*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[NLTFTh]

Marshall found out... 

 

 

That is all... 

 

Saved a penalty and thought he was Buffon... 

Sit down, lol

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Hopefully Marshall won’t be played in centre mid on Friday 

😆👍🏽👏🏾

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, sadj said:

No Hendry should have looked to play it wide , keep the pressure on them , no excuse imo. Robertson was being nice , Marshall was far too far forward and when the ball came across the pitch he should have been retreating. The Czech boy nearly took it off Hendrys toes and still Marahall didnt retreat. Not going to agree on this mate. The pair of them were shocking at that goal , O’Donnell at the first

That’s the tactics apparently, Hanley and Cooper slow to get over too. Hard to blame Hendry for not trusting O’Donnell but in hindsight he should’ve gave him the ball. 
Can’t believe I got caught up in the hype again 🙈.  

[Kiwidoug]

38 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Yep- At this level you need quality, players who are comfortable on the ball, can take the ball in tight areas. You need players on form, you need a threat. We did none of this. 
 

Gilmour, Adams, Paterson, Turnbull and Fraser are all better than players who started or came on.

 

Very very poor management, repeated every mistake made by his predecessors .. 

 

have to stick with the players who got us there - no you don’t when they aren’t on form or in the case of O’Donnell - not good enough

 

 

One of the best posts on this thread.  While I'm the first to admit I'm not overly familiar with some of those players, when I first saw our line up though I was seriously underwhelmed.  No Fraser, no Gordon and no Turnbull in particular.  Biggest shock of course was no Tierney until that was explained.

 

I'm still going to believe that if he's got Tierney back and gets his selection right we can have a good go at England.

[jambopilms]

I don't think I have ever seen a keeper that high up the park unless in the last two mins.

A few folk have said it's what's expected nowadays and it's bollox. That said when Hendry steps forward the other two CB should push across and they don't, they were far to high. School boy defending that we seen under Stendel.

[sadj]

34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed if that was Clarke's instruction. But I would expect any intelligent and experienced player to take account of the circumstances. If the opposition were pinned back in or near their 18 yard line then it just might make sense. But they weren"t.

Far to sensible FA

[RobNox]

We've got some experienced players who play at a fairly high level (i.e. top half Premier League, Champions League).  We've got other experienced players who have basically plateaued at a lower level (lower Premier League, Championship or SPL).  We have some young players who have talent and show great potential, whether in England or the SPL.

 

I would far rather blood those young players, who could go on to become top players in time, than players who have peaked at a level of comparative mediocrity in international terms.  A lot is said about young players being inconsistent, but it's also said that young players don't show the same fear as older guys who know their limitations.

 

I'd really like to see a Scotland manager who is prepared to give youth a much bigger chance.  Build the core of the team around the best quality experienced players we have, including some who aren't playing at the highest level, but are solid and reliable in their position, and round that of with the best emerging talent, players who have the potential to go on to great things.  They won't all work out, but I'd far rather field a player who could potentially become great, than one who never has and never will.

 

 

[Brave Hearts]

a picture paints a thousand words .......

 

 

 

[OldGorgie]

Marshall effed up, plain to see. 

[Uncle Buck]

Amateur goalkeeping.

[JamboGraham]

57 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The tournament has gone for Scotland. This was the must not lose game and in true Scotland fashion ....

 

Agreed sadly...our chance was today. At least we can all relax now and join the squad in just being happy to be part of it all...

[Guest ToqueJambo]

56 minutes ago, RobNox said:

Roxburgh and Brown got us to 4 out of 5 major finals in the 90s, we made 2 in the 80s, 2 in the 70s and none in the 60s.  However, I agree with you that they tended to stick with the old guard and once the key players from that era had gone, we had a lack of fresh talent with any great experience of international football.

 

I know Bertie got a bad press, but he blooded a lot of young players, many who didn't work out but others who went on to have decent international careers.  Unfortunately by then, we weren't exactly developing many world beaters, so decent was as good as it tended to be, and many other nations were producing far more technically superior players than us.  The changes in football laws probably didn't help us either, as skilful players became far more protected and we seemed to be behind the curve in prioritising technical skill over physicality.

 

 

One of the most technically gifted players we had during the Craig Brown days was Paul Lambert. Completely overlooked for Euro 96 and won the European cup a year later. Paul Ritchie was great for us that season. Instead 30 year old Derek White was CB back-up. Ritchie didn't get capped until he was 24. Allan Johnston was ripping up the league that season. Not capped until 2 or 3 years later age 25. Instead at Euro 96 we had 30 year old Kevin Gallacher who had been injured most of that season as the only real winger in the squad. We never seem willing to take a chance on good young players unless they are at the top clubs.

Edited June 14, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[jambopilms]

I can see England resting a few after seeing that.

[Jambo92]

Don't understand what we had to gain from having Marshall that high up, literally was cms from our central defenders.  If that was Pickford for England it would be world war 3 down there.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

55 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

What top sides was Vogts infinitely better at beating? I can only think of a 1-0 win against the Netherlands which was followed up a few days later with a 6-0 thumping from the same team.

The national team should be picked on ability to get results not as a player development scheme.

 

 

Yes, the Netherlands in a big game. Drew with Germany then narrowly beaten by Germany in qualifying. Clarke has got nowhere near any of those results or performances with a better squad. The way Vogts was treated was a disgrace. The xenophobia of our press in full cry.

 

The national team should be picked on ability and yes we should be developing players for the national team.

Edited June 14, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed if that was Clarke's instruction. But I would expect any intelligent and experienced player to take account of the circumstances. If the opposition were pinned back in or near their 18 yard line then it just might make sense. But they weren"t.

If that was Clarke's instruction then we need him gone before the England game. The Spanish GK showed exactly how to do it with 5 mins left. Spain were pressing, a ball came over the Spanish defenders who were in same positions as Scottish defenders and the Spanish GK moved forward to exactly where Marshall was standing, knocked the ball to one of his defenders and immediately backtracked again. If Marshall had been 10 yards further back he would've run back tipped the shot over the bar and been able to wink at his defenders as they set up to receive the resulting corner. It was amateurish error from a player who has never really been better than an international 3rd choice...

[JamboGraham]

16 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

a picture paints a thousand words .......

 

 

I manage to get a little angrier each time I see this image...i just don’t get any of the chat about wonder goal, etc...it’s a free strike at an empty goal from halfway for a professional! He just had to get it on target, it would have been poor if he had missed.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

If that was Clarke's instruction then we need him gone before the England game. The Spanish GK showed exactly how to do it with 5 mins left. Spain were pressing, a ball came over the Spanish defenders who were in same positions as Scottish defenders and the Spanish GK moved forward to exactly where Marshall was standing, knocked the ball to one of his defenders and immediately backtracked again. If Marshall had been 10 yards further back he would've run back tipped the shot over the bar and been able to wink at his defenders as they set up to receive the resulting corner. It was amateurish error from a player who has never really been better than an international 3rd choice...

 

 

Exactly. You don't hang around that far up just in case the ball comes your way. You have more than enough time to see a ball coming over and advance if needed.

[Morgan]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Aye, as usual. But you keep over rating that shite in the white. 

 

48 wins for England to 41 for Scotland. Not bad for a country 10 times smaller. 

Quick edit, ri.  👍

 

 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

30 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

a picture paints a thousand words .......

 

 

 

 

 

That's an embarrassment. It's 2 vs 2 at worst if Marshall is in the proper position.

[RobNox]

2 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

I manage to get a little angrier each time I see this image...i just don’t get any of the chat about wonder goal, etc...it’s a free strike at an empty goal from halfway for a professional! He just had to get it on target, it would have been poor if he had missed.

I agree.  Comparisons with Charlie Adam's goal against Chelsea, or Beckham's against WImbledon aren't valid.  In both of those cases, the goalie was around the edge of the penalty area and the player had to hit the ball perfectly to get the height to take it over the keeper, but not high enough that it went over the bar.  In today's game, the player is essentially shooting into an empty goal, the keeper is nowhere near the penalty area and the player doesn't need to get anywhere near the same precision on his shot.  Just clear the keeper, who is still 30 yards out, and the ball could have bounced in the penalty area and still gone in.

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

I manage to get a little angrier each time I see this image...i just don’t get any of the chat about wonder goal, etc...it’s a free strike at an empty goal from halfway for a professional! He just had to get it on target, it would have been poor if he had missed.

It is bizarre. Two Czech players are on the half way line well ahead of any outfield Scottish player. Another Czech is in the mix with the two other nearest Scots. We were horribly exposed even without the strike which as you say was hardly a miracle.

 

[Morgan]

11 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

I manage to get a little angrier each time I see this image...i just don’t get any of the chat about wonder goal, etc...it’s a free strike at an empty goal from halfway for a professional! He just had to get it on target, it would have been poor if he had missed.

Correct.

 

A disgrace and an embarrassment.  

 

If he starts at Wembley, that is a further disgrace.

 

 

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, the Netherlands in a big game. Drew with Germany then narrowly beaten by Germany in qualifying. Clarke has got nowhere near any of those results or performances with a better squad. The way Vogts was treated was a disgrace. The xenophobia of our press in full cry.

 

The national team should be picked on ability and yes we should be developing players for the national team.

 

Xenophobia and only 9 wins from 32 games including the might of Hong Kong, Estonia, The Faroes and Trinidad and Tobago.

[Fozzyonthefence]

13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, the Netherlands in a big game. Drew with Germany then narrowly beaten by Germany in qualifying. Clarke has got nowhere near any of those results or performances with a better squad. The way Vogts was treated was a disgrace. The xenophobia of our press in full cry.

 

The national team should be picked on ability and yes we should be developing players for the national team.

If Clark was to lose 6-0 to the Netherlands and draw with the Faroes I suspect he’d quite rightly be looking for new employment.  The heaviest defeat I can ever remember for a Scotland team against a Dutch team that many of their fans had given up on, on top of probably our most embarrassing result in our history at that time. 

[Beni]

Marshall was so unpopular with his teammates they made him take the train home.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Xenophobia and only 9 wins from 32 games including the might of Hong Kong, Estonia, The Faroes and Trinidad and Tobago.

Yep, Vogts without doubt inherited a shit show from Brown and had a difficult job to rebuild but he was unquestionably a failure.  

[Kiwidoug]

JamboGraham has got this exactly right.  On reflection, pretty sure I would have scored it and I'm hopeless.  In fact, if he'd missed it it would probably have been ridiculed and dropped.

 

Now that we've digested yet another disappointment we can start bracing ourselves for the next one.

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

Marshall was so unpopular with his teammates they made him take the train home.

 

😜

 

And that was before today.

[JimmyCant]

49 minutes ago, Brave Hearts said:

a picture paints a thousand words .......

 

 

 

2 centre backs marking fresh air, two attackers left in yards of space. Surely to F if you play 3 centre backs and 1 goes, the other 2 shift across.

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If Clark was to lose 6-0 to the Netherlands and draw with the Faroes I suspect he’d quite rightly be looking for new employment.  The heaviest defeat I can ever remember for a Scotland team against a Dutch team that many of their fans had given up on, on top of probably our most embarrassing result in our history at that time. 

Not sure why we are discussing Berti Vogts but he really had next to nothing to work with - He was having to give caps to virtually anyone with a Scottish granny in the second league of England and some of them preferred to play for the countries of their Irish granny instead...The OF were chock-full of non-Scots, and the best Scottish based players were playing for their reserves...(Was big Dunc and his war with the SFA not around this time too?).TBF the Press rightly identified that a Scottish manager would find it easier to get Anglos or ANYONE to play for Scotland than a German, but they did make their point somewhat xenophobically.

[smiler]

12 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Correct.

 

A disgrace and an embarrassment.  

 

If he starts at Wembley, that is a further disgrace.

 

 

He likely will start him at Wembley unfortunately. He’s his no.1 and he has to show loyalty, apparently, as he “got us there”.

Bollocks.

[Morgan]

3 minutes ago, smiler said:

He likely will start him at Wembley unfortunately. He’s his no.1 and he has to show loyalty, apparently, as he “got us there”.

Bollocks.

I agree, Smiley.

 

There’s ‘loyalty’ and there is downright stupidity. 

 

 

[Spellczech]

31 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

I manage to get a little angrier each time I see this image...i just don’t get any of the chat about wonder goal, etc...it’s a free strike at an empty goal from halfway for a professional! He just had to get it on target, it would have been poor if he had missed.

You're right of course - he could've hit it at a much lower trajectory and beaten Marshall into the net by a couple of seconds. Looping it like that was total showboating IMHO!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Awbdy Oot said:

 

Xenophobia and only 9 wins from 32 games including the might of Hong Kong, Estonia, The Faroes and Trinidad and Tobago.

 

He had an impossible job but was willing to try to build a team for the future, unlike every other Scotland manager who seems happy with scraping into tournament finals then doing nothing while there. The xenophobia was there from day one. The press didn't even try to hide it. Exactly the same stuff we saw while Romanov was at Hearts.

[smiler]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

You're right of course - he could've hit it at a much lower trajectory and beaten Marshall into the net by a couple of seconds. Looping it like that was total showboating IMHO!

If only he’d despatched it on an upward projectory we might have nicked a point. Ah well.

[Spellczech]

Just now, smiler said:

If only he’d despatched it on an upward projectory we might have nicked a point. Ah well.

An upward projectory would've been a 3-pointer! Yikes!

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

So his fault. Nothing is ever entirely someone's fault but that came close enough.

By not entirely I mean we shouldnt have lost the ball where we did, ridiculous choice to take a shot on when a player was overlapping. 

[Cade]

Vogts identified the problem (namely that Brown had played the same ancient players for years then they all retired leaving us with nothing) and at least tried to do something about it.

 

He blooded lots of new players, trying different things out and trying to break us out of the "good old boys" mentality that had brought Scottish football to a grinding halt.

 

He was oot on his ear. Then we went right back to an OF manager picking OF players and we went right back into stasis.

 

 

[smiler]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

An upward projectory would've been a 3-pointer! Yikes!

😀

[Ex member of the SaS]

I can see it now, Gordon get the England game, we get beat and the media vilify Gordon and make him the scapegoat and the reason we get no further. I find it very hard to understand how none of the pundits mentioned how far out of position he was and that he ruined our chances of getting a draw or the win. Very hard to come back after such a howler.

[colinmaroon]

1 hour ago, Brave Hearts said:

a picture paints a thousand words .......

 

 

 

 

And that's him on the way back.

 

Dreadful stuff!

[DalryJambo]

3 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Why are the Media protecting Marshall like they are? Seaman got ruined when he did the same thing

 

I'm asking myself the same thing... Clarke being protected as well. I don't think we should be even remotely considering a change of manager, even if we lose our next two games, but there needs to be a slightly stronger discussion around how the 2nd goal came about in regards to the position of the goalie. 

 

If that was a English keeper we'd be pissing ourselves laughing. 

 

For me our 'golden generation' is frightfully short in quality compared to the majority of smaller nations at the Euros. 

 

In the comantry it sounded like the Czech Republic had multiple players in top teams in the top leagues..most of our team are playing in Scotland or the Championship of England. They are a bang average team and have beaten us 2-0.

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

By not entirely I mean we shouldnt have lost the ball where we did, ridiculous choice to take a shot on when a player was overlapping. 

Fair enough. But a keeper taking that position surely should have been aware that someone might have lost the ball. 

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, colinmaroon said:

 

And that's him on the way back.

 

Dreadful stuff!

Quite

 How far was he up before he reacted and turned back?

 

[JimmyCant]

Let’s be honest here. A large part of the more excessive rage about Marshall is because we have a Hearts goalkeeper as No 2 and we’d rather he was number 1. Marshall had a decent game up until then and was the major factor amongst 3 contributors to a horrible avoidable goal. We conveniently forget that Craig Gordon himself was a contributor to us losing a horrible late goal to England not so long ago.

 

I think Gordon is marginally the better keeper but I seriously doubt Marshall will be dropped for the England game having been roundly defended by his captain, his manager and the entire media, not one of whom have blamed him for the goal and instead blamed a player who was 70 yards away from our goal having a shot goal when a pass wide might or might not have been a better option.

 

We need a much better effort against England. I thought overall today we didn’t really turn up and the occasion maybe got to us a bit.

 

Some changes needed and he needs to throw a bit of pace and adventure into the team now. Paterson Gilmour Turnbull Adams. I’d start all 4 of them and give it a real go. 
 

I think he’ll keep the same goalkeeper though.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Just read Clark in the Scotsman and he is trying to claim scoring into an empty net is a great strike. Team selection seemed poor from the start and to defend a keeper being in the center circle shows he is either furious at him behind the scenes and won't say so in public or has lost the plot and needs to resign.

[Spellczech]

13 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

By not entirely I mean we shouldnt have lost the ball where we did, ridiculous choice to take a shot on when a player was overlapping. 

TBF to Hendry, he's watched the players in front of him miss quite a few chances, and minutes ago come closest to scoring himself. He had a rush of blood to the head and saw the headlines before they were written...It was a naive error but we have to remember that he's not really ready for international football himself - I mean look at his experience so far...being on Celtic's books and loaned back to Dundee after being rubbish for Celtic then a good season in Belgium? (AFAIK...and I know nothing about the Belgian league, but do Belgium have many players who play in Belgium?). He made an error, but if Marshall had been 10 yards further back it probably wouldn't have mattered

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Let’s be honest here. A large part of the more excessive rage about Marshall is because we have a Hearts goalkeeper as No 2 and we’d rather he was number 1. Marshall had a decent game up until then and was the major factor amongst 3 contributors to a horrible avoidable goal. We conveniently forget that Craig Gordon himself was a contributor to us losing a horrible late goal to England not so long ago.

 

I think Gordon is marginally the better keeper but I seriously doubt Marshall will be dropped for the England game having been roundly defended by his captain, his manager and the entire media, not one of whom have blamed him for the goal and instead blamed a player who was 70 yards away from our goal having a shot goal when a pass wide might or might not have been a better option.

 

We need a much better effort against England. I thought overall today we didn’t really turn up and the occasion maybe got to us a bit.

 

Some changes needed and he needs to throw a bit of pace and adventure into the team now. Paterson Gilmour Turnbull Adams. I’d start all 4 of them and give it a real go. 
 

I think he’ll keep the same goalkeeper though.

Your last sentence is the point. Gordon would not have survived that error.

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Just read Clark in the Scotsman and he is trying to claim scoring into an empty net is a great strike. Team selection seemed poor from the start and to defend a keeper being in the center circle shows he is either furious at him behind the scenes and won't say so in public or has lost the plot and needs to resign.

To hit a moving ball just under the bar from 50 yards is a combination of great technique and a bit of luck. He could probably hit that same shot another 10 times and not get the technique or the luck good enough to score. For a must win game though I agree, it was a poor team selection with zero pace and zero creativity in it. Add that to some anonymous performances from our big players like McGinn and Armstrong and MCTominay.