*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

If Gordon doesn't start on Friday I will be very surprised. I expected him to start today because he's a better goalie but given that Marshall was the man in possession it's understandable. Gordon would have got a hand on the first and wouldn't have been so far up the park for the second.

Marshall was flat footed at the first goal, was to the left of centre,  and didn't move his feet, he was beaten all ends up.

We get money if Gordon plays don't we?

[theshed]

1 hour ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

So Gordon against England again it is then.

 

Id rather he didn’t play as he’s going to be busy 

[Central Belt 1874]

16 minutes ago, RobNox said:

Wasn't a great performance, but we made enough clear chances to have won it if our finishing had been better, and our goalie hadn't been so far up the pitch for their second goal.  Sadly, I don't see us getting too many chances in the remaining games, and any chances we do get, we really need to put away.  Also, I think England will definitely punish us much more than the Czechs did if we allow them the same opportunities.

 

This was our chance to open the tournament with a win and put us in a position where we could be more cautious in the remaining games, knowing that even 3 points might be enough to qualify in 3rd place, and picking up just 1 more point would almost certainly be enough.

 

Instead, we opted for an overly cautious approach in our most winnable game, and after that backfired, we've given ourselves a mountain to climb.  I'm with a few others on here, I'd rather we put in some of the younger talent and have a go at England and Croatia.  I'd rather see us go down fighting than exit the tournament with a whimper, as has often been the case.

 

I'm of the same opinion, and so are all of the people I have spoken to this evening about the game. 

 

In the simplest of terms, Clarke made the same  mistake as every other Scotland manager of the last 25 years. Too cautious, not aware of his best team and completely fails to introduce youth talent at the correct stage. 

 

 

[MrBones]

I thought we played quite well and their goal lead a charmed life ┐( ∵ )┌

[Jambos_1874]

I thought we were decent today. The team worked hard and we actually created a few chances, which is rare for any Scotland team. I also thought the team selection and tactics were generally fine too, but ultimately we didn't take our chances and the Czech Republic had just that bit more quality than us. Robertson put in a great shift and lead by example. Unfortunately I think that was realistically our only winnable game but I'll hope for a miracle against Engerland.

[Spellczech]

51 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

We'll see. Personally I think it is a no-brainer whether to play the guy who has had another excellent season, is Scotland Roll of Honour, made the best ever save in the Premiership and has tonne of CL experience over the guy who is struggling to hold down a place in the Championship and has just been utterly humiliated internationally...

 

I think Clarke will show loyalty/sentimentality...

[Savage Vince]

Feel sorry for Marshall. Tough journey to go from experiencing the proudest moment of your career to knowing you're going to be forever remembered in a meme in the space of two hours. 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

Feel sorry for Marshall. Tough journey to go from experiencing the proudest moment of your career to knowing you're going to be forever remembered in a meme in the space of two hours. 

Feel sorry for players who are unlucky. That was just shite 

[RobNox]

15 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Agreed. Of all the teams that have played so far, I rank Scotland alongside North Macedonia as the least effective, but it is hardly surprising as the players are not in the same league as, say in the World Cups of 1974, 1978 and 1982 and we did nothing then. There have been unrealistic expectations and, lets be honest, if this was a Hearts performance then people on here would be going mad with rage. 

When you think back to those 3 World Cups, the quality of player at Scotland's disposal was far higher than it is nowadays.  Many of the top English sides had a handful of Scottish players, nearly half of the Leeds United team in the early 70s were Scottish - Bremner, Lorimer, Jordan, Eddie and Frank Gray, David Harvey in goals. 

 

Between 1977 and 1981, Liverpool and Nottingham Forest were European Champions 5 times between them and both sides had a few Scots in their team.  Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, the other John Robertson, Archie Gemmill, Kenny Burns, Frank Gray, John McGovern.  Even the Aston Villa side that won it in 1982 had 3 Scottish players.

 

Imagine a Scotland squad today that had 11 players who had won the Champions League in the past 6 seasons.  We'd no doubt still find a way to avoid getting out of our Group.

[gregzy2k7]

4 hours ago, Thomaso said:

So there you go - this WAS the positioning on the idiot!

However he’s the “National hero” so let’s blame Henry! 😏

Has to be Craig Gordon in goals for England, he is 10 x the keeper that marshall is, even mcshagger is about 9 x the keeper marshall is.

[Cade]

What joys to see the "Scottish Goalies" pisstakes back after all these years.

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

That'll be the Roxburgh and Brown who regularly qualified for major tournaments and Vogts who didn't.

 

Yes, the same. That's the point. They stuck with the same players who mostly became too old at the same time, leaving Vogts with a massive rebuilding job. Vogts still did infinitely better than Clarke has done in terms of producing a team that could on their day beat top sides.

 

Brown's squad for France for example. It was Dad's Army. Don't think there was a single player under 25 in the entire squad. Just from Hearts there was no Colin Cameron, Gary Naysmith and Neil McCann (only capped after moving to Rangers). Tosh McKinlay only got capped after moving to Celtic.

[John Findlay]

18 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

I'm of the same opinion, and so are all of the people I have spoken to this evening about the game. 

 

In the simplest of terms, Clarke made the same  mistake as every other Scotland manager of the last 25 years. Too cautious, not aware of his best team and completely fails to introduce youth talent at the correct stage. 

 

 

He is to me a younger version of Craig Brown.

[DETTY29]

5 hours ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Gutted. 

 

Why are we always coming up short. 

Wrong keeper and not playing Patterson and Gilmour or Adams from the start.

 

 

[DETTY29]

5 hours ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Gutted. 

 

Why are we always coming up short. 

.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by DETTY29

[Guest ToqueJambo]

41 minutes ago, RobNox said:

Wasn't a great performance, but we made enough clear chances to have won it if our finishing had been better

 

 

 

Playing our best striker from the start could have helped there.

[DETTY29]

5 hours ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Gutted. 

 

Why are we always coming up short. 

Wrong keeper and not playing Patterson and Gilmour or Adams from the start.

 

 

[DETTY29]

5 hours ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

Gutted. 

 

Why are we always coming up short. 

.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by DETTY29

[Central Belt 1874]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

He is to me a younger version of Craig Brown.

 

With his club experience, you would think Clarke would be aware of the potential positives of knowing your  best team and introducing young/inexperienced players at the right time. 

 

And also of the long lasting damage that can be done by following the paths of others, like Craig Brown. 

[RobNox]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Playing our best striker from the start could have helped there.

You're absolutely right.  We looked far more threatening as soon as Adams came on and I was actually becoming optimistic again, until that howler of a second goal really knocked any remaining wind out of our sails.

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Wrong keeper and not playing Patterson and Gilmour or Adams from the start.

 

 

Yep- At this level you need quality, players who are comfortable on the ball, can take the ball in tight areas. You need players on form, you need a threat. We did none of this. 
 

Gilmour, Adams, Paterson, Turnbull and Fraser are all better than players who started or came on.

 

Very very poor management, repeated every mistake made by his predecessors .. 

 

have to stick with the players who got us there - no you don’t when they aren’t on form or in the case of O’Donnell - not good enough

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by kingantti1874

[Jambof3tornado]

3 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Playing our best striker from the start could have helped there.

Correct.

 

Lots wrong today, shite opposition and we made them look better.

 

Easiest game we are going to have and we took F all from it.

 

Can see us coming home with 1 point from a draw in the last game.

 

Dont want Gordon in goal for England game coz it's a 3 or 4 nil every day of the week.

[maggieb]

4 hours ago, John Findlay said:

If, Scotland fail to qualify from the group, and I say if, as there are still two group games to play, after 55 years playing and watching football, I know anything can still happen, Steve Clark as the manager will be in the same company(all in my lifetime), Wullie Ormond, Ally MacLeod, JOCK STEIN, ALEX FERGUSON, Andy Roxburgh, and Craig Brown. The two names in capitals stick out like sore thumbs, bottom line is they both failed as Scotland managers, I would argue with far better players than Steve Clarke has ever had with the exception of the goalkeeping position.

I havent seen today's game yet as I had to start work at 15.15 and had to leave just after 14.00. I have recorded the game and I will watch tomorrow morning after a good night's sleep and then give a view of the performance.

Hi John , do yourself a favour and watch the highlights, O’Donnell taking his own player out when going through on goal will hurt my brain forever,it’s all been said above but ffs Marshall ahead of Gordon ? Give me strength 

[MarkDevriesScores4]

Hopefully Marshall won’t be played in centre mid on Friday 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

31 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

I'm of the same opinion, and so are all of the people I have spoken to this evening about the game. 

 

In the simplest of terms, Clarke made the same  mistake as every other Scotland manager of the last 25 years. Too cautious, not aware of his best team and completely fails to introduce youth talent at the correct stage. 

 

 

 

 

Spot on. Gilmour, Turnbull (those two probably only there because Ryan Jack and McLean are injured despite being better players), Hickey (injured but should have featured in a squad already), Gauld to name just four. All offer something different. All have been playing well at a good level. Gauld is maybe the one that would be a wild card but Ryan Christie has been in very poor form while Gauld has been flying. You have to pick people in form playing for winning teams.

 

But Ryan Christie cried on TV after qualifying so he can't be dropped. Marshall's the boogie woogie guy so he can't be dropped. Absurd management.

Edited June 14, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[RobNox]

26 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

I'm of the same opinion, and so are all of the people I have spoken to this evening about the game. 

 

In the simplest of terms, Clarke made the same  mistake as every other Scotland manager of the last 25 years. Too cautious, not aware of his best team and completely fails to introduce youth talent at the correct stage. 

 

 

I actually thought coming into the tournament that having the Czechs as our first opponent might be an advantage, the most realistic chance of getting off to a winning start and giving us a confidence boost.  Now I wonder if it would have been better having them in the final game.  We play cautiously against England and Croatia, might manage to sneak a point, even if not we might still have a chance if we beat the Czechs but have to throw caution to the wind. 

[jambopilms]

49 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Scotland played the same system that we saw last season with Hearts. Defenders making stupid moves that almost cost goals. Lots of backward passing and square balls and forwards incapable of scoring. The only difference being we had a decent goalkeeper in Craig. The second goal today was goalkeeping ineptitude at its worst.

Thought the same earlier. Can't score and give goals away. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Hopefully Marshall won’t be played in centre mid on Friday 

 

🤣

[maggieb]

1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Correct.

 

Lots wrong today, shite opposition and we made them look better.

 

Easiest game we are going to have and we took F all from it.

 

Can see us coming home with 1 point from a draw in the last game.

 

Dont want Gordon in goal for England game coz it's a 3 or 4 nil every day of the week.

This , let oor boy rest and watch that prick suffer , as much as I would love to see us win , I’d hate to see Craig having to suffer

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Correct.

 

Lots wrong today, shite opposition and we made them look better.

 

Easiest game we are going to have and we took F all from it.

 

Can see us coming home with 1 point from a draw in the last game.

 

Dont want Gordon in goal for England game coz it's a 3 or 4 nil every day of the week.

Even if it does end that way it would be a chance for him to counter the "Scottish Goalie" musical hall joke. He would certainly not lack chances to do so.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Wrong tactics, wrong team selection. 

 

Marshall seems to be escaping any blame for that goal. Embarrassing losing a goal from there. Entirely his fault. Celtic twat. 

[Jambof3tornado]

Just now, Gordon Ramsay said:

Wrong tactics, wrong team selection. 

 

Marshall seems to be escaping any blame for that goal. Embarrassing losing a goal from there. Entirely his fault. Celtic twat. 

Not entirely his fault but just 3 or 4 yards deeper and it doesn't happen.

[Boab]

9 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Correct.

 

Lots wrong today, shite opposition and we made them look better.

 

Easiest game we are going to have and we took F all from it.

 

Can see us coming home with 1 point from a draw in the last game.

 

Dont want Gordon in goal for England game coz it's a 3 or 4 nil every day of the week.

I can’t see us drawing with the Croats.

They will be far better than they were yesterday. Could be a very poor show from us in the next two games. 

[Harry Potter]

Just now, Boab said:

I can’t see us drawing with the Croats.

They will be far better than they were yesterday. Could be a very poor show from us in the next two games. 

its friday im worried about.

[Maroon Sailor]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

Just saw Clarke interviewed.  He was angry.  Attacked the interviewer.  I like that.  Far better than saying we'll take the positives from it.

 

Surprised people saying Marshall will keep his place.

 

Should be angry with himself.

 

He fecked up and should take the crap on the chin

[Francis Albert]

The excuse that Marshall was just following Clarke's orders is absurd. His position meant that any decent out ball to one of at least two players nearer or at least as near to the half way line would have sent someone through one on one with Marshall. The strike was a wonderful one but with that Marshall  position we were horribly exposed to a loss of possession all too possible given the standard of our players.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, sadj said:

Even at that a sweeper keeper does not need to be almost on the centre circle. Especially when the ball was coming toward their goal from 40yards. Insanity. Showed it in the first half when he came rushing out to the right to clear a ball for a throw that Robertson could have shepherded out. Hendry is an idiot , Marshall was a disgrace but the buck stops with Clarke whos starting lineup was basically “here guys we got in the door at the party , dinna worry if ya get spotted and thrown out lets just enjoy the 30seconds we are here and no worry about getting our hole” 

He was supposed to be that high according to Robertson 🤷🏾‍♂️. Hendry can’t really worry about three players behind with nobody to mark being in place. Farce of a goal all told. A bit like the one we lost to QoS where everyone does the wrong thing. 

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

its friday im worried about.

 

The tournament has gone for Scotland. This was the must not lose game and in true Scotland fashion ....

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Not entirely his fault but just 3 or 4 yards deeper and it doesn't happen.

So his fault. Nothing is ever entirely someone's fault but that came close enough.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

22 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

He is to me a younger version of Craig Brown.

 

Paul Lambert is a great example of how we never blood youngsters under these types of managers. Ignored completely when playing brilliantly for Motherwell in 95/96. Not in the squad for Euro 96. Less than a year later he's winning the European Cup with Dortmund. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

26 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Playing our best striker from the start could have helped there.

Not very often I agree with you but there’s one for the archives. 

[Boab]

We’re now 17/2 to win on Friday. 4/1 the draw.

Bookies ain’t daft !

[A_A wehatethehibs]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The excuse that Marshall was just following Clarke's orders is absurd. His position meant that any decent out ball to one of at least two players nearer or at least as near to the half way line would have sent someone through one on one with Marshall. The strike was a wonderful one but with that Marshall  position we were horribly exposed to a loss of possession all too possible given the standard of our players.

Not sure it’s an excuse for marshal, more a pop at Clarke tbh.
 

What’s he doing pushing a keeper up like that if it was the managers call? Whether it was Marshall or Clarke, Whoever’s responsibility that was, it was a blunder

[RobNox]

21 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, the same. That's the point. They stuck with the same players who mostly became too old at the same time, leaving Vogts with a massive rebuilding job. Vogts still did infinitely better than Clarke has done in terms of producing a team that could on their day beat top sides.

 

Brown's squad for France for example. It was Dad's Army. Don't think there was a single player under 25 in the entire squad. Just from Hearts there was no Colin Cameron, Gary Naysmith and Neil McCann (only capped after moving to Rangers). Tosh McKinlay only got capped after moving to Celtic.

Roxburgh and Brown got us to 4 out of 5 major finals in the 90s, we made 2 in the 80s, 2 in the 70s and none in the 60s.  However, I agree with you that they tended to stick with the old guard and once the key players from that era had gone, we had a lack of fresh talent with any great experience of international football.

 

I know Bertie got a bad press, but he blooded a lot of young players, many who didn't work out but others who went on to have decent international careers.  Unfortunately by then, we weren't exactly developing many world beaters, so decent was as good as it tended to be, and many other nations were producing far more technically superior players than us.  The changes in football laws probably didn't help us either, as skilful players became far more protected and we seemed to be behind the curve in prioritising technical skill over physicality.

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He was supposed to be that high according to Robertson 🤷🏾‍♂️. Hendry can’t really worry about three players behind with nobody to mark being in place. Farce of a goal all told. A bit like the one we lost to QoS where everyone does the wrong thing. 

No Hendry should have looked to play it wide , keep the pressure on them , no excuse imo. Robertson was being nice , Marshall was far too far forward and when the ball came across the pitch he should have been retreating. The Czech boy nearly took it off Hendrys toes and still Marahall didnt retreat. Not going to agree on this mate. The pair of them were shocking at that goal , O’Donnell at the first

[Kiwidoug]

Sad to say, the guy who does the sports news on the radio here had a good laugh at us.  Described Marshall as a fly blasting his way into the spiders web.  

[Francis Albert]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Not sure it’s an excuse for marshal, more a pop at Clarke tbh.
 

What’s he doing pushing a keeper up like that if it was the managers call? Whether it was Marshall or Clarke, Whoever’s responsibility that was, it was a blunder

Agreed if that was Clarke's instruction. But I would expect any intelligent and experienced player to take account of the circumstances. If the opposition were pinned back in or near their 18 yard line then it just might make sense. But they weren"t.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Not sure it’s an excuse for marshal, more a pop at Clarke tbh.
 

What’s he doing pushing a keeper up like that if it was the managers call? Whether it was Marshall or Clarke, Whoever’s responsibility that was, it was a blunder

I think we’ll find out on Friday.  If that’s Clark’s instructions then he’s not going to drop his keeper who had an otherwise good game.  If that’s all down to Marshall being far too high up the pitch then he may well find himself dropped as he’s probably struggling confidence wise now after the Austria game and getting dropped by Derby near the end of the season. 
 

As with the striker position, just play the man in form who also happens to be the better player, it’s not ****ing rocket science!

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Sad to say, the guy who does the sports news on the radio here had a good laugh at us.  Described Marshall as a fly blasting his way into the spiders web.  

Fair description to be fair.

[graygo]

28 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, the same. That's the point. They stuck with the same players who mostly became too old at the same time, leaving Vogts with a massive rebuilding job. Vogts still did infinitely better than Clarke has done in terms of producing a team that could on their day beat top sides.

 

Brown's squad for France for example. It was Dad's Army. Don't think there was a single player under 25 in the entire squad. Just from Hearts there was no Colin Cameron, Gary Naysmith and Neil McCann (only capped after moving to Rangers). Tosh McKinlay only got capped after moving to Celtic.

 

What top sides was Vogts infinitely better at beating? I can only think of a 1-0 win against the Netherlands which was followed up a few days later with a 6-0 thumping from the same team.

The national team should be picked on ability to get results not as a player development scheme.