Neilson's failings during season 2021/2

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Lazy question, Vlad.

 

It's the remit of whoever is hiring and firing to research who is available and would improve Hearts' fortunes.

 

Not the support.

 

Many don't believe that is happening when "down the corridor", and down the corridor's mini me, is the furthest she'll look.

 

Aye, she appointed Stendel, but down the corridor was still hanging about and even showed the new man around.

 

Is Neilson really the best head coach Hearts can have, in your opinion?

 

 

 

 

 

The best coach we can ever have is the one who has us at the right end of the table most of the time, beats Hibs more often than not, and occasionally delivers a good day out or two at a cup semi or final. Neilson has done all of the above every season he's managed us. Although the semi and final day outs were "day ins".

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Alloa result is no where near as bad as folk make out. 

They were a team in the same division as us. 

Getting beat from a team in the same division is not in the same stratosphere of results as the cove disaster. 

 

The Cove result on it's own is a shocker tho. 

 

 

You don’t even know who beat us !

Are you really trying to blank it out that much, Tosh ?

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The best coach we can ever have is the one who has us at the right end of the table most of the time, beats Hibs more often than not, and occasionally delivers a good day out or two at a cup semi or final. Neilson has done all of the above every season he's managed us. 

All except the bits in bold. I'll give you the league part. He's beaten Hibs once in 90 minutes I think and his knockout record is awful. None of us have ever seen Hearts in a semi or a final at Hampden under Neilson.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

I assume you mean non league Brora?

 

Does the fact that we hammered many not non-league teams that season and this seasons so far not suggest to you that the Brora result is an outlier?

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Lazy question, Vlad.

 

It's the remit of whoever is hiring and firing to research who is available and would improve Hearts' fortunes.

 

Not the support.

 

Many don't believe that is happening when "down the corridor", and down the corridor's mini me, is the furthest she'll look.

 

Aye, she appointed Stendel, but down the corridor was still hanging about and even showed the new man around.

 

Is Neilson really the best head coach Hearts can have, in your opinion?

 

 

 

 

It’s the apologists’ rule.  You’re not allowed to want a new manager unless you can list 50 candidates who are all currently available and within our budget and then confirm what their style of football is and whether they prefer to work with a DOF or not.
 

It’s not AB’s or the board’s remit to research this it’s down to JKB, of course, and we’re expected to know everything about every manager in world football or you dare not criticise.  Just accept that it isn’t possible for us to get a better, affordable manager than RN.  It’s not possible that a rookie manager can go to a club like St Johnstone and win 2 cups in his first season.  

[martoon]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The best coach we can ever have is the one who has us at the right end of the table most of the time, beats Hibs more often than not, and occasionally delivers a good day out or two at a cup semi or final. Neilson has done all of the above every season he's managed us. Although the semi and final day outs were "day ins".

 

With all due respect, TJ, a lot of that post isn't true.

 

Neilson has never taken Hearts to a semi final. His Cup record is appalling. 

 

You must have noticed.

 

Neither has he won derbies more often than not.

 

2 in 7. 

 

Hardly, bud.

[Fozzyonthefence]

8 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The best coach we can ever have is the one who has us at the right end of the table most of the time, beats Hibs more often than not, and occasionally delivers a good day out or two at a cup semi or final. Neilson has done all of the above every season he's managed us. Although the semi and final day outs were "day ins".

Neilson has never got us to a cup semi final and his derby record is poor too. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Fozzyonthefence

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Shaggy2 said:

All except the bits in bold. I'll give you the league part. He's beaten Hibs once in 90 minutes I think and his knockout record is awful. None of us have ever seen Hearts in a semi or a final at Hampden under Neilson.

 

What are you on about - we literally saw Hearts beat Hibs and nearly beat Celtic at Hampden last season. He's won 2 lost 2 against Hibs but I would personally give him a bonus point or two for condemning them to another 2 years in the championship. I'm not a complete loon with an axe to grind against the guy though.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

With all due respect, TJ, a lot of that post isn't true.

 

Neilson has never taken Hearts to a semi final. His Cup record is appalling. 

 

You must have noticed.

 

Neither has he won derbies more often than not.

 

2 in 7. 

 

Hardly, bud.

 

He gave us a great day at a semi final. I enjoyed us beating Hibs in a semi final anyhow, especially as we went into it massive underdogs.

 

Won 2 lost 2 derbies, bonus points for condemning Hibs to 2 more years down there. As explained above.

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

He gave us a great day at a semi final. I enjoyed us beating Hibs in a semi final under him as well, especially as we went into it massive underdogs.

 

Won 2 lost 2, bonus points for condemning Hibs to 2 more years down there. As explained above.

Which we got to thanks to Stendel’s 2nd win in succession against Rangers.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Neilson has never got us to a cup semi final and his derby record is poor too. 

 

what part of "delivers a good day out at a semi final or final" didn't you get? Did we beat Hibs in a semi final or not? I can see how some on here didn't enjoy the semi final last season mind you.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Which we got to thanks to Stendel’s 2nd win in succession against Rangers.

 

I seem to remember Neilson also beating Rangers in rather important games. Yes, Stendel. Where did he leave us again?

 

Folk loving the defeat yesterday. Just loving it. Weird. We've started the season well against all expectations, especially from you doom and gloomers. ****ing deal with it.

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[stevie1874]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Does the fact that we hammered many not non-league teams that season and this seasons so far not suggest to you that the Brora result is an outlier?

Sorry but I don’t think their is much point discussing this with you as you’ve already made it clear Robbie Neilson can do no wrong in your eyes.  I’ve nothing against him I just think we have most things right at the club, but don’t think he’s the person to take us forward on the pitch. 👍

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, stevie1874 said:

Sorry but I don’t think their is much point discussing this with you as you’ve already made it clear Robbie Neilson can do no wrong in your eyes.  I’ve nothing against him I just think we have most things right at the club, but don’t think he’s the person to take us forward on the pitch. 👍

 

His cup record is shite though. Brora was a disgrace. Said so many times. 

[Shaggy2]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

What are you on about - we literally saw Hearts beat Hibs and nearly beat Celtic at Hampden last season. He's won 2 lost 2 against Hibs but I would personally give him a bonus point or two for condemning them to another 2 years in the championship. I'm not a complete loon with an axe to grind against the guy though.

He never reached that semi, though, did he?

 

"Beats Hibs more often than not." Eh, naw, it's 2 v 2 (one of which was in extra time and bookies paid out on the draw).

 

"A good day out or two at a cup semi or a final," you said. I'm glad you got a day out cos nobody else did.
 

"Neilson has done all of the above every season he's managed us." Eh, total crap. 

 

I don't like him, but I'll not make up nonsense about him, good or bad.

[martoon]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

He gave us a great day at a semi final. I enjoyed us beating Hibs in a semi final under him as well, especially as we went into it massive underdogs.

 

Won 2 lost 2, bonus points for condemning Hibs to 2 more years down there. As explained above.

 

No argument about that semi final, TJ.

 

An excellent victory, albeit tinged with shock and sadness.

 

No interest in going around in the same circles we have in the past. 

 

We don't agree about Neilson and that's fine.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

18 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

I assume you mean non league Brora?

 

 

Every time 😂😂

Brora Ofc. 

 

[martoon]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Every time 😂😂

Brora Ofc. 

 

 

 

You'll get it right one day, Tosh.

 

Don't give up.

[Beni]

17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

The best coach we can ever have is the one who has us at the right end of the table most of the time, beats Hibs more often than not

 

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

He's won 2 lost 2 against Hibs

 

As you've already acknowledged Neilson doesn't beat Hibs more often than not, ergo you don't think he's the best coach we can have. Good to see the scales falling from yet another supporter's eyes. 👍

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

what part of "delivers a good day out at a semi final or final" didn't you get? Did we beat Hibs in a semi final or not? I can see how some on here didn't enjoy the semi final last season mind you.

Stendel delivered the “day out” at the semi, not Neilson, except none of us were there to have a day out. Stendel delivered the semi, Neilson delivered the final.  It’s not that hard to understand is it?
 

I enjoyed watching it on tv but neither the semi or final felt like a semi or a final and that semi should never have been played. It was only to give Celtic their quadruple treble. 

[martoon]

16 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It’s the apologists’ rule.  You’re not allowed to want a new manager unless you can list 50 candidates who are all currently available and within our budget and then confirm what their style of football is and whether they prefer to work with a DOF or not.
 

It’s not AB’s or the board’s remit to research this it’s down to JKB, of course, and we’re expected to know everything about every manager in world football or you dare not criticise.  Just accept that it isn’t possible for us to get a better, affordable manager than RN.  It’s not possible that a rookie manager can go to a club like St Johnstone and win 2 cups in his first season.  

 

Davidson is a head coach I could get on board with, fozzy.

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Every time 😂😂

Brora Ofc. 

 

 
What does the O stand for?  

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

Stendel delivered the “day out” at the semi, not Neilson, except none of us were there to have a day out. Stendel delivered the semi, Neilson delivered the final.  It’s not that hard to understand is it?
 

I enjoyed watching it on tv but neither the semi or final felt like a semi or a final and that semi should never have been played. It was only to give Celtic their quadruple treble. 

 

 

No he didn't. Neilson delivered the semi final win and hence the good day out. Or is a good day out to you losing a semi final to Hibs? ****ing hell - the lengths folk go to to not give Neilson any credit at all. Using your logic, many thought last season's SC - the actual one for that season - shouldn't have gone ahead either. So can we therefore absolve him of blame for Brora? Mental.

[Ked]

26 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Alloa result is no where near as bad as folk make out. 

They were a team in the same division as us. 

Getting beat from a team in the same division is not in the same stratosphere of results as the cove disaster. 

 

The Cove result on it's own is a shocker tho. 

 

 

Some of that Alloa team did a shift before and after the game.

They were also managed by peter grant how bad is bad for you ?

What standards should Hearts have.

Both result were within months of each other.

You cannot truly have the best interests of Hearts accepting that.

[Diego10]

38 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

The Robbie Out folk have to be the most tedious, unimaginative so-called football fans on the planet. They can't wait for every defeat, simply can't wait.

 

That's over two and a half years now (over two periods in the job) that they've been banging on and on and on about, statistically speaking, one of the most consistent Hearts managers in recent times.

 

Does he have his faults, yeah. But so do Tommy Wright, Stephen Robinson, Alex Neil, Derek McInnes and Calum Davidson and whoever else they latch on to when another manager has a decent season. So did JJ, Doddy, Sergio and more successful managers than Neilson and all of the above. They all had shocking results, embarrassing LC exits, etc. Few of them were as consistent in the league as Neilson has been.

 

Let's go all out attack against Celtic when we only have one fit striker and one fit winger... 😄 Yeah, because that's worked for teams there.... when exactly? No-one seems to be able to provide an example of a weakened team or even a full strength team attacking Celtic at CP for 90 mins and coming away with a win.

An absolute strawman of an argument.

 

No-one has suggested all-out attack, even the most vehemently anti-Robbie posters.

 

My kids could spot that making zero effort to cross the halfway line was suicidal though

[Spellczech]

28 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Alloa result is no where near as bad as folk make out. 

They were a team in the same division as us. 

Getting beat from a team in the same division is not in the same stratosphere of results as the cove disaster. 

 

The Cove result on it's own is a shocker tho. 

 

 

Bit of an hard sell that one...RN is one of only 2 Hearts managers who has ever lost to Alloa: (Thx London Hearts)

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

Davidson is a head coach I could get on board with, fozzy.

 

 

 

He does look promising. Had he got Celtic in the early rounds of the cup in his first season like Neilson did things could have been different.

 

Thoughts on needing pens to beat Arbroath though? Neilson would be hung, drawn and quartered for that.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Diego10 said:

An absolute strawman of an argument.

 

No-one has suggested all-out attack, even the most vehemently anti-Robbie posters.

 

My kids could spot that making zero effort to cross the halfway line was suicidal though

 

 

Actually that was the clarion call from many of the usual suspects. "Into them" "get at them" and "All out attack" The first half was dire and not the plan, which makes some of the criticism weird. Have a go for failing to play well but why pretend that was the way we were set up to play?

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Bit of an hard sell that one...RN is one of only 2 Hearts managers who has ever lost to Alloa: (Thx London Hearts)

 

 

 

Yeah, but take a look at Hibs and Rangers in the championship recently. They had very similar if not worse defeats in the league and cups. Not excusing, just adding perspective.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

 

Sorry for the abuse but seriously some, maybe you, deserve it. How did Sergio do at CP by the way, and Tynecastle for that matter? 4-0 and 5-0 scudding wasn't it? The cup semi was backs to the wall at times.

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Diego10]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Actually that was the carton call from many of the usual suspects. "Into them" "get at them" and "All out attack"

The first two are nothing like the third.  And if anyone suggested the latter it's passed me by.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, martoon said:

 

Davidson is a head coach I could get on board with, fozzy.

 

 

The point being it was a kind of left field appointment in the sense that he wasn’t already a manager / head coach.   I’m sure the Saints fans would all have been discussing which established manager  they would get next and he probably wasn’t on the radar.  Often it is a brand new manager getting a job at whatever club (all managers have to get their first job somewhere after all) but listen the apologists in here and you have to come up with a list of proven managers.  We don’t know the hundreds of potential upcoming managers trying to make their name, maybe just taken their coaching badges, doing a good job as assistant, etc. 

[Shaggy2]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Bit of an hard sell that one...RN is one of only 2 Hearts managers who has ever lost to Alloa: (Thx London Hearts)

 

The only one to lose a competitive game, though. Alloa TV said prior to that game the only teams they'd never beat were Hearts and Celtic. However, aye, it wasn't that bad a result! 

 

Mind you, Alex MacDonald's record is a bit shit, and he's got Forfar on his CV as well. Now I'm looking forward with optimism and foresee us eclipsing the 27 match unbeaten run we got as reward for sticking by Doddie. 

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He does look promising. Had he got Celtic in the early rounds of the cup in his first season like Neilson did things could have been different.

 

Thoughts on needing pens to beat Arbroath though? Neilson would be hung, drawn and quartered for that.

 

He would be slated by many, tbf.

 

Possibly even by me. 😉

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

**** right off you tedious prick.

Ooooh mods?!  Personal abuse is against forum rules.  

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Shaggy2 said:

The only one to lose a competitive game, though. Alloa TV said prior to that game the only teams they'd never beat were Hearts and Celtic. However, aye, it wasn't that bad a result! 

 

Mind you, Alex MacDonald's record is a bit shit, and he's got Forfar on his CV as well. Now I'm looking forward with optimism and foresee us eclipsing the 27 match unbeaten run we got as reward for sticking by Doddie. 

 

Got to lose 6-2 to St Mirren before that can happen.

[Beni]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Boring troll

 

Not trolling bud, but if someone pointing out that you've contradicted yourself within a few post makes you lose your rag, then it's maybe time to look closer to home before lashing out. 👍

[jr ewing]

43 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Neilson, 10 years at Hearts. 

Capped at international level. 

Done the best with his limited natural ability that anyone could expect. 

Sc winner with us 

 

Aye, he clearly has no motivation, confidence or determination. 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

Hes lived the dream and still is, but aye he lacks the qualities you say. 

 

Say that to his face, maybe give him lessons on how to be a success in life. 

👍👍

Limited as you point out. I agree with you. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

Ooooh mods?!  Personal abuse is against forum rules.  

 

Truth hurts

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Beni said:

 

Not trolling bud, but if someone pointing out that you've contradicted yourself within a few post makes you lose your rag, then it's maybe time to look closer to home before lashing out. 👍

 

**** off.

[Shaggy2]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Got to lose 6-2 to St Mirren before that can happen.

😂 Touche!

[Beni]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

**** off.

 

Q.E.D.

[Fozzyonthefence]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

No he didn't. Neilson delivered the semi final win and hence the good day out. Or is a good day out to you losing a semi final to Hibs? ****ing hell - the lengths folk go to to not give Neilson any credit at all. Using your logic, many thought last season's SC - the actual one for that season - shouldn't have gone ahead either. So can we therefore absolve him of blame for Brora? Mental.

He delivered the semi final win, yes, but not the semi final itself.  Credit to Robbie for winning that and I’m sure you’ll agree - credit to Stendel for getting us there. 
 

wtf are you on about in your last sentence though ?!  The reason many thought that the previous season’s semi and final shouldn’t have been played wss because the previous season had been cut short and ended in March.  We were into a new season and paying the semi 6 months after the season had finished.  It was ludicrous and I doubt it would have happened had Celtic not been in the other semi.  What logic for Saints v Hibs final not being played?  It was played when it should have been. 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Bit of an hard sell that one...RN is one of only 2 Hearts managers who has ever lost to Alloa: (Thx London Hearts)

 

 

That means nothing to the game last season. 

 

Both teams were in the same division, they knocked us out. 

 

I've seen us beat from Lower division teams too many times, each worse imo than getting beat of a team from the same division. 

 

Still shite tho, but not in the same ball park as the likes of the sc game last season or even Peterhead in the lc under cathro, Who where 2 divisions below us. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

21 minutes ago, Ked said:

Some of that Alloa team did a shift before and after the game.

They were also managed by peter grant how bad is bad for you ?

What standards should Hearts have.

Both result were within months of each other.

You cannot truly have the best interests of Hearts accepting that.

 

 

You're last line.. What does that even mean? 

It happened, not accepting it isn't an option. 

I can't deny it. 

As per, what are you on about? 

[Spellczech]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

That means nothing to the game last season. 

 

Both teams were in the same division, they knocked us out. 

 

I've seen us beat from Lower division teams too many times, each worse imo than getting beat of a team from the same division. 

 

Still shite tho, but not in the same ball park as the likes of the sc game last season or even Peterhead in the lc under cathro, Who where 2 divisions below us. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes we were placed in the same league but our budget was not in the same league, our professional status was not in the same league...Come on, you're clutching at straws trying to sell that one. It was a shocking result. Only saving grace was that we trumped it at Brora, where we didn't just lose to semi-pros and amateurs but actually contrived to lose to a amateur part-time non-league outfit...

[Fozzyonthefence]

39 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I seem to remember Neilson also beating Rangers in rather important games. Yes, Stendel. Where did he leave us again?

 

Folk loving the defeat yesterday. Just loving it. Weird. We've started the season well against all expectations, especially from you doom and gloomers. ****ing deal with it.

He left us in a semi final in his few months here, something Neilson has failed to do in how many years is it now?  Otherwise he was a failure though, possibly right manager, definitely wrong time.  
 

Not sure who you think is loving the defeat, I don’t think anyone is other than one or two interlopers. Thankfully,  I didn’t have to suffer it, only caught the last 10 minutes which we won 1-0, assumed we’d played quite well as scoring 2 goals there is rare for us, only to be told we were brutal!

[Hectormasson]

32 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

😂 Touche!

After leading in the game too ?🙈

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

He left us in a semi final in his few months here, something Neilson has failed to do in how many years is it now?  Otherwise he was a failure though, possibly right manager, definitely wrong time.  
 

Not sure who you think is loving the defeat, I don’t think anyone is other than one or two interlopers. Thankfully,  I didn’t have to suffer it, only caught the last 10 minutes which we won 1-0, assumed we’d played quite well as scoring 2 goals there is rare for us, only to be told we were brutal!

Yipee, he left us in a semi final. He also left us in last place. A fecking donkey.

[Boris]

8 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

We lost a game we were expected to lose to superior players.  I don't see your point.

No, I guess you don't.