forward today imo, the chances we gave them, if they were really good would have seen us 5 or 6 down by half time. We're lucky that they aren't really good going forward. I don't see it as a coincidence that we were much better second half and on the rack a lot less when we actually did play some kind of football and have an outball and get up the pitch.

 

Sure, we attack and lose 5-0 sometimes but now again we might win.

 

Play like we did first half today and we'll lose every single time.

 

I'm not saying go gung-ho but at least give ourselves a fighting chance of getting something by playing players in their actual positions and keeping 3 at least slightly up the field.  That line up for the first half was ridiculous imo.

 

Agree to disagree on the best method to achieve it. We both agree we want to see us do better through there for sure 👍👍

[frankblack]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

Folk wanting a Hearts manager punted for getting beat by  a goal in Glasgow. 

😂😂😂😂

 

Absolute melons 

 

The same halfwits wanted him punted for losing a bounce game to Sunderland too, tbf. 👍

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

failed to get seeded

 

out the league cup already

 

there’s 2 albeit not totally independent

 

don’t think that many will be too surprised

 

 

 

 

 

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Certain players got out under more pressure they could cope with and heads went up their arse. 

Not sure it was more pressure than they could cope with. The difference was first half we had no where to go with the ball. We didnt need to do that to ourselves. Thats down to tactics and players performing. 

[Gerd Muller]

8 defensive players 🤣 nice one Neilson. As all the forums, twitter posts and podcasts say, he's one defeat away from us wanting him out. Half the fan base probably want him out after that first half. Why do it? Its a cup tie, start an attacking team and the fans will be behind you of it goes wrong. At least we had a try. 

 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, loveofthegame said:

Celtic looked like Barcelona first half because our tactics allowed it. No other reason. 

 

100% agree.

 

 

 

As an aside, have we actually got someone defending that but didn't even watch the game 😂😂😂 

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I actually struggle to think how we could have given them more space than we already did first half. They were poor going forward today imo, the chances we gave them, if they were really good would have seen us 5 or 6 down by half time. We're lucky that they aren't really good going forward. I don't see it as a coincidence that we were much better second half and on the rack a lot less when we actually did play some kind of football and have an outball and get up the pitch.

 

Sure, we attack and lose 5-0 sometimes but now again we might win.

 

Play like we did first half today and we'll lose every single time.

 

I'm not saying go gung-ho but at least give ourselves a fighting chance of getting something by playing players in their actual positions and keeping 3 at least slightly up the field.  That line up for the first half was ridiculous imo.

 

Agree to disagree on the best method to achieve it. We both agree we want to see us do better through there for sure 👍👍

They arent nearly as bad going forward as you are inferring there. They are poor at the back. Starfelt is going to be targeted by any team who watch them

[160598]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Not sure it was more pressure than they could cope with. The difference was first half we had no where to go with the ball. We didnt need to do that to ourselves. Thats down to tactics and players performing. 

Boyce spending 22 mins 3 yds outside our box as an example

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

 

 

is that you when you lose at football manager 

 

 

[Gerd Muller]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Folk wanting a Hearts manager punted for getting beat by  a goal in Glasgow. 

😂😂😂😂

 

Absolute melons 

 

Bob was right, they do need to go and watch man citeh. 

 

 

Beat by a goal! Away you go. They had 35 shots! Probably didn't watch the first half. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

failed to get seeded

 

 

By winning all 4 group games while two that did get seeded got handed 3-0 wins by committee.

 

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

out the league cup already

 

To the former league champions and 2nd favourite for the competition and league.

 

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

there’s 2 albeit not totally independent

 

don’t think that many will be too surprised

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott Leitch]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

Had a go at ya 🤣 i do not believe for a second you havent been here before but fire on.

 

I dont think he is a coward , I think it was a mix of tactics and players not performing as required. We deserve better do we 6 wins out of 7 should be 7 🤷🏻‍♂️ What does that even Mean. 
 

Yes the first half was disgraceful but that was down to two things not just Robbie is bad as you are saying .

 

Aye football is simple , i assume youll be taking over from Robbie this week as its so simple

Well think what you like.

 

Wouldn't have mattered if Ginnelly and the big guy had been available from the start the tactics wouldn't have changed. First half was horrible. 

 

Let's leave it at that. Sorry to Frank for calling him a dafty that was wrong. Just disappointed by this and I'm no Neilson fan and want him gone.

[Taffin]

Just now, sadj said:

They arent nearly as bad going forward as you are inferring there. They are poor at the back. Starfelt is going to be targeted by any team who watch them

 

I'm not inferring anything. They're completely average, they had 80+% possession, 35 attempts and managed two goals against a team who'd completely bottled turning up and in the end won 3-2. A genuinely good team would have had that game well and truly put to bed by half time.

 

They're better than us, sure, but they're not the Harlem Globetrotters that some are making out. They were good because we let them be good, we didn't retreat because of their wonderful ability...we curled up in our box right from kick off.

[hearts00]

So I’d love to know the what really happened today. 
 

I actually thought Neilson would bottle the 3-4-3 today after seeing what Celtic did to Dundee and go 3-5-2 and try and swamp the midfield. Problem then of course is you can’t get out as it becomes a 5-4-1.  So surely if you want to do that you must play a target man like Gnando to get out. 
 

however, if it is indeed the case that Ginelly has not been well and could only play 45, and then of course Gnando wasn’t stripped as well which means Neilson’s options were more limited. 
 

So the question is what would he have done if everyone was fit? Also shows lack of depth in the squad which we know. 
 

9.5 times out of 10 we lose at Celtic Park irrespective of what we do. 
 

However, to concede 74% of possession to Celtic at Tynie and then 80% on the first half today, really is an embarrassment. There have been some great Celtic teams down through the years and they have never had possession stats like that. So there are questions to be answered. 
 

I am intrigued to see how the 3-4-3 develops through the season and if Neilson had the guts to play it properly. 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

is that you when you lose at football manager 

 

 

 

Is that the best you can come up with?

 

[HMFC 86]

13 minutes ago, Scott Leitch said:

 

 

I can assure you I have never been here before. I did call him a dafty but only after he had a go at me. Not allowed to give some back on here? 

 

Out of interest what part of what I said do you disagree with? Neilson is a coward and learnt nothing from sitting off Celtic in the first half of the cup final. He cost us then and he's cost us today. Now maybe that isn't a big deal to you but it's infuriating to me. We deserve better than what he is giving us. Anyone watching that first half can't in anyway defend Neilson. That was the worst performance I've ever witnessed by us in the first half at Parkhead. He changes it (same as the final) and low and behold we look dangerous. Football doesn't have to be this difficult my friend. 

Totally agree mate, but you’re wasting your time with some on here

[Scott Leitch]

1 minute ago, HMFC 86 said:

Totally agree mate, but you’re wasting your time with some on here

I'm realising that.