*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Aye you see players hitting the target from 50 yards week in week out right enough

You claimed hitting an open goal from inside the half as a wonder goal ( not a direct quote) and I replied in other sports hitting a smaller target from further, just as an example: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teixm6JMw_k&t=77s

 

Remember the target in this instance is smaller than a side plate, around the size of a beer mat as stated in commentary.

The guy maybe world champ but look at the difference in target and distance compared to an open goal from 40 yards.

 

[chrystaf]

17 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

No I said he will be the scapegoat. 

Fair point.

[dtgj]

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

Had time to get over the game yesterday. My thoughts (and if you don't agree that's ok).... 

 

Clarke could have changed the formation but didn't - he went for consistency and the "swap player X in for player Y" method that many managers do at the top level. Maybe he could have changed it but looking at the overall game/chances we had several opportunities - could have taken the lead/equalised. 

 

As the game progressed after the 2nd it was difficult to get back into the game however it's wrong to suggest we were rank rotten, we came up against a goalkeeper having a phenomenal game whilst our own went walkabout. 

 

It's a tough one to take - but the disappointment is reflective of the progress the squad has made. 

 

I do agree with this. I think we were ok yesterday. Could have been better but I think we were a long way away from being awful. Could and should have taken some chances and it would have been a different game - especially if Robertson had scored his chance in the first half to put us 1-0 up. 

 

And I still think neither England nor Croatia looked world class on Sunday and both our remaining games are winnable if we focus and perform well. 

 

48 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

What progress have we made. In last 6 competitive games, we have won 1 match in 90 minutes, and that was at home against Faroes. We lost last 2 Nations league games, we required 2 points to win group and blew play off place for 2022 world cup, and we drew against Israel and Austria in world cup qualifiers, Marshall being culpable for goals in each of them. We then got pumped yesterday with Marshall again at fault.

Manager and players lost focus after beating Serbia on pens and decided that they had succeeded. They put partying ahead of driving on and getting results. Players on the pish when we had game few days later to win Nations cup group. Unforgivable and unprofessional but glossed over as party in full swing.

We haven't really improved, we just got lucky with penalty shootouts.

In retrospect, if we had lost to Israel, manager might have been out and players like Hanley, O'Donnell and Marshall wouldn't have been seen again.

We might even have made better start at qualification for world cup.

 

But elements of this are also true. The team hasn't played as well as it can do since the Serbia game. The games in the Nations League directly afterwards weren't good enough. And we should have made a better start to World Cup qualifying. 

 

I just hope we can play to the best of our abilities for the rest of this tournament and beyond. That probably involves some personnel changes - O'Donnell especially isn't good enough at this level and Clarke needs to make some changes there. 

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You claimed hitting an open goal from inside the half as a wonder goal ( not a direct quote) and I replied in other sports hitting a smaller target from further, just as an example: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teixm6JMw_k&t=77s

 

Remember the target in this instance is smaller than a side plate, around the size of a beer mat as stated in commentary.

The guy maybe world champ but look at the difference in target and distance compared to an open goal from 40 yards.

 

Might be joining the argument late here so forgive me, but that is in no way comparable.  Skilful, yes, impressive, defo.  Practices that exact shot, in those exact conditions over and over and over though.

 

But you have complete test conditions - football is spur of the moment, many intangibles.  Each phase something which has never looked the same before in some way shape or form.

 

It's a seriously, seriously good strike from the Czech lad.  Like seriously good.  Marshall at fault, but the strike is proper world class.

[JamboRossi79]

2 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Not a penalty for me. Not sure where the Czech defender can go.

 

Thought the ref had a superb game to be honest.

You need to watch that indicent back again as the Czech guy deliberately steps in front of McTominay and blocks him, I was shocked that VAR didn't pull that back, that's a foul anywhere else on pitch. If you want to see it again look at minute 46 of the game on BBC iplayer. I am also surprised that more wasn't made of it by the pundits etc

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, JamboRossi79 said:

You need to watch that indicent back again as the Czech guy deliberately steps in front of McTominay and blocks him, I was shocked that VAR didn't pull that back, that's a foul anywhere else on pitch. If you want to see it again look at minute 46 of the game on BBC iplayer. I am also surprised that more wasn't made of it by the pundits etc

Looks different from different angles, but agree with you, the Czech guy stepped in to him.  I said the old cliché straight away too - outside the box, foul every single time.  It was a pen.

[Rudy T]

3-5-1-1
 

Gordon

 

Patterson Hendry Cooper Tierney Robertson

 

Gilmore

McTominey McGinn

 

Armstrong

Adams

 

For the England game all but 2 have EPL experience know the England players well and won’t be phased by them. Will be more like an EPL match than an international.

 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

29 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Looks different from different angles, but agree with you, the Czech guy stepped in to him.  I said the old cliché straight away too - outside the box, foul every single time.  It was a pen.

I think most would agree it's a penalty and without delving into conspiracies, that would have been given to England, Germany, Spain etc. The fact is, Scotland is an irrelevance to world football and should the unbelievable  happen and we got to the final, the rating would drop and advertising revenue would plummet. So they don't want that, therefore they are happy for us to not compete.

It was clear in this first game as the officials gave us nothing when our players were clearly fouled, the penalty included.

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

3-5-1-1
 

Gordon

 

Patterson Hendry Cooper Tierney Robertson

 

Gilmore

McTominey McGinn

 

Armstrong

Adams

 

For the England game all but 2 have EPL experience know the England players well and won’t be phased by them. Will be more like an EPL match than an international.

 

 

I rate Armstrong but he was very passive yesterday I thought.

[colinmaroon]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I rate Armstrong but he was very passive yesterday I thought.

 

Still can't forget his stupid last minute pass v England. 

 

Good player but fades in and out of games.

[PortyJambo]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

3 points might not be enough as our goal difference could be severely dented by the Croatia game.

 

Only hope in that scenario would be for two 3rd place teams to finish on 2 points but that is highly unlikely.

 

Draw at Wembley and beat Croatia puts it to bed though ......🤣

 

Knowing Scotland we'll find a new way to not qualify and end up with 4 points by beating England and drawing with Croatia, but end up leaving the tournament as all 4 teams have 4 points and we miss out as 4th in the group on goal difference!

 

We beat England by 1 goal and draw with Croatia - 4 points, -1 GD

Croatia beat Czechs by 1 goal and draw with us - 4 points, 0 GD

Czechs lose to Croatia and draw with England - 4 points, +1 GD

England lose to us and draw with Czechs - 4 points, +1 GD

[dtgj]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I rate Armstrong but he was very passive yesterday I thought.

Improved a bit when Adams came on I thought. Must have an understanding from playing together at club level. Wouldn't mind both starting on Friday but probably wouldn't start Armstrong without Adams. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

36 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Might be joining the argument late here so forgive me, but that is in no way comparable.  Skilful, yes, impressive, defo.  Practices that exact shot, in those exact conditions over and over and over though.

 

But you have complete test conditions - football is spur of the moment, many intangibles.  Each phase something which has never looked the same before in some way shape or form.

 

It's a seriously, seriously good strike from the Czech lad.  Like seriously good.  Marshall at fault, but the strike is proper world class.

You don't understand shooting, the projectile ( in this case pellets ) drop due to weight and momentum and distance, factor in conditions ( it's not always calm and warm ). Also in this case the target is moving, it does not always leave the trap in the same way every time either. As the target rises it loses momentum and starts to drop, you also have to factor in the time it takes for the projectile to reach the target ( lead ). 

People think when a gun is fired the bullet goes straight, it doesn't, it flies in a parabola, as it leaves the barrel it rises and the drops, for example aim at a target at 50 meters and if the aim is correct you hit bulls eye, aim at the same spot and move the target to 100 meters and you miss by inches.

As for practicing the player mentioned they do practice and were watching for just this chance. professionals in any sport practice and some time ago sky sports had the cross bar challenge, a much harder target than an open goal.

Basically what I am trying to say is it was not a " wonder " goal but a complete F&*^% up by Marshall.

[TheBigO]

11 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I think most would agree it's a penalty and without delving into conspiracies, that would have been given to England, Germany, Spain etc. The fact is, Scotland is an irrelevance to world football and should the unbelievable  happen and we got to the final, the rating would drop and advertising revenue would plummet. So they don't want that, therefore they are happy for us to not compete.

It was clear in this first game as the officials gave us nothing when our players were clearly fouled, the penalty included.

Not sure it's quite as blatantly conspiratorial as that but I do agree.

 

We genuinely never seem to get lucky or borderline decisions.  We will see at least one penalty in this tournament that is softer than that incident, quite possibly even involving VAR, and it'll be for a bigger team.  Probably against Scotland!!!!

 

Hard to know if it's my own nerves, but I thought the ref yesterday was terrible.  Let so many clear fouls pass, but was then weirdly officious when we wanted to take quick freekicks etc.  Like he wanted the game to flow, but also didn't.  Wee niggly fouls matter in a tight game like that where it was all about territory, and I felt we missed out on quite a few.

[DETTY29]

 

 

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You don't understand shooting, the projectile ( in this case pellets ) drop due to weight and momentum and distance, factor in conditions ( it's not always calm and warm ). Also in this case the target is moving, it does not always leave the trap in the same way every time either. As the target rises it loses momentum and starts to drop, you also have to factor in the time it takes for the projectile to reach the target ( lead ). 

People think when a gun is fired the bullet goes straight, it doesn't, it flies in a parabola, as it leaves the barrel it rises and the drops, for example aim at a target at 50 meters and if the aim is correct you hit bulls eye, aim at the same spot and move the target to 100 meters and you miss by inches.

As for practicing the player mentioned they do practice and were watching for just this chance. professionals in any sport practice and some time ago sky sports had the cross bar challenge, a much harder target than an open goal.

Basically what I am trying to say is it was not a " wonder " goal but a complete F&*^% up by Marshall.

Can't it be both!?!

 

I'm not belittling the skill of the shootist guy.  But you can't belittle the skill of that shot from Schtick either.  It was perfect.  Look, David Beckham practiced freekicks a helluva lot.  But they were still a wonder to behold.

 

Every goal involved some form of defensive error, really.  The skill is taking the opportunity.  Their first goal.  Cross should never have come in.  What a bloody header though.  Perfect.

 

You can surely still admire the skill, while scalding the error??

 

Anyhoo, doesn't really matter, does it!?!?!  haha

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

TBF you can't be in the box or you'd be offside here.  We've got 7 players ahead of the ball here - if the ball goes wide, we have 5 players in position to attack a cross.  Can't really argue with that.

 

At this point in the second half, we were causing them a lot of problems.  It was a bit like the 5 mins previous to their first goal, you could feel it coming - that freak, calamitous, wonder goal was a real killer.

 

The biggest thing all game for me was O'Donnell and McGinn, one shouldn't be playing and the other can only play high up the pitch.  Clarke got both decisions wrong.  Forrest out wide right, McGinn and one other up around Adams and a solid midfield base of 2 (McTom and McGregor or Turnbul) was the way to go here.  It should be 343 but we played it 541 to start with and handed them impetus 

All spot on. 

[Costanza]

8 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

 

😄 Our ineptness at soccerball has gone global

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

3-5-1-1
 

Gordon

 

Patterson Hendry Cooper Tierney Robertson

 

Gilmore

McTominey McGinn

 

Armstrong

Adams

 

For the England game all but 2 have EPL experience know the England players well and won’t be phased by them. Will be more like an EPL match than an international.

 

 

Not sure about Armstrong, he was awful yesterday and after 15 minutes of losing the ball you could see he wasn’t going to get any better. After what he did last time against them he might want revenge but he seems too nice and might well go into his shell. 
Playing players that they know helps them too remember, not that we have many other options. 

[DETTY29]

 

[Spellczech]

3 hours ago, iantjambo said:

I think we’ll have a great chance of beating England if we play David Marshall in goal instead of midfield.

You do know that a good joke should have at least a little bit of truth in it?😈

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

Refer back to the comment from another poster that conflicts with this suggesting that they knew Marshall often moved off his line. 

 

 

 

That's not what I heard in the interview. He was asked if he had noticed Marshall tended to come off his line and he said yes, nothing about how it was discussed beforehand.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

24 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

 

It is a shame that Marshall decided to play" up in the pocket" with the rest of his team though.

[smiler]

12 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It's not blind loyalty, it's plain loyalty. Managers all over show it to their players, in some cases they get that loyalty back. Marshall had done nothing to deserve not to play against the Czechs. Pretty sure he'll be back on Friday too 

You’re right it’s not blind loyalty, it’s blind stupidity, especially if he’s picked for Wembley. 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You claimed hitting an open goal from inside the half as a wonder goal ( not a direct quote) and I replied in other sports hitting a smaller target from further, just as an example: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teixm6JMw_k&t=77s

 

Remember the target in this instance is smaller than a side plate, around the size of a beer mat as stated in commentary.

The guy maybe world champ but look at the difference in target and distance compared to an open goal from 40 yards.

 

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

4 hours ago, 132goals1958 said:

 

Evans above I take it you mean Adams

Yes sorry

[graygo]

29 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

 

[Rudy T]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

I rate Armstrong but he was very passive yesterday I thought.

Thought second half he started getting into it. He breaks the line, gets into scoring positions and plays week in week out with Adams. I think he offers more than Dykes.

[Homme]

I'd love to see Craig get the nod but reality is there are more important decision to be made with regards to the first XI. If he stays in goals so be it.

 

Marshall's **** up didn't cost us the match, it just compounded our misery. He made a few decent stops beforehand.

[Mikey1874]

Tierney back training today.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Tierney back training today.

Full training or less, couldn’t have been too serious an injury. 

[Pasquale for King]

Most coaches I’ve heard now have said Marshall was ten metres too high. 

[Taffin]

3 hours ago, chuck berrys hairline said:

Is Marshall still on the bus to Yoker? Prick! Should be hung drawn and quartered let the nation down badly. Schicks a Bundesliga striker only something  we could dream of having, ofcourse he meant it.

 

We've got a Premier League striker.

 

He was sat on the bench...

[smiler]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Most coaches I’ve heard now have said Marshall was ten metres too high. 

That’s a tall human that.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Might be joining the argument late here so forgive me, but that is in no way comparable.  Skilful, yes, impressive, defo.  Practices that exact shot, in those exact conditions over and over and over though.

 

But you have complete test conditions - football is spur of the moment, many intangibles.  Each phase something which has never looked the same before in some way shape or form.

 

It's a seriously, seriously good strike from the Czech lad.  Like seriously good.  Marshall at fault, but the strike is proper world class.

 

He hit it that well it would have beaten any keeper that was even at a normal distance from the goal. ( although he may have not tried it). 

Wasn't even a chip, it was a strike hit with some force and was near the top corner. 

 

It didn't just trundle or bounce in. 

 

Brilliant goal. 

His header was class as well - pin point. 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

21 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

We've got a Premier League striker.

 

He was sat on the bench...

 

Seems the Championship guy Dykes is first choice though. 

 

Probably because Clarke goes first with the guys who have been in squad longest. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, smiler said:

That’s a tall human that.

Hahahahaha, I meant drugs maaannn. 

[August Landmesser]

1 hour ago, PortyJambo said:

 

Knowing Scotland we'll find a new way to not qualify and end up with 4 points by beating England and drawing with Croatia, but end up leaving the tournament as all 4 teams have 4 points and we miss out as 4th in the group on goal difference!

 

We beat England by 1 goal and draw with Croatia - 4 points, -1 GD

Croatia beat Czechs by 1 goal and draw with us - 4 points, 0 GD

Czechs lose to Croatia and draw with England - 4 points, +1 GD

England lose to us and draw with Czechs - 4 points, +1 GD

England would be on 0 GD there too, but your overall point still stands - we'd feck it!

[Boab]

4 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Watch it again. That boy is no average Scot, that’s what a 20m Bundesliga striker looks like. He has practiced that in training and knows what he’s doing before the ball falls to him.

 

10 times out of 10, he drops that bomb right on the target. 
 

We as Scottish fans are just too used to watching pub standard strikers so the first thought is, that was a lucky strike. It wasn’t.

He’s decent.

Went to Sampdoria and done well. Moved to Roma but had a bad time of it there. Was referred as Patrick Shit !

Rather unfair !

If you’re completely off your rocker, betting wise, you can still get 150/1 on him being top scorer !

[smiler]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

If you’re completely off your rocker, betting wise, you can still get 150/1 on him being top scorer !

It’s worth a greyhound. He could have got his hat trick yesterday too.

[Boab]

Just now, smiler said:

It’s worth a greyhound. He could have got his hat trick yesterday too.

It is mental but sometimes 5 or 6 goals can win these things. Czechs are a draw away from possibly going through and if they did, even 3rd, would play the winners of Spain’s group. Stranger things have happened.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

It is mental but sometimes 5 or 6 goals can win these things. Czechs are a draw away from possibly going through and if they did, even 3rd, would play the winners of Spain’s group. Stranger things have happened.

It’s as I mentioned earlier, in the international game all you need is a good quality £10m-£20m striker who can mix it with top defenders and you are in the tournament, can beat anyone. Just 5 or 6 important goals can take you all the way as you say. Just a shame Scotland have never produced a top quality modern CF (ie big and athletic as well as scoring goals - all 3 teams in our group have that focal point, Kane, Rebic, Schick) .
 

You have to wonder what it is we do that just kills the production of proper CFs. **** all in more than 40 odd years.

[i8hibsh]

If either Hanley, O'Donnell or Dykes play v England it is certain defeat.

[graygo]

59 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

He hit it that well it would have beaten any keeper that was even at a normal distance from the goal. ( although he may have not tried it). 

Wasn't even a chip, it was a strike hit with some force and was near the top corner. 

 

It didn't just trundle or bounce in. 

 

Brilliant goal. 

His header was class as well - pin point. 

 

 

That can't be right, most pundits say he was 10 yards too far out. Presumably he would have had an easy save or the boy wouldn't have attempted the shot if he was that wee bit closer.

 

[graygo]

7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

If either Hanley, O'Donnell or Dykes play v England it is certain defeat.

 

If any of them play and we get beat you're surely not going to claim to be some kind of expert on player selection? Chances are we'll get horses regardless who plays.

[Boab]

7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

If either Hanley, O'Donnell or Dykes play v England it is certain defeat.

Think both O’Donnell and Dykes won’t start. Hanley has played a lot worse than yesterday so I think he’ll keep his place. I agree if they all start, it’ll be a bad decision.

[Cruyff]

There's nae danger Marshall will play in the next two fixtures. 

 

I'd imagine the team will be something like, 

 

                        Gordon

          Gallagher Hanley Tierney  

Patterson      McTominay     Robertson          

                  Gilmour  McGinn 

     Fraser/Forrest

                           Adams

        

                       

[Cruyff]

Just now, Boab said:

Think both O’Donnell and Dykes won’t start. Hanley has played a lot worse than yesterday so I think he’ll keep his place. I agree if they all start, it’ll be a bad decision.

I watched the game again last night, Hanley had a good game. 

[smiler]

Just now, Cruyff said:

I watched the game again last night, Hanley had a good game. 

I agree, I've never really rated him but fair doo's for yesterday. 

[Horatio Caine]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

There's nae danger Marshall will play in the next two fixtures. 

 

I'd imagine the team will be something like, 

 

                        Gordon

          Gallagher Hanley Tierney  

Patterson      McTominay     Robertson          

                  Gilmour  McGinn 

     Fraser/Forrest

                           Adams

        

                       

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Marshall kept his place.  Clarke not `blaming` him or even `punishing` him for the second Czeck goal.  Let's not demoralise the boy...vote of confidence and all that.

 

Frankly I'd rather it was CG in goal with McLaughlin on the bench.  Both better than Marshall imo.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Horatio Caine