Pyramid Leagues Superthread

[Bob Loblaw]

I'd much rather we had a proper reserve league, this completely ruins the integrity of the LL and is a slap in the face for teams trying to climb the pyramid. Selfishly it's good from our POV, but it's a joke nothing else can be sorted out.

[milky_26]

17 minutes ago, Locky said:

Pleasantly surprised by this. Classic case of the fickle fan here. Was totally against their B teams being in the league last season but quite excited to see ours.

 

Question is now, who manages them? Naismith?

tbf last season most of us would have believed that this was only for the benefit of OF and no other side would get a team in it.

[Locky]

12 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Sunny Rosewell. 

Don't know if I fancy travelling out there too much.  

4 minutes ago, section s heart said:

Take it from this the SFA/ SPFL are now intending to step up and help unblock the pyramid feeding through to the LL. 

Here's hoping. It's great that it's opened up, but now its time to give clubs the fairest chance possible at rising the leagues.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Good stuff, will get to see Hearts when they come down to play Gala! Gala in the process of getting a new 4G pitch so it should be in good nick for the new season starting. Also the bonus of a bar at the club. Hopefully get a good few jambos travelling down to watch it, there's a decent number already down here but would be good to help give the Fairydean some much needed cash. 

GFR must have some cash as they have just signed Danny Galbraith from Bo'ness. You'll be lucky if he plays half the season such is his injury record.

[Locky]

Just now, milky_26 said:

tbf last season most of us would have believed that this was only for the benefit of OF and no other side would get a team in it.

Myself included. Glad we decided to go for it. Would've been a travesty if they got re-admitted and we were rejected.

 

Ann Budge sticking to her word to. I recall her saying that it was something we had plans for in the future and its came to fruition.

[jamboinglasgow]

16 minutes ago, Locky said:

Pleasantly surprised by this. Classic case of the fickle fan here. Was totally against their B teams being in the league last season but quite excited to see ours.

 

Question is now, who manages them? Naismith?

 

Pretty much the same (though unlike the Old Firm we tried to get a reserve league going before going for this option.) 

 

I think this is ideal for getting youngsters ready to play when needed for the first team, something that will be needed this season. Also means youngsters are getting game time and not going on loan only to be on the bench all the time like some loans we have done.

 

Also hopefully its not hollow words from SFA, SPFL and LL and there is real action done to look into young players development and also dealing with the pyramid. A bit of leadership is needed there (I know little chance considering the organisations I just listed.)

[Locky]

5 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Good stuff, will get to see Hearts when they come down to play Gala! Gala in the process of getting a new 4G pitch so it should be in good nick for the new season starting. Also the bonus of a bar at the club. Hopefully get a good few jambos travelling down to watch it, there's a decent number already down here but would be good to help give the Fairydean some much needed cash. 

Great season for it to happen, what with the first team playing a number of Sunday matches. Means there should be decent crowds watching the B team. Would like us to play the uglies colts at Tynecastle too.

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

GFR must have some cash as they have just signed Danny Galbraith from Bo'ness. You'll be lucky if he plays half the season such is his injury record.

Jeezo, didn't know what he was upto these days. Think he's from Galashiels too.

[Footballfirst]

Civil Service Strollers voted against admitting guest clubs.

 

From their president:

We now know that we will have Cowdenbeath and Tranent, as well as 3 guest clubs in the Lowland League next season, so a warm welcome to them all. We didn’t vote for guest clubs as we feel the pyramid should be respected, but football beats politics and we look forward to welcoming Celtic, Hearts and Rangers as warmly as anyone else to Christie Gillies Park this coming season. I just hope the ‘jam tomorrow’ on offer of fairer promotion/relegation across the pyramid now comes to fruition.

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, Locky said:

Jeezo, didn't know what he was upto these days. Think he's from Galashiels too.

 

[PapaShango]

10 minutes ago, Locky said:

Great season for it to happen, what with the first team playing a number of Sunday matches. Means there should be decent crowds watching the B team. Would like us to play the uglies colts at Tynecastle too.

Jeezo, didn't know what he was upto these days. Think he's from Galashiels too.

Yeah he is, think he has been there a while now. GFR done ok last season they beat Rangers B at home and done well in the Scottish Cup before getting beat from Annan. They really struggle to get any local players playing for them though, too many go for the egg shaped ball down here. They are a proper community club though and have teams at various youth levels playing so hopefully some make it to the first team. 

[TyphoonJambo]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Civil Service Strollers voted against admitting guest clubs.

 

From their president:

We now know that we will have Cowdenbeath and Tranent, as well as 3 guest clubs in the Lowland League next season, so a warm welcome to them all. We didn’t vote for guest clubs as we feel the pyramid should be respected, but football beats politics and we look forward to welcoming Celtic, Hearts and Rangers as warmly as anyone else to Christie Gillies Park this coming season. I just hope the ‘jam tomorrow’ on offer of fairer promotion/relegation across the pyramid now comes to fruition.

Pity the Gunner is no more. A short stroll to their ground from where it used to be. Still the Civil service bar is decent.

[Footballfirst]

I can see SPFL League 2 being extended to 16 teams from season 2023/24 to accommodate B teams and open up promotion/relegation with the LL. 

 

There may be some opposition from SPFL L2 clubs, but I think that there will be increased pressure from the SPFL Premiership Clubs to accommodate "B" teams.  The L2 sides may also look at what has happened to the clubs relegated to the LL and HL and recognise the need to create a more open pathway back into the SPFL. 

[Locky]

5 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Yeah he is, think he has been there a while now. GFR done ok last season they beat Rangers B at home and done well in the Scottish Cup before getting beat from Annan. They really struggle to get any local players playing for them though, too many go for the egg shaped ball down here. They are a proper community club though and have teams at various youth levels playing so hopefully some make it to the first team. 

Aye, I know that feeling. Stayed in Hawick for a few years when I was younger and popped down a few times to watch the Albert. A once good club at that level, they've been awful the whole time I've kept an eye on their results. Hawick has a population of over 10,000 and yet crowds watching Hawick I doubt even hit 100.

[Mysterion]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Civil Service Strollers voted against admitting guest clubs.

 

From their president:

We now know that we will have Cowdenbeath and Tranent, as well as 3 guest clubs in the Lowland League next season, so a warm welcome to them all. We didn’t vote for guest clubs as we feel the pyramid should be respected, but football beats politics and we look forward to welcoming Celtic, Hearts and Rangers as warmly as anyone else to Christie Gillies Park this coming season. I just hope the ‘jam tomorrow’ on offer of fairer promotion/relegation across the pyramid now comes to fruition.

 

I would like to see more about this specific reference in the SFA statement

• Each guest club will provide funding to help develop the league and its clubs.

I think the 3 guest clubs should be working with the league administrators to publish a plan on how they will support the league and the participants in a meaningful manner. 

[John Findlay]

Money talks the loudest.

[Saint Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I would like to see more about this specific reference in the SFA statement

• Each guest club will provide funding to help develop the league and its clubs.

I think the 3 guest clubs should be working with the league administrators to publish a plan on how they will support the league and the participants in a meaningful manner. 

 

Is that not just a fancy way of saying each club is paying a £40k entry fee?

Edited June 7, 2022 by Saint Jambo

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I would like to see more about this specific reference in the SFA statement

• Each guest club will provide funding to help develop the league and its clubs.

I think the 3 guest clubs should be working with the league administrators to publish a plan on how they will support the league and the participants in a meaningful manner. 

The figure of £40k per club was mooted before the vote.

 

I also understand that the OF clubs made a further donation to the LL from the proceeds of the games between the pair that were held at Ibrox and Parkhead.  The attendance at Ibrox was reported to be in excess of 9,000.

[Saint Jambo]

Can anyone recap the rules around b-team players?

 

Also which of our young players are likely to qualify and which (if any) are already to old?

 

Presumably we will see a significant reduction in loan players out next season as a result. The review will be interesting as L1 and L2 teams may see B teams a s a threat to their ability to have half a dozen players on loan from the Premiership at no cost.

[TheBigO]

41 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Following positive and collaborative discussions between the board of the Scottish Lowland Football League, representatives from the Scottish FA and the Scottish Professional Football League, plus Celtic, Heart of Midlothian and Rangers, a revised proposition for season 2022/23 has been agreed. 

This proposition allows the three guest clubs to participate in the Lowland League for season 2022/23. In addition, the respective league bodies have agreed to participate in the Scottish FA’s pyramid working group discussions aimed at providing a longer-term solution to optimise the structure and aid the transition of talented players between the ages of 17 and 21.

Following a positive vote, the plan commits to the following:

• Celtic, Heart of Midlothian and Rangers will join the Lowland League for season 2022/23, creating a 19-team league for one season only. This will result in a 36-game fixture calendar.
• Guest clubs are required to field seven players eligible for Scotland national teams in the starting line-up.
• Each guest club will provide funding to help develop the league and its clubs.
• The Scottish FA will lead on a review of the pyramid structure, with recommendations proposed ahead of the 2023/24 season.

Ian Maxwell, Chief Executive Scottish FA: “We are delighted that the Lowland League clubs have approved the participation of three guest clubs for the forthcoming season. The Scottish FA supports the principle of elite player development and particularly providing opportunities for talented players in the key transition years from 17 to 21.

“The Scottish FA will oversee a discussion in parallel to propose and implement a long-term plan with the objectives of optimising the pyramid, which has been a resounding success in Scottish football, harnessing the player pathway and accelerating the development of the country’s most talented young players through the national youth teams to the full international stage.”

Thomas Brown, Chairman, Lowland League, said: “We were always open to the inclusion of guest clubs for a further season given the successful player development outcomes from last year’s pilot.  We want to be a modern and progressive league and we are excited to be playing our part in the eco system that develops Scotland’s talent.

“Importantly we now look forward to working with the Scottish FA, the SPFL and our friends in the pyramid to create some new solutions to some existing challenges which will provide a bright future at all levels of our game.”

Neil Doncaster, Chief Executive, SPFL, said: “It is hugely encouraging to see such a joined-up and collaborative approach being adopted in such a vital area of our game.

“There are few more exciting things in football than watching the development of home-grown talent and it’s extremely encouraging that the Lowland League has agreed to assist our clubs on a temporary basis for Season 2022/23.

“The SPFL will commit our energies to a process that will explore options and, hopefully, allow us to move forward various aspects of our game for the benefit of our 42 member clubs and Scottish football as a whole.”

Those pricks Maxwell and Doncaster getting in there saying how great this is.  Aye, no thanks to you ya pair of nomark pen pushers.  Seriously, this has happened because our club isn't willing to just sit there and rot like the SFA and SPFL would have us do, nothing to do with a "joined-up collaborative approach", or certainly not one you've harnessed Doncaster ya predatory looking bucket of dicks ye.

 

Anyway, that said, delighted with this!!! hahaha

 

My only question is: will the lads playing in this B team be eligible to play for our first team?  Or can they only move between the two during windows.  If it's the former, this is brilliant, if it's the second, I'm less keen in truth and would much, much rather have a reserve league.

 

Mind you the benefits of playing 36 competitive games next season will be amazing for our kids.  That obv includes 4 games against the OF equivalents which is great for them too.

[TheBigO]

13 minutes ago, Locky said:

Aye, I know that feeling. Stayed in Hawick for a few years when I was younger and popped down a few times to watch the Albert. A once good club at that level, they've been awful the whole time I've kept an eye on their results. Hawick has a population of over 10,000 and yet crowds watching Hawick I doubt even hit 100.

Try to get the people of Hawick excited about anything mate!  Worked there a bit, one of the most negative places I've ever been involved in, it was like nothing I've ever seen before in truth, an attitude all to their own, so no surprise they wouldn't support their own local club!  Lot's of salt of the earth types, don't get me wrong, but jeez, try to suggest the slightest change or a bit of optimism, the pitchforks come oot!!

[PapaShango]

3 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Try to get the people of Hawick excited about anything mate!  Worked there a bit, one of the most negative places I've ever been involved in, it was like nothing I've ever seen before in truth, an attitude all to their own, so no surprise they wouldn't support their own local club!  Lot's of salt of the earth types, don't get me wrong, but jeez, try to suggest the slightest change or a bit of optimism, the pitchforks come oot!!

It's not just Hawick, the Borders as a whole has a whole host of people negative about any change! 

[hmfcdaz01]

Does this mean Hearts will play St Andrews United ?

[Locky]

6 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Try to get the people of Hawick excited about anything mate!  Worked there a bit, one of the most negative places I've ever been involved in, it was like nothing I've ever seen before in truth, an attitude all to their own, so no surprise they wouldn't support their own local club!  Lot's of salt of the earth types, don't get me wrong, but jeez, try to suggest the slightest change or a bit of optimism, the pitchforks come oot!!

You're not wrong there at all mate. Right weird place at times.

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

It's not just Hawick, the Borders as a whole has a whole host of people negative about any change! 

Yup and my job was essentially change management (within their food and drink sector).  I ended up giving up!

 

"Aye bin!"

[Perth to Paisley]

Was it passed on the Chairman's casting vote aa I have been led to believe?

 

Doesn't sound that "collaborative" 

[Mikey1874]

The difference with Hearts joining is that it is far more likely that a Hearts player from the B squad will progress to the first team. 

 

All the talk of being good for Scottish football is meaningless with the riches that allow Celtic and Rangers to keep buying £million players every season. 

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

Can anyone recap the rules around b-team players?

 

Also which of our young players are likely to qualify and which (if any) are already to old?

 

Presumably we will see a significant reduction in loan players out next season as a result. The review will be interesting as L1 and L2 teams may see B teams a s a threat to their ability to have half a dozen players on loan from the Premiership at no cost.

 

Squad of 22 before season starts 

 

Maximum of 5 first team games in season 

 

U20s with 1 U21 keeper and outfield player 

[Saint Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Squad of 22 before season starts 

 

Maximum of 5 first team games in season 

 

U20s with 1 U21 keeper and outfield player 

 

Thanks.

 

So it is one U21 outfield player in the squad of 22?

 

Presumably being an unused sub doesn't count towards those 5 first team games?

[Mysterion]

26 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Is that not just a fancy way of saying each club is paying a £40k entry fee?

 

24 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The figure of £40k per club was mooted before the vote.

 

I also understand that the OF clubs made a further donation to the LL from the proceeds of the games between the pair that were held at Ibrox and Parkhead.  The attendance at Ibrox was reported to be in excess of 9,000.

 

Yeah it's going to be related to the entry fee but generally I feel that if you are going to make a fundamental change then the consequences of that should have a tangible method of showing they made a difference.

 

For example, my earlier post was meaning there is absolutely no point giving out money from the 3 clubs which can disappear without accountability. Surely makes sense that there is a written plan/money handed out on a project by project basis to show defined infrastructure improvements (eg. clubs adding all weather pitches for community training, clubs improving facilities etc).

[Mikey1874]

59 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

I'd much rather we had a proper reserve league, this completely ruins the integrity of the LL and is a slap in the face for teams trying to climb the pyramid. Selfishly it's good from our POV, but it's a joke nothing else can be sorted out.

 

Young players playing against adults is fine. 

 

But they do much better playing WITH adults. 

[Footballfirst]

14 minutes ago, Perth to Paisley said:

Was it passed on the Chairman's casting vote aa I have been led to believe?

 

Doesn't sound that "collaborative" 

I've seen that reported, but also that there were no nominees for the four vacant positions on the LL Board at last week's AGM.  Doesn't sound that the Board and the clubs are as one on anything at the moment.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

52 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

A good jambo is Danny we used to take him up on the Borders Hearts bus to games with his rugby playing Dad

[jamboinglasgow]

21 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The difference with Hearts joining is that it is far more likely that a Hearts player from the B squad will progress to the first team. 

 

All the talk of being good for Scottish football is meaningless with the riches that allow Celtic and Rangers to keep buying £million players every season. 

 

yup. Hearts wanted to join because they needed to find a solution which could develop youngsters and mean they are match fit for the first team when needed (something Robbie and Joe have been vocal about.) We have tried to find a solution that got a reserve league up and running but there was not the appetite. 

 

We are well sorted with the rule about 7 players eligible for Scotland must be in the starting line up, as all our young players qualify for Scotland (even Mackenzie Kirk, though he is representing Northern Ireland U19, he was born in Edinburgh so can still player for Scotland.) Something I will be interested to see is with this, I wonder if we may target a few youngsters released from English academies?

[Dick Dastardly]

1 hour ago, Locky said:

Pleasantly surprised by this. Classic case of the fickle fan here. Was totally against their B teams being in the league last season but quite excited to see ours.

 

Question is now, who manages them? Naismith?

I was against it because I felt it gave them an unfair advantage being the only ones allowed to have B teams. 

I think it might be Naismith who gets the job. I think he would relish tge chance. Robbo would be a great guy to have, instead, but i can't see him jacking in a sporting director role to manage in that league. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm not a hypocrite. This was BS when it involved the weegies and it is still BS now.

[Gorgie_Rules]

59 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Squad of 22 before season starts 

 

Maximum of 5 first team games in season 

 

U20s with 1 U21 keeper and outfield player 

Sorry potentially being thick here but does that mean once a player has played 5 times in the first team they are no longer eligible to play in the B team again? If so, it could leave us in a position whereby we don’t give a youngster and additional game as we see further benefit to them playing say 15 B team games over 1 first team then sitting on the bench for the rest of the the season. I guess its a fair rule for the competition however.

 

Will we keep an under 18s squad or is this B team instead?

[Footballfirst]

Here is a reference to the proposed rules for guest clubs as posted in another thread.

 

On 20/04/2022 at 10:02, Rudi Hates Hibees said:

The lowland league have set the criteria for guest teams for next season. 

Interestingly they seem to have removed the age criteria. 
Personally I hope this is something Hearts pursue. Although I’ve no idea if we can meet the new criteria.
 

 

[TheBigO]

32 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

A good jambo is Danny we used to take him up on the Borders Hearts bus to games with his rugby playing Dad

That must've been awkward, I mean playing rugby on a bus is quite intrusive.

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Sorry potentially being thick here but does that mean once a player has played 5 times in the first team they are no longer eligible to play in the B team again? If so, it could leave us in a position whereby we don’t give a youngster and additional game as we see further benefit to them playing say 15 B team games over 1 first team then sitting on the bench for the rest of the the season. I guess its a fair rule for the competition however.

 

Will we keep an under 18s squad or is this B team instead?

I guess in theory once a player has played 6 times for the first team, he's part of that squad.  Not sure I agree or not, really but that's the theory.

 

For me, the ideal would be someone like C Smith can be on the bench of the first team every week and get the odd 10 mins here and there as games dictate but keep ticking over in the B team week in week out.  The 5 game rule rules this out.

 

BUT it's better for him than being on loan, you'd think.  At least he is available for the first team to an extent and if he does well for the B team, gets his 5 appearances in the first team, he's earnt his place in the 1sts squad.  Current option of going on loan and essentially being stuck there is shit once a guy is in that inbetween stage imo.

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Sorry potentially being thick here but does that mean once a player has played 5 times in the first team they are no longer eligible to play in the B team again? If so, it could leave us in a position whereby we don’t give a youngster and additional game as we see further benefit to them playing say 15 B team games over 1 first team then sitting on the bench for the rest of the the season. I guess its a fair rule for the competition however.

 

Will we keep an under 18s squad or is this B team instead?

 

It seems the 5 games is per transfer window period rather than season. 

 

So say plays 5 first team games by October, can't play for B team till January. 

 

I took the info from a Celtic blog who got it from journalist. Probably get the full rules soon. 

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Here is a reference to the proposed rules for guest clubs as posted in another thread.

 

 

 

Exploitation of commercial stuff .................................. Colts on Hearts TV giving greater exposure to opposition clubs 

[Sooks]

I think we need to get down to the nitty gritty in these discussions though too ........................ get that milk carton looking league emblem and branding in the bin if we are going to grace it with our young lads

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, Locky said:

 

Double post

Edited June 7, 2022 by Dick Dastardly
Double post

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It seems the 5 games is per transfer window period rather than season. 

 

So say plays 5 first team games by October, can't play for B team till January. 

 

I took the info from a Celtic blog who got it from journalist. Probably get the full rules soon. 

Ah OK, that would be good actually.

 

And I guess they simply just become ineligible for the B team for that period should they go over.  In which case, not overly a big deal I suppose.

 

I like that Naismith (if he's the man) also is essentially on this pathway albeit as a manager.  It's good from that point of view too.  This is also coach development, which is just as important in a way.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

 

Exploitation of commercial stuff .................................. Colts on Hearts TV giving greater exposure to opposition clubs 

 

Could be, maybe they could get a deal with BBC Scotland for games.

[Dick Dastardly]

One thing the B team doesn't really address is getting over age players back to fitness or keeping them ticking over. The later might not be too much of a problem before christmas, i suppose. 

Could be handy for getting Beni back up to full steam though

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Could be, maybe they could get a deal with BBC Scotland for games.

 

Both would be nice good shout

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Ah OK, that would be good actually.

 

And I guess they simply just become ineligible for the B team for that period should they go over.  In which case, not overly a big deal I suppose.

 

I like that Naismith (if he's the man) also is essentially on this pathway albeit as a manager.  It's good from that point of view too.  This is also coach development, which is just as important in a way.

 

The key thing seemed to be the squads should be separate. 

 

Good news if they've dropped the age restriction but less likely we would take on older players who don't play 5 games. 

[TheBigO]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The key thing seemed to be the squads should be separate. 

 

Good news if they've dropped the age restriction but less likely we would take on older players who don't play 5 games. 

Yup agreed.  If we signed someone like the lad Neilson for Dutd, be interesting to see if he played a few games for the Bs

[Jambo in Bathgate]

2 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Pretty much the same (though unlike the Old Firm we tried to get a reserve league going before going for this option.) 

 

I think this is ideal for getting youngsters ready to play when needed for the first team, something that will be needed this season. Also means youngsters are getting game time and not going on loan only to be on the bench all the time like some loans we have done.

 

Also hopefully its not hollow words from SFA, SPFL and LL and there is real action done to look into young players development and also dealing with the pyramid. A bit of leadership is needed there (I know little chance considering the organisations I just listed.)

Rangers and Celtic used their participation to their advantage last season. There won’t be many other clubs able to do this as every pound is a prisoner. This is ideal for our academy and returning injured players.