*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[Cruyff]

11 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Let’s be honest here. A large part of the more excessive rage about Marshall is because we have a Hearts goalkeeper as No 2 and we’d rather he was number 1. Marshall had a decent game up until then and was the major factor amongst 3 contributors to a horrible avoidable goal. We conveniently forget that Craig Gordon himself was a contributor to us losing a horrible late goal to England not so long ago.

 

I think Gordon is marginally the better keeper but I seriously doubt Marshall will be dropped for the England game having been roundly defended by his captain, his manager and the entire media, not one of whom have blamed him for the goal and instead blamed a player who was 70 yards away from our goal having a shot goal when a pass wide might or might not have been a better option.

 

We need a much better effort against England. I thought overall today we didn’t really turn up and the occasion maybe got to us a bit.

 

Some changes needed and he needs to throw a bit of pace and adventure into the team now. Paterson Gilmour Turnbull Adams. I’d start all 4 of them and give it a real go. 
 

I think he’ll keep the same goalkeeper though.

That's a fair post.

 

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Your last sentence is the point. Gordon would not have survived that error.

I don’t think Gordon would have been that far up the park. He wouldn’t have lost that goal although that’s hypothetical of course.

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think Gordon would have been that far up the park. He wouldn’t have lost that goal although that’s hypothetical of course.

No chance he would've been standing there! None whatsoever.

 

Edit: Unless it was the 95th minute and we were losing.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Spellczech

[DalryJambo]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Let’s be honest here. A large part of the more excessive rage about Marshall is because we have a Hearts goalkeeper as No 2 and we’d rather he was number 1. Marshall had a decent game up until then and was the major factor amongst 3 contributors to a horrible avoidable goal. We conveniently forget that Craig Gordon himself was a contributor to us losing a horrible late goal to England not so long ago.

 

I think Gordon is marginally the better keeper but I seriously doubt Marshall will be dropped for the England game having been roundly defended by his captain, his manager and the entire media, not one of whom have blamed him for the goal and instead blamed a player who was 70 yards away from our goal having a shot goal when a pass wide might or might not have been a better option.

 

We need a much better effort against England. I thought overall today we didn’t really turn up and the occasion maybe got to us a bit.

 

Some changes needed and he needs to throw a bit of pace and adventure into the team now. Paterson Gilmour Turnbull Adams. I’d start all 4 of them and give it a real go. 
 

I think he’ll keep the same goalkeeper though.

I don't particularly blame the goalie. I'm assuming he was told to push up high as a keeper sweeper, he was marginally out of position, by about 10m, and using this tactic with a group of players who give the ball away a lot will eventually catch you out one way or another. It was a mistake but not worth being dropped. 

 

My rage turned, once again, to the setup of Scottish football and reflected upon the dominance of the old firm for nothing more than their own benefit, how we can possibly improve the quality of every Scottish footballer by about 5-10% and how this could ultimately elevate us to become a more competitive nation. 

[Clerry Jambo]

For those knocking the 2nd goal ffs it was a great goal. Dark blue jersey it would have been a worldly. Yes feck knows what Marshall was doing but let’s not knock the strike

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

I don't particularly blame the goalie. I'm assuming he was told to push up high as a keeper sweeper, he was marginally out of position, by about 10m, and using this tactic with a group of players who give the ball away a lot will eventually catch you out one way or another. It was a mistake but not worth being dropped. 

 

My rage turned, once again, to the setup of Scottish football and reflected upon the dominance of the old firm for nothing more than their own benefit, how we can possibly improve the quality of every Scottish footballer by about 5-10% and how this could ultimately elevate us to become a more competitive nation. 

Sorry mate but that first paragraph reads as total nonsense! 😈

[smiler]

1 minute ago, Clerry Jambo said:

For those knocking the 2nd goal ffs it was a great goal. Dark blue jersey it would have been a worldly. Yes feck knows what Marshall was doing but let’s not knock the strike

Spot on as usual Clerry. Not as easy as folk think to do what that lad did. Marshall should be getting his arse kicked for that, and so should the chump that ****ed up before him.

[smiler]

5 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

I don't particularly blame the goalie. I'm assuming he was told to push up high as a keeper sweeper, he was marginally out of position, by about 10m, and using this tactic with a group of players who give the ball away a lot will eventually catch you out one way or another. It was a mistake but not worth being dropped. 

 

My rage turned, once again, to the setup of Scottish football and reflected upon the dominance of the old firm for nothing more than their own benefit, how we can possibly improve the quality of every Scottish footballer by about 5-10% and how this could ultimately elevate us to become a more competitive nation. 

A sweeper keeper on the ****ing half way line? Eh naw.

[graygo]

34 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He had an impossible job but was willing to try to build a team for the future, unlike every other Scotland manager who seems happy with scraping into tournament finals then doing nothing while there. The xenophobia was there from day one. The press didn't even try to hide it. Exactly the same stuff we saw while Romanov was at Hearts.

 

I'm not arguing with you about the xenophobia, there was.

He decided to dish out caps like confetti, he refused to play a settled team and he never qualified for any tournament never mind doing nothing while there.

[DalryJambo]

2 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

For those knocking the 2nd goal ffs it was a great goal. Dark blue jersey it would have been a worldly. Yes feck knows what Marshall was doing but let’s not knock the strike

 

It was an amazing strike, outstanding skill, wonderful technique and only made possible by appalling positioning by Marshall.

 

If he'd done that with the goalie starting position onthe edge of the 18 yard box then hands up amazing. He was given the option to shot and took it. 

[DalryJambo]

2 minutes ago, smiler said:

A sweeper keeper on the ****ing half way line? Eh naw.

 

He wasn't on the halfway line.

 

By the way I'm not defending the goalie. He's definitely out of position, but I can only assume he's been told to stand that far up the pitch. 

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, smiler said:

Spot on as usual Clerry. Not as easy as folk think to do what that lad did. Marshall should be getting his arse kicked for that, and so should the chump that ****ed up before him.

For taking an ambitious shot at goal when we were toiling for an equaliser he’s a chump ? Wee football lesson here mate. When your playing 3 centre half’s against 1 striker, one of them can go forward and join in attacks and the other 2 are supposed to shut the door. Look at Hanley in the picture. He’s day dreaming and the boys just run off him unchallenged. Hanley is far more culpable for that goal than Hendry is. Hendry probably should have knocked it wide but it’s such an unlucky block to go where it did

[DalryJambo]

10 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Sorry mate but that first paragraph reads as total nonsense! 😈

 

Out of interest what part do you think is nonsense? Teams that play this tactic typically have lots of possession and don't expect to lose the ball that often to close to their half. We could lose the ball at any moment! 

Edited June 14, 2021 by DalryJambo

[Spellczech]

8 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

 

Out of interest what part do you think is nonsense? Teams that play this tactic typically have lots of possession and don't expect to lose the ball that often to close to their half. We could lose the ball at any moment! 

Well it just makes no sense...

 

"I don't particularly blame the goalie. I'm assuming he was told to push up high as a keeper sweeper, he was marginally out of position, by about 10m, and using this tactic with a group of players who give the ball away a lot will eventually catch you out one way or another. It was a mistake but not worth being dropped. "

 

- If he was told to be there it was not by a manager who know what a sweeper-keeper does. See my post earlier contrasting the Spanish GK doing it right...

 

- 10m is not "marginally" out of position on a 90m football pitch...It's the difference between casually tipping that shot over the bar and being humiliated.

 

- The next sentence makes perfect sense about us giving the ball away a lot and being caught out. Which is why he ought not to having been standing there at all.

 

- To me is was very poor goalkeeping at Championship level. At International Level it was plain embarrassing...He deserves the memes and if his confidence is not shot, it should be...

Edited June 14, 2021 by Spellczech

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t think Gordon would have been that far up the park. He wouldn’t have lost that goal although that’s hypothetical of course.

The point was if Gordon had lost that goal would he have been in the next game.

[smiler]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

For taking an ambitious shot at goal when we were toiling for an equaliser he’s a chump ? Wee football lesson here mate. When your playing 3 centre half’s against 1 striker, one of them can go forward and join in attacks and the other 2 are supposed to shut the door. Look at Hanley in the picture. He’s day dreaming and the boys just run off him unchallenged. Hanley is far more culpable for that goal than Hendry is. Hendry probably should have knocked it wide but it’s such an unlucky block to go where it did

I’ve only seen that particular balls up once, I’ll watch again tomorrow. I recall at the start of the game, I think O’Donnell, a professional footballer, forgot to control the ball, then the two lads banging into each other, then the **** up for their 2nd. It was like amateur hour. Not one other team in this tournament would make these errors.

[smiler]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

The point was if Gordon had lost that goal would he have been in the next game.

Probably not. You never know, Clarke might surprise us and make a change. I honestly thought Gordon would be picked today. You should be picked on form, not blind loyalty.

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The point was if Gordon had lost that goal would he have been in the next game.

I don’t know. It’s hypothetical. You can arrive at your own conclusion in a hypothetical.

[Pasquale for King]

40 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

For those knocking the 2nd goal ffs it was a great goal. Dark blue jersey it would have been a worldly. Yes feck knows what Marshall was doing but let’s not knock the strike

Goal of the tournament probably, had to be against us. I would imagine Kane will be practising those for the next few days. 

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, smiler said:

I’ve only seen that particular balls up once, I’ll watch again tomorrow. I recall at the start of the game, I think O’Donnell, a professional footballer, forgot to control the ball, then the two lads banging into each other, then the **** up for their 2nd. It was like amateur hour. Not one other team in this tournament would make these errors.

What O’Donnell thought he was doing when anyone who knows Christie is aware he was likely to cut into his left and shoot is anyone’s guess. He then had the temerity to blame Christie, who got subbed when O’Donnell/Armstrong/McGinn and Dykes had been far worse. 

[Pasquale for King]

😆. 

[graygo]

28 minutes ago, smiler said:

Probably not. You never know, Clarke might surprise us and make a change. I honestly thought Gordon would be picked today. You should be picked on form, not blind loyalty.

 

It's not blind loyalty, it's plain loyalty. Managers all over show it to their players, in some cases they get that loyalty back. Marshall had done nothing to deserve not to play against the Czechs. Pretty sure he'll be back on Friday too 

[Kiwidoug]

They all laughed at our Craige when he was the national manager.  Made him a subject of ridicule.  Well, whose having the last laugh now.  No way would his formation of 10 defenders and a goalie have conceded that.

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It's not blind loyalty, it's plain loyalty. Managers all over show it to their players, in some cases they get that loyalty back. Marshall had done nothing to deserve not to play against the Czechs. Pretty sure he'll be back on Friday too 

What have you got against Craig Gordon?  If you think he's average or below average just say so.

 

For my part, I don't think he would have conceded either of these goals but we'll never know.  I will however nail my colours to the mast by saying that he's an extremely good goalkeeper.

[Arthur Morgan]

6 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

What have you got against Craig Gordon?  If you think he's average or below average just say so.

 

For my part, I don't think he would have conceded either of these goals but we'll never know.  I will however nail my colours to the mast by saying that he's an extremely good goalkeeper.

 

He's better than Marshall that's for sure, always has been.

[Kiwidoug]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Morgan said:

 

He's better than Marshall that's for sure, always has been.

It seems that not everyone agrees though.  For my part, and I know how petty this is, if Gordon doesn't start on Friday, I'm not watching.  I think that will have been a dreadful selection and it will cause me to completely revise my opinion of Clarke.  I take no pleasure in saying that Marshall and Scotland are a laughing stock today, 12,000 miles.

[Pasquale for King]

Look at his deep he is here after an identical attack in their half,  completely different 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

[graygo]

48 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

What have you got against Craig Gordon?  If you think he's average or below average just say so.

 

For my part, I don't think he would have conceded either of these goals but we'll never know.  I will however nail my colours to the mast by saying that he's an extremely good goalkeeper.

 

Ok I'll humour you.

 

I've nothing against Craig Gordon.

I don't think he's average or below average.

You're right, you've no idea whether he would save either of those goals.

You're also right that he's an extremely good goalkeeper, he's Scotland's number 2 keeper.

[graygo]

40 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

It seems that not everyone agrees though.  For my part, and I know how petty this is, if Gordon doesn't start on Friday, I'm not watching.  I think that will have been a dreadful selection and it will cause me to completely revise my opinion of Clarke.  I take no pleasure in saying that Marshall and Scotland are a laughing stock today, 12,000 miles.

 

[Kiwidoug]

7 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Ok I'll humour you.

 

I've nothing against Craig Gordon.

I don't think he's average or below average.

You're right, you've no idea whether he would save either of those goals.

You're also right that he's an extremely good goalkeeper, he's Scotland's number 2 keeper.

Call that humour? Ahm no' laughin'.

[Kiwidoug]

Just watched the 1st half.  While I accept that the ref knows the rules far better than me, when McTominay charged into the the box just before half time and was blocked, it looked like a stick-on penalty to me.

[No Idle Talk]

Pretty disgusted that Craigy was left on the bench. It was some finish by the Czech boy for their second goal but I am one of those who thinks Craigy doesn't let that in.

[Kiwidoug]

On another day Scotland would have had a couple of goals.  On the other hand the Czechs didn't have to expand a lot of energy for the last 30 minutes or so.  Overall they were better than us despite us having home advantage.

 

Our subs made a big difference and that persuades me even more that his team selection was poor.

 

Pretty much all of us know he got the goalkeeper badly wrong and he was very unlucky with Tierney.

 

That team and that strategy simply wasn't good enough.

 

Robertson was immense.

[DETTY29]

We are biased towards Gordon naturally but remember Clarke dropped Marshall for Gordon not that long ago.

 

Riddy Forsyth told 5L listeners on Sunday their would be an outcry if Marshall wasn't picked due 'that' penalty save.

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

We are biased towards Gordon naturally but remember Clarke dropped Marshall for Gordon not that long ago.

 

Riddy Forsyth told 5L listeners on Sunday their would be an outcry if Marshall wasn't picked due 'that' penalty save.

 

 

 

And therein lies the problem. That save has been fish and chip paper for a year. Marshall has been pish and shit for a year.

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

And therein lies the problem. That save has been fish and chip paper for a year. Marshall has been pish and shit for a year.

👍

 

Will knick that.

[edramone]

Let's hope the national team take the disappointment to get angry and take it out on the Auld Enemy

[StirlingJambo]

Team selection was shocking. Would have had either of the other two goalies instead of Marshall. There’s a reason he was dropped for Derby in the relegation run in. O’Donnell is absolute dug meat and is 100% the weakest link in the whole squad. Paterson should start in front of him all day. Would have put Gilmour for Armstrong and pushed mcginn up into attacking mid. Che Adams for Christie as well. Apart from the odd cracking goal he brings nothing to the table.

[Kiwidoug]

6 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It's not blind loyalty, it's plain loyalty. Managers all over show it to their players, in some cases they get that loyalty back. Marshall had done nothing to deserve not to play against the Czechs. Pretty sure he'll be back on Friday too 

That goal and that goalkeeper have featured all day here on the main news as well as the sports news.  The goalkeeper is being portrayed as a figure of fun and pity.  These broadcasters will be astounded if he ever plays again, never mind on Friday.

 

You, of course are fully entitled to your opinion and I certainly wouldn't dream of humoring you.

[Malinga the Swinga]

7 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It's not blind loyalty, it's plain loyalty. Managers all over show it to their players, in some cases they get that loyalty back. Marshall had done nothing to deserve not to play against the Czechs. Pretty sure he'll be back on Friday too 

Apart from throwing on goals against Israel and Austria. He has now thrown in goals in last 3 competitive games. It's like starting 1-0 down, but don't worry, he saved a penalty months ago.

When does that stop to be the only factor?

[portobellojambo1]

7 hours ago, Clerry Jambo said:

For those knocking the 2nd goal ffs it was a great goal. Dark blue jersey it would have been a worldly. Yes feck knows what Marshall was doing but let’s not knock the strike

I've not read through the thread but I wouldn't imagine anyone is knocking what the Czech player did in terms of scoring the goal, he hit it perfectly and deserved the reward he got. But truth is he was only given the opportunity to score due to the positioning of our goalkeeper.

 

When watching it live on TV my initial thought was why is he trying a shot from so far out, but it was only when you seen the replay from behind the goa that it became apparent just how far out of his own penalty area Marshall was. There was no need, never any need for a goalkeeper to be standing a few yards short of the halfway line, there are 10 outfield players, and scope to place even just one around that area if needed.

 

If that shot hadn't went in we'll never know how the game would have finished results wise, indeed after the goal Marshall stopped 3 attempts which could have created a final score of 0-5. To me things were determined right from the second the team was announced, in a game which, if we are honest, must have looked the most likely that we could win, and if we had it would have meant only 1 point would have been needed from the remaining two games.

 

When you see the side anounced has 5 defensive players, no wingers and only one striker it becomes obvious from outset the options available to actually create and score goals and win have been reduced massively, and that was the way it panned out. Our only hope now is that the Czech Republic can defeat Croatia, and create a situation where the final game at Hampden between Scotland and Croatia becomes a play off for third place in the group.

[Harry Potter]

10 hours ago, Boab said:

We’re now 17/2 to win on Friday. 4/1 the draw.

Bookies ain’t daft !

park the bus lol

[ToadKiller Dog]

12 hours ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

That'll be the Roxburgh and Brown who regularly qualified for major tournaments and Vogts who didn't.

You mean the Vogts who won euro 96 ,runner up in 92 and two world Cup quater finals ( maybe not fully successful for a German national managers expectations ).

 

He took over a scotland team that was done and left to rot by pa broon.

Vogts faced a lot of xenophobic shit from the scottish sports media, the same thing we got a lot of towards our Lithuanian players more so Miko .

Edited June 15, 2021 by ToadKiller Dog

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Apart from throwing on goals against Israel and Austria. He has now thrown in goals in last 3 competitive games. It's like starting 1-0 down, but don't worry, he saved a penalty months ago.

When does that stop to be the only factor?

 

I've not mentioned the penalty save once, Marshall would have played yesterday regardless of that. 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

You mean the Vogts who won euro 96 ,runner up in 92 and two world Cup quater finals ( maybe not fully successful for a German national managers expectations ).

Vogts faced a lot of xenophobic shit from the scottish sports media, the same thing we got a lot of towards our Lithuanian players more so Miko .

 

Aye that Vogts, the one who was absolute dugshite with Scotland.

I've already acknowledged the xenophobia.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

I've not mentioned the penalty save once, Marshall would have played yesterday regardless of that. 

Why? He has gifted opposition goals in previous games that have caused us to drop 4 points in world cup qualification games. He has been dropped by club.

Is Marshall now the keeper as long as SC is manager, regardless of form? 

If so, no point in Gordon and McLaughlin being there and would be as well bringing in younger keeper for future experience so when Marshall quits, he can step in 

It's stubborn blind loyalty to a player who should really be sitting at home watching games on TV like the rest of us. 

Doesn't matter if he plays on Friday or not, the damage is done after that display yesterday.

As soon as we beat Serbia, the manager and his staff have relaxed and coasted along. Since then, we have lost 2 Nations league matches, when victory in just one would have got us promotion and a world cup play off place and then we have failed to win first two world cup qualifiers, with only one win over minnows in group.

Marshall has contributed in all but one of these displays.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Now that the dust has settled

 

So…. This is how it feels to be a Hibs fan. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Team v England

 

                 Gordon

 

      Hendry Cooper Tiernay 

 

Forrest                         Robertson

 

               McTominay

 

     McGinn              Armstrong 

 

         Evans         Fraser

[Haken]

16 hours ago, dtgj said:

Disappointing score. Had the chances to draw if not win the game though. Looked a better team when Adams came on. Jack Hendry should never have had a shot and some poor positioning from Marshall. Wasn't too impressed with McTomminy either. 

 

But saw nothing in the England Vs Croatia game to sugges getting 6 points in the next 2 games is impossible.

[The Old Tolbooth]

If the manager would play his best players instead of his best pals, then we'd have a chance, that said, we missed a load of chances as well, probably because Dykes is completely over rated, and it beggared belief that he started before Adams, if they were both at Southampton, who do you think would start and who would be on the bench? Madness!