*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[steven_mck]

Thought we deserved at least a draw based on pressure and chances. We must be the unluckiest nation around when it comes to tournament football. Still two games to try and turn it around. A draw and a win might be enough if the Czechs beat Croatia. My heart sank though when I saw the starting line-up today.

[jambo_74]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Eloquently put and 100% right. Roxburgh and Brown were the same - jobs for the boys. It got us nowhere. The only coach who tried to switch things up, partly because he had to because the previous managers just stuck with the same players who then got too old, was Bertie Vogts who got pilloried in the press for it.

 

Leaving the likes of Gordon and Adams on the bench was criminal. ODonnell has never looked anything close to an international player. And someone like Fraser would have pepped up the attack instead of so many central midfielders. The Marshall positioning thing is baffling but either way the buck stops with Clarke for the tactics and/or picking Marshall in the first place. I refuse to believe Marshall was told to be so far up the park though. If so, get Clarke binned as soon as we're out.

Great analysis, I couldn't agree more. First game isn't must not lose, it's must win, especially when you are at home, playing the so called weakest team in the group. Never a better chance and we bottled it due to the managers negativity. Granted, Tierney having to pull out definitely disrupted his plans somewhat. However, O'Donnell has been a weak link in the team since day one under Clarke. There should be no sentiment in International football, yet it appears Clarke feels obliged to stick with players even when they are quite obviously out of their depth.

 

We should have gone for the jugular from the first minute, playing players hungry to win, not happy to accept a draw as a positive result. That attitude is what inevitably led to the dismal performance which lacked spine, guille and a number of other adjectives that could easily sum up the inept display I had the misfortune of watching. I know there are always armchair pundits kicking around thinking they know better, but sod it, we should have started with Forrest or Fraser in the wingback position. Especially given the lack of an overlap on the left due to the absence of Tierney.

 

Our lack of creativity was apparent for all to see, McGinn rarely got beyond the striker, first half Christie apart from one decent run, was off the boil and Dykes was well out of his depth. McTominey, who I defended quite strongly yesterday to another poster was anonymous and occasionally endangered the defence with sloppy play. 

 

I wish the coach would just say F@£$ it and throw caution to the wind. Play Adams from the start, get the young lad Gilmour on the park and see if he has what it takes, what do we have to lose. England next, no hiding places, get rid of the deadwood now and try and at least get a little bit of pride back through a decent performance against me the old enemy. This one takes care of itself, it's essentially a derby, form goes out the window. Bit of a rant but glad it's off my chest.  

[Don Dan]

25 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

Think I got her email as well mate, make sure you don’t click the links

🤣🤣

[stirlo]

It's amazing how people's perception of a game can be so different. I've heard quite a few pundits say that Scotland played reasonably well today and there are quite a few positive comments on here. But even leaving the defending for the goals aside, I thought Scotland lost the midfield battle for most of that game. They were just giving the ball away far too cheaply and not winning enough second balls. Yes, Scotland created a few chances, but all in all a 2-0 defeat is pretty much what they deserved IMO.  

[Ainsley Harriott]

Why are the Media protecting Marshall like they are? Seaman got ruined when he did the same thing

[1971fozzy]

An absolute clusterfek from Marshall

horrendous comedy

[56anawthat]

If I hear the word ‘clinical’ again there might be a brick going through the tele…

[graygo]

32 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Eloquently put and 100% right. Roxburgh and Brown were the same - jobs for the boys. It got us nowhere. The only coach who tried to switch things up, partly because he had to because the previous managers just stuck with the same players who then got too old, was Bertie Vogts who got pilloried in the press for it.

 

Leaving the likes of Gordon and Adams on the bench was criminal. ODonnell has never looked anything close to an international player. And someone like Fraser would have pepped up the attack instead of so many central midfielders. The Marshall positioning thing is baffling but either way the buck stops with Clarke for the tactics and/or picking Marshall in the first place. I refuse to believe Marshall was told to be so far up the park though. If so, get Clarke binned as soon as we're out.

 

That'll be the Roxburgh and Brown who regularly qualified for major tournaments and Vogts who didn't.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Awbdy Oot

[alwaysthereinspirit]

So Gordon against England again it is then.

 

[Japan Jambo]

1 minute ago, stirlo said:

It's amazing how people's perception of a game can be so different. I've heard quite a few pundits say that Scotland played reasonably well today and there are quite a few positive comments on here. But even leaving the defending for the goals aside, I thought Scotland lost the midfield battle for most of that game. They were just giving the ball away far too cheaply and not winning enough second balls. Yes, Scotland created a few chances, but all in all a 2-0 defeat is pretty much what they deserved IMO.  

 

Unfortunately I didn't see the whole game but even in the opening period where we had the best of it there were a lot of stray passes. I felt the contrast in quality with the other games I've watched was quite marked.

 

Cut to the studio and the blue tinted specs, there was some serious turd polishing going on. Whether they truly believed this or are just trying to maintain interest so the last two games aren't seen as dead rubbers depends on your perspective.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, stirlo said:

It's amazing how people's perception of a game can be so different. I've heard quite a few pundits say that Scotland played reasonably well today and there are quite a few positive comments on here. But even leaving the defending for the goals aside, I thought Scotland lost the midfield battle for most of that game. They were just giving the ball away far too cheaply and not winning enough second balls. Yes, Scotland created a few chances, but all in all a 2-0 defeat is pretty much what they deserved IMO.  

How I seen it as well. Thought McGinn didn’t offer anything required for that role. Armstrong likewise.

2-0 was just about right.

 

 

 

[graygo]

Well if Gordon gets the nod for Friday we can look forward to losing a few goals with him getting beat at his near post, like his last game for Scotland.

[Last Laff]

8 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Why are the Media protecting Marshall like they are? Seaman got ruined when he did the same thing

Seaman had previous and the English media are rotten.  He was lopped further out by Nyiam in a final.  

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

So Gordon against England again it is then.

 

I don’t think there’s any chance of that.   Should be but Marshall is clearly Clark’s no.1 and actually had a good game.  His positioning for the 2nd goal was ridiculous but suspect he was supposed to be there and Robertson suggested that in his interview.  

[Last Laff]

1 minute ago, Awbdy Oot said:

Well if Gordon gets the nod for Friday we can look forward to losing a few goals with him getting beat at his near post, like his last game for Scotland.

No chance I would hope Craig plays on Friday.  Going to get destroyed. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

So Gordon against England again it is then.

 

 

No keep Marshall they'll be up to score a bucket load and Craig doesn't deserve to be thrown to the wolves. 

[Debut 4]

31 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Eloquently put and 100% right. Roxburgh and Brown were the same - jobs for the boys. It got us nowhere. The only coach who tried to switch things up, partly because he had to because the previous managers just stuck with the same players who then got too old, was Bertie Vogts who got pilloried in the press for it.

 

Leaving the likes of Gordon and Adams on the bench was criminal. ODonnell has never looked anything close to an international player. And someone like Fraser would have pepped up the attack instead of so many central midfielders. The Marshall positioning thing is baffling but either way the buck stops with Clarke for the tactics and/or picking Marshall in the first place. I refuse to believe Marshall was told to be so far up the park though. If so, get Clarke binned as soon as we're out.

True. They never had a vision. No attempt to keep a flow of young players coming through, giving them experience and a taste. See if they sink or swim. 
 

Always going for the safe bets. The old guard always picked to make sure their reputation stays intact.   
 

Here we are. 23 years later getting into a tournament through the back door.  Why not play Gilmour? Use this tournament to blood him. And as pointed out by many, why didn’t he play his best attacker?

 

Over the years many of the bigger countries have a couple of prospects who get into the squad for experience and game time when appropriate. All with a view to them being comfortable in that arena when the time comes for them to be the main players. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

5 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

So Gordon against England again it is then.

 

Gordon should have started today, Marshall has barely played for his club. Gilmour and Adams should also have started 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

Well if Gordon gets the nod for Friday we can look forward to losing a few goals with him getting beat at his near post, like his last game for Scotland.

That’s the spirit, get right behind the only Jambo in the squad.  As I just said though, can’t see Clark picking him, he’s too loyal to the players that got him there. 
 

And Gordon’s last game was against the Netherlands - both goals at the far post so no idea what you’re talking about.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Gordon should have started today, Marshall has barely played for his club. Gilmour and Adams should also have started 

Yeah and no, Marshall earned his starting place after getting us there in the first place for me.

 

Marshall will be gutted, but really our problem is lacking a goalscorer. Dykes is effective in his way but he's becoming a bit Nade like for Scotland.

 

It's a shame we could easily have won that today with a better strike force on the pitch

[Kiwidoug]

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

I haven't seen it but that is good to hear

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Yeah and no, Marshall earned his starting place after getting us there in the first place for me

It's not a social outing. Play the best players and that doesn't include Marshall. Were meant to be professional.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

Marshall kept the score down today, had a few good saves. Would be good to know whether his  positioning on the 2nd goal was down to him or tactics.   If it was him then he’s cost us 3 goals in his last few games.  If he was supposed to be that high up the pitch then there’s no danger he’ll get dropped.  

[sadj]

Right when the **** did i miss these amazing saves that Marshall made the day? 

[jambo_74]

6 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

Jim McLean style?

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Marshall kept the score down today, had a few good saves. Would be good to know whether his  positioning on the 2nd goal was down to him or tactics.   If it was him then he’s cost us 3 goals in his last few games.  If he was supposed to be that high up the pitch then there’s no danger he’ll get dropped.  

**** off kept the score down… made a couple saves he should have. Their keeper made saves to stop us scoring. Ours went for a Kilmarnock Pie at HT

[The Treasurer]

Just now, sadj said:

Right when the **** did i miss these amazing saves that Marshall made the day? 

He made two or three saves that you would expect an international goalkeeper to make

[sadj]

15 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Gordon should have started today, Marshall has barely played for his club. Gilmour and Adams should also have started 

 

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah and no, Marshall earned his starting place after getting us there in the first place for me.

 

Marshall will be gutted, but really our problem is lacking a goalscorer. Dykes is effective in his way but he's becoming a bit Nade like for Scotland.

 

It's a shame we could easily have won that today with a better strike force on the pitch

I think Gordon should have started too. O’Donnell shouldn’t have. 

[graygo]

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s the spirit, get right behind the only Jambo in the squad.  As I just said though, can’t see Clark picking him, he’s too loyal to the players that got him there. 
 

And Gordon’s last game was against the Netherlands - both goals at the far post so no idea what you’re talking about.

 

When it comes to Scotland the club they play for is irrelevant. You're right about it not being his near post though, I should have said beaten at the side he is supposed to be covering.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, The Treasurer said:

He made two or three saves that you would expect an international goalkeeper to make

Thats what i thought. Say international though just a decent keeper would make

[sadj]

Just now, Awbdy Oot said:

 

When it comes to Scotland the club they play for is irrelevant. You're right about it not being his near post though, I should have said beaten at the side he is supposed to be covering.

Hobo 😝

[The Treasurer]

Just now, sadj said:

Thats what i thought. Say international though just a decent keeper would make

You're right

[Muppetboy]

33 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Why are the Media protecting Marshall like they are? Seaman got ruined when he did the same thing

Said this in an earlier post. Difference is the English press are ruthless and thrive on calamities like these. Maybe we should too

[kingantti1874]

15 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

Attacked the interviewer for suggesting Adam’s > Dykes - said hindsight a wonderful thing.

 

Na not really Steve you ****ing weapon. Every ***** in the country knows Adam’s > Dykes.. you section was shit, you made the same mistake as every failed Scotland manager before you 

[upgotheheads]

3 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

I think Gordon should have started too. O’Donnell shouldn’t have. 

 

If Gordon doesn't start on Friday I will be very surprised. I expected him to start today because he's a better goalie but given that Marshall was the man in possession it's understandable. Gordon would have got a hand on the first and wouldn't have been so far up the park for the second.

Marshall was flat footed at the first goal, was to the left of centre,  and didn't move his feet, he was beaten all ends up.

[colinmaroon]

2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Going to stick up for Marshall.

He had very decent game.

I'm not in the clamour to get CG in for Friday, i'll happily wait for the Croatia match for him.

 

Not excusing DM for the 2nd goal in any way though. Nobody seems to be questioning Cooper's positition either.

 

 

Frank Haffey Friday!

 

 

[Taffin]

All for sentiment and the guys copping flak did a marvellous job to get us there so don't want to single them out. That goes for Clarke too 

 

But there was a better team available with the players on the bench. It's 23 years since we were at a major tournament, you play your best team. Clarke has to shoulder a bit of the blame for today. I didn't catch much of the match but I've seen the goals and listened to large chunks so I won't criticise too much as I'm not in a position to judge fully 

[Fozzyonthefence]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

If Gordon doesn't start on Friday I will be very surprised. I expected him to start today because he's a better goalie but given that Marshall was the man in possession it's understandable. Gordon would have got a hand on the first and wouldn't have been so far up the park for the second.

Marshall was flat footed at the first goal, was to the left of centre,  and didn't move his feet, he was beaten all ends up.

We all know Gordon is a better keeper than Marshall but that’s ridiculous to blame him for the first goal.  It was a brilliant header right in the corner and I don’t think Gordon would’ve saved it, would’ve been save of the season if he did. 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

If Gordon doesn't start on Friday I will be very surprised. I expected him to start today because he's a better goalie but given that Marshall was the man in possession it's understandable. Gordon would have got a hand on the first and wouldn't have been so far up the park for the second.

Marshall was flat footed at the first goal, was to the left of centre,  and didn't move his feet, he was beaten all ends up.

 

I doubt that very much, he's good but not that good.

[RobNox]

Wasn't a great performance, but we made enough clear chances to have won it if our finishing had been better, and our goalie hadn't been so far up the pitch for their second goal.  Sadly, I don't see us getting too many chances in the remaining games, and any chances we do get, we really need to put away.  Also, I think England will definitely punish us much more than the Czechs did if we allow them the same opportunities.

 

This was our chance to open the tournament with a win and put us in a position where we could be more cautious in the remaining games, knowing that even 3 points might be enough to qualify in 3rd place, and picking up just 1 more point would almost certainly be enough.

 

Instead, we opted for an overly cautious approach in our most winnable game, and after that backfired, we've given ourselves a mountain to climb.  I'm with a few others on here, I'd rather we put in some of the younger talent and have a go at England and Croatia.  I'd rather see us go down fighting than exit the tournament with a whimper, as has often been the case.

[upgotheheads]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We all know Gordon is a better keeper than Marshall but that’s ridiculous to blame him for the first goal.  It was a brilliant header right in the corner and I don’t think Gordon would’ve saved it, would’ve been save of the season if he did. 

 

I'm not sure he would have saved it either, as I said, he would have got a hand on it imo. Marshall was static as the ball came in and as far as I could see he didn't move his feet at all. A good goalies first weapon is positioning and movement. Marshall didn't get within three feet of it.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

I doubt that very much, he's good but not that good.

Yeah im not convinced about that but get what the poster is saying. Iv agreed with Michael Stewart two or three times today so hes seeing the same things I am its apocalypse time boys…. 

[glynnlondon]

42 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Seaman had previous and the English media are rotten.  He was lopped further out by Nyiam in a final.  

Wearing his sheriff shirt arf

[Pilmuir]

Had high hopes today. Things started well with the best rendition of Flower of Scotland from the national football team for many a year. But downhill after that. Too many missed chances the main problem. 

 

Our luck has to change sometime and hopefully on Friday.

[henryheart]

52 minutes ago, stirlo said:

It's amazing how people's perception of a game can be so different. I've heard quite a few pundits say that Scotland played reasonably well today and there are quite a few positive comments on here. But even leaving the defending for the goals aside, I thought Scotland lost the midfield battle for most of that game. They were just giving the ball away far too cheaply and not winning enough second balls. Yes, Scotland created a few chances, but all in all a 2-0 defeat is pretty much what they deserved IMO.  

 

Agreed. Of all the teams that have played so far, I rank Scotland alongside North Macedonia as the least effective, but it is hardly surprising as the players are not in the same league as, say in the World Cups of 1974, 1978 and 1982 and we did nothing then. There have been unrealistic expectations and, lets be honest, if this was a Hearts performance then people on here would be going mad with rage. 

[John Findlay]

59 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Probably on the blower to Frank Haffey to see if he has a spare room.

Younger generation look up Wembley start of the 60s, on second thoughts dont bother or you will be predicting that score for Friday night.

[Satsumo]

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Why is every question Steven Thompson asks a rhetorical one? 

He seemed to be talking really slow pre match.

 

Like he was making sure a UK wide audience could understand him.

 

What a shambles of a day all round.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

43 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

 

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We all know Gordon is a better keeper than Marshall but that’s ridiculous to blame him for the first goal.  It was a brilliant header right in the corner and I don’t think Gordon would’ve saved it, would’ve been save of the season if he did. 

Gordon is the most likely Scottish keeper to make “save of the season” though... Somebody has to...

 

Personally whilst it was a great header I can see Gordon saving that.

 

Also - because of his dickie knee he wouldn’t have been so far out for the second. I think he’d have been just outside the box but I am prepared to be corrected by anyone that has watched him live recently.

[151]

22 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Attacked the interviewer for suggesting Adam’s > Dykes - said hindsight a wonderful thing.

 

Na not really Steve you ****ing weapon. Every ***** in the country knows Adam’s > Dykes.. you section was shit, you made the same mistake as every failed Scotland manager before you 

 

Dykes is 100% up there as one of the worst players I've ever had the discomfort of watching. No idea how or why he got called up for Scotland and on what basis but seems to be a recurring theme right through the side. Couldn't tell you who Hendry plays for, last I saw his name im sure he was at Dundee on loan from Celtic few seasons ago. Dykes i remember being at Livingston and fair enough heard the commentator say he plays for QPR now, wouldn't have known otherwise. O'Donnell is never ever international quality. Ever. And everyone on social media going on about how strong a bench we have i've never been convinced by the likes of Ryan Fraser but each to their own. 

 

We aren't very good unfortunately. The problem I think is when you put qualification on such a pedestal you lose focus on what you qualified for. It's almost like the work was done and it was a case of just going out and seeing what happened.