Pyramid Leagues Superthread

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

How often do LL players train?

 

I would think that a club paying £50 per week was in danger of failing to pay the minimum wage, unless they were 20 or under.

I think that most are twice a week plus matchday on a Saturday.

[Rockwell]

3 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

How often do LL players train?

 

I would think that a club paying £50 per week was in danger of failing to pay the minimum wage, unless they were 20 or under.

They will train the same as every part time team in the championship league 1and 2 .probably two nights a week

[Saint Jambo]

16 minutes ago, Rockwell said:

They will train the same as every part time team in the championship league 1and 2 .probably two nights a week

In which case any player on a professional contract is likely to need to be on close to £100/week just to meet minimum wage requirements.

[Ford Prentice]

Fixtures announced https://slfl.co.uk/fixtures-results-lowland-league/

 

Start with Berwick at home (Ferguson Park) on July 23rd.

[Niemi’s gloves]

3 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Fixtures announced https://slfl.co.uk/fixtures-results-lowland-league/

 

Start with Berwick at home (Ferguson Park) on July 23rd.

Spartans (A) on the following Tuesday, July 26 should get a decent crowd

[Ford Prentice]

Just now, Niemi’s gloves said:

Spartans (A) on the following Tuesday, July 26 should get a decent crowd

I'll be there anyway.

[jambo-rocker]

Do they do season tickets for Hearts B? 👀

[Rick Sanchez]

Christ, better get that squad built. Naismith been confirmed as in charge yet, na?

[Locky]

Looking forward to Berwick away. I'd have much preferred that though as the opening fixture. Nice wee summers day out. Instead its January 14th.

[John Findlay]

Me and the laddie can make the Spartans away, excellent.

[Footballfirst]

Well that's the LL going to be shafted again by the SPFL (in particular by League 2).

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/spfl-reconstruction-faces-league-two-24338553

 

Any attempt to force through league reconstruction for season 2023/24 will be snubbed by League Two clubs who aren’t willing to see the game changed.

The SFA promised to lead a review of the pyramid as part of the deal that allowed three Premiership B teams to enter the Lowland League for a second season. Celtic, Hearts and Rangers will all take part in the fifth tier next season. But the Scottish Sun claim all 10 League Two clubs have made it clear they won’t take part in any restructuring talks ahead of the new campaign. They will snub any bid to change the league structure, with one of the ideas being floated that they could introduce a fifth SPFL tier.

 

It means any plan is likely to be rejected because it would need 75 per cent of League One and Two clubs combined but with all the bottom tier sides against it, the reconstruction plans now look doomed. League Two clubs were left fizzing by the statement that confirmed the three clubs being entered into the Lowland League because it promised reconstruction talks.

 

But they have been completely against it from the outset and don’t want any part in it.

Clubs in the Lowland League voted to allow the Colt teams into the league for season 2022/23, although it was a close one with the league chairman having to split the vote.

Part of the agreement saw a proposal for a fifth tier made up of B teams, clubs promoted from the Highland and Lowland League as well as relegated League Two sides had been suggested but that now faces a snub.

[Mikey1874]

Snub it if you want. But go to Lowland League you stay in Lowland League. 

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Snub it if you want. But go to Lowland League you stay in Lowland League. 

 

Exactly, its short term interests from League Two. But they must realise that most of the worst teams in SPFL are now disappearing into the HL/LL, and the ones coming up are usually higher then League Two level. So it means these bottom tier clubs are inveitably going to go down. Surely better to face facts and restructure it so its easier to get back up.

[RobboM]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Well that's the LL going to be shafted again by the SPFL (in particular by League 2).

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/spfl-reconstruction-faces-league-two-24338553

 

Any attempt to force through league reconstruction for season 2023/24 will be snubbed by League Two clubs who aren’t willing to see the game changed.

The SFA promised to lead a review of the pyramid as part of the deal that allowed three Premiership B teams to enter the Lowland League for a second season. Celtic, Hearts and Rangers will all take part in the fifth tier next season. But the Scottish Sun claim all 10 League Two clubs have made it clear they won’t take part in any restructuring talks ahead of the new campaign. They will snub any bid to change the league structure, with one of the ideas being floated that they could introduce a fifth SPFL tier.

 

It means any plan is likely to be rejected because it would need 75 per cent of League One and Two clubs combined but with all the bottom tier sides against it, the reconstruction plans now look doomed. League Two clubs were left fizzing by the statement that confirmed the three clubs being entered into the Lowland League because it promised reconstruction talks.

 

But they have been completely against it from the outset and don’t want any part in it.

Clubs in the Lowland League voted to allow the Colt teams into the league for season 2022/23, although it was a close one with the league chairman having to split the vote.

Part of the agreement saw a proposal for a fifth tier made up of B teams, clubs promoted from the Highland and Lowland League as well as relegated League Two sides had been suggested but that now faces a snub.

So the pretext for allowing B teams into LL didn't even survive to the start of the season! Shocked, so I am, shocked 😂

[Footballfirst]

What was said on 7 June, just three weeks ago:

 

Ian Maxwell, Chief Executive Scottish FA: “We are delighted that the Lowland League clubs have approved the participation of three guest clubs for the forthcoming season. The Scottish FA supports the principle of elite player development and particularly providing opportunities for talented players in the key transition years from 17 to 21.

“The Scottish FA will oversee a discussion in parallel to propose and implement a long-term plan with the objectives of optimising the pyramid, which has been a resounding success in Scottish football, harnessing the player pathway and accelerating the development of the country’s most talented young players through the national youth teams to the full international stage.”

 

Thomas Brown, Chairman, Lowland League, said: “We were always open to the inclusion of guest clubs for a further season given the successful player development outcomes from last year’s pilot.  We want to be a modern and progressive league and we are excited to be playing our part in the eco system that develops Scotland’s talent.

“Importantly we now look forward to working with the Scottish FA, the SPFL and our friends in the pyramid to create some new solutions to some existing challenges which will provide a bright future at all levels of our game.”

 

Neil Doncaster, Chief Executive, SPFL, said: “It is hugely encouraging to see such a joined-up and collaborative approach being adopted in such a vital area of our game.

“There are few more exciting things in football than watching the development of home-grown talent and it’s extremely encouraging that the Lowland League has agreed to assist our clubs on a temporary basis for Season 2022/23.

“The SPFL will commit our energies to a process that will explore options and, hopefully, allow us to move forward various aspects of our game for the benefit of our 42 member clubs and Scottish football as a whole.”

[Mikey1874]

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/b-team-start-life-in-lowland-league-at-ferguson-park

[Mikey1874]

Being a slightly harder route to get in the league has certainly brought good resilient clubs in. 

 

Not a hint of anyone going back down. So it's a clear direction of travel. A replacement. 

[Bob Loblaw]

Hard to have much sympathy for the LL while they continue to vote against more relegation and promotion into their league. Complain about it stifling the pyramid while doing the exact same thing.

[Chuck Berry]

40 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Well that's the LL going to be shafted again by the SPFL (in particular by League 2).

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/spfl-reconstruction-faces-league-two-24338553

 

Any attempt to force through league reconstruction for season 2023/24 will be snubbed by League Two clubs who aren’t willing to see the game changed.

The SFA promised to lead a review of the pyramid as part of the deal that allowed three Premiership B teams to enter the Lowland League for a second season. Celtic, Hearts and Rangers will all take part in the fifth tier next season. But the Scottish Sun claim all 10 League Two clubs have made it clear they won’t take part in any restructuring talks ahead of the new campaign. They will snub any bid to change the league structure, with one of the ideas being floated that they could introduce a fifth SPFL tier.

 

It means any plan is likely to be rejected because it would need 75 per cent of League One and Two clubs combined but with all the bottom tier sides against it, the reconstruction plans now look doomed. League Two clubs were left fizzing by the statement that confirmed the three clubs being entered into the Lowland League because it promised reconstruction talks.

 

But they have been completely against it from the outset and don’t want any part in it.

Clubs in the Lowland League voted to allow the Colt teams into the league for season 2022/23, although it was a close one with the league chairman having to split the vote.

Part of the agreement saw a proposal for a fifth tier made up of B teams, clubs promoted from the Highland and Lowland League as well as relegated League Two sides had been suggested but that now faces a snub.

 

League clubs aren't going to entertain any discussions unless B teams are removed from the equation.  They have consistently resisted the entry of B teams.

[Locky]

It's a bit of a shame that the club today announced that Locky's testimonial will take place on the 23rd July, coinciding with the B teams opening clash at home to Berwick.

 

Was looking forward to going to that but now feel a bit conflicted. Any chance of the B team game maybe getting moved to the Friday night or the Sunday?

 

Would've been good to even have the B game moved to Tynecastle and played earlier if Berwick agreed to it, and had back to back games. Sadly think the B game will get a much lower crowd than maybe anticipated.

[That thing you do]

4 hours ago, Locky said:

It's a bit of a shame that the club today announced that Locky's testimonial will take place on the 23rd July, coinciding with the B teams opening clash at home to Berwick.

 

Was looking forward to going to that but now feel a bit conflicted. Any chance of the B team game maybe getting moved to the Friday night or the Sunday?

 

Would've been good to even have the B game moved to Tynecastle and played earlier if Berwick agreed to it, and had back to back games. Sadly think the B game will get a much lower crowd than maybe anticipated.

It would make an interesting product that the B team opens a football day with Premiership games shortly after. The issue of course is any fans travelling from lowland clubs mingling with away fans from somewhere else. 

 

When i lived in Korea id go and watch Jeju United and they did do that and even family picnics and bbqs in between. But koreans do things very differently. Cracking place to watch a game of football though.

[RobboM]

5 hours ago, Locky said:

It's a bit of a shame that the club today announced that Locky's testimonial will take place on the 23rd July, coinciding with the B teams opening clash at home to Berwick.

 

Was looking forward to going to that but now feel a bit conflicted. Any chance of the B team game maybe getting moved to the Friday night or the Sunday?

 

Would've been good to even have the B game moved to Tynecastle and played earlier if Berwick agreed to it, and had back to back games. Sadly think the B game will get a much lower crowd than maybe anticipated.

Sorry Locky but this highlights just a few of things that is wrong about B teams. The idea that fixtures can just be moved about at the whim of a B team and home ground picking and choosing to suit the B team. The OF did this last season in the Lowland League and should have been booted out.

[TyphoonJambo]

3 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Sorry Locky but this highlights just a few of things that is wrong about B teams. The idea that fixtures can just be moved about at the whim of a B team and home ground picking and choosing to suit the B team. The OF did this last season in the Lowland League and should have been booted out.

To be fair, Celtic done similar in the Prem league by playing a friendly on a planned league game day. Nothing happened.

[Niemi’s gloves]

2 hours ago, RobboM said:

Sorry Locky but this highlights just a few of things that is wrong about B teams. The idea that fixtures can just be moved about at the whim of a B team and home ground picking and choosing to suit the B team. The OF did this last season in the Lowland League and should have been booted out.

All true but it is also true that Hearts have said that all dates are subject to change if they clash with Whitehill Welfare’s schedule (in the EoSL)

[Locky]

4 hours ago, RobboM said:

Sorry Locky but this highlights just a few of things that is wrong about B teams. The idea that fixtures can just be moved about at the whim of a B team and home ground picking and choosing to suit the B team. The OF did this last season in the Lowland League and should have been booted out.

That’s a fair point, just wondered if it was even worth exploring. If Berwick Rangers are happy to move the fixture to even say, Friday evening, then I don’t see a big issue.

 

If it was at Shielfield and they moved it in the interests of bolstering crowds then I doubt they’d have any complaints.

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

All true but it is also true that Hearts have said that all dates are subject to change if they clash with Whitehill Welfare’s schedule (in the EoSL)

Surely this will be an issue for the old firm teams too are they not playing at lower league clubs grounds too as a part of the proviso to take part

[Niemi’s gloves]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

Surely this will be an issue for the old firm teams too are they not playing at lower league clubs grounds too as a part of the proviso to take part

Yes, Rangers B at Dumbarton and Celtic B at Airdrie. Also applies to East Stirling (at Falkirk stadium) and University of Stirling (at Stirling Albion’s Forthbank). In addition, Cumbernauld Colts and Broomhill are ground sharing at Broadwood stadium now that Clyde have moved out. 

[ericb]

Who is playing in this B team? Is it Under 18s, and if so are they not playing in the league they were in last season, or didn't they have one?

[Locky]

4 minutes ago, ericb said:

Who is playing in this B team? Is it Under 18s, and if so are they not playing in the league they were in last season, or didn't they have one?

Under 18's will still likely play in that league as Celtic and Rangers did last season. Our under 18 team this year will no doubt be very young and the B team will basically be a Reserve team likely featuring youngsters who are 18/19 but not quite first team ready. Can't remember the ins and outs on player registration but hopefully a few first teamers getting game time now and again.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

They've made a guddle of it, haven't they?

 

Seems hard to argue the fact that the current 42 team SPFL is the wrong size. Either it needs to be smaller or larger, and if it's larger it probably should be regionalized at the lowest level. At least there's nominal promotion and relegation now, which has given us some bright new clubs like Cove and Bonnyrigg, who are showing some ambition and purpose.

[Footballfirst]

36 minutes ago, ericb said:

Who is playing in this B team? Is it Under 18s, and if so are they not playing in the league they were in last season, or didn't they have one?

Probably an U20 side with one or two U18s. Will be on the lines of:

McFarlane

Darge Flatman Dall

Denholm Pollock Gordon Tait Watson

Thomas Kirk

 

The older ones will either be with the first team squad or go out on loan as before, e.g. Stone, Smith, McGill and Logan.

 

It's not a great outlook for the youngsters when Robbie confirmed that he had 17 outfield players in Spain but was looking for more to come in, when we have Atkinson, Rowles, Halkett and  Beningime still to return.

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

They've made a guddle of it, haven't they?

 

Seems hard to argue the fact that the current 42 team SPFL is the wrong size. Either it needs to be smaller or larger, and if it's larger it probably should be regionalized at the lowest level. At least there's nominal promotion and relegation now, which has given us some bright new clubs like Cove and Bonnyrigg, who are showing some ambition and purpose.

 

What I think the current restricted system does is make the promoted clubs stronger and more resilient.

 

Over time it will produce a big change in the SPFL clubs and any relegated side less likely to be able to return. 

 

It might be okay as is. 

[Nucky Thompson]

Hearts B in Berwick in January.

Bugger. Wish it was in August 

[Footballfirst]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

What I think the current restricted system does is make the promoted clubs stronger and more resilient.

 

Over time it will produce a big change in the SPFL clubs and any relegated side less likely to be able to return. 

 

It might be okay as is. 

In Bonnyrigg's case, the difference in cash between the LL and L2 is huge.  They earned next to nothing for winning the LL league, so they relied on decent numbers coming through the gate.

 

Next season they can rely on an extra £50k for their SPFL merit payment, £22k guaranteed for being in the League Cup, another £17k for their TV game against Hibs.  They have also increased their ST numbers by at least a third to over 400. The gate prices have also gone up from £7/£4 to £12/£7.  All in all it will take their resources to another level. 

[Hmfc1965]

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

In Bonnyrigg's case, the difference in cash between the LL and L2 is huge.  They earned next to nothing for winning the LL league, so they relied on decent numbers coming through the gate.

 

Next season they can rely on an extra £50k for their SPFL merit payment, £22k guaranteed for being in the League Cup, another £17k for their TV game against Hibs.  They have also increased their ST numbers by at least a third to over 400. The gate prices have also gone up from £7/£4 to £12/£7.  All in all it will take their resources to another level. 

Assuming people are happy to pay £12.

I know it's a bit different but FC Edinburgh or whatever they're called this week are now charging £18.

I think they'll lose a few people who would otherwise have gone. 

[jambo19]

22 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Probably an U20 side with one or two U18s. Will be on the lines of:

McFarlane

Darge Flatman Dall

Denholm Pollock Gordon Tait Watson

Thomas Kirk

 

The older ones will either be with the first team squad or go out on loan as before, e.g. Stone, Smith, McGill and Logan.

 

It's not a great outlook for the youngsters when Robbie confirmed that he had 17 outfield players in Spain but was looking for more to come in, when we have Atkinson, Rowles, Halkett and  Beningime still to return.

After hearing Neilson on the end of season scarves around the funnel, saying young lads need to earn a right to play for Hearts, it's almost like Neilson will try and implement them into the team at the early 20s stage like Smith or Henderson who have come through the youth ranks then done a few stints on loan.

 

Instead of skipping the loan stage and introducing lads at 17 to first team football. Appreciate Kirk and Thomas got in last year but I can't see them being in the first team squad, like you say with the names missing and us now having a full time B team operating in a league.

 

For me youths need introduced to the first team much earlier but the demands of playing for Hearts and pleasing the fans can also hamper that as we need 3rd place, Europe and cup runs. Taking a risk on a youth over say Devlin or Atkinson could work but could backfire 

[Kiwidoug]

FF.  Do you know if a guy like Beni, working his way back from injury, can play in this league?

[Footballfirst]

10 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

FF.  Do you know if a guy like Beni, working his way back from injury, can play in this league?

If the eligibility rules are similar to those from last season, then no.  You were only allowed an U21 keeper and one U21 outfield player, otherwise it was U20 for everyone else.

[Chuck Berry]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

If the eligibility rules are similar to those from last season, then no.  You were only allowed an U21 keeper and one U21 outfield player, otherwise it was U20 for everyone else.

 

I think the age cap has been removed, although a certain amount of players must be eligible for Scotland.

[tazhearts]

Everton are apparently looking to loan out Sims and Jarrad Branthwaite.  A wee double loan deal would be nice 😀.

[Tasavallan]

4 hours ago, tazhearts said:

Everton are apparently looking to loan out Sims and Jarrad Branthwaite.  A wee double loan deal would be nice 😀.

Methinks this post is on the wrong thread.

[Dunks]

Interesting to see a League 1 manager saying he is being outbid by Lowland League teams for players. Smashes the myth earlier in the thread that LL pay peanuts.

[RustyRightPeg]

41 minutes ago, Dunks said:

Interesting to see a League 1 manager saying he is being outbid by Lowland League teams for players. Smashes the myth earlier in the thread that LL pay peanuts.

Certain LL clubs can pay top dollar. Broomhill are the latest, following on from Kelty, Bonnyrigg, East Kilbride to name a few…
 

The likes of CSS operate at a remarkably low budget considering how successful Gary Jardine has made them over the last 3 seasons. 

[jamboinglasgow]

29 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Certain LL clubs can pay top dollar. Broomhill are the latest, following on from Kelty, Bonnyrigg, East Kilbride to name a few…
 

The likes of CSS operate at a remarkably low budget considering how successful Gary Jardine has made them over the last 3 seasons. 

 

It does back up the real imbalance in Scottish football, where thanks to the limited pyramid, clubs are arguably in the wrong leagues. No wonder League two dont want any changes of restructuring.

[RustyRightPeg]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

It does back up the real imbalance in Scottish football, where thanks to the limited pyramid, clubs are arguably in the wrong leagues. No wonder League two dont want any changes of restructuring.

I think it’s a good thing. 
 

The likes of Berwick, East Stirling and Brechin have been exposed. They have no succession plan and no ambition and now the pyramid is in place they are being shown up and the teams with genuine ambition (Cove & Kelty) are good stories to follow

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said:

I think it’s a good thing. 
 

The likes of Berwick, East Stirling and Brechin have been exposed. They have no succession plan and no ambition and now the pyramid is in place they are being shown up and the teams with genuine ambition (Cove & Kelty) are good stories to follow

 

I completely agree, my problem is that the set up of the pyramid means its designed to minimise promotion and relegation, the bottom team of League 2 should go down and the winner of LL and HH play to see who goes up (not have another play-off against the bottom L2 side.)

[Chuck Berry]

10 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

I think it’s a good thing. 
 

The likes of Berwick, East Stirling and Brechin have been exposed. They have no succession plan and no ambition and now the pyramid is in place they are being shown up and the teams with genuine ambition (Cove & Kelty) are good stories to follow

 

I think Bonnyrigg are the only club to have gone up who have not had a rich benefactor pumping in cash.   Edinburgh City, Cove Rangers and Kelty Hearts didn't get their by hard work alone from their committee.

 

Tranent are also benefiting from this and outbid a L2 side for a player from Jeanfield Swifts.  Darvel of course are splashing cash all over the place, as are East Kilbride.

 

It'll only last so long.

[Hesh]

19 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

I think it’s a good thing. 
 

The likes of Berwick, East Stirling and Brechin have been exposed. They have no succession plan and no ambition and now the pyramid is in place they are being shown up and the teams with genuine ambition (Cove & Kelty) are good stories to follow

I’m not sure if your confusing succession planning and ambition with having a sugar daddy, situation at these clubs immediately changes if man with wallet arrives

Edited July 5, 2022 by Hesh

[Locky]

11 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I think Bonnyrigg are the only club to have gone up who have not had a rich benefactor pumping in cash.   Edinburgh City, Cove Rangers and Kelty Hearts didn't get their by hard work alone from their committee.

 

Tranent are also benefiting from this and outbid a L2 side for a player from Jeanfield Swifts.  Darvel of course are splashing cash all over the place, as are East Kilbride.

 

It'll only last so long.

Agree with Cove and Kelty, but not sure about the Lothians 2. City have always seemed to operate on a very modest budget. They got out of the Lowland League at the right time, as once they came up is when the likes of East Kilbride, Kelty etc. came right on the scene and I don't think City would've kept up with them.

 

I see Tranent's rise as very similar to Bonnyrigg's. They're a massively supported club for their level, and as such just outgrew the teams around them. Tranent outbidding a L2 side further flags up the imbalance in the pyramid.

[Locky]

Speaking of Bonnyrigg, I'm gonna head down to Musselburgh this evening to watch Athletic take on the Rose.