*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[Boab]

9 hours ago, Clerry Jambo said:

For those knocking the 2nd goal ffs it was a great goal. Dark blue jersey it would have been a worldly. Yes feck knows what Marshall was doing but let’s not knock the strike

Knocking that dig is beyond ridiculous.

Marshall is culpable all day long but that was a top class piece of skill from their forward. Top drawer.

[Boab]

For you eternal optimists out there, you can get 36.5/1 on Scotland winning their next two matches. 
👍

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

Knocking that dig is beyond ridiculous.

Marshall is culpable all day long but that was a top class piece of skill from their forward. Top drawer.

 

Yes it was. Not sure how far a keeper has to be off their line for him to try it but they would need to be on their line to save it.

[Thomaso]

55 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

I've not mentioned the penalty save once, Marshall would have played yesterday regardless of that. 

I don’t think so.

[132goals1958]

21 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Team v England

 

                 Gordon

 

      Hendry Cooper Tiernay 

 

Forrest                         Robertson

 

               McTominay

 

     McGinn              Armstrong 

 

         Evans         Fraser

 

Evans above I take it you mean Adams

[graygo]

Just now, Thomaso said:

I don’t think so.

 

So why did he play in that game then? He's Scotland's first pick keeper whether we think he should be or not 

[hmfc_liam06]

5 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just watched the 1st half.  While I accept that the ref knows the rules far better than me, when McTominay charged into the the box just before half time and was blocked, it looked like a stick-on penalty to me.

 

Not a penalty for me. Not sure where the Czech defender can go.

 

Thought the ref had a superb game to be honest.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

So why did he play in that game then? He's Scotland's first pick keeper whether we think he should be or not 

You only remain a first choice player if you are on form. Marshall has not been on form for his club and hasn’t been playing regularly. Gordon has been on form and in my opinion he should have been chosen however Clarke went with Marshall simply because his penalty save got us there in the first place!

[Jambof3tornado]

9 hours ago, Spellczech said:

TBF to Hendry, he's watched the players in front of him miss quite a few chances, and minutes ago come closest to scoring himself. He had a rush of blood to the head and saw the headlines before they were written...It was a naive error but we have to remember that he's not really ready for international football himself - I mean look at his experience so far...being on Celtic's books and loaned back to Dundee after being rubbish for Celtic then a good season in Belgium? (AFAIK...and I know nothing about the Belgian league, but do Belgium have many players who play in Belgium?). He made an error, but if Marshall had been 10 yards further back it probably wouldn't have mattered

Its a lesson learned for Hendry for sure but no way was he scoring from where he was. Decision making all round was poor and the occasion did get to us.

[jack D and coke]

11 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The tournament has gone for Scotland. This was the must not lose game and in true Scotland fashion ....

Yeah I agree it’s gone already. We had a chance of a positive start and Clarke made a serious of poor choices. I think I’ll be happy if we just don’t get a couple of scuddings now. He won’t drop Marshall imo and probably won’t play an attacking formation so we’ll immediately hand the impetus to England and look to limit damage. 
Im actually fearing it I’ll be honest. Real through the cracks in the fingers viewing. 
 

[Jambof3tornado]

11 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Not a penalty for me. Not sure where the Czech defender can go.

 

Thought the ref had a superb game to be honest.

Yup. The ref quickly sussed mcginn and his keenness to fall after shoving his arse into opponents which is a big part of his game and stopped him being as useful for us.

[Worthing Jambo]

17 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Yes it was. Not sure how far a keeper has to be off their line for him to try it but they would need to be on their line to save it.

The Czech striker pre-planned it.

He said after the game that he knew Marshall had a tendency to come a fair distance off his line.

When the opportunity arose he just had a quick glance to confirm Marshall’s position.

[Des Lynam]

17 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Not a penalty for me. Not sure where the Czech defender can go.

 

Thought the ref had a superb game to be honest.

I agree. 
 

We just weren’t good enough. 

[Beni]

22 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Yes it was. Not sure how far a keeper has to be off their line for him to try it but they would need to be on their line to save it.

 

A great strike, but Marshall could have been on the edge of his box, and still covered a ball over the top. He didn't even turn tail and run as soon as the block was made. That split second delay was the difference between being a bit too far forward, and being an internet meme.

[graygo]

30 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

You only remain a first choice player if you are on form. Marshall has not been on form for his club and hasn’t been playing regularly. Gordon has been on form and in my opinion he should have been chosen however Clarke went with Marshall simply because his penalty save got us there in the first place!

 

I would have played Gordon the last 6 games, Clark didn't so was never going to put him in yesterday, it wasn't some sort of reward for saving a penalty though.

[graygo]

19 minutes ago, Worthing Jambo said:

The Czech striker pre-planned it.

He said after the game that he knew Marshall had a tendency to come a fair distance off his line.

When the opportunity arose he just had a quick glance to confirm Marshall’s position.

 

Yes, I heard that interview. It was still a one in a hundred strike though.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

3 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

A great strike, but Marshall could have been on the edge of his box, and still covered a ball over the top. He didn't even turn tail and run as soon as the block was made. That split second delay was the difference between being a bit too far forward, and being an internet meme.

Yep. The definition of no mans land.
 

As for the strike folk are acting surprised that the boy pre-planned it. For me I could see from the second the ball left his foot it was in, that execution, he had been practicing that. A lesson in ruthless punishment of a known weakness in your opponent. It really is to be honest up there with the best ever euros goals, because it was not opportunistic it was pre meditated. Ruthless. Marshall never had any chance of stopping it. Ultimately it’s just a weakness that was there in himself. The only way that goal doesn’t get scored, is if another keeper was selected. If Marshall’s playing, that goal + the keeper is in the back of the net,  10 times out of 10. 
 

Now that things are settling I wasn’t that fussed if Marshall was to play again but now, I can’t see any choice but to play Gordon against England. Its a lost cause if Marshall is playing IMO 

 

[Beni]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Marshall never had any chance of stopping it. 

 

Just to reply to this bit.

I saw a clip of Wayne Rooney talking about scoring from his own half, and the bit about the keeper making himself look silly equally applies to Marshall.

 

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

10 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

To hit a moving ball just under the bar from 50 yards is a combination of great technique and a bit of luck. He could probably hit that same shot another 10 times and not get the technique or the luck good enough to score. For a must win game though I agree, it was a poor team selection with zero pace and zero creativity in it. Add that to some anonymous performances from our big players like McGinn and Armstrong and MCTominay.

Sorry but a goal is a large target, Smaller targets at much greater distances are hit in other sports and if a professional player can't score from there then it's poor. Had a Scotland player missed that, you would be furious.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Sorry but a goal is a large target, Smaller targets at much greater distances are hit in other sports and if a professional player can't score from there then it's poor. Had a Scotland player missed that, you would be furious.

Tbf, I was furious when Dykes missed from six yards !

[iantjambo]

I think we’ll have a great chance of beating England if we play David Marshall in goal instead of midfield.

[graygo]

As an aside anyone else a wee bit miffed that there's only 2 games on today, no 2 o'clock game. ☹️

[A_A wehatethehibs]

10 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

To hit a moving ball just under the bar from 50 yards is a combination of great technique and a bit of luck. He could probably hit that same shot another 10 times and not get the technique or the luck good enough to score. For a must win game though I agree, it was a poor team selection with zero pace and zero creativity in it. Add that to some anonymous performances from our big players like McGinn and Armstrong and MCTominay.

Watch it again. That boy is no average Scot, that’s what a 20m Bundesliga striker looks like. He has practiced that in training and knows what he’s doing before the ball falls to him.

 

10 times out of 10, he drops that bomb right on the target. 
 

We as Scottish fans are just too used to watching pub standard strikers so the first thought is, that was a lucky strike. It wasn’t.

[Homme]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Watch it again. That boy is no average Scot, that’s what a 20m Bundesliga striker looks like. He has practiced that in training and knows what he’s doing before the ball falls to him.

 

10 times out of 10, he drops that bomb right on the target. 
 

We as Scottish fans are just too used to watching pub standard strikers so the first thought is, that was a lucky strike. It wasn’t.

 

Good post. It was a terrific strike from a top player.

[JimmyCant]

25 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Sorry but a goal is a large target, Smaller targets at much greater distances are hit in other sports and if a professional player can't score from there then it's poor. Had a Scotland player missed that, you would be furious.

Aye you see players hitting the target from 50 yards week in week out right enough

[iantjambo]

14 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

As an aside anyone else a wee bit miffed that there's only 2 games on today, no 2 o'clock game. ☹️

Final 2 games of the first round of matches.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Homme said:

 

Good post. It was a terrific strike from a top player.

Its the big thing we lack, always gives you a chance in the internationals. No matter how average the rest of the team are, if you’ve got a good quality £10-20m 6ft striker, you can win any international game. Because the defensive unit of any international team, is always weaker than defensive units at club level. Some hope for Che Adam’s though athletically at least, definitely got the engine and power required. Don’t know how lethal he is tho. Crazed lunacy to select Dykes ahead of him 

[chuck berrys hairline]

Is Marshall still on the bus to Yoker? Prick! Should be hung drawn and quartered let the nation down badly. Schicks a Bundesliga striker only something  we could dream of having, ofcourse he meant it.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Aye you see players hitting the target from 50 yards week in week out right enough

Its rarely tried because most keepers aren’t stupid enough to leave that door open 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Worthing Jambo said:

The Czech striker pre-planned it.

He said after the game that he knew Marshall had a tendency to come a fair distance off his line.

When the opportunity arose he just had a quick glance to confirm Marshall’s position.

 

Trying to be objective - most of us would not have thought about that. Shows the job a decent video/tactics analyst can do.

[Byyy The Light]

It wasn't even the first time in the match they attempted it.  They had had a go earlier in the match so its clearly something they'd identified

[Mysterion]

Had time to get over the game yesterday. My thoughts (and if you don't agree that's ok).... 

 

Clarke could have changed the formation but didn't - he went for consistency and the "swap player X in for player Y" method that many managers do at the top level. Maybe he could have changed it but looking at the overall game/chances we had several opportunities - could have taken the lead/equalised. 

 

As the game progressed after the 2nd it was difficult to get back into the game however it's wrong to suggest we were rank rotten, we came up against a goalkeeper having a phenomenal game whilst our own went walkabout. 

 

It's a tough one to take - but the disappointment is reflective of the progress the squad has made. 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Mysterion

[Maroon Sailor]

2 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I've not read through the thread but I wouldn't imagine anyone is knocking what the Czech player did in terms of scoring the goal, he hit it perfectly and deserved the reward he got. But truth is he was only given the opportunity to score due to the positioning of our goalkeeper.

 

When watching it live on TV my initial thought was why is he trying a shot from so far out, but it was only when you seen the replay from behind the goa that it became apparent just how far out of his own penalty area Marshall was. There was no need, never any need for a goalkeeper to be standing a few yards short of the halfway line, there are 10 outfield players, and scope to place even just one around that area if needed.

 

If that shot hadn't went in we'll never know how the game would have finished results wise, indeed after the goal Marshall stopped 3 attempts which could have created a final score of 0-5. To me things were determined right from the second the team was announced, in a game which, if we are honest, must have looked the most likely that we could win, and if we had it would have meant only 1 point would have been needed from the remaining two games.

 

When you see the side anounced has 5 defensive players, no wingers and only one striker it becomes obvious from outset the options available to actually create and score goals and win have been reduced massively, and that was the way it panned out. Our only hope now is that the Czech Republic can defeat Croatia, and create a situation where the final game at Hampden between Scotland and Croatia becomes a play off for third place in the group.

 

3 points might not be enough as our goal difference could be severely dented by the Croatia game.

 

Only hope in that scenario would be for two 3rd place teams to finish on 2 points but that is highly unlikely.

 

Draw at Wembley and beat Croatia puts it to bed though ......🤣

[Malinga the Swinga]

13 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Aye you see players hitting the target from 50 yards week in week out right enough

Of course you don't.The reason for that is the keeper would save it easily. The reason they would save it is because they wouldn't be standing day dreaming over 40 yards from their goal.

Decent strike from guy but only made possible due to horrendous play by Marshall.

[Maroon Sailor]

Has anybody from the Scotland camp explained why Marshall was standing near the centre circle on 52 minutes ?

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Had time to get over the game yesterday. My thoughts (and if you don't agree that's ok).... 

 

Clarke could have changed the formation but didn't - he went for consistency and the "swap player X in for player Y" method that many managers do at the top level. Maybe he could have changed it but looking at the overall game/chances we had several opportunities - could have taken the lead/equalised. 

 

As the game progressed after the 2nd it was difficult to get back into the game however it's wrong to suggest we were rank rotten, we came up against a goalkeeper having a phenomenal game whilst our own went walkabout. 

 

It's a tough one to take - but the disappointment is reflective of the progress the squad has made. 

 

What progress have we made. In last 6 competitive games, we have won 1 match in 90 minutes, and that was at home against Faroes. We lost last 2 Nations league games, we required 2 points to win group and blew play off place for 2022 world cup, and we drew against Israel and Austria in world cup qualifiers, Marshall being culpable for goals in each of them. We then got pumped yesterday with Marshall again at fault.

Manager and players lost focus after beating Serbia on pens and decided that they had succeeded. They put partying ahead of driving on and getting results. Players on the pish when we had game few days later to win Nations cup group. Unforgivable and unprofessional but glossed over as party in full swing.

We haven't really improved, we just got lucky with penalty shootouts.

In retrospect, if we had lost to Israel, manager might have been out and players like Hanley, O'Donnell and Marshall wouldn't have been seen again.

We might even have made better start at qualification for world cup.

[Malinga the Swinga]

15 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Has anybody from the Scotland camp explained why Marshall was standing near the centre circle on 52 minutes ?

Robertson made some excuses about him being there for ball over the top. Trying to cover for Marshall's pish poor concentration levels.

[graygo]

40 minutes ago, iantjambo said:

Final 2 games of the first round of matches.

 

I know, evened out by there only being one game on opening night. Still getting mild withdrawal symptoms though. ☹️

[graygo]

32 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Trying to be objective - most of us would not have thought about that. Shows the job a decent video/tactics analyst can do.

 

It wasn't planned before the game, he noted Marshall being out his area during the match. At least that's my take on it, nothing to do with video/tactics analysis.

[Boab]

4 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

What progress have we made. In last 6 competitive games, we have won 1 match in 90 minutes, and that was at home against Faroes. We lost last 2 Nations league games, we required 2 points to win group and blew play off place for 2022 world cup, and we drew against Israel and Austria in world cup qualifiers, Marshall being culpable for goals in each of them. We then got pumped yesterday with Marshall again at fault.

Manager and players lost focus after beating Serbia on pens and decided that they had succeeded. They put partying ahead of driving on and getting results. Players on the pish when we had game few days later to win Nations cup group. Unforgivable and unprofessional but glossed over as party in full swing.

We haven't really improved, we just got lucky with penalty shootouts.

In retrospect, if we had lost to Israel, manager might have been out and players like Hanley, O'Donnell and Marshall wouldn't have been seen again.

We might even have made better start at qualification for world cup.

I think there was understandable excitement that we had qualified after so long but it got a bit daft with some suggesting we’d get through the groups. 
Only 8 teams go out at the group stage and if we’re not one of them I’ll be amazed.

[graygo]

32 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

It wasn't even the first time in the match they attempted it.  They had had a go earlier in the match so its clearly something they'd identified

 

It's clear they identified it, it's not clear they identified it before the game. Have you ever noticed it before?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Robertson made some excuses about him being there for ball over the top. Trying to cover for Marshall's pish poor concentration levels.

I mean you expect that from a team mate / captain. Not going to throw him under the bus. I imagine the conversation in the dressing room would’ve been quite different. And suspect a bit more responsibility placed on Hendry than Marshall tbh. The whole team would know the risk on the counter if they gave possesion away with the CBs pushed up, Hendry had seen the headlines after he’d hit the bar the minute before, wanted another go. 

 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Yes, I heard that interview. It was still a one in a hundred strike though.

It looked great but I think decent professional footballers will hit the target quite often when faced with an open goal. The ball rolled perfectly for him as well

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I mean you expect that from a team mate / captain. Not going to throw him under the bus. I imagine the conversation in the dressing room would’ve been quite different. And suspect a bit more responsibility placed on Hendry than Marshall tbh. The whole team would know the risk on the counter if they gave possesion away with the CBs pushed up, Hendry had seen the headlines after he’d hit the bar the minute before, wanted another go. 

 

Nope, not having that. Hendry could have passed ball to O'Donnell but regardless, the blame is entirely on Marshall and manager.

Marshall for his positioning, his lack of awareness, his lack of speed and his lack of ability. He's now cost goals in three competitive games in a row.

Manager for continuing to pick him, based on some misguided loyalty.

[Byyy The Light]

8 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It's clear they identified it, it's not clear they identified it before the game. Have you ever noticed it before?

 

Was talking about in the game.  No idea if they discussed it before the game or not.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Nope, not having that. Hendry could have passed ball to O'Donnell but regardless, the blame is entirely on Marshall and manager.

Marshall for his positioning, his lack of awareness, his lack of speed and his lack of ability. He's now cost goals in three competitive games in a row.

Manager for continuing to pick him, based on some misguided loyalty.

Hendry knew the risk and he knew how important it was to take special care of possession when we pushed the team up, folk want attacking football, that’s what it looks like, you push the whole team up and it is very risky if you give the ball away. The shot was simply not on, there was no gap, the defender was blocking Hendrys shot on goal. I would apportion the on-field blame equally between him and Marshall.

[Mysterion]

19 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It wasn't planned before the game, he noted Marshall being out his area during the match. At least that's my take on it, nothing to do with video/tactics analysis.

Refer back to the comment from another poster that conflicts with this suggesting that they knew Marshall often moved off his line. 

 

2 hours ago, Worthing Jambo said:

The Czech striker pre-planned it.

He said after the game that he knew Marshall had a tendency to come a fair distance off his line.

When the opportunity arose he just had a quick glance to confirm Marshall’s position.

 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

Good post. We've been awful since we won in Serbia. 

 

28 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

What progress have we made. In last 6 competitive games, we have won 1 match in 90 minutes, and that was at home against Faroes. We lost last 2 Nations league games, we required 2 points to win group and blew play off place for 2022 world cup, and we drew against Israel and Austria in world cup qualifiers, Marshall being culpable for goals in each of them. We then got pumped yesterday with Marshall again at fault.

Manager and players lost focus after beating Serbia on pens and decided that they had succeeded. They put partying ahead of driving on and getting results. Players on the pish when we had game few days later to win Nations cup group. Unforgivable and unprofessional but glossed over as party in full swing.

We haven't really improved, we just got lucky with penalty shootouts.

In retrospect, if we had lost to Israel, manager might have been out and players like Hanley, O'Donnell and Marshall wouldn't have been seen again.

We might even have made better start at qualification for world cup.

It’s hard to disagree with any of that. 

[TheBigO]

18 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Have a look again there’s one player in the box. Doing the same old crap saw us create little and fail to score. 

TBF you can't be in the box or you'd be offside here.  We've got 7 players ahead of the ball here - if the ball goes wide, we have 5 players in position to attack a cross.  Can't really argue with that.

 

At this point in the second half, we were causing them a lot of problems.  It was a bit like the 5 mins previous to their first goal, you could feel it coming - that freak, calamitous, wonder goal was a real killer.

 

The biggest thing all game for me was O'Donnell and McGinn, one shouldn't be playing and the other can only play high up the pitch.  Clarke got both decisions wrong.  Forrest out wide right, McGinn and one other up around Adams and a solid midfield base of 2 (McTom and McGregor or Turnbul) was the way to go here.  It should be 343 but we played it 541 to start with and handed them impetus 

[TheBigO]

Gordon

Hendry Hanley Tierney

Forrest McTominay Gilmour Robertson

McGinn Fraser

Adams

 

Not sure about Gilmour, could swap him out, but this should be the shape and McGinn and Fraser need to be brave and try to keep high up the pitch.  Don't let their full backs have run of the pitch, and make their CHs work.  Defence is their weak point, especially the fact they think they're world beaters, so pressure them high, force mistakes and long balls.

 

No chance this is the team - apart from anything, he'll play Marshall.  Also no chance he plays a winger as RWB.  Forrest has the workrate and intelligence to play this though imo.