Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[Jeffros Furios]

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 games in, have we found any failings? Shouldn't we be in a relegation battle by now?

[Bongo 1874]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

6 games in, have we found any failings? Shouldn't we be in a relegation battle by now?

Early days mate. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Early days mate. 

 

Fingers crossed eh?

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Fingers crossed eh?

For? 

[WageThief]

7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

For? 

 

More of your informative "snippets"

[Chaps]

10 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Early days mate. 

Not willing give him any credit?

[Bongo 1874]

5 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

More of your informative "snippets"

6 minutes ago, Chaps said:

Not willing give him any credit?

 

Check the matchday thread 👍. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

15 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

For? 

 

I just worry about the mental health of all the folk who spent last season and this summer laying into Robbie Neilson. That's 6 wins on the trot now they've had to cope with in a season we're supposed to be in a relegation battle.

[Bongo 1874]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I just worry about the mental health of all the folk who spent last season and this summer laying into Robbie Neilson. That's 6 wins on the trot now they've had to cope with in a season we're supposed to be in a relegation battle.

Never once said we would be in a relegation battle, but not stupid enough to be going about with a hardon because we beat Celtic, in a game that was close, St Mirren today good in spells. 

 

But I'm humble enough that we could be put out the cup next week, by tomorrow both Aberdeen and Hibs could be above us, so I remain humble, like Robbie said 36 games to go. 

 

If we get put out the cup next week, would you class that as a failing, should Hearts be getting put out at the second round?

Edited August 7, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Jambof3tornado]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I just worry about the mental health of all the folk who spent last season and this summer laying into Robbie Neilson. That's 6 wins on the trot now they've had to cope with in a season we're supposed to be in a relegation battle.

Great 6 points.

 

Dont expect to get anywhere next weekend at parkhead.

 

Better than good start.

 

We can do better. We still need players in, what we have brought in looks decent, cochrane today was bossed by Main but we saw ding dong battles between berra and main so cochrane will learn from today. 

 

Think we really need the 1st round of games to judge properly. I wanted change...Robbie can do no more than he has so far(seeding in diddy cup apart).

 

Really really want a creative midfielder that can dictate games,do we have that already in mceneff? Or does devlin fit the bill...time will tell.

[WageThief]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

If we get put out the cup next week, would you class that as a failing, should Hearts be getting put out at the second round?

 

Should we be winning away to Celtic?

[Bongo 1874]

3 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

Should we be winning away to Celtic?

Well we won against them at home? 

 

And Robbie seems to think it's a great draw, are you doubting him? 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Well we won against them at home? 

 

And Robbie seems to think it's a great draw, are you doubting him? 

 

 

 

Have we ever beaten Celtic twice in the space of a couple of weeks or even twice in a row home and away?

[martoon]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Have we ever beaten Celtic twice in the space of a couple of weeks or even twice in a row home and away?

 

1991/92.

 

3-1 at Tynecastle then 1-2 at terrorist central.

 

1999/2000

 

2-3 away then 1-0 at home.

 

Off the top...

 

 

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Have we ever beaten Celtic twice in the space of a couple of weeks or even twice in a row home and away?

granted it is two months apart but in 09 beat them 1-0 at CP in league cup and then 2-1 at tynie

[martoon]

Just now, milky_26 said:

granted it is two months apart but in 09 beat them 1-0 at CP in league cup and then 2-1 at tynie

 

Spot on and well remembered.

[WageThief]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Well we won against them at home? 

 

And Robbie seems to think it's a great draw, are you doubting him? 

 

Indeed we did.  You should use your extensive network of contacts in the game to find out more about the concept of 'home advantage' in sport.

 

Yeah I'd doubt the truthfulness of loads of things he says to the media.

 

Imagine Neilson had said "shite draw, we've barely won there in 30 years, but at least if we do actually win the fans will be able to recall it off the top off their head like the Scott Crabbe game or Naysmith, or Velicka.  Pity we didn't get one of their reserve teams from Leith or Paisley.  But eh...the boys will be up for it, I'll certainly fill them with confidence"

 

 

[milky_26]

Just now, martoon said:

 

Spot on and well remembered.

weirdly when someone earlier in the week put up the v celtic giruy thread my first thought was bouzids goal and that is why i remember it

[martoon]

Just now, milky_26 said:

weirdly when someone earlier in the week put up the v celtic giruy thread my first thought was bouzids goal and that is why i remember it

 

Just before Christmas in the snow, iirc.

[Randy Marsh]

4 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

1991/92.

 

3-1 at Tynecastle then 1-2 at terrorist central.

 

1999/2000

 

2-3 away then 1-0 at home.

 

Off the top...

 

 

That 3-2 at Parkhead was one of the best days of my life.  2-0 down going on 7 and we won. Amazing day. The Celtic fans were in disbelief and I don't think I team has repeated that feat since (winning from 2 behind and Parkhead).  Remember the 1-0 also, I think Mcswegan scored the goal.  Very underrated striker IMO. L

[The Future's Maroon]

This thread, when started was an abomination…the fact it’s still on page one is worse.

 

Ok he isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but ffs…should be removed in my eyes.

 

(not a happy clapper before anyone starts)

[Boris]

29 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I just worry about the mental health of all the folk who spent last season and this summer laying into Robbie Neilson. That's 6 wins on the trot now they've had to cope with in a season we're supposed to be in a relegation battle.

Why? Don't you think they are pleasantly surprised by our league form, all be it only two games in? 

We can rake through the coals of last season, and, to some, the evidence based on that didn't bode well, however so far things seem to be better.

So yay you for your blind faith but for a support that endured Levein's stubbornness, have a smidgen of humility to understand other folks wariness.

Fingers crossed the good form continues.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

22 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

granted it is two months apart but in 09 beat them 1-0 at CP in league cup and then 2-1 at tynie

 

Seems like we also beat them twice in a row, but both at home, in 86/87 (once in the SC). Only found that out because one of my favourite Celtic wins was Neil Berry scoring with a header in a 1-0 win at Tynecastle and I thought it was the LC but it was the league in 86. Just looked it up.

 

Of course we got put out the LC by Montrose at home in the first round that season. Same old Hearts.

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Randy Marsh said:

That 3-2 at Parkhead was one of the best days of my life.  2-0 down going on 7 and we won. Amazing day. The Celtic fans were in disbelief and I don't think I team has repeated that feat since (winning from 2 behind and Parkhead).  Remember the 1-0 also, I think Mcswegan scored the goal.  Very underrated striker IMO. L

 

I think you're right regarding McSwegan. Liked him, too. He was a cut above on his day.

 

Scored hat-tricks, iirc. Mostly v. Aberdeen, I think.

 

Late equaliser at the emailers in '99 then a winner on the last day in 2000.

 

More than good enough for me, RM.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, Boris said:

Why? Don't you think they are pleasantly surprised by our league form, all be it only two games in? 

We can rake through the coals of last season, and, to some, the evidence based on that didn't bode well, however so far things seem to be better.

So yay you for your blind faith but for a support that endured Levein's stubbornness, have a smidgen of humility to understand other folks wariness.

Fingers crossed the good form continues.

 

No, you don't put that much energy into hating someone only to be pleasantly surprised when he proves you wrong. Anyhow, not convinced many of them are actual Hearts fans.

 

All the evidence was that Neilson would be capable of building a competitive team for the Premiership and starting the season well. You didn't need to be a happy clapper or have blind faith to see that.

 

So while there's "wariness" before every season, the stick Neilson gets was way over the top and undeserved. Basically all based on 2-3 results over many, many games in two spells as manager.

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Only won the first 6 games of the season. 

 

But only against diddy teams. 

 

Let's get a loser back in instead. 

[martoon]

1 minute ago, The Future's Maroon said:

This thread, when started was an abomination…the fact it’s still on page one is worse.

 

Ok he isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but ffs…should be removed in my eyes.

 

(not a happy clapper before anyone starts)

 

I'd be inclined to let it go on.

 

Just to see, hopefully, how far Neilson can turn the thread around.

 

I post as a convinced doubter of RN but would be feckin delighted if he proves me and others wrong.

 

So far, so good. 

[martoon]

8 minutes ago, Boris said:

Why? Don't you think they are pleasantly surprised by our league form, all be it only two games in? 

We can rake through the coals of last season, and, to some, the evidence based on that didn't bode well, however so far things seem to be better.

So yay you for your blind faith but for a support that endured Levein's stubbornness, have a smidgen of humility to understand other folks wariness.

Fingers crossed the good form continues.

 

Good post, Boris.

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

No, you don't put that much energy into hating someone only to be pleasantly surprised when he proves you wrong. Anyhow, not convinced many of them are actual Hearts fans.

So "all the folk" aren't Hearts?

 

Well I'm one of those "folk" who would've been happy if RN had been bulleted (certainly post Brora), and wasn't convinced for this season, yet I'm at this point in time "pleasantly surprised".

 

Long may it continue, but don't mistake (valid) concern or criticism for being anti-Hearts.

[Homme]

16 pages an no failings as of yet

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, Boris said:

Why? Don't you think they are pleasantly surprised by our league form, all be it only two games in? 

We can rake through the coals of last season, and, to some, the evidence based on that didn't bode well, however so far things seem to be better.

So yay you for your blind faith but for a support that endured Levein's stubbornness, have a smidgen of humility to understand other folks wariness.

Fingers crossed the good form continues.

Think thats a fair post. 
 

There is a difference between blind faith and looking at the big picture last season though. Fans prerogative though. I think iv been more critical of last week and today than i was at all last season as it was going through the motions and covid was weird for players. This season the team spirit is visible. All the shit during the week about Gnando and he was bang on today (their goal apart possibly) Neilsen needs to bw more ruthless though but his professionalism is noticeable in the team and most weeks that should do more good than harm.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

I'd be inclined to let it go on.

 

Just to see, hopefully, how far Neilson can turn the thread around.

 

I post as a convinced doubter of RN but would be feckin delighted if he proves me and others wrong.

 

So far, so good. 

 

Out of interest, as someone who seems open minded, what was it about his previous spells with us in the Premiership that made you unconvinced? For me that's 4 seasons as a Hearts manager now when he's built a new team in the summer and has got them playing well together very quickly, starting the season well each time. 

 

What's even better this season is he's done it with a lot of the players who didn't exactly set the heather alight last season. For me, these are all signs of someone who is a good manager. Getting players to play for you is half the battle and he seems to have that about him, unlike a few managers we've had in the past.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

So "all the folk" aren't Hearts?

 

Well I'm one of those "folk" who would've been happy if RN had been bulleted (certainly post Brora), and wasn't convinced for this season, yet I'm at this point in time "pleasantly surprised".

 

Long may it continue, but don't mistake (valid) concern or criticism for being anti-Hearts.

 

It becomes anti-Hearts when it's day in day out IMO. Not saying that's you but it's certainly some.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Think thats a fair post. 
 

There is a difference between blind faith and looking at the big picture last season though. Fans prerogative though. I think iv been more critical of last week and today than i was at all last season as it was going through the motions and covid was weird for players. This season the team spirit is visible. All the shit during the week about Gnando and he was bang on today (their goal apart possibly) Neilsen needs to bw more ruthless though but his professionalism is noticeable in the team and most weeks that should do more good than harm.

 

 

Isn't this a mistake some people have made though? Last season was a non-season really for many reasons. It baffles me that people would judge any player or manager on last season - to the extent that some are judging Neilson and some of the players. Surely the real big picture is accepting the weird circumstances of last season, not just COVID but I've never seen hearts face so many teams intent on packing defence against us from minute one.

 

It was never blind faith to see that teams will play differently against us in this league and that we are likely to play better as a result.

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Boris]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Isn't this a mistake many people have made though? Last season was a non-season really for many reasons. It baffles me that people would judge any player or manager on last season - to the extent that some are judging Neilson and some of the players.

Brora?

[Randy Marsh]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

I'd be inclined to let it go on.

 

Just to see, hopefully, how far Neilson can turn the thread around.

 

I post as a convinced doubter of RN but would be feckin delighted if he proves me and others wrong.

 

So far, so good. 

Exactly this Martoon. He deserved to be sacked for that result at Brora and I still have my doubts about him.  But if he keeps this form up then he can maybe he can be forgiven for that match and Birkirkana.  I do like the guy.  A 3rd placed finish this season and a semi final would certainly help. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

Brora?

 

If you're someone who wants a manager out based on one or two bad results fine. Not everyone takes that short term view though. And by the way should we get rid of all the players from that day as well?

 

I just posted further up the thread how we beat Celtic twice in a row in 86/87 but we also gut pumped 2-0 by Montrose in the first round of the LC at Tynecastle. We then finished 5th that season. Next season, under the same manager who got pumped by Montrose and finished 5th, we finished 2nd. The season after we beat Bayern Munich and were a whisker away from a European SF against Maradona and Napoli. My view is decent managers need time to build teams and a bad (or exceptionally bad) result here and there will happen to every manager we have.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It becomes anti-Hearts when it's day in day out IMO. Not saying that's you but it's certainly some.

Equally the other side of the coin is day in day out, so what can you expect?

Granted it seems to be the same folk on either side in the never ending spiral of tit for tat.

[The Future's Maroon]

20 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

I'd be inclined to let it go on.

 

Just to see, hopefully, how far Neilson can turn the thread around.

 

I post as a convinced doubter of RN but would be feckin delighted if he proves me and others wrong.

 

So far, so good. 

Fair comment/reply and agreed.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

Equally the other side of the coin is day in day out, so what can you expect?

Granted it seems to be the same folk on either side in the never ending spiral of tit for tat.

 

Brora happened but we've turned our form around. I thought we would under Neilson, others didn't, fair enough. Accept they were wrong and move on. Yet folk keep bringing up Brora. It's weird. Most fans want to forget bad results.

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Isn't this a mistake some people have made though? Last season was a non-season really for many reasons. It baffles me that people would judge any player or manager on last season - to the extent that some are judging Neilson and some of the players. Surely the real big picture is accepting the weird circumstances of last season, not just COVID but I've never seen hearts face so many teams intent on packing defence against us from minute one.

 

It was never blind faith to see that teams will play differently against us in this league and that we are likely to play better as a result.

Brora was not in any way acceptable but aside from that we went through the motions. Possibly part of it was complacency which is a disgrace at any professional level. However i meant big picture in terms of clearing deadwood , getting through the season and wbsuring promotion , covid being bery disruptive to training and team bonding etc. It doesnt excuse Brora , from there the frustration boils over for some. SRB has gone on about Robbie knowing whats needed in the top flight. Hopefully that continues and we build on where we are. The thing with football fans is they have passion and people are all different so some will be on him before a balls kicked , some will never accept him after Brora and some will look at it and say ok. Last seasons gone lets move forward. 
Alex Macdonald - Montrose springs to mind. Can you imagine this place after that game

[Boris]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

If you're someone who wants a manager out based on one or two bad results fine. Not everyone takes that short term view though. And by the way should we get rid of all the layers from that day as well?

 

I just posted further up the thread how we beat Celtic twice in a row in 86/87 but we also gut pumped 2-0 by Montrose in the first round of the LC at Tynecastle. We then finished 5th that season. Next season, under the same manager who got pumped by Montrose, we finished 2nd. The season after we beat Bayern Munich and were a whisker away from a European SF against Maradona and Napoli. My view is decent managers need time to build teams and a bad (or exceptionally bad) result here and there will happen to every manager we have.

 

 

Ok, the Montrose game didn't come in the middle of a poor run of form. Our first defeat at home in a crazy amount of games, iirc. And, off of the back of the previous season Alex McDonald had nigh on godlike status. So let's treat like with like.

I take your point about time, and bad results, but had Robbins not scored in that FA Cup game, where was Fergie?

And to say had we beaten Bayern then we would have gotten Napoli is simplistic, to say the least. Parallel universes and all that.

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Brora was not in any way acceptable but aside from that we went through the motions. Possibly part of it was complacency which is a disgrace at any professional level. However i meant big picture in terms of clearing deadwood , getting through the season and wbsuring promotion , covid being bery disruptive to training and team bonding etc. It doesnt excuse Brora , from there the frustration boils over for some. SRB has gone on about Robbie knowing whats needed in the top flight. Hopefully that continues and we build on where we are. The thing with football fans is they have passion and people are all different so some will be on him before a balls kicked , some will never accept him after Brora and some will look at it and say ok. Last seasons gone lets move forward. 
Alex Macdonald - Montrose springs to mind. Can you imagine this place after that game

 

I brought up Montrose earlier. Granted Doddie had some good will in the bank, but then so should Robbie have had IMO. Maybe it's just older fans having lived through more of these defeats or something that we've learned they are just something that happens in football. The bigger picture is where we finish in the league, and to a lesser extent how we do in the cups. 

 

Personally, I think Neilson deserves huge credit for taking on the challenge considering the events of last year and the circumstances and the size of the rebuilding job he had shouldn't be under-estimated. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[martoon]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Out of interest, as someone who seems open minded, what was it about his previous spells with us in the Premiership that made you unconvinced? For me that's 4 seasons as a Hearts manager now when he's built a new team in the summer and has got them playing well together very quickly, starting the season well each time. 

 

What's even better this season is he's done it with a lot of the players who didn't exactly set the heather alight last season. For me, these are all signs of someone who is a good manager. Getting players to play for you is half the battle and he seems to have that about him, unlike a few managers we've had in the past.

 

I wasn't unconvinced about his first stint, TJ. 

 

The Hibs and Birkirkara defeats were hurtful but I was as perplexed as most on aeroplane day.

 

Didn't have a massive problem with his return either but at the same time I was a wee bit underwhelmed.

 

It was the all too frequent abysmal performances and the Alloa/Brora results last season that brassed me off.

 

I still believe that we could afford a higher quality head coach but, as stated, I'm up for being proved wrong.

 

Frequently said so whilst posting those doubts.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Brora happened but we've turned our form around. I thought we would under Neilson, others didn't, fair enough. Accept they were wrong and move on. Yet folk keep bringing up Brora. It's weird. Most fans want to forget bad results.

We have, thankfully. Onwards and upwards!

Brora, unfortunately, will not be forgotten, and neither it should be. Any and every Hearts player should be aware that any repeat of that is unacceptable. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

Ok, the Montrose game didn't come in the middle of a poor run of form. Our first defeat at home in a crazy amount of games, iirc. And, off of the back of the previous season Alex McDonald had nigh on godlike status. So let's treat like with like.

I take your point about time, and bad results, but had Robbins not scored in that FA Cup game, where was Fergie?

And to say had we beaten Bayern then we would have gotten Napoli is simplistic, to say the least. Parallel universes and all that.

 

 

Should the Bayern manager have been sacked after losing to a manager whose team got humped by Montrose? That's a pretty bad result. The beauty of football is that these against the odds results happen all the time to all teams. Sometimes you're on the wrong end of them and sometimes they go for you. Continuing to bring it up and still call for the manager's head months after it happened though.....

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

We have, thankfully. Onwards and upwards!

Brora, unfortunately, will not be forgotten, and neither it should be. Any and every Hearts player should be aware that any repeat of that is unacceptable. 

 

Of course it bloody well should be. Consign it to the bin for **** sake along wit Hibs 6-2 and countless cup and league defeats. Or should we build it into the club song or something so it's passed down to generations of fans?

Edited August 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[martoon]

13 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Exactly this Martoon. He deserved to be sacked for that result at Brora and I still have my doubts about him.  But if he keeps this form up then he can maybe he can be forgiven for that match and Birkirkana.  I do like the guy.  A 3rd placed finish this season and a semi final would certainly help. 

 

That, and this much improved approach to games, would do for me, bud.

 

Don't expect miracles, just an HMFC team doing what they always should: aim to win and, if not, fair enough.

[Boris]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Should the Bayern manager have been sacked after losing to a manager whose team got humped by Montrose? That's a pretty bad result. The beauty of football is that these against the odds results happen all the time to all teams. Sometimes you're on the wrong end of them and sometimes they go for you. Continuing to bring it up and still call for the manager's head months after it happened though.....

Well obviously not as the Munich tie was at half time, and I'm not aware of Bayern's current form at the time.

Explain to me who is actually calling for the managers head right now?